The moment Sanders goes on a racist tirade I'll agree with you. Letting people support Sanders until the inevitable moment he loses, something that cannot be said for Trump, harms nobody. Being a "bully" towards Bernie supporters can go in a bad way.
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
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The moment Sanders goes on a racist tirade I'll agree with you. Letting people support Sanders until the inevitable moment he loses, something that cannot be said for Trump, harms nobody. Being a "bully" towards Bernie supporters can go in a bad way.
I would be more sympathetic to this argument if I wasn't constantly being abused by Bernie supporters for not being a Bernie supporter.
Fine, then don't do that either Bernie supporters. There, now both sides stop. Glad we got that out there.
legacyzero
Banned
"Abused".
Show me an example of this, please. And hold the hyperbole.
This is debate. I expect Hillary supporters to try and change my views, and they should expect it from me. Thats how it works.
Discussion on a discussion board and all that. Id do the same for a republican supporter, too.
I get the same thing in NY.
Honestly can't wait until it's over so we can coalesce and fight a common enemy. Sadly, most of my friends would die before they vote Hillary.
Let me put it this way: Sanders winning Michigan may very well be the political upset of this election. If Sanders were to win the primary, it would be the upset of the century, and no that's not hyperbole.
And as I've said before, even though I think now is a dumb time to call for Sanders to drop out, doing it when he's this far behind isn't nessesarilly bad. People did it to '08 with Hillary and she was only 100 delagates behind. Sanders will end tonight being somewhere around 230-250 delagates behind.
I personally won't call for him to drop out until at least New York, because so far he has eaked out enough victories and close stated to justify staying in. If he had lost Il,Mo,and MI by the same margins as Ohio I'd be calling for him to drop as well.
If he barely wins or looses in NY I will continue to abide by his staying in, but there is a point when it's just so implosible you have to think about the party in the general. Some people think it's now, others later.
Yeah, I already tried that, with little success.
Basically I don't really see much merit in suggesting that "well Bernie is mathematically not able to win" is somehow "bullying." If talking about how many delegates people have and how many they need is considered an attack on people, then I'm not really clear on why this thread even exists. It doesn't seem like there are any acceptable posts to be made in it!
Like, what would a non-"bullying" post by a Hillary supporter look like to you? Could one exist? Maybe we should have separate threads depending on who you want to win the nomination?
And I'll never understand those people. And I'm not talking about people that openly admit they are not going to support the Democrats when Bernie loses with my original complaint. I'm talking about people getting crap simply because they are hopeful Bernie could win. Just let them live in their fantasy for now, heck I'm even a little hopeful I wouldn't be a Bernie supporter if I wasn't, the reality of the situation will happen soon enough and the last thing you want is people voting out of spite, because yes, people can be petty.
It's not bullying to simply say mathematically Bernie cannot win. Fine. Leave it at that. Sorry if you think that is all that ever gets directed towards Bernie supports and it's not persistent. And I'm not even trying to say that all Bernie supporters are somehow innocent and mistreated. Nah. It's just the aggressiveness towards hopeful Bernie supports is outrageous and it accomplishes nothing! Other than you get to be right on the internet and maybe get a back pat I guess.
eyeball_kid
Member
Well sure, but again, how much money would it have cost him in ads and campaign infrastructure to go toe-to-toe with Clinton on her home turf and gain 15-20 points in each southern state? And would throwing X millions of dollars into those races have even guaranteed the results they wanted? No, it would've been a huge gamble to spend a large percentage of your funds on an unlikely scenario. That's why the Sanders campaign made the decision to focus on the north and west. I'm of the opinion that his campaign made the best strategic move they could. Maybe if they had an extra $100M in the bank it would've played out differently.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
If Hilary gave Sanders VP, would that make him her side bern?
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
We're here, but why in the hell would anybody want to engage at length with some of the insanity that goes on in these threads? Like you said, it's just results in a dogpile.
I think I just spent to much time reading r/politics today. Some of the stuff on there makes my blood boil, I know it's a vocal minority. It's just that some people are willing to fuck up the country and Supreme Court and vote Republican just to "stick it to the establishment ". I don't think I can come to terms with people that look at politics with that lens and calls themselves liberals.
theusedversion
Member
I would gladly donate one of my balls to make it happen. The meltdowns would be the likes of which have never before been seen on GAF.
Congrats, Bernie
See, you can't say things like this that have no basis in the real world, and then turn around and get mad when Hillary supporters charge into a thread and #Clapback with facts.
