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[Maintenance]

Don't go too hard on Platy, look at what she said about democracy in the other thread:

Democracy means respecting the elected president by the majority of voters, exactly the opposite of what happened in OP's protest =P

It has nothing to do with corruption

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

You can't change what democracy is "just because".

 

[Raijin_Cain]

ANOTHER judge canceled the first judges cancelation of the ministry.

Nope. That needs to be of a higher instance.

The law says that when multiple judges differ on a matter, the decision of the first stands until the higher court decides it (in this case the Supreme Court)

In fact, we just have to wait because PPS (another political party) has an action to be seen by the Supreme Court already.

That will decide everything.

 

[KeyChainDude]

Ok guys, things are starting to get really weird now. Mauro Lopes, nominated minister of Civil Aviation this morning by president Dilma, has just positioned himself in favor of the Impeachment. His answer was a standard "we gotta investigate and the truth will surface" statement, but still... This is ironic as hell LOL

http://veja.abril.com.br/noticia/br...tm_campaign=redesabril_veja&utm_content=feed&

 

[Maintenance]

Ok guys, now things are starting to get really weird now. Mauro Lopes, nominated minister of Civil Aviation this morning by president Dilma, has just positioned himself in favor of the Impeachment. His answer was a standard "we gotta investigate and the truth will surface" statement, but still... This is ironic as hell LOL

http://veja.abril.com.br/noticia/br...tm_campaign=redesabril_veja&utm_content=feed&

Some context: this happened because PMDB prohibited anyone from the party to accept jobs from the president. Mauro Lopes is from PMDB and still accepted the position. and now the party is trying to remove him (not from the job, the party itself). The vice-president Michel Temer and even Renan Calheiros, longtime ally of Dilma and president of the Senate are both from PMDB and did not go to the event today.

 

[tlstls]

The PF said that the recordings were made after the network operator was already notified.

I guess it's up to each one's bias to believe if technicians had enough time to stop the recordings.

And frankly regardless of how long it would take, if the order to stop was received, any content tapped after it should have not been sent to the PF.

Network operators, internet providers and social networks are at a constant war with our justice in order to protect our privacy rights. A couple weeks ago Facebook brazilain CEO was arrested because the company did not acquiesced to an order to crack open a user profile and sent all it's private messages to a judge. WhatsApp was disabled in our whole country when they refused to provide the password to a user's account.

And yet when it comes to some people networks are not simply obeying judicial orders, but they are actually going above and beyond recording content when they were already told to stop.

The fact is that the PF chief that was in charge of the taps, Luciano Flores de Lima was the same guy that questioned Lula when he was coerced to testify. Testimony that everyone that knows what the fuck is legal (including one of the leaders of PSDB) seems to agree that was not only unnecessary but probably illegal.

Edit: And before any fellow brazilian accuses me of being pro government, complicit of corruption or simply "Petralha", know that if or when Aécio or other "tucanos" are questioned I'll be the first one to defend their rights when shit gets out of the way as it is right now.

As a citizen I feel the right to know what is happening and I feel really grateful to Moro. We must know what they are plotting with our money.

 

[Sapientas]

Then you should know that our penal code has no crime by that name, nor does it carry any definition of what, exactly, that would entail.

What article are you thinking of?

With this post I can see that I have worded mine's in badly manner.
Saying that I'm a law student was stupid since
I wasn't thinking nor did I mention any article in the penal code or other law that involve the term of "obstruction of justice". I do know that that term isn't actually used in our legislation, it's actually a concept, a surprisingly solid one, that is used in jurisprudence and midia outlets to represent crimes against the development and competence of judiciary processes (of the justice).
My point still stands. The idea of obstructing the justice is wildly accepted and easy to understand, but the poster I was responding to tip-toed around it saying that it's not an obstruction if he will be judged anyway by a entirely different court.

 

[superdeluxe]

Is it so bad that there might be a coup?

