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[mugurumakensei]

So much this. Here in Ohio Hillary put out an ad. She literally says that there is institutionalized racism in the judicial system. Bernie has been one note for so long that I think it might be too late for him to diversify his talking points in time to appeal to minorities before primary season is over.

She should definitely know there's institutionalized racism since she pushed for and voted for several of the policies that resulted in the expansion of mass incarceration of African-American males. Indeed, she has been supportive of Rahm Emanuel, and he has been very vocal about his support of her.

 

[v0yce]

It's just incredibly frustrating that Sanders supporters have this image of him as being always truthful when he is not. He is more a regular politician than any of them seem to think. Which is not surprising since he has been a politician for decades.

I voted for Sanders but yes, this is the most obnoxious thing about his more outspoken supporters. They've made up a man that doesn't exist.

 

[Days like these...]

Holy shit man. It's no wonder Sanders has no minority support with posts like that.


/



Eh... just be careful with using age as an attack or criticism this election.

This Latino supports Bernie and so do many others.

 

[royalan]

She should definitely know there's institutionalized racism since she pushed for and voted for several of the policies that resulted in the expansion of mass incarceration of African-American males. Indeed, she has been supportive of Rahm Emanuel, and he has been very vocal about his support of her.

Correction: she didn't vote for them, because as First Lady she didn't actually have a vote.

Bernie Sanders voted in favor of those crime laws, though.

 

[Ekai]

Holy shit man. It's no wonder Sanders has no minority support with posts like that.

I am expressing a fact of the matter regarding how you and royalan and many in PoliGaf and in other places online and to my fucking face have done. You exploit minorities and essentially tell us to "get in line" if we prefer Bernie over Hillary. I am getting really damn tired of attacks from some Hillary supporters who have shown me they could give two shits about my existence or views. I will still vote for her if she gets the nom. but I have had very little of any positive experience with her supporters. And you two sure are contributing to that negativity.

I am continuing to tell you facts regarding DADT (Hillary supported, Bernie opposed. This is a fact. the speech he gave is there. her vote is there. please don't revise LGBT history just because you refuse to admit Hillary has any faults) and the auto-bailout (it was a Wallstreet- Bailout) and you continue to not acknowledge that your claims against me are outright wrong. You just don't want to acknowledge my criticism and instead have done NOTHING but continue to belittle me. That's literally all you've and royalan have done. Especialy in regards to DADT. Royalan acting like DADT doesn't even exist? Are you serious? What kind of cognitive dissonance/honesty can you have to know the facts and actively act like they don't exist? If it's because you know the facts and know admitting to them would break your argument then this is just childish purist argumentation from you two in defense of Hillary when the facts contradict your arguments.

 

[Suikoguy]

This Latino supports Bernie and so do many others.

That's a semantics argument. No support = Little Support. I did not mean literally no support.

Correction: she didn't vote for them, because as First Lady she didn't actually have a vote.

Bernie Sanders voted in favor of those crime laws, though.

Shhh. No bringing more facts into these arguments, we must argue on feelings and how truthful we feel a candidate is!
His vote for mirrored public sentiment, as the situation was considerably different at the time than it is now. Very unfortunately the legislation has bad side effects, that no effort went into until very recently to fix.

 

[eBay Huckster]

not all men support the sanders campaign

 

[Days like these...]

That's a semantics argument. No support = Little Support. I did not mean literally no support.

I think young Latinos support Bernie more than Hillary

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Or the one who said if you didn't believe she was the best person for the job then you're a misogynist.

I had a dustup with a Hillary supporter who claimed that anybody who supported Bernie over Hillary was probably a Gamergater.

Yeah.

 

[TheOohChild]

That's a semantics argument. No support = Little Support. I did not mean literally no support.



Shhh. No bringing more facts into these arguments, we must argue on feelings and how truthful we feel a candidate is!
His vote for mirrored public sentiment, as the situation was considerably different at the time than it is now. Very unfortunately the legislation has bad side effects, that no effort went into until very recently to fix.

