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Batman > Superman: Dawn of Justice |OT| Enter the Knightmare

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VanWinkle said:
Question about the Knightmare for people who've seen it. Is there any indication that it's not a reality happening right now (if that's even the case; mostly talking about the WW1 looking Batman from the trailers)? I mean, I guess I don't know much about the scene itself other than it's kind of out there, but I mean is there anything like Bruce waking up at the end of the scene or some kind of indicator or something?
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Its followed up by
Flash's warning at the console, then cut to Bruce Wayne waking up
 
Just came back from the theater. The movie is average +, might be even good like 6 or 7/10. There's little horrible things, but little great too. Sadly they spend too much time in uninteresting things.

Ultron is definitely worst than this. This might be the Marvel equivalent to Captain America The First Avenger or Hulk (the Norton one).
 
I will say this: the movie isn't the spawn of satan. It's serviceable with some little genuine enjoyment.

Although
that Martha moment was pretty dumb.
 
VanWinkle said:
Question about the Knightmare for people who've seen it. Is there any indication that it's not a reality happening right now (if that's even the case; mostly talking about the WW1 looking Batman from the trailers)? I mean, I guess I don't know much about the scene itself other than it's kind of out there, but I mean is there anything like Bruce waking up at the end of the scene or some kind of indicator or something?
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Just have to wait and see ;)
 
I made giant review post in review thread but the movie isn't as awful as some of the critics are making it out to be. It's not great but it's not god awful either.

If you loved Man of Steel then you will most likely love this too.
 
manfestival said:
Did anyone else get the feeling like this movie was going for comic book like cuts of scenes without the effects or attempts to give us a sense of fragmentation like other movies that have done so before?
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Yes, my boyfriend and I thought the pacing was very much like that of a comic. I thought it worked.
 
I had some issues with it but overall it continues my streak of being really into whatever Snyder does. I think that the people that liked Man of Steel will dig it and those who didn't will hate it.
 
My opinion from DCCU Thread:
So. Just back from seeing the movie. I'm not going to gush, but I think it's probably my favourite comic book movie that's been released. It's nothing like we've actually had before, and that's pretty scary.

There are two scenes that should be removed and it would probably be perfect in my opinion. One is just a dialogue scene that made no sense when Clark was talking to Papa Kent on the mountain and the other is the Knightmare sequence plus the following Flash cameo.

Everything else was pretty much exactly what I wanted. I honestly don't understand the editing complaints. I was looking out for the issue specifically and it honestly wasn't something I could see.

The script was pretty great, and by script I specifically mean the dialogue. It's going to sound pretentious, and I'm not using this as a means to elevate the script beyond what it is, but the only way I could describe a lot of it is that it's incredibly Shakespearian in style. I'm not comparing the quality to Shakespeare, it's just the way a lot of it flowed brought a lot of those qualities to mind.

Story itself was pretty good, but the movie was sold to me through its character interactions. Every one of the actors were on their A game, however I felt Gadot was definitely the weakest actor of the film. Lex was great, I was expecting to see him just being this maniacal 2D character from how critics were talking, but his motivations are exactly what I was hoping for, jealous of Superman, wanting to prove to the world that Superman isn't wholly good.

So yeah. I literally do not understand what's gone on with those reviews beyond nitpicking. I was specifically looking for the flaws that they brought up, and barely any of them rang true to me. It was a much lighter film than Watchmen, and no where near as oppressive in tone than made out. It was just ponderous and took it's time with storytelling. Apparently that means it's too dark though. Ah well.
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I think critics are on the wrong side of history with this one.
 
Posted my impressions in the RT thread:

Just got back. I liked it. A lot of it was great, and a lot I would have done differently. Superman wasn't quite as mopey some say(though his moments still needed to seem more heroic than dour, which I think the score had a lot to do with). Its nowhere near as bad as most reviews suggest. Case in point: They say there is no humor or jokes. Sure there are not as many is in Marvel flicks, but there were several times the audience laughed at Alfreds jokes and others. Affleck was great I thought, and I really dug his Batman. My main disappointment is that in a movie called Batman vs, Superman, there's very little Batman vs Superman!

Also can someone help me out here:
How did Lex know their Bruces secret identity? He sets up Bruce to hate Superman by scrawling hate messages on documents, and I assume he knew Clarks from the Kryptonian ship library somehow.
 