Hillary Clinton is an entire Grand Canyon away from Trump on the scale of "evil" and honesty. Politifact has her at an honesty rating that beats Donald Trump. And there's nothing suggesting that she's any more dishonest than Bernie Sanders, either (especially lately, now that Bernie has had to add more rainbows to his platform to remain viable).
I would think, at this point, both sides know that Hillary has a lead, and Bernie has a deficit.
That being said, the valid points one could make in any thread like this are "well, bernie could gain ground" or "hillary could extend her lead".
Really, it's about celebrating your chosen candidate until they're either out of the race or they're the nominee. I for one even though I'm a Bernie supporter (and couldn't care less if any of HillaryGAF don't come over to the Bern, I'm not judging, we're all Democrats) am enjoying this lovely contest and rooting for the underdog is a real thing. It just so happens the underdog fits a LOT of my current world views.
PoliGAF thread would explode
I have never before read an article critical of the way Sanders addressed (or didn't, in this case) minorities within his own state so this article is somewhat surprising.
More than likely, these people were put behind bars for drug dealing. There is little crime in Vermont but there is a huge drug abuse issue. As with the rest of New England, heroin (and other opiates, like fentanyl) are becoming more and more of a problem every year. Under Bernie Sanders, Vermont decriminalized marijuana. People no longer go to jail for marijuana, they pay a fine. Sanders would like to end the war on drugs. I think that by doing that, we could stop the constant flow of brown and black people into the prison system.
I don't know of any politician who would be pro-reparations. Very few people are.
While I don't believe that income equality will make racism go away, wouldn't income inequality help all people, especially minorities?
It's an article that brings up some questions, yes. I can understand with the frustration of black people/activists in Vermont, but Vermont has very, very few black people there. Really. That shouldn't make them invisible, I do agree with that, but Vermont is already a small state, making the amount of black voters very small. He does need to work on his outreach to the african american community.
I do know that Chittendon county (the county Burlington is in) has taken in a large amount (relative to the size of the county) of refugees as asylum seekers, so good for them.
I think that his policies benefit minorities, but he needs to specifically address minorities.
Night Angel
Member
I think you missed the point of my comment.
You were suggesting people who think Bernie should drop out are trying to stifle discussion, so in response you told them to shut up (and thus attempted to stifle discussion). No one is being "bullied" here.
Reddit and other websites full of young white male progressives fell head over heels in love with Bernie Sanders. Some reacted poorly to the surprising development that young white males on the internet were coalescing behind the more leftward candidate, outflanking them on the progressive end of the spectrum, and doubled down against their chosen candidate because of disdain for those communities...behind the less progressive (comparatively speaking) candidate, oddly enough.
Tesseract
Banned
you can't stifle a stifle tho
Actually I wasn't even addressing people saying that Bernie needs to drop out in my original point. And I'm not telling anybody to shut up actually. I'm asking people to consider the weight of their words. Maybe be a little nicer.
Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. People can carry on the way the are now. I'm sure it will help Hillary somehow.
It's true, I checked MTG
BreezyLimbo
Banned
On that note, it's like...it's like she's a 'Queen'(Yes, I know they call her that unironically) picked by God and that there's no way she can lose.
It's like..that type of attitude is sick. It's a defeatist attitude. There should never be a politician that you automatically align with-In the perfect world, every politician would have to win their votes, not be 'chosen' and have a flock automatically align to them. It's disgusting to see.
You always nail it, man.
a) People are saying that she's not going to lose because all the data says she's not going to lose
b) The idea that people are only going with Hillary because they're lazy is gross and ridiculous
I voted Obama in '08. I would have been open to another candidate. That candidate was not Bernie Sanders.
Because this never happens with Sanders, the ONLY true candidate.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I just want to make sure. You're saying Hillary had the support of these other minority groups basically out of spite because young white male progressives supported him first? Or did I read that incorrectly?
GAF had an informal thread on the diversity age and location of the members, and most tended to be young white and male. That's why I didn't mention it. GAF may be more diverse, but it's not that much more diverse.
I don't think it's distain for Sanders supporters that did it. Sure, that may be a reason, especially later on, but I doubt that's the primary reason. Another reason I've thought of is that a lot of people on GAF love Obama, whom Hillary is campaigning on continuing his policies.
Furthermore GAF is strictly moderated so a lot of the Clinton conspiratorial stuff was stamped out, and even before Clinton ran people on GAF tended to like her, something that couldn't be said for a lot of reddit.
