MilkyJoe
Member
Not tiny
NX Controller Rumor [Up5: Original was fake, and thus this is too]
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Not tiny
EatinOlives
Member
Agreed. Physical keyboards still exist for this reason, because touch-typing relies HEAVILY on the user being able to "feel" the keys. The F and J keys very frequently have a little nub on the key so you can feel that nub and you know you're in the standard hand position without having to look at the keyboard. Tactile feedback is incredibly important, and no on-screen touch keyboard solution can fully replace it.
It's the same with gaming. Think of it as "touch typing" but for a far smaller set of "keys". You're still relying on the tactile feeling and feedback of physical buttons to remind you where your fingers are and for you to remember which buttons do what. Sure, touch seems fine for some games, but much like on-screen virtual keyboards, on-screen button prompts aren't a catch-all replacement. Nintendo would have to be monumentally stupid to think it's a good idea, which is why I don't think they'd get rid of buttons.
Oh I agree, Nintendo has been with touch since the DS so I don't expect them to remove it. But I don't expect them to replace buttons with touch either. They've shown time and time again how much they value physical buttons/sticks/sliders/nubs despite their systems also having touch. They know touch can't replace buttons in their entirety.
DownGrader
Member
If measurements are correct, this controller is the same size as Wii Classic Controller, maybe even bigger.
Parapraxis
Member
I have no words....
Multiple things can be reflected at once lol the reflection is of the top of the monitor and ceiling, you don't know how angles work.
dukeoflegs
Member
That's why I think we should try shopping some UIs instead of gameplay footage.
(shamelessly plugging my mock-up for a new page)
I like this.
What about a new Madden game where each player has their plays displayed on the controller instead of shared on screen?
Or a racing game where you have pit options displayed and as you roll down pit lane you can click what you want.
Or a Spy vs Spy game where each player is given different objectives which are displayed on the controller.
I think there are a lot of interesting ideas can be explored with this controller
Because those games are built around the confines of these controllers, how hard is that to understand? They are not inherently the perfect form. People who have used the Xbox Elite Controller for example have attested to the fact that the extra buttons and configurations that the controller provides is liberating and the same could be said for people whom prefer keyboard and mouse or fight-sticks, control methods that have been adapted to work best with certain genres or very much built around those control schemes in the first place, relics of the past such as arcade machines. We have standards in place and I don't mean to come across as if I think controllers are arcane or redundant, controllers have existed in their current form, a form Nintendo popularized many years ago for a reason however the idea that they are things that should not be changed can be seen as worrying, instead it just excites me.
Graphics Horse
Member
To be fair there's two bigass nubs on there already.
That's why I think we should try shopping some UIs instead of gameplay footage.
(shamelessly plugging my mock-up for a new page)
This looks good, though it needs a few buttons on the UI display as well. It's more like what I imagine though.
I don't see why, they didn't really iterate on what they did with the Wii with the Wii U. I think the best way to keep legacy support would just be for the system to allow you to pair a Gamepad with it, and then for Nintendo to sell Gamepads separately.
I don't think it makes a lot of business sense to limit how they design their controllers just so that they can continue to support features that were present in their least successful console of all-time.
Isn't that precisely what the Wii U promised? Not much was realized.
I think this prototype (real or fake) is super interesting; especially with that Zelda UI mockup
Dunno why you're quoting me... I want physical buttons and my post asks why they couldn't have physical buttons and still have them have contextual displays around then and display the screen through them.
The Wii U Game Pad has a standard button layout, yet certain games such as Smash have better button layouts on other controllers. With this you could change the buttons to their smash configuration when you play smash. And fighting game pads are very different from standard layouts, and you can put that on the screen. They could make new button layouts that you've never imagined that are optimized to the specific game.
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I wonder if the cradle might have buttons on it. They could have transparent buttons that go over the screen and feel like normal buttons.
MilkyJoe
Member
You would have to hold it between thumb and finger. Look at the ear bud for perspective.
EatinOlives
Member
I'm talking about face buttons.
Alcotholic
Banned
These were the things I was hoping for with multiple gamepad support on the wii u, but the console can only handle one gamepad. Hopefully, they can make a console that can at least manage two.