Wow

Critics are full of crap. Movie was very enjoyable. Thought it had a lot of great moments. If I had to rate it, probably around 7.5/10.

Ben as Bruce and Batman was fucking perfect. I liked all the main cast also. Wonder Woman was a nice surprise. Good entry into the universe. Yeah the movie dragged in some parts but a lot of movies do.
 
super-heated plasma said:
Also can someone help me out here:
How did Lex know their Bruces secret identity? He sets up Bruce to hate Superman by scrawling hate messages on documents, and I assume he knew Clarks from the Kryptonian ship library somehow.
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I don't think it's too much of a stretch to just assume that Lex Luthor found out before the film started. Bruce's identity isn't such a well kept secret in the comics. Although ironically in the comics Lex has no idea because he thinks Bruce is an absolute idiot and refuses to entertain the idea.
 
Critics were completely on point with this movie. Outside of a good few Batman scenes, the movie was straight trash. Shit action too outside the Batman hand to hand stuff.

Was bored out of my fucking mind and that first hour and a half was just... Ugh!

What a collosal dissapointment.
 
For a little while you wonder where it's going. But not only does it go nowhere, it actually lights the car you're in on fire on the way, while blasting a skrillex song about jesus.
 
Got back from seeing it a little while ago. The movie was fun! Sure if you think about it too hard, parts of it don't hang together, but I was rarely bored. Bat-fleck was fine and Wonder Woman was better than I expected. I never saw Man of Steel so I went into this hearing mostly nothing about how awful that movie was, and seeing this actually made me want to go back and watch it.

I'd give it a B-. It was more fun than Thor 2, that's for sure, even if they were in tryhard territory with their grimdarkness.
 
Just got back from seeing it and needless to say, I have a lot of thoughts on it. Spoilers obviously.

First off, I completely understand why people are criticizing the characters in relation to how they are portrayed in the comics and previous medium, though I personally had no problem with it. One of the primary themes of the film is that both heroes are human, and to be human is to be flawed. Not flawed in the "oh, I can never save everyone" way but flawed as in the "I'm going to make the selfish decision in this scenario because there is no right answer" type of way. I mean, the only reason Superman fights Batman is because it's either him or his Mom, and the only reason Batman wants to kill Superman is because he's been manipulated into a belief structure which is false by the true antagonist of the film.

Here's the thing, both of these themes are WAY more relevant today than this ideal we have in our heads of Batman and Superman somehow being able to avoid those types of decisions or situations. I acknowledge that this concept of Superman being more human than everyone else is endearing, but go look at all of the other media being produced today and tell me how many characters represent that same ideal? I'm pretty sure that the only answers you will come up with are superhero characters, and that's mainly because they were all developed during that golden age.

That said, this movie was fucking DARK. Like....literally and figuratively. The entire film has an underexposed and moody aesthetic to it. Couple that with the subject matter and you've got the most dark and depressing superhero (not comic book) film I think I've ever seen. I can see why some critics were comparing it more to Watchmen, though BvS just LOOKS more bleak.

Coming back to the characters, yeah Batman uses guns, primarily on the Batwing. Is it justified? Not really. Does it matter? Ultimately it's up to you. I likened it to the use of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight, which does indeed have guns on it. He uses what appears to be a grenade launcher to fire those kryptonite shells, and he has a dream sequence where he uses guns. Oh yeah, and he uses the gun to blow up that dudes flamethrower. They could've maybe justified it in some way, but they didn't. The fight sequences with him reminded me of the Arkham games in a good way. The hits felt powerful and he had a fucking gun fired point blank at his dome. Shit was crazy.

The other action scenes were honestly a bit disappointing, mainly because they were so fucking DARK. Low light + fast action = IDKWTFIGO. MoS had better fights because they are clearly visible. This was all at night in the rain. I get it, you're setting a tone, but you could still make up some excuse for spot lighting in the scene, or just brighten it up a bit. Maybe it was a shit theater, I dunno.

I thought the other characters were fine, even Michael Cera. I was sceptical of Batfleck when it was initially announced, but he totally pulled it off.

Ultimately, I enjoyed it, though it certainly has flaws. From some impressions I was expecting a completely jumbled mess. I would not describe it nearly as that bad, but I do think the directors cut should clean up some stuff. I'd probably give it a 7.5/10.
 
mreddie said:
This film isn't a 33% RT, it's not awful but it's not good either, it's meh.