The irony of ignoring facts and then misrepresenting his support of the crime bill.

 

[Real Hero]

I had a dustup with a Hillary supporter who claimed that anybody who supported Bernie over Hillary was probably a Gamergater.

Yeah.

the 'Bernie bro' bullshit just feeds into this view too, it's pretty shameful stuff

 

[Ekai]

I had a dustup with a Hillary supporter who claimed that anybody who supported Bernie over Hillary was probably a Gamergater.

Yeah.

I remember the GG thing. I think it was in the PoliGaf topic? Could be wrong but I remember having to explain this in that topic. As someone affected by GG I'm still frankly insulted by the ease at which some just fling around that as an insult so easily, regardless of where/whatever side it comes from. GG isn't some bogeyman. It's a real thing and it has a weight to it. Blindly flinging it around as an insult is frankly insulting to those who have been affected by it.

 

[royalan]

The irony of ignoring facts and then misrepresenting his support of the crime bill.

I'm sorry, but how is his vote being misrepresented here. He voted for those crime laws. That's just a fact. And the rhetoric doesn't matter, especially if Hillary isn't being adjusted the same courtesy.

 

[Ekai]

the 'Bernie bro' bullshit just feeds into this view too, it's pretty shameful stuff

The outright denial of Hilary's history on LGBT matters happening in reaction to my criticism is frankly ridiculous to me too. Most everything I've seen come from Hillary supporters feels as though it comes from them reacting in an insulting defensive front to any criticism. They refuse to discuss the issues and just want to paint a swathe and ignore what the facts are/ignore the voice of anyone who doesn't fall in line with their views.

 

[Zoe]

I think young Latinos support Bernie more than Hillary

More Asians too.

 

[remist]

Eh, it's a bit hamfisted, but Hillary Clinton did not lie there:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/03/did-bernie-sanders-oppose-auto-rescue

Basically: There was an earlier standalone bill to bail out the auto industry, both Hillary and Bernie supported it (*gasp*) but it was killed by Republicans. Later, there was another bill that included the auto-industry bailout. Hillary voted for it, as did a lot of democrats. Bernie voted no, because this bill included the wall street bailout.

So Bernie can cry all he wants about how that same bill supported Wall Street, but that doesn't make Hillary's claim any less true. It's especially damning because the money for the auto industry was THE reason many democrats supported that bill. And not the Wall Street money. The auto industry needed that help, and all signs point to things being a hell of a lot worse today if they didn't get it.

I know the context, but the point is that it was clearly meant to mislead voters by leaving out that context and making them think Bernie was against the auto bailout, when he wasn't. The sad part is that all this dishonest behavior isn't even necessary, she pretty much has it locked up. She is just a bad candidate and its sad that this is the only option given to us by the democratic establishment,

 

[Ekai]

I'm sorry, but how is his vote being misrepresented here. He voted for those crime laws. That's just a fact. And the rhetoric doesn't matter, especially if Hillary isn't being adjusted the same courtesy.

Hilalry is getting more than her courtesy on her record here. You're the one continuing to smear Bernie supporters and you're the one continuing to spread blatant lies about Bernie's record. You're also the one denying that DADT even existed! Just because you refuse to give any ground for criticism on her. <_< Please don't ask for "courtesy" when you're giving anything but here.

 

[TheOohChild]

I'm sorry, but how is his vote being misrepresented here. He voted for those crime laws. That's just a fact. And the rhetoric doesn't matter, especially if Hillary isn't being adjusted the same courtesy.

I don't need to recite the information your are willfully choosing to ignore.

 

[royalan]

I don't need to recite the information your are willfully choosing to ignore.

Nothing is being ignored. I'm very well aware of Sanders' stated excuse. The point is that you can't attack Hillary Clinton for those crime laws when Bernie actually voted for them. Because the vote is what matters. The vote enacts policy.

 

[BanGy.nz]

The constant infighting sucks, the sooner this primary is over the better tbh.

 

[Ekai]

I don't need to recite the information your are willfully choosing to ignore.

