NX Controller Rumor [Up5: Original was fake, and thus this is too]

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DownGrader said:
People were saying the same about buttons for phones, keyboard-only controls for computers etc. "Worked fine for decades" excuse leads to nothing but stagnation.
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Computers still use keyboards. Game consoles that sell well still use buttons. Your point?

DownGrader said:
I think they did care about the fact that it has borders, like touch screen devices from early 2000s, and looked nothing like modern tablets.
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That's a pretty peculiar point to pick up on.
 
Boogdud said:
Actually now that I look at it, it's not just the monitor, it's the person taking the picture's head in the monitor flipped upside down (from being in the monitor's reflection). The yellow light is behind their head. It looks like a desk/floor lamp.

Someone needs to draw the outline of that person's head. DETECTIVE GAF ASSEMBLE!!
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That person needs some head and shoulders. heh
 
This thread is starting to swirl back round on itself. Reposting the same pictures from different angles with the same findings that other folks have already pointed out. People will be pointing out trees again before long. I guess it was bound to happen with a thread this big. I think it's time to leave until we actually get some new information...
 
After sleeping on it a night, I am still intrigued (like, is this real, etc.).

Agree with what has been said in many places that:
a) the haptic buttons make more sense with a handheld that you are looking at and
b) if this is the console controller, seems like it would be another cost albatross like the gamepad [which I adore, but the cost affected the whole architecture]

Happy that Nintendo keeps Nintendo-ing, to my delight and frustration.
 
Mysterious said:
1. You are always looking at a phone's screen while you are using it
2. You don't require time-based response and precision when dealing with a phone

1. You are not always looking at a controller while you are using it
2. You require time-based response and precision when dealing with a game
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Neither of these statements is anywhere near universally true.
 
DownGrader said:
People were saying the same about buttons for phones, keyboard-only controls for computers etc. "Worked fine for decades" excuse leads to nothing but stagnation.
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I don´t think anyone prefers touch over buttons - even on a phone.

The difference being that because of the physical restrictions, because of the size of a phone and the fact you want to carry it around it makes sense.

For a dedicated handheld gaming device? Not so much.

For a home console? Not at all.
 
Boogdud said:
Find this man Detective GAF

Xs9VoPS.jpg




;)
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Fine Ham Abounds said:
This is like really not where any of us want this thread to go

Or rather lots of people want it to go that way, but will regret it later
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I know your right but im curious...

1en6e5v.png

http://www.massive.se/about-us/
 
Does this dev not have the NX handheld prototype? I mean Mochi said devs got atleast two units. Why isn't he showing us the other unit? Unless they didn't want it, but not sure how that works.
 
darkness_s said:
Have you seen the gameplay? It seems like you actually need to tap the keys/click the mouse buttons pretty fast, which would be very awkward to do with the sticks.
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Yeah, I mean idk how it would work well. But why would he say the NX version allows for 8 colors now instead of 4 from the PC if it's not using the sticks? Maybe you move the sticks around to pick the color and press a button to drop the color? (perhaps if those top scroll wheels are clickable, that would be it?).
 
Brinbe said:
That's a funny and truthful point... People are whining about how its good that Nintendo just not following suit and building a PS4 box or something, but that's not the point. It's not about following what's popular, it's about building something that the market has shown, people want from their gaming consoles. Getting back to basics and just developing a solid gaming device, without gimmicks, has often been an incredible formula for success, regardless of company. Whether that's Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft.

Nintendo's probably gonna follow the same trajectory they've been on for years. Maybe one day they'll wake up and finally give consumers what they want.
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Who said "I want a game controller shaped like my TV remote, and with a separate attachable control stick" before the Wii came out?

There was no market desire for that, but the Wii became one of the best selling consoles of all time.
 
Remember the last time they removed physical buttons from a common device (the Computer) and made a touch-only device (the Tablet)?

Tablets found a new use case, and work really well for that (media consumption). They, however, did not replace core uses of a computer (word processing, spreadsheets, coding, etc). Why? Because it lacked a keyboard.