C+
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it's definitely a 33% on RT. that's kind of a fact.
the thing is, on a positive / negative based review site like RT, your review would probably count toward the negatives.

I could see the "critics don't know what they're talking about, this movie was pretty good" reviews coming from a mile away. when your expectations are in the gutter, yes, this movie isn't that bad.

but,...its still not a good movie. it's a mess with some cool parts.
 
I find all these review posts so fascinating. I'm very curious to know the ratio of people who enjoyed it to hated it. My quick estimation is 75/25 or 80/20. The extremely negative reviews and positive reactions on this movie will be discussed a lot going forward. The disconnect is like nothing I've ever seen. I'm seeing it tomorrow so I can finally weigh in.
 
It's actually kind of ridiculous how much is wrong with this movie. It just kept adding to the shit toll.

The first half didn't go anywhere. Like it was entirely forgotten and so poorly handled.

The movie has this serious tone like it's trying to do the 200m dash as opposed to the paltry sprint other movies do but it shits itself right after the starting line. And then it keeps shitting.

I had extrmely low standards going into this movie. They weren't met.
 
I loved it. Reviewers are crazy. I did feel like it was a third movie, rather than a second, if that makes sense.

Note: I loved Man of Steel.
 
cr0w said:
Just got back.

I feel like I must have seen a different movie than the critics or something. As a DC fan from basically birth, I got practically everything here I've ever wanted out of a DC movie.

I'm mystified at the critical reaction.
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Exactly. It has such an amazing feel.

Easily an 8.5 for me.
 
So I'm pretty 50/50 split on the movie. Brief thoughts on it...

+ No issues with the cast. Thought Wonder Woman stole the show and am pretty hyped for her movie which was one of the goals of this movie was to get me excited for that so mission accomplished.

+ Visually it looked great and was really digging the action. It's kinda Snyder's thing so that was expected to be good.

- The editing and pacing for this movie is bad. Especially for the first half. Like it jumps from scene to scene and just came across as janky.

- Story and writing seemed all over the place at times. Kind of like I said with the editing, movie had a hard time gelling together at times.

If I had to score this I said I'm 50/50 on it but I'll bump it to a 6/10. Like I said I'm pretty interested in the Wonder Woman movie and you know I'll buy into the rest of the DC universe for now. Lots of potential but they need to clean up the issues this movie had.
 
Saw this on Monday night *the 21st*, won advance Imax screening here in NY.

I'm just gonna say I loved it, again another person who loves Man of Steel though. Not perfect, but I don't find any superhero film perfect.

I can understand why some people love it and some people hate it (have mixed feelings), but that RT average score being near some of the worst comic book movies of all time... is just insane to me.

edit- god I'm tired
 
Doesn't approach Man of Steel levels (I loved it, many did not, cool) this seemed at times though muddled in story structure and pacing. Batfleck crushed it and in a perfect world this film could primarily focus on him and Alfred trying to deal with the Superman problem. I'd have probably jettisoned the Luthor and Space monster stuff, let the climax play out between the primary characters. That probably inhibits the world building stuff and that must continue forward but man I'll trade in the next six years of Justice League movies for another couple Batfleck flicks.

I hope the response to this film is to get a solo batman movie with Affleck involved in the creative process. I really want more of his angry, I'm killing minions now get fucked mentality.
 
Just got back a little while ago. Left some time to digest it all. Overall I enjoyed it, just like I enjoyed Man of Steel. Yeah, there were some moments of cringe and me shrugging my shoulders, but I've done that in almost every superhero movie I have seen. I'm on the positive side of the line, the set ups in this can turn out to be very cool.
 
Just saw it. I liked it more than Man of Steel. Each scene seemed independent and then put together in a chronological-ish order.
Wonder Woman entrance
was the most hyped I've been during a movie in a long time. Maybe because everything before that kinda dull.

I think if they made a solo movie for Batman before Bat v Sup, it could've been a much better movie.
 
Ok, so...let me preface by saying I loved Man of Steel. Really did. Saw it thrice in theater, preordered the Blu-Ray, which I rarely do. I found that most complaints about MoS were about Superman not being the Superman they knew. I actually appreciate a lot of Snyders work, too. Enjoyed 300 and The Watchmen (not amazing but good), and I've also defended Sucker Punch of all movies.