DownGrader
Member
Well, I just literally took everything that was on lower screen of Super Mario 3D Land and rearranged it a bit.
I think we have to see the back of the unit to imagine how to hold it.
Joelstinton14
Member
I would argue that one of the complaints from newcomers to gaming is that controllers can look daunting and intimidating to use. We take them for granted, but i think that is a valid criticism of the gamepad.
I was thinking how many buttons on a controller a game uses it any one time. Out of the 12 buttons (Take 4 away for d-pad, how many are used at any given time?
Shooters - Maybe 4 ? Movement, sights, shoot and reload
Adventure - maybe 4 or 5? Movement, jump/climb , light fight, heavy fight
Driving - 4- Movement, Accelerate, Gas, Brake, Rear view mirror
Sports - actually probably the most complicated of the lot where most of them are used.
But if you offer a controller that has exactly the same functions but removes a lot of stuff you don't need game to game, it makes it look a lot more accessible for a lot of people. So instead of having 16 buttons looking at you, you only have a 4 or 5. And the functions of the button presses may change considering what you are doing, say in GTA you walk past a car, the top button may change to hijack, walk past it and it may continue to be run or something.
There is no way a touchscreen controller that changed button layouts while staring at a tv screen is practical.
The iPad and iPhone have what you are looking for. Perhaps hame on those systems. However majority of Nintendo fans prefer traditional controls over touchscreen.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Crap compared to what? Compared to what we're used to we just get a much bigger screen than usual here.
Lets see if this works, scruffy sketches
This
compared to this
Am I the only one who sees a cuddly panda getting its eyes gouged out here?
If it does come with a clamp on grip, then that would solve that problem, and buttons on that grip (or on the face) would solve the other. Like this mockup:
It's all pure speculation right now, though. We'll have to wait and see.
I'm still on #teamfake, but I've been trying to play some video games with my four year old for the first time and it's interesting.
On the one hand, she doesn't really know where the buttons are, so if I say "press the blue X" she has to look at the controller. On the other hand, once she figures out what a button does in game, she seems to have a pretty good handle on it.
I'm not sure this would actually help, and might actually be more frustrating. It would certainly be more frustrating to me because it wouldn't be as easy to help tell my kid what to do.
I think if I really wanted to make games more accessible to first time gamers, I would make the buttons easier to tell apart. The GameCube was actually a step in the right direction I think. If I had a Big button, a Bumpy Button, a little button, and a fuzzy button (flocked),i think there would be less watching my kid look at the controller in confusion. Buttons need MORE tactical feedback, not less.
Strangely Nintendo is actually worse at this then Sony or MS because they have no colors on their controller buttons anymore. Red/blue/green/yellow is easier for kids than letters.
I could see it working in a handheld better, because of different types of games, and the fact you are actually looking at the controller the whole time.
IMO, they should just revert to a modified Wii Motion plus that puts four face buttons in place of the A button and a d pad on the nunchuck (or scroll wheels). Wii Motion Plus is a lot more brilliant in retrospect than I appreciated at the time, and is actually now one of my favorite controllers. Adding the additional face buttons would make it work with basically everything.
On the one hand, she doesn't really know where the buttons are, so if I say "press the blue X" she has to look at the controller. On the other hand, once she figures out what a button does in game, she seems to have a pretty good handle on it.
I'm not sure this would actually help, and might actually be more frustrating. It would certainly be more frustrating to me because it wouldn't be as easy to help tell my kid what to do.
I think if I really wanted to make games more accessible to first time gamers, I would make the buttons easier to tell apart. The GameCube was actually a step in the right direction I think. If I had a Big button, a Bumpy Button, a little button, and a fuzzy button (flocked),i think there would be less watching my kid look at the controller in confusion. Buttons need MORE tactical feedback, not less.
Strangely Nintendo is actually worse at this then Sony or MS because they have no colors on their controller buttons anymore. Red/blue/green/yellow is easier for kids than letters.
I could see it working in a handheld better, because of different types of games, and the fact you are actually looking at the controller the whole time.