When Apple and Microsoft introduced a new variant of the tablet, what did they include back again? A keyboard.
 
ironcreed said:
I feel sorry for anyone that desperate.
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I'm personally kind of surprised anyone still thinks it's definitely 100% real. The white one (to me) was very clearly fake with very obvious inconsistencies and this is the same design.

I'll say it could be real, but I very much doubt it.
 
Mysterious said:
Yes, when you orient the camera upwards, it creates an unflattering photo. Please show me an instance of a consumer electronic good where the camera is at the bottom.

And yes, Nintendo would definitely test it. And know it didn't work. Which is why it's fake. :)
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If the controller was 2 feet tall this would be true. We are talking a matter of inches here and at arms length - it will make no difference.

Test it with your smartphone if you like - I just did; Take a photo of your face from the distance you would normally hold a controller/handheld gaming device, then take another one at the same distance but 2-3 inches lower down.
 
The_Lump said:
If the controller was 2 feet tall this would be true. We are talking a matter of inches here and at arms length - it will make no difference.

Test it with your smartphone if you like - I just did; Take a photo of your face from the distance you would normally hold a controller/handheld gaming device, then take another one at the same distance but 2-3 inches lower down.
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I just tested it with an iPhone Plus.
 
otakukidd said:
And innovation just for innovations sake is what led to the wiimote.
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This reeks so much of ignorance that I have to crush it utterly.

The reasons why the Wii Remote were created are supremely well-documented.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/wii_remote/0/1

Iwata: Miyamoto-san, what was the key concept for you when you started making the [Wii] controller?

Miyamoto: It was the idea of accessibility. Rather than make something that would make people wonder if they could use it or not, I wanted to make something that would make people want to pick it up and try using it. Of course, I also had to keep my own experience of making video games in mind. It was absolutely essential to make something that would also work with older games. I also spent a lot of time thinking about what makes a design accessible. It was in this context that we started to question everything about conventional controllers, including the idea that a controller had to be held with both hands. This was something that you had mentioned from the beginning of development, wasn't it?

Iwata: Yes, it was. There was even some ideas that could be considered to be extreme.

Miyamoto: It was a good opportunity for us to think outside the box. Although these extreme ideas did not lead us directly to the final controller design, they were the important ideas in breaking down old conventions and expanding the scope of our discussions. This was good in the sense that it allowed us to consider ideas such as not using hands at all, or even putting the controller on your head, for example. Of course, going too far in that direction would just lead to something that is different just for the sake of being different. An eccentric design like that might work well for some games, but could never be used as a standard, making it a difficult choice for a console's primary controller. So we wanted to come up with a bold and daring design that would be within the bounds of reason.

Iwata: So, this is what you meant by accessiblity. The task ahead of you must certainly have seemed difficult, but what actually caused you to start moving in the direction of the current controller?

Miyamoto: Well, there are several overlapping factors. First of all, Mr Takeda suggested using a pointer. In the subsequent discussions, Mr Ikeda talked about making it into the current straight shape, kind of like a rod. This was perfectly in line with my train of thought.

Ikeda: Mr Miyamoto would bring out his mobile phone during meetings and say enthusiastically "Can't we make something like this?" (laughs)
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http://kotaku.com/5543591/the-birth-of-the-ds-and-the-wii

"What's keeping people from touching game machines? What's making them run away?"

Their discussions started there. Recent game systems had button-encrusted controllers that were too complicated. Software that used complicated technology was becoming more common, and the gap between experienced players and beginners was growing wider all the time. It scared people off-or worse, made them actively dislike videogames. Their discussions grew to encompass the themes of games.

While adventure games like Mario were fine, was that really enough? What if games included themes that related to the lives of ordinary people? Would people who considered gaming a waste of time embrace it then? As they converged on the company's new direction, the idea came to Miyamoto: dedicate one of the displays to touch control.

One screen would be used for intuitive, approachable controls, and the other would be the main display. The system would be easy for anyone to control, and it would allow the development of new kinds of games.

[...]

In the first half of 2003, when Iwata and Miyamoto were dreaming up designs for the Nintendo's new dual-screened portable system, they were also deep in discussions with the head of integrated research, Takeda, about a new home game system.