Royalan is literally rewriting history so that DADT didn't even exist so I'm not surprised. They've acted this way before too.

The constant infighting sucks, the sooner this primary is over the better tbh.

I don't like in-fighting either but the blatant insults and denial of the existence of some very important legislation for all LGBT individuals, and even minor actions that helped trans individuals such as myself when almost no one did a thing for us, is frankly ridiculous no matter how you cut it. And that's putting it extremely lightly. I am still a Democrat and always will be leftist but Hillary supporters have started to make me dislike the Democrat party. I have never felt more used and abused when it comes to politics.

 

[DR2K]

Correction: she didn't vote for them, because as First Lady she didn't actually have a vote.

Bernie Sanders voted in favor of those crime laws, though.

Shhh... Bernie Sandars is an angel.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Ageism attacks? Really?

Not the person you're responding to, but the ability to remember things is something I'd like from my president.

 

[remist]

Nothing is being ignored. I'm very well aware of Sanders' stated excuse. The point is that you can't attack Hillary Clinton for those crime laws when Bernie actually voted for them. Because the vote is what matters. The vote enacts policy.

That is delusional. Thier reasoning informs their political principles at the time. Hillary directly campaigned for the shitty part of the bill, while sanders only voted for it because of other riders. Both of them fucked up, but there is a difference and Clinton looks worse.

 

[NEO0MJ]

American politicians seem so dishonest and distasteful. I Don't know if I'm misremembering but they don't seem as bad in Europe. Not to say they're angels their but at least they're better than the US.

 

[Risette]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198234229&postcount=4073

Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? lol

If anything it only furthers the narrative that Hillary supporters are unable to understand that the LGBT community encompasses more than gay cis men.

 

[TheOohChild]

Nothing is being ignored. I'm very well aware of Sanders' stated excuse. The point is that you can't attack Hillary Clinton for those crime laws when Bernie actually voted for them. Because the vote is what matters. The vote enacts policy.

"excuse"....

So no one who has ever lobbied for a piece of legislation bares any responsibility for that legislation if they don't have a vote. Got it.

 

[Ekai]

Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? lol

If anything it only furthers the narrative that Hillary supporters are unable to understand that the LGBT community encompasses more than gay cis men.

Pretty much. They also conveniently left out my whole conversation with ivaysaur and my response to ivaysaur's post there which points out that ivaysaur ignores facts of the matter surrounding the good Bernie has done. He has a complicated history on LGBT matters and I don't deny some of his past but overall he's been far more supportive than her. Even during times when he wasn't for same-sex marriage, he still pushed for us in other ways at the very least. Hillary never did a thing for anyone in the spectrum til it was "safe" for her to do so. Just, ugh. This really feels like nothing more than attempt to silence my voice on the matter. And that's putting it lightly.

And those two (royalan and sukioguy) have the gall to claim they're posting in good faith. Especially when they're literally denying DADT existed. Some Hillary supporters man....

 

[DR2K]

That is delusional. Thier reasoning informs their political principles at the time. Hillary directly campaigned for the shitty part of the bill, while sanders only voted for it because of other riders. Both of them fucked up, but there is a difference and Clinton looks worse.

Bernie Sandars prides himself on his voting record. It's one of his platforms in this campaign, but the only one under fire for it is the First Lady at the time.

 

[nynt9]

The constant infighting sucks, the sooner this primary is over the better tbh.

Blatant lies are blatant lies regardless of primary season or not.

Oh wait, I meant "misspeak"

 

[remist]

Bernie Sandars prides himself on his voting record. It's one of his platforms in this campaign, but the only one under fire for it is the First Lady at the time.

Like I said they both look bad, but the fact that she was the first lady isn't an excuse. She advocated for the tough on crime part of the bill and Bernie was against those policies.

 

[royalan]

That is delusional. Thier reasoning informs their political principles at the time. Hillary directly campaigned for the shitty part of the bill, while sanders only voted for it because of other riders. Both of them fucked up, but there is a difference and Clinton looks worse.