IMO, they should just revert to a modified Wii Motion plus that puts four face buttons in place of the A button and a d pad on the nunchuck (or scroll wheels). Wii Motion Plus is a lot more brilliant in retrospect than I appreciated at the time, and is actually now one of my favorite controllers. Adding the additional face buttons would make it work with basically everything.
Peterthumpa
Member
Wii U has proved that a second screen just for the sake of it is useless and will fail.
The NX controller has to work as a standalone device. This is how they will really sell it. Another second screen idea wouldn't make any sense.
Alcotholic
Banned
Honestly, I like the concept. I don't mind not having a button. I'd prefer them, but having physical analogue controls are a must. The biggest concern I have is the lag between button press and action. Most of the phone games I've played feels like there is some sort of delay. Maybe I'm wrong though.
MilkyJoe
Member
I have no words....
Multiple things can be reflected at once lol the reflection is of the top of the monitor and ceiling, you don't know how angles work.
I'm pretty sure what you are pointing out as monitor more closely resembles a haircut
Graphics Horse
Member
Which the buttons are angled around the nubs in the patent.
But interactivity and feedback will determine how good this is, I have no idea apart from the leaker saying it's like apple's taptic.
James Scott
Banned
Why are there virtual camera buttons next to the right analog stick?That's why I think we should try shopping some UIs instead of gameplay footage.
(shamelessly plugging my mock-up for a new page)
GustyGardens
Banned
I suppose the biggest draw is having a button layout that was tailored for a specific game. A game like Zelda could use the Gamecube look, just like the video shows, but another game like Mario Kart may not even have a need for face buttons. It could allow for developers to come up with a more intuitive way of controlling their games.
EatinOlives
Member
I think there's far too little info, especially from these pictures, for us to tell anything.
I'm strictly talking about the viability of replacing face buttons with touch-based on-screen button prompts and why that's a bad idea.
Again why should the hardcore gamers not be the market and why should the controller appeal to the casual gamer at the cost of superior traditional controllers whole the price of the system will go up for this touchscreen. Finally having to keep looking down at the screen for controls is not intuitive. In fact it's even more confusing. Chasing the smartphone market is not a good idea and a huge gamble. And the likely situation will be casuals won't care and hardcore would be upset which would lead to another Wii U disaster.
MilkyJoe
Member
So what point does it serve without the grip? Even as a handheld it's still ergonomically unsound.
The concept of the Wii U seems to be a pet project they've wanted to implement for a long time.
Also, say what you will, but a touch screen on the controller is amazing and should be standard on all consoles going forward. It is amazingly handy and other controllers feel outdated without it.
DownGrader
Member
IDK, I just rearranged existing controls without thinking much about the actual game. Besides, I kind of forgot this was a stick, and I've imagined it as a single jump button.
I have no words....
Multiple things can be reflected at once lol the reflection is of the top of the monitor and ceiling, you don't know how angles work.
That's a face not a monitor lol.
Nintebdo trying to produce and sell Gamepads to any extent post-Wii U sounds nuts. Emulation is absolutely the better route.
Who knows? That's not for us to figure out right now. It's for Nintendo to tell us...if indeed this is real.
Dead_Pixel
Banned
No. It's currently fake, but is about to become real.
Nope, it's unconfirmed, as it has always been.
James Scott
Banned
It's an analog stick, but I think it'll serve as both better than traditional controllers.
I don't disagree. Personally I think it's a fake.
However, the patents do show grips.
The haircut is being reflected in the monitor and the monitor is being reflected onto the screen. My god, how deep does this story go?
Someone mentioned that the thumb competing for important buttons is an issue that controllers have had to grapple with and I was responding to his post but accidentally closed the window (CTRL + Q instead of SHIFT + Q ugh).
Anyway, what I was thinking was the the stick/nub will really have a clear dual function like the shoulder buttons. These are premium positions occupied by our most agile fingers and it seems Nintendo is experimenting with putting more complex knobs there. That will not only save space on the controller but minimize the need for those fingers to "travel".
If we consider a push of the nub to be like a tilt and a press to be a downwards force like that applied to a button, ordinary pushes of the R-stick could control the camera as usual in a 3D game while pressed pushes in various directions could have functions like face buttons. The sceen could label those directions once the nub is pressed. For example, the character could jump when when the R-stick is pressed and pushed up and could ground pound when it's pressed and pushed down while the character is airborne.