I went into BvS really hoping to enjoy it, but found it to be an incoherent, incohesive mess of a film. It was much less a movie, and more a mashed together collection of scenes with characters that had thin motivations that either made no sense or were abandoned like a fart in the wind. There are so many times where you have to do really, really dumb mental gymnastics for things to make sense, and parts that just crumble under the slightest bit of scrutiny. I don't demand perfection in a comic book film, nor do I need everything to have levity or be a Marvel style movie. But man were things loose with the plot here, without going into spoilers. At least Man of Steel made sense.

Fights were pretty good, acting was solid, but narratively it just fell apart for me. I can't buy the comic panel argument, because the movie is super inconsistent in its use of that kind of framing and pacing. I can't even begin to imagine the three hour cut of this, as there is at least an hour that doesn't even need to be there as is. It needs tightening, not expansion. This movie just did nothing for me at all.
 
VanWinkle said:
Man, the GAF opinion of this is insanely divisive.
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Well, hopefully those who have issues with it, actually have seen it to know what they are talking about.

Rather than just playing some stupid game by posting negativity for a film they haven't even seen.
 
I posted my thoughts a few places elsewhere but I guess since this is the OT I should chime in.

I hated this movie. I hate its version of Superman and Batman. Hate how the first half is one of the most boring, disjointed pieces of a superhero movie I've ever seen. Hated how confused I was at every single thing that happened and decision that was made. Hated the fact I didn't feel an ounce of emotion, joy, or wonder.

Speaking of Wonder - Wonder Woman's theme was really good.
 
bananafactory said:
Hated the fact I didn't feel an ounce of emotion, joy, or wonder.
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This is how I felt about the Nolan Batman films. I don't think this was much different in that regard. I've just come to terms with the fact that DC films don't want me to feel these things. :(

Well, that's a lie. I did feel joy at finally seeing Wonder Woman.
 
Pau said:
This is how I felt about the Nolan Batman films. I don't think this was much different in that regard. I've just come to terms with the fact that DC films don't want me to feel these things. :(

Well, that's a lie. I did feel joy at finally seeing Wonder Woman.
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Wonder Woman was actually cool. I was surprised. I just wish they had actually like...bothered to introduce her. I don't even think you learn her name except for "Miss Prince"
 
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice has a decent, almost good, flirting with greatness first two-thirds. The cast is really great, fitting their roles with ease. Laurence Fishburne and Jeremy Irons are supporting highlights, and Adams surprisingly isn’t lost in the ensuing madness. Gadot’s Wonder Woman is alright, but barely in the movie to make a mark. Unfortunately, the script does not support the three main characters as we know them. Affleck’s Batman is really neat and has awesome action scenes, but he’s only sorta Batman. Cavill’s Superman is probably the best part except for a few really nagging issues that make him feel like some original character, not Superman. Eisenberg’s performance is one of the best aspects of the movie, but he’s not playing Lex Luthor, he’s playing some Joker-esque sadistic version of him that feels wrong. Despite legitimately wonderful casting, the script lets them down over and over again, despite “cool” moments here and there.

And those cool moments are really great. There’s an astounding Superman montage (although marred by a weird cameo) and Batman’s solo fights are really neat to watch. The highlight of the movie is the Batman vs. Superman fight, with Snyder delivering the exciting visual panache along with being easy to follow. However, the film is surrounded with excess subplots. Holly Hunter and Scoot McNairy have no business being in this movie, and Snyder really needs to get over over-the-top dream sequences (especially considering one of this universe’s Batman’s biggest flaws is showcased in the major dream sequence). The Justice League build-up is incredibly out of place too, with the movie legitimately pausing to showcase origins for members and put production photos of upcoming films on screen. Heck, the film opens with one of the most unnecessary opening credits scenes I’ve ever seen, and then is immediately followed by an actually good “prologue” scene.

This all leads to the final act, which may the worst final act I’ve seen in any blockbuster. Everything becomes CGI and Goyer and Terrio take influence from the worst aspect of Avengers: Age of Ultron. However, the final 20 minutes of the movie makes a fatal mistake that honestly soured the whole movie for me. I obviously can’t say what that is, but rest assured, it’ll make you wonder why they chose to make Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice instead of Man of Steel 2 or just Batman v Superman without the Justice League stuff. This choice reveals that Snyder, Terrio, and Goyer know nothing about what makes these characters truly classic and honestly turns me off from this cinematic universe going forward.