 

[gutter_trash]

you guys need a Constitutional reboot

 

[lazygecko]

Are there even any historical examples of nations reversing significant corruption? It seems that once you pass a certain thershold of systemic corruption, it just becomes part of the nation's DNA and subconsciously indoctrinates the citizens' outlook on how institutions and other people work.

 

[lord]

you guys need a Constitutional reboot

The country is at a turning point, if they're able to solve this without reversing the years of democratic progress after the dictatorship, it has the potential to create a change in attitude among the political elites. Brazil can come out of this stronger than ever. A reboot would just continue the cycle that has been going on for centuries in LatAm.

 

[Walpurgis]

Holy crap, this is insane. Thanks for posting this, OP.

Does anyone know of any good Vice documentaries or English articles summarising all this? This is really exciting (not in a good way).

 

[Raijin_Cain]

Well, as of a few minutes ago Congress has opened the impeachment comission.

From what I have heard there are more members that want the impeachment than those against it.

Now starts the long work of the comission. There is time for president's defense, gathering of evidence, time for a report to be made. Several days (weeks probably).

After all of that then the House of Representatives votes.

If it passes it goes to the Senate and that has its own process.

Long road ahead but today was a good first step.

 

[KeyChainDude]

Holy crap, this is insane. Thanks for posting this, OP.

Does anyone know of any good Vice documentaries or English articles summarising all this? This is really exciting (not in a good way).

Actually I don't, and this is what is pissing me off the most. I have no idea why these news aren't getting international coverage, this is HUGE. It's the biggest movement in Brazil's history already!

You know, this is indeed exciting, I'm really glad to be part of this. And probably in a good way too! It's the best chance our nation has ever had to put the trash out and become a better democracy.

Well, as of a few minutes ago Congress has opened the impeachment comission.

From what I have heard there are more members that want the impeachment than those against it.

Now starts the long work of the comission. There is time for president's defense, gathering of evidence, time for a report to be made. Several days (weeks probably).

After all of that then the House of Representatives votes.

If it passes it goes to the Senate and that has its own process.

Long road ahead but today was a good first step.

It truly was. It's been a long time coming, but we're almost there mate! We can't step back now.

 

[Platy]

Paulo Maluf, a Brazilian politician searched by the FBI is in the impeachment commission.

Onion write our serious new articles

 

[Light_End]

Very insightful, OP. I have no idea how this isn't getting a lick of coverage in the news.

Now the judge in charge, that lost jurisdiction to proceed the case, wouldn't stand seeing Lula getting away unscathered and said "fuck it", leaking all the recorded tapes from Lula with Dilma and other important politicians to the public. He arguably threw the constitution out of the window to cause social outrage, and you bet it goddamn worked.

Heroic, hot damn. That's beautiful.

 

[Fat Goron]

Paulo Maluf, a Brazilian politician searched by the FBI is in the impeachment commission.

Onion write our serious new articles

Truly the kind of man our holy government would despise.

 

[Platy]

Dude was the president .... he shaked hands with EVERYONE =P

 

[NYCmetsfan]

LOL at Glenn Grenwald concern trolling about the judge leaking stuff.

The irony.

 

[Walpurgis]

LOL at Glenn Grenwald concern trolling about the judge leaking stuff.

The irony.

Lol! What did he say?

 

[Aureon]

Honestly, if you're a major elected official and evidence of criminal wrongdoing exists, i give absolutely no fucks how it was obtained.
The people who vote have a right to know.

 

[Ingeniero]

Impeachment is inminent.
This is a disgrace for democracy.

 

[Platy]

Honestly, if you're a major elected official and evidence of criminal wrongdoing exists, i give absolutely no fucks how it was obtained.
The people who vote have a right to know.

 

[Jackpot]

That's... a complete non sequitur. That phrase doesn't apply to anything that was just said.

 

[Platy]

That's... a complete non sequitur. That phrase doesn't apply to anything that was just said.

We are talking about an illegal wire to arrest something .... it has everything to do with it

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Lol! What did he say?