"excuse"....

So no one who has ever lobbied for a piece of legislation bares any responsibility for that legislation if they don't have a vote. Got it.

I don't excuse Hillary Clinton for those laws, but that's just the point: I don't excuse ANYONE. There were a lot of black leaders at the time who supported the laws. There were a lot of black communities that were being hit hard by crime that supported those laws. I'm from one of those communities. But despite good intentions, those laws ended up doing a lot of harm to my community, and people like me. So NOBODY gets off. And that's my point. You can argue about how "not as bad" Bernie's vote was, but he voted for it all the same.

 

[Ekai]

I don't excuse Hillary Clinton for those laws, but that's just the point: I don't excuse ANYONE. There were a lot of black leaders at the time who supported the laws. There were a lot of black communities that were being hit hard by crime that supported those laws. I'm from one of those communities. But despite good intentions, those laws ended up doing a lot of harm to my community, and people like me. So NOBODY gets off. And that's my point. You can argue about how "not as bad" Bernie's vote was, but he voted for it all the same.

Funny since you denied DADT existed a page ago so you could ignore how Hillary supported it and Bernie opposed it. You excuse her all the damn time.

 

[DR2K]

Like I said they both look bad, but the fact that she was the first lady isn't an excuse. She advocated for the tough on crime part of the bill and Bernie was against those policies.

Right, but in general only Hillary has been getting flak for it. Bernie goes unscathed. I'm sure he would have voted against it if it had some Wall Street provision.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

That's a semantics argument. No support = Little Support. I did not mean literally no support.

I think the only minority group that Bernie has little support of is the Black community.

He seemed to do well with Latinos in Nevada.
He seemed to do well with Natives in Kansas. ( due to winning Kansas) He also has Native American woman activist introducing him.

As a Native American , I support Bernie.

 

[Ekai]

I think the only minority group that Bernie has little support of is the Black community.

He seemed to do well with Latinos in Nevada.
He seemed to do well with Natives in Kansas. ( due to winning Kansas) He also has Native American woman activist introducing him.

As a Native American , I support Bernie.

But some Hillary supporters have to continue the narrative that you can't be a minority and support Bernie because reasons. >_>

 

[Breads]

Eh... just be careful with using age as an attack or criticism this election.

You're the one who implied age. They implied a specific member of their family. I call mine "Ita", a nickname she gave herself.

That aside this was probably just a gaffe brought on by overshadowing others for so long that they forgot that they aren't the only ones who deserved credit. I'm sure Hillary has dealt with thousands and thousands of people and this was just some small detail she forgot. Happens to everyone. It's just amplified because she is in a public position in the age of the internet.

 

[GSG Flash]

I voted for Sanders but yes, this is the most obnoxious thing about his more outspoken supporters. They've made up a man that doesn't exist.

I think the same can be said about Hillary supporters' personification of Hillary.

To be honest, hardcore Bernie fans are really annoying, but Hillary supporters are just outright irritating.

Her defense from supporters usually comes in the form of accusations of sexism, spinning her blatant lies, or vilifying any Democrat who doesn't support her(regardless of their view of Hillary).

 

[remist]

Right, but in general only Hillary has been getting flak for it. Bernie goes unscathed. I'm sure he would have voted against it if it had some Wall Street provision.

I don't think that's true. they've both caught a lot of flak, but I think Hillary's actions were worse and furthermore: I think it shows along with other things like DADT that Hillary's principles when it comes to civil rights will be reactive to the public sentiment and you will never see her be proactive like Joe Biden was with gay marriage. Hillary is a reactive status quo candidate, that is a terrible thing for the democratic party.

 

[Valhelm]

I don't think that's true. they've both caught a lot of flak, but I think Hillary's actions were worse and furthermore: I think it shows along with other things like DADT that Hillary's principles when it comes to civil rights will be reactive to the public sentiment and you will never see her be proactive like Joe Biden was with gay marriage. Hillary is a reactive status quo candidate, that is a terrible thing for the democratic party.