Takeda was Nintendo's hardware pro, responsible for the development of every home game system from the NES to the GameCube-but this time, Iwata had given him new orders.

"Takeda, listen — this time we can't just focus on making a more powerful system."

"So you're telling me to go off the tech roadmap?" Takeda asked.

"That's right. Let's get off it."

It went against every piece of received wisdom in the videogame industry...

Iwata was telling Takeda to stop planning designs based solely on technological progress. What he was suggesting now was an entirely new approach; it was something that had never been tried before.

Instead of designing a console around fundamental performance, the new system would expressly seek out technology that would endear itself to families-a "Mom has to like it" approach to development.

"Videogames drive Mom crazy-she has to pick up the controllers once the kids are done playing, they've already got multiple consoles plugged into the TV and she doesn't want another one. They're a nuisance, as far as she's concerned. We realized that if we wanted to grow the gaming population, we had to build a console that no one in the family hated."

[...]

For the Revolution to live up to its codename and revolutionize the game industry by expanding the gaming population, it would need something special.

The DS, with its dual screens and stylus controls, lowered the barrier to videogames. The Revolution needed to do the same thing. The controller would be at the core of its interface, and it could not be less than perfect.

Certain aspects of the controller were decided early in its development: It had to be wireless, and it could not be intimidating.

When Iwata was talking to Miyamoto and company about the circumstances that were leading to gaming's decline, the first thing that came to the president's mind was a TV remote control-a piece of technology the entire family used.

People who didn't play videogames never touched game controllers. The wires that snaked out from the console were nothing but a nuisance to them, and if controllers dared to be left about, they were put away. But the TV remote never bothered anybody. As Iwata considered the difference between the two, he realized the new controller would have to be wireless.

Then he wondered if people found controllers intimidating because of the way they looked.

Game controllers were constantly getting more complicated; in addition to the standard direction pad and buttons, they were now encrusted with all manner of analog control sticks and triggers, placed seemingly everywhere. Was that alone enough, perhaps, to drive people away from a videogame?

The new controller had to be simple and approachable. Iwata also felt that, like the DS's touch screen, it needed to facilitate direct, intuitive controls-and Miyamoto and Takeda agreed.
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Steel said:
Computers still use keyboards. Game consoles that sell well still use buttons. Your point?
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GlamFM said:
I don´t think anyone prefers touch over buttons - even on a phone.

The difference being that because of the physical restrictions, because of the size of a phone and the fact you want to carry it around it makes sense.

For a dedicated handheld gaming device? Not so much.

For a home console? Not at all.
Click to expand...

I was saying that, while there are many valid reasons to dismiss full-touch controls on a console, the "worked fine for decades" argument is lazy and counter-innovative in general.

otakukidd said:
And innovation just for innovations sake is what led to the wiimote.
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...comfortable, flexible and functional controller which gave a ton of possibilities to gamers and developers and led Nintendo to ultimate success in the last decade.
 
bachikarn said:
Highly benefit is definitely just your opinion. I'm happy to just do that stuff in the menu.
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You really want to go to the menu and manually select every item in 2016? It's one of the aspects that's aged poorly in Zelda games that's been fixed in re-releases. A more detailed map to help with navigating is pretty useful as well.
And with the gamepad you could do both.
 
bachikarn said:
You make it seem like the only way for Nintendo to innovative is through gimmicky controllers.

Some people don't want Nintendo to stagnate. They just wish the innovations were in gameplay. Like not making 4 NSMB games in a relatively short time frame.
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4 games on 4 different systems over the course of 10 years is stagnation? OK buddy
 
Not sure if this was posted, but a Reddit user brought up a patent filed by Broadcom, the folks behind the Gamepad streaming tech. It's an older patent, but who knows?

It's me again, your resident patent researcher. Patents are a tricky thing, as many people point out in the comments. They reference other patents like crazy, can go completely unused, and are impossible to read. With that, I found in incredibly interesting patent filed by Broadcom, the company behind the (actually very well received) gamepad technology.

So, going into this, here are a few reasons I'm really zeroing in on this one:
Broadcom's confirmed relationship to Nintendo

The patent is specifically for gaming devices. Most patents that I dig up only mention gaming devices as a possibility.