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald

Some highlights

O @WikiLeaks explica a diferença obvia entre os vazamentos deles e um vazamento de um **juiz** Glenn Greenwald added,

You can't leak because he's a judge (but remember Grennwald built himself of government officials going against their role and leaking due to moral impetus)

@ggreenwald 4h4 hours ago
Glenn Greenwald Retweeted Gabriel Dread
Exatamente: criticando o abuso do poder do o juiz não significa defendendo outra corrupção. Eles são separados.

"Remember I'm not defending corruption just saying you can't tackle it this way"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710501404914401280

Quotes something equating the judges action with Dilma and Lulas

‏@ggreenwald 5h5 hours ago View translation
.@gabrieldread Não é pra um *juiz divulgar evidência com motivos políticos. Ele nāo é jornalista. Esse é um abuso do poder. O perigo é obvio

‏@ggreenwald 35m35 minutes ago
Amazing/disturbing how the bulk of large/corporate Brazilian media is openly inciting street protests and cheering for impeachment.

There's some points in there but its so transparent he has different standards for people who share his beliefs

 

[Zero-ELEC]

We are talking about an illegal wire to arrest something .... it has everything to do with it

I thought it wasn't illegal...

 

[NYCmetsfan]

That's... a complete non sequitur. That phrase doesn't apply to anything that was just said.

To be fair that quote in its original context problem applies more to that (its about struggles between legislatures and executives) than its common usage in NSA type debates

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said

 

[Meaty]

We are talking about an illegal wire to arrest something .... it has everything to do with it

Except in this case society is not giving up on its liberty, its the oposite. Your beloved dilma is holding the country hostage and the fact lula's privacy was broken has given the people more liberty AND security.


Fuck off platy.

 

[Dr.Acula]

We are talking about an illegal wire to arrest something .... it has everything to do with it

More like giving up a little security (conversations by state leaders leaked) for a little liberty (uncovering corruption).

 

[Meaty]

I thought it wasn't illegal...

It wasnt. Platy will just say whatever makes pt look good not giving a fuck about whats true or not, and having 0 understanding of the law

 

[KeyChainDude]

I thought it wasn't illegal...

It's questionable. Right now it stands as valid evidence since the judge ordered the cease of the monitoring, and the conversation was intercepted in the interval between his order and the telecommunications company actually shutting it down. But the defense will try to deem it unusable by all costs.

 

[Platy]

I thought it wasn't illegal...

Chances are it is not, even if it is questionable ... but I was answering to someone who said he "give absolutely no fucks how it was obtained" and I said it IS important how it was obtained

 

[Raijin_Cain]

It's questionable. Right now it stands as valid evidence since the judge ordered the cease of the monitoring, and the conversation was intercepted in the interval between his order and the telecommunications company actually shutting it down. But the defense will try to deem it unusable by all costs.

Actualy several jurists have said that many many cases in the past had this happen but judges would always accept thes audios.

They only went against it if they saw some kind of wrong intention ("má-fé") on the part of the police/prosecutor. There was no bad intention in this case. Just luck to catch it.

 

[AuthenticM]

That's fucked up.

 

[Maintenance]

Truly the kind of man our holy government would despise.

Of course people will ignore and defend this.

By the way, the list is out:

Maluf is pro-Dilma.

(Contra / red means against impeachment, A favor / blue means pro - impeachment)

 

[Platy]

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald

Some highlights

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710480039654072320

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710501123602444289

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710501404914401280

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710549081240813568

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710565224290635776

BONUS !

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710566296476368896

 

[hawk2025]

Greenwald, kindly fuck off.

 

[Maintenance]

Greenwald, kindly fuck off.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, etc etc.

 

[hawk2025]

And to add to this, a big lol for everyone still using the "evil media" card when we now have the ex-president ON TAPE admitting to inserting articles in Carta Capital.




Check yourselves.

 

[Platy]

And to add to this, a big lol for everyone still using the "evil media" card when we now have the ex-president ON TAPE admitting to inserting articles in Carta Capital.




Check yourselves.