I'm not sure if I'd call her reactive, but she's definitely very stationary.

 

[Tesseract]

Bernie needs to go ham now, it's time to get nasty. Absolutely boogery.

neoliberalism is bad for americans, Hillary must be destroyed

Tossed into mountain dew

Even if Hillary wins, the fight isn't over. Remember to scribble down Bernie or Jill or Danny devito at the GE box.

 

[Days like these...]

But some Hillary supporters have to continue the narrative that you can't be a minority and support Bernie because reasons. >_>

Bernie got the arab vote in Michigan too.

 

[SeanR1221]

Man stuff like this just bums me out. I'm not really excited for either candidate at this point.

 

[GreatestHits]

Why is it that Bernie trends well with the young'ns? Because theyre a bunch a freeloaders? Or because theyre not indoctrinated into our madhouse mickeymouse operation system?

Either/or fallacy?

Or would you like some grey poupon?

Does Hillary even lift? Or play basketball?

Man stuff like this just berns me out. I'm not really excited for either candidate at this point.

Iseewhatudidtheretrollface

 

[nacimento]

I assume it breaks Hillary's wires that she is coming into danger of losing what she feels entitled to by bonds of marriage and establishment cred to an uppity jew after losing to an uppity black man in 2008.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Bernie needs to go ham now, it's time to get nasty. Absolutely boogery.

He already has. He has been going negative for a bit now. Tons of negative ads, etc. Even though he said he never would.

neoliberalism is bad for americans, Hillary must be destroyed

Tossed into mountain dew

Even if Hillary wins, the fight isn't over. Remember to scribble down Bernie or Jill or Danny devito at the GE box.

This.. this is a bit ridiculous. Or are you joking? I can't tell :/

 

[Particle Physicist]

I assume it breaks Hillary's wires that she is coming into danger of losing what she feels entitled to by bonds of marriage and establishment cred to an uppity jew after losing to an uppity black man in 2008.

That is also ridiculous and quite frankly, very misogynist. One thing you can't say about Hillary is that she hasn't work very hard to be where she is at.

 

[dream]

I am expressing a fact of the matter regarding how you and royalan and many in PoliGaf and in other places online and to my fucking face have done. You exploit minorities and essentially tell us to "get in line" if we prefer Bernie over Hillary. I am getting really damn tired of attacks from some Hillary supporters who have shown me they could give two shits about my existence or views. I will still vote for her if she gets the nom. but I have had very little of any positive experience with her supporters. And you two sure are contributing to that negativity.

I am continuing to tell you facts regarding DADT (Hillary supported, Bernie opposed. This is a fact. the speech he gave is there. her vote is there. please don't revise LGBT history just because you refuse to admit Hillary has any faults) and the auto-bailout (it was a Wallstreet- Bailout) and you continue to not acknowledge that your claims against me are outright wrong. You just don't want to acknowledge my criticism and instead have done NOTHING but continue to belittle me. That's literally all you've and royalan have done. Especialy in regards to DADT. Royalan acting like DADT doesn't even exist? Are you serious? What kind of cognitive dissonance/honesty can you have to know the facts and actively act like they don't exist? If it's because you know the facts and know admitting to them would break your argument then this is just childish purist argumentation from you two in defense of Hillary when the facts contradict your arguments.

And as a casual observer, you're not the only person they do this to.

The irony is when pressed on their aggressive support of Hillary, many of them default to using rhetoric about being persecuted because they're "not falling in line."

 

[The Technomancer]

That is also ridiculous and quite frankly, very misogynist. One thing you can't say about Hillary is that she hasn't work very hard to be where she is at.

yeah worked hard to become part of the establishment

..

$hillary

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Even if Hillary wins, the fight isn't over. Remember to scribble down Bernie or Jill or Danny devito at the GE box.

amazing. and then when we have a gop president will you trumpet your horn of success at sending a message or whatever excuse you have? you will be denying another progressive the path to the potus another decade or more, someone who could follow in bernie's path and forge forward.