Here are things to consider against the patent:
It's old! 2013 is right on the edge of the NX timeline and another version of this patent was made even earlier.

Broadcom is by no means exclusive to Nintendo, they have just on the record worked together

Above all, what I'm showing is that a company Nintendo has worked with on the Wii U controller streaming has patented technology for re-configurable, digital button based on game needs

ESSENTIAL QUOTES:

"plurality of touch sensitive elements to produce at least one distinct user input location configured to simulate at least one mechanical interface function"
"Sometimes game controllers are specific to the particular game being supported, e.g., guitar hero, rock star, and various other particular types of games. In such case, these various types of inputs must be supported by differing unique game controllers. The expense and complexity of the multiple game controllers can be overwhelming for some users from a cost standpoint."

"Many gaming systems are contained within one unit such as the Nintendo Game Boy and its successors and the Sony Play Station and its successors, for example. These gaming systems include processing resources and a user interface contained within a single unit. With these units, various buttons receive user input while a display and speakers provide user output. Because of the limited battery life available for these units, their functionality has been limited in some regard. "

"Further, the plurality of touch sensitive elements of the touch pad [...] may be configured to correlate to particular user input functions. Such configurations may change over time based upon a game being played, a currently active game portion, user preferences, and/or other reasons for altering functionality of the button replacement operations of the touch pads."

"This wireless interface may be consistent with a Bluetooth interface, a wireless local area network (WLAN) interface, or another type of wireless communication interface that supports communications between the game console 202 and game controllers. Further, the wireless interface at 204 may support communications with a WLAN router or access point, a cellular infrastructure, a satellite communications network, or another type of wireless communications systems." - Fits in with the idea of a connected system
"However, when a game is being played that has a relatively higher input rate such as a fitness program, the scanning rate of one or more touch sensitive panels of one or more game controllers may be increased. Further, scanning of one or more of the touch sensitive panels may be enabled for some portions of the game while not enabled for another portion of the game. For example, grip/finger position movement or pressure changes may be enabled during a first portion of the game and not enabled for other portions of the game. Such is the case because the particular gaming input that is being sensed by changing finger position or grip pressure is only relevant during some portions of the game and not others. "

"Further, each of a plurality of one or more touch sensitive panels of the game controller may be reconfigured by the game console based upon a game being played. Because each game being played may have particular gaming input requirements, the configuration of the touch sensitive panel may be required to be customized for the particular game being played so that the gaming input is most relevant to the particular game."

"Moreover, a configuration of touch panel functions may be based upon the orientation of a controller. "

"In another embodiment of the present invention, game controller and game console functionality is merged into a single device, i.e., all-in-one video game platform. This device will also include a display that user views when playing a game supported by the device. The teachings described herein as being jointly performed by a game controller and game console may be accomplished by such a single unit device. "
The images are actually a little boring - it's the flowcharts that are interesting to me, but they are also pretty much summed up in the contents of the patent.
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Here's a link to the original post. Here's a link to the patent.
 
Nintendo, I realize that you've lost a ton of young customers to IOS and Android gaming, but just because those platforms don't have hard buttons doesn't mean that bringing the same restriction home will bring those customers back.

Interestingly one of the podcasts I listened to recently had a host talk about how he had some kids over, to visit his kid, I think, and how they all went nuts for 3DS and traditional games after being segregated in the mobile game space for a good while now.

Compete in the mobile space where it makes sense, don't try to move mobile functionality (restrictions) into the home console space.

EDIT: Lol I called Nintendo Apple.
 
bachikarn said:
You make it seem like the only way for Nintendo to innovative is through gimmicky controllers.

Some people don't want Nintendo to stagnate. They just wish the innovations were in gameplay. Like not making 4 NSMB games in a relatively short time frame.
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How does time work?
 
DownGrader said:
I was saying that, while there are many valid reasons to dismiss full-touch controls on a console, the "worked fine for decades" argument is lazy and counter-innovative in general.
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The "because it's innovative" argument is lazy and counter-intuitive. It's not even innovative when you already have phones in the market with touch controls that can also use full-buttoned controllers that are probably far more powerful than what Nintendo has in mind for their next handheld.
 
oreomunsta said:
Who said "I want a game controller shaped like my TV remote, and with a separate attachable control stick" before the Wii came out?