This is a true shame, because I really liked Man of Steel and saw a lot of potential from it, even with its flaws. This film even had moments that made me smile from pure glee. Unfortunately, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice completely squanders said potential and makes you rethink on if you truly want an “edgy” Batman, or a “realistic” Superman. I’d personally rather just have the real Batman and Superman, but it looks like DC Entertainment has no interest in that.
 
super-heated plasma said:
Also can someone help me out here:
How did Lex know their Bruces secret identity? He sets up Bruce to hate Superman by scrawling hate messages on documents, and I assume he knew Clarks from the Kryptonian ship library somehow.
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Probably because he's not a fucking idiot. If you know what Batman's size is + the expensive gadgets and vehicles he has + the location, there's literally only one option.
 
Anth0ny said:
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The last thing I expected was to write a positive review about this film.

Some quick background knowledge about my tastes in superhero films: As you may be able to tell from my avatar, I am a huge fan of the MCU. With the exception of Hulk, I think every MCU film is good (Yes, even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2!) to great (Iron Man and Winter Soldier are awesome films) to GOAT tier (Avengers is my favorite of them all).

Internet logic would tell you that I hate DC and want them to fail.

But, believe it or not, my favorite comic book movie of all time is, in fact, The Dark Knight. My second favorite is the Sony-produced Spider-Man 2. Rounding out my GOAT tier trifecta is Avengers.

I was raised on Batman. The 1989 film was my first comic book movie. I watched the hell out of the other 90s Batman films, and even though going back and watching Forever and Batman and Robin is slightly painful now that I’m a bit more mature, I can still appreciate the cheese factor and ice puns. Speaking of cheese, don’t forget the 60s TV show! Watched the hell out of that too. Of course, there’s the animated series. Possibly the finest incarnation of Batman ever, and I think has only gotten better with age. Last but not least, you have the Dark Knight trilogy. Begins and Dark Knight are bonafide classics that have gone on to irreversibly change the comic book movie world for the better. And despite what GAF says, Rises is still a great fucking film, too.

So yeah, I’m a bit of a Batman fanboy. But it doesn’t stop there. I loved the Superman animated series too. I’m obsessed with Gotham, Flash and Green Arrow at the moment.

The question has to be asked, though: Do I just love everything? Am I incapable of being critical and do I just eat up all of the shit these corporations pump out at the movies?

Enter 2013. Marvel movie after Marvel movie, I come out of the theatre loving, despite many of them being heavily criticized on forums like GAF and on social media alike. Nonetheless, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is firmly established… and DC wants in on some of that sweet sweet pie. Enter… Man of Steel.

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The Man of Steel trailers are honestly some of the best I’ve ever seen to this day. Coming off the Dark Knight trilogy, I was hyped beyond belief for a similar, darker depiction of Superman. I had no reason to doubt that the film would be great going into it. DC was about to start playing with the big boys and kick off their Cinematic Universe!

And then I watched Man of Steel. And I fucking hated it. And I went to watch it again, because maybe I missed something. But no… it was shit. Crushing disappointment in an era where Marvel was not only pumping out banger after banger, but DC just put out three of the best movies I had ever seen with the Dark Knight trilogy! I’d like to elaborate on why I hated Man of Steel, but I haven’t even watched it since that second time in the theatres. It was that painful. I remember it being boring, paced poorly, having a very weak payoff, crappy, unlikable characters, cringe worthy dialogue and story… the list goes on. It was pretty looking, and the fight scenes were cool, but that’s about it.

I was in San Diego for Comic Con in 2013, so turning on my phone and seeing Batman v Superman as the film that would kick off the DC Cinematic universe was literally electric. Probably one of the most exciting announcements I was ever a part of. But the hype soon became… pessimism, as I found out that the same team of writers and Zack Snyder would be behind the film.

They were going to ruin Batman like they ruined Superman. Fuck me.

So the months went by and the announcements started coming out. Ben Affleck. “Well, he was good in Argo, but I don’t know about Batman! He’ll never be able to follow Bale.” Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. “These sound like horrible choices!” Man of Steel had tainted this film before I even saw the first footage. My hype was at an all time low, and I pretty much expected the movie to be shit.