Again I'm just suggesting why this is. Your guess is as good as mine, but I don't think too many GAF members support Hillary out of spite.
See, when I read things like this I wonder- Have you actually gone through the math?
I mean, she basically can't lose at this point. It's a wrap.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I see it alot more with Hillary supporters, if that makes you feel better. I don't see any Bernie supporters(On GAF atleast) saying 'Celebrate tonight, she's already won anyways[sic]'.
Bernie supporters know he's the underdog and has to somehow miraculously win every state in a row, Hillary supporters have already accepted that she's the God-Queen and the victor, counting their eggs before they've hatched so to speak.
Oh, I guess I should elaborate that I mean the general election in...general. She's not President yet(And she's likely the Dem nominee, that point I agree with.)
That's what it read like to me.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Reddit, home of true progressive thought and discussion like /coontown and/Ferguson
Wafflecakes
Member
That's what it sounded like to me too.
Stupid minorities. Always ruining everything.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The Hillary supporters are so arrogantly confident of her inevitable coronation as Queen of America that they really feel like they need 0% of Bernie supporters' votes to win the general. I mean according to them none of them really vote anyways so they are irrelevant!
Leona Lewis
Banned
Not solely. I think it's an obvious contributing factor to some posters here. The discourse here during the "Bernie is cool but the supporters..." days of primary narratives told the story well enough.
Edit: as full clarification, the posts solely reference a few Internet message boards, not some commentary on the American voting electorate.
Your reading of my post is incorrect and the implication unappreciated.
What does the math say right now? Is it still at 58% of remaining delegates needed for Sanders?
Night Angel
Member
I'd question your deductive reasoning skills if you actually think this is an obvious conclusion to make.
Like, you somehow see this as more likely than people just not agreeing with Bernie.
theignoramus
Member
As many racial blindspots as Sanders had, he wasnt the one taking campaign financing from an industry that profits off the over incarceration of Black folk. Glad she walked that private prison money back, but like most things with Hillary, one never knows if she makes decisions based on a moral principle or pure political calculation.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Sorry for being lazy but I'm in Asia now and only on mobile and have no idea what time it is now in the US. Are there results? What happened? I glanced at someone asking about what happened to the aloha? Did something happen in Hawaii?
I don't know how you interpret that as envy of Bernie's white male support. It's more annoyance directed at the more vocal sect of his base who, until recently, seemed to attack anyone who expressed support of Hillary. As a black voter in Philly, I also got a lot of "how could you support Hillary being black? You know...mass incarceration bruh."
So Benji then.
Wafflecakes
Member
No. That is pretty much exactly what your post says, that minority groups "doubled down" on Hillary, not because they like her or her policies, but because white guys coalesced around the good candidate first.
You may not have meant it that way, but that is fairly clearly what it said. So far 3 people commented on reading it that way, so it is not like I am the only one who saw it.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Hawaii results take a lot longer to come in today because their schedule is later.
GoldenEye 007
Member
GAF and Reddit are meaningless. There have been enough nationally respected polls that show Hillary supporters would support Bernie if he got the nomination or Bernie supports would support Hillary if she got the nomination. Hillary or Bernie will get much more than 0% of votes from the opposite camp.
And given the current reality of the race, Hillary is quite in line for the nomination. She has a greater lead today than Obama did during his 2008 race, no? It should be expected that people will act as if she is the nominee. The math and results support that.
But you just literally said "not solely?" Meaning that at least some of my reading was correct. You also just said it was/is a contributing factor.
Besides that, I highly doubt that. You'd also need to prove statements on a forum translates to any meaningful vote in a polling booth. And there is a good chance the disdain isn't because of early Bernie supports being young and white, but instead coming off as condescending and with the thought minorities don't know what's good for them. Like is seen plenty of times from the Bernie camp.
A candidate I can't trust not to reduce social justice issues to economic issues is not, in my view, a more progressive candidate. This might help you understand why your analysis is so incorrect.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
CNN right now:
BREAKING NEWS
Washington and Alaska break for Sanders; Hawaii still to come
Takeaways from 'Western Saturday' Bird lands on Sanders' podium
I love how the bird is part of the breaking news.
BREAKING NEWS
Washington and Alaska break for Sanders; Hawaii still to come
Takeaways from 'Western Saturday' Bird lands on Sanders' podium
I love how the bird is part of the breaking news.
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