There was no market desire for that, but the Wii became one of the best selling consoles of all time.
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And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system. Even on the Wii there's only a handful of games at best that really shine with the device, virtually every other game suffered for it or was at best passable with that control scheme.
 
Steel said:
The "because it's innovative" argument is lazy and counter-intuitive.
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Well, I wasn't saying it isn't. Absolutes and extremes are bad in general.

Enduin said:
And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system.
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VR controllers clearly took a lot of notes from Wii Remote and Nunchuk, and they are used a lot in Wii U games as a secondary controller (incl. for asymmetrical multiplayer).

"A novel device for its time" is probably Wii Balance Board. Now that's a controller which completely faded away.
 
Enduin said:
And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system.
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Motion controllers with two discrete devices, one held in each hand, is the de facto standard for the first generation of VR.

This wasn't a thing in gaming before Wii.
 
Enduin said:
And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system.
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Most controllers don't make it past their generation, especially Nintendo controllers. On top of that, the Wii remote may not have been evergreen, but the success of it and the console it came with certainly helped shaped Nintendo's current game making strategy. They're constantly using motion in games where it may not be necessary. Sony even went as far as making their own version of the control during the Wii hype days. Now, that company is using said controller in their big VR push.

I'd say that it was very much an important controller design and technology.
 
GustyGardens said:
Most controllers don't make it past their generation, especially Nintendo controllers. On top of that, the Wii remote may not have been evergreen, but the success of it and the console it came with certainly helped shaped Nintendo's current game making strategy. They're constantly using motion in games where it may not be necessary. Sony even went as far as making their own version of the control during the Wii hype days. Now, that company is using said controller in their big VR push.

I'd say that it was very much an important controller design and technology.
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So does that mean that galaxy games get regular controller interface... or are the games lost forever?
 
KingSnake said:
Depends on the actions available and how much touch control integrated the game is.

Plus it would be much easier for a child holding the controller.
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It would be cool if the developer allows us to customize where the buttons are on a game by game basis. Also if there are different button sets available. Possibilities are endless
 
LegendofLex said:
Motion controllers with two discrete devices, one held in each hand, is the de facto standard for the first generation of VR.

This wasn't a thing in gaming before Wii.
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That's been an assumption for VR since the 80s, the Wii didn't introduce that idea at all. Motion controls outside of VR is still a dead avenue, especially for Nintendo.
 
James Scott said:
All playable with an analog stick. If this is real it seems pretty likely that the analog sticks are fairly new/different since they look so strange. Again, we don't know how this is supposed to work but Nintendo wouldn't release a controller that's incompatible with their mascot franchise
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I can't tell what would be worse--controlling 2D Mario with an analogue stick or with a haptic touchscreen D-Pad. Both of them make my gag reflex put in some work, so they have that going for them.
 
Enduin said:
And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system. Even on the Wii there's only a handful of games at best that really shine with the device, virtually every other game suffered for it or was at best passable with that control scheme.
Click to expand...

The Wiimote's success and accesibility fired the Wii to be one of the fastest selling consoles of all time. Not to mention it directly influenced the creation of Kinecxt and the Move and now VR is using similar controls.

Sure the games thing is I guess subjective but, I think saying a "handful" of games use the controller well is wilfull ignorance on your part.
 
Enduin said:
And the Wii-mote is where now? It was a novel device for its time, but it failed as a new standard or even worthwhile secondary device in Nintendo's own followup system. Even on the Wii there's only a handful of games at best that really shine with the device, virtually every other game suffered for it or was at best passable with that control scheme.
Click to expand...

If Nintendo kept on with the Wiimote, console after console, it would have just developed a new standard to stick by - kinda defeats the purpose of exploring new ways to interact with games.

The issues with the Wii's software library stem from Third Party's inertia in adapting the latest and greatest games to Nintendo's control scheme, and Nintendo's decision to release a relatively underpowered console. Despite the lack of graphical and processing horsepower, Nintendo showed through its First Party software that games of high quality could still be created on its platform.
 
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