Fast forward to 2014. I went to comic con again, and this time, I managed to get into Hall H on Saturday, where Snyder, Affleck, Cavill and Gadot would appear and show us the first footage EVER of the film, along with promo art for Batman and Wonder Women in their suits. Honestly, everything looked great… but I still couldn’t get excited for the film.

Eventually, though, just weeks ago… the hype got to me. The trailers had enough cool shit to get me excited about seeing fucking Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman together on screen. SURELY they wouldn't fuck this up. SURELY they wouldn’t rehire Snyder just to make another stinker. SURELY they realized their mistakes with Man of Steel and won’t make them again with this film, which will not only be a huge film for them, but the KICKSTARTER for their cinematic universe! Warner Bros had way too much riding on this.

And then the reviews hit. Crushing. Terrible. I braced myself for the worst. Could this be... worse than Man of Steel?

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I’m here to tell you… no.

The reviewers are crazy I tells ya. Crazy. I enjoyed the film from beginning to end. Despite all the criticism of the film being way too “dark”, I actually found myself smiling for a lot of the film!

Ok, obviously the reviewers aren’t crazy. While I haven’t had a chance to sit down and read through some of the more hate-filled writing, I’m not going to sit here and tell you “THE REVIEWERS ARE JUST OUT TO GET DC” or “THEY’RE JUST MARVEL FANBOYS AND HATE ON ANYTHING THAT’S NOT MARVEL”. Remember kids, these are the same people who rated the Dark Knight trilogy in the 90s. As much as I enjoyed the film, I can certainly see where the criticism comes from. Rest assured, this film is very much flawed… I just think the good outweighs the bad. I must have put less emphasis on the things the critics really fucking hated and more emphasis on the stuff the critics couldn’t give a shit about.

Keeping this spoiler free is going to be tough, but here we go. This will be SPOILER FREE, but I’m going to edit this post with FULL SPOILERS in the spoiler thread in a few minutes moments.

Let's start with what I liked about the film, just off the top of my head. I know I’m going to miss stuff (It’s a long film! There’s a lot going on here!) but here we go:

From the first five minutes, there’s more heart in the film than the entirety of Man of Steel. Batman doing heroic shit. YES. I was nodding in approval right from the start. AWESOME. That’s what I like to see. I felt like Batman was an analog to me in this scene, honestly.

Closing thoughts:

I think they did a disservice calling the film Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. I’ve already had friends who disliked the film tell me that they weren’t happy with how short the fight was between Batman and Superman. I think maybe a lot of people went into this film expecting more fighting between Batman and Superman, honestly, as you’d expect from the title. But it didn’t hurt the film much for me. The fighting that did happen between them was great. Imax footage just added to the spectacle. Of course they were going to work together in the end and eventually form the Justice League! And in that, it's the second part of the film's title that they really nail: “Dawn of Justice”.

I really enjoyed the film, and it has left me super excited for this DC Cinematic universe. While it feels different from the awesome MCU, that is not a bad thing. It’s different in a good way. I can’t believe they managed to pull this shit on a Man of Steel hating kid with a MCU Spider-Man avatar. If I’m not living proof that you have to see a movie and judge it yourself despite what critics/everyone says (“The movie is shit! If you didn’t like Man of Steel you won’t like this!”) I don’t know who is. Bring on the R rated director’s cut.

If I had to give it a score after one viewing, it would probably be a 7/10. For reference, Dark Knight Rises is an 8, Begins is a 9, and Dark Knight is a 10. That’s pretty good company, I think. And I ranked Man of Steel a 4/10.

So... you still with me after 3500 words? What did you all think? I'm not crazy, right?

Right?

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Wow incredible write up. Totally feel the same.

I guarantee this film will be a cult following.

Critics really have done another speed racer.
 
Non-spoiler comments - This movie was like a mediocre gumbo , a bunch of stuff thrown in a pot and some hope that the good flavors will cancel out the bad but there's just so much gumbo to eat that you feel ill when you're finished eating. Did you really like Man of Steel ? Do you care about the setup for a cinematic DC universe ? Do you not have a problem with long ass comic book films that inevitably end with an overly bombastic finale ? Then perhaps , maybe you might find some enjoyment in this film. For everyone else, stick with Justice League (the animated series). 2.5/5 if I'm being my most generous.