Only "left" people read Carta Capital ... they NEVER hided where they standed.

The problem is that REDE GLOBO and VEJA tryes to hide where they stand even if it is ridiculously obvious and they reach a RIDICULOUSLY bigger amount of people

edit :

By the way, the list is out:

Maluf is pro-Dilma.

(Contra / red means against impeachment, A favor / blue means pro - impeachment)

Maluf is against =|
But Covas, Bolsonaro, Feliciano, Paulinho da Força are in favor =P

Actualy I expected much more people in favor in PMDB considering the boost the party will get if Temmer becomes president

 

[Raijin_Cain]

Only "left" people read Carta Capital ... they NEVER hided where they standed.

The problem is that REDE GLOBO and VEJA tryes to hide where they stand even if it is ridiculously obvious and they reach a RIDICULOUSLY bigger amount of people

edit :


Maluf is against =|
But Covas, Bolsonaro, Feliciano, Paulinho da Forã are in favor =P

Actualy I expected much more people in favor in PMDB considering the boost the party will get if Temmer becomes president

Why do you always jump my posts?

I talked exactly about what you said.

 

[Maintenance]

Maluf is against =|
But Covas, Bolsonaro, Feliciano, Paulinho da Força are in favor =P

Actualy I expected much more people in favor in PMDB considering the boost the party will get if Temmer becomes president

Can't you read? I said "pro-Dilma". Not pro-impeachment.

All the red names are against impeachment.

 

[Memento]

Calm down guys, everything is under control.

 

[Platy]

Can't you read? I said "pro-Dilma". Not pro-impeachment.

All the red names are against impeachment.

I am agreeing with you that it is sad that he is against the impeachment !

Why do you always jump my posts?

I talked exactly about what you said.

Sorry it is hard to look at basicaly 2 threads about the same thing xD

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Those are ALL voters protesting, and it's not exactly tiny. This is worth going through the process of electing another president.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Platy must suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. PT steals the fucking country but she is completely in love with them. It's kinda sad.

 

[Platy]

Platy must suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. PT steals the fucking country but she is completely in love with them. It's kinda sad.

I am not in love ... I didn't even voted for Dilma in the first turn, I voted for PSOL.

But I am TERRIFIED of any other option that we are left if Dilma is out.
Specialy if this opens the idea for impeachment of someone who did nothing illegal, even if she didn't do a good job at being a politician this time

I mean ... Lula is still in INVESTIGATION PART at lava jato. Cunha is already investigated proved wrong and DUDE IS STILL THE SECOND IN LINE TO SUBSTITUTE HER AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING PRESIDENT OF THE CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES BEING BEYOND INVESTIGATION PART AND STILL ON THE JOB ????
The first in line of substitution is EXACTLY IN THE SAME PLACE AS LULA in lava jato .... except he didn't had 40 years of veja and globo in his ass =P

 

[Josh5890]

And this country is supposed to host the Olympics in five months?

 

[Ganzlinger]

I am not in love ... I didn't even voted for Dilma in the first turn, I voted for PSOL.

But I am TERRIFIED of any other option that we are left if Dilma is out.

I mean ... Lula is still in INVESTIGATION PART at lava jato. Cunha is already investigated proved wrong and DUDE IS STILL THE SECOND IN LINE TO SUBSTITUTE HER

You know this is all PT's fault along with PMDB. You chose poorly and these are the consequences.

Anyway, the market will respond a lot better with Rousseff's resignment or impeachment, things probably would calm down with Temer. Say what you want about him but he is now cleaner than Rousseff. lol

 

[Walpurgis]

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald

Some highlights

You can't leak because he's a judge (but remember Grennwald built himself of government officials going against their role and leaking due to moral impetus)

"Remember I'm not defending corruption just saying you can't tackle it this way"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/710501404914401280

Quotes something equating the judges action with Dilma and Lulas





There's some points in there but its so transparent he has different standards for people who share his beliefs

Wow. And I had respect for him. I hope he realises how stupid he's looking right now.