I was thinking that octogonal guides like those on the GC controller could be useful when directions have specific functions then I remembered another rumored feature: the motor in the stick/nub. This could be configured in software to make the stick easier to push in certain directions. The player would feel a certain resistance when going across the configured cardinal directions. Such an analog stick could approximate a d-pad quite well and render it redundant.
As for the touchscreen, there is a technology that uses electrostatic forces to modify the friction of the screen in order to mimic various surfaces. This would enable the user to feel texture just by running a finger across the screen without applying a significant force. I don't know if Nintendo is using this but it would be a great way to give the buttons "feel" before pressing them. After applying enough pressure, a beefier motor could give vibrational feedback for a "clicking" sensation.
Anyway, I like the visual design of this leak/fake and I think it's way to early to write if off as non-functional when all we have is pictures of dubious authenticity. This thread (and the Wii reveal thread) proves that most people are devoid of imagination. I don't blame Nintendo for clamming up until they have a fully baked product to show. The only NX controller leak that wouldn't get bashed on neogaf is one that looked exactly like the DS4. Why? Because people have already used it and know how it works.
Anyway, what I was thinking was the the stick/nub will really have a clear dual function like the shoulder buttons. These are premium positions occupied by our most agile fingers and it seems Nintendo is experimenting with putting more complex knobs there. That will not only save space on the controller but minimize the need for those fingers to "travel".
If we consider a push of the nub to be like a tilt and a press to be a downwards force like that applied to a button, ordinary pushes of the R-stick could control the camera as usual in a 3D game while pressed pushes in various directions could have functions like face buttons. The sceen could label those directions once the nub is pressed. For example, the character could jump when when the R-stick is pressed and pushed up and could ground pound when it's pressed and pushed down while the character is airborne.
I was thinking that octogonal guides like those on the GC controller could be useful when directions have specific functions then I remembered another rumored feature: the motor in the stick/nub. This could be configured in software to make the stick easier to push in certain directions. The player would feel a certain resistance when going across the configured cardinal directions. Such an analog stick could approximate a d-pad quite well and render it redundant.
As for the touchscreen, there is a technology that uses electrostatic forces to modify the friction of the screen in order to mimic various surfaces. This would enable the user to feel texture just by running a finger across the screen without applying a significant force. I don't know if Nintendo is using this but it would be a great way to give the buttons "feel" before pressing them. After applying enough pressure, a beefier motor could give vibrational feedback for a "clicking" sensation.
Anyway, I like the visual design of this leak/fake and I think it's way to early to write if off as non-functional when all we have is pictures of dubious authenticity. This thread (and the Wii reveal thread) proves that most people are devoid of imagination. I don't blame Nintendo for clamming up until they have a fully baked product to show. The only NX controller leak that wouldn't get bashed on neogaf is one that looked exactly like the DS4. Why? Because people have already used it and know how it works.
Wandering Robot
Member
What a thread. I'll never look at trees the same way again.
It'd be a wonder to see the NX having fewer buttons if this leak (if true) and the final design are as button-light as the current design is. Obviously the screen can compensate, with or without haptic/tactic buttons (or like that Zelda interface up there), but Nintendo's output after the Game Boy has had a lot of buttons...but I don't know. I could be missing something.
lol
It'd be a wonder to see the NX having fewer buttons if this leak (if true) and the final design are as button-light as the current design is. Obviously the screen can compensate, with or without haptic/tactic buttons (or like that Zelda interface up there), but Nintendo's output after the Game Boy has had a lot of buttons...but I don't know. I could be missing something.
dukeoflegs
Member
Yeah it failed on the Wii U because only one user could use it or because it wasn't fully fleshed or just a bad idea?
If the Nx can support multiple controllers I think design teams would be more serious in support it.
MilkyJoe
Member
You know what I think?
People told Nintendo that the Wii casuals have moved on to playing games on phones and iPads and they have taken that a little too literally with the NX...
DownGrader
Member
Yes, I am imagining them having a softer press too, instead of a strong click.
is it though?
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