Spoilers and such follow now :
Batman V Superman : Dawn of Justice is not a good movie. It's also not a terrible movie. It's also not much of anything when it's all said and done. The story structure is technically split into 3 acts , the first dealing with Batmans origin and recent decent into cruelty thanks to the metropolis incident as well as showing us how supes is coping with the aftermath of the very same metropolis incident. The second act is pretty much an escalation of these themes , batman and superman are lost in act 1, but have found purpose in act 2 that ultimately leads to the titular fisticuffs between them. Finally , like with most superhero films , the third act is just the good guys vs the bad guys. Somewhere in that , there is indeed a coherent story line that could have become a coherent plot. Instead, the film is frequently beset with nonsense. I think the problem is twofold - Lex Luthor just doesn't' work as a spoiled rich kid instead of a conniving master mind. The entire idea that he set up the fight between supes and bats is never completely explained , there's no real impetus other than perhaps he's fearful of what supes represents ? I don't know , he's not given any development at all , it's just "hey kids, remember lex luthor ? well uh... here he is again". Seeing as the plot is relying on him to drive the big battle forward it is a major reason this movie falls a bit flat. The second thing is something I've seen brought up a few times - the Justice League pipework , man this movie is just padded with it. People complained about Iron Man 2 because Nick Fury and Black Widow are in it for a few scenes to remind audiences that Avengers is coming but here ? the movie flat out goes out of it's way to show you that Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg and Wonder Woman exist. Wonder woman serves no narrative purpose in this film other than "hey next time we should team up in some kind of league of justice or something". Sure , her fight scenes were kind of cool looking , Gal Gadot looks great in a slinky low cut dress. That's fine, but it doesn't serve the plot at all and she uses up 15 minutes of this over long film that could have been cut out. Not to mention the abuse of dream sequences or "visions". A segment around an hour into the film showcases an apparent nightmare vision of an earth that's destroyed , over run with bug men and superman supporting guards, this is followed by Flash sticking his head through a wormhole to warn batman of more BS that has no real bearing on this films plot. To top it all off, they decided to shoehorn in the death of superman story line in the laziest way possible. To further my gumbo metaphor above - Batman is the Chicken , Superman is the shrimp , wonder woman is slightly rancid milk and lex luthor is salty water. It's certainly still edible but it needed more care and focus. I'm not exactly sure if this whole thing could have been done any better either , perhaps they could have just made Man of Steel 2 ? with Lex Luthor as the villain ? cast an adult and shift all the disdain and fear Bruce/Batman feels over to Lex , instead of an armored batman at the end have an armored Lex. You could still have kryptonite crystals and such , hell, even have the senator sub plot in tact , just cut batman out entirely ... and wonder woman. Then develop Lex Luthor a bit more. So yeah I'm basically saying remove about 75% of this movies story and characters and replace it with something more straight forward. Solve the issues from Man of steel while still addressing them. Then, if it makes money ? hell, go out and make a batfleck movie , a stand along bat fleck movie that doesn't need to rely on the lame "sister city" plot line , just have gotham be on the other coast. No need to make him an angry old man of a hero either that way. Do a wonder woman film after this , make it wholly stand alone. Then, instead of jumping right into Justice League, do a TRINITY movie where all 3 team up to take on ... I don't know , an escaped Lex Luthor or something. Do a second phase of movies after this , Flash, Green Lantern, Shazam! , whatever really , maybe a second batman ? and finish that up with a full blown justice league film. Go ahead after that and maybe do an aqua man , a second wonder woman, whatever. End the story arc with the death and return of superman , maybe over 2 films. All these characters and plotlines need to feel earned and the way WB is handling these properties, nothing feels earned. It's all forced.
 
I just got back from it....it definitely something. The people in the theater didn't care much for it. They were laughing at some of the more serious parts.

I almost fell asleep
 
I fucking hated Man of Steel, and thought this was pretty good. Some major problems with it, but all in all, I'm looking forward to Justice League.

The Knightmare sequence is awesome. It probably should have been cut because it's super confusing and comes out of nowhere, and requires you to know the comics to have even an inkling of why its happening, but goddamn did I love it. Best part of the movie.
 
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