Delegates, not votes.
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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Delegates, not votes.
Where are the results!?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Are you saying low information voters don't exist?
State delegates.
So, half of Alaska?
Someone's excited!
Harsh, lol
You Are Viewtiful
Member
No one lives in Alaska or Hawaii.
theignoramus
Member
Or just ignore reddit completely. I like the militant brothas @ theColi.
It's not a talking point, it's my actual life experience. I was saying that I didn't trust Bernie on intersectional issues before Hillary Clinton ever mentioned it. You can look at my post history if you don't believe me!
This kind of argument by asserting that the other party is being disingenuous is the kind of shit I get tired of dealing with all the time in these threads.
I don't think there is necessarily that much daylight between the positions they've described.
I just don't trust Bernie to actually carry them out. Based on his campaign, his campaign's tolerance of the worst behaviors of his supporters, and his history as a Vermont senator, I believe that he still believes that racial issues are mostly class and economic issues. I think the stuff he said in the first half of his campaign was what he really believes, and the stuff he's said since then in an attempt to demonstrate his social justice bona fides is mostly just politics, because you can't be competitive in a Democratic primary if you're not an intersectional leader.
I was wondering about this too.
Joeys_Rattata
Neo Member
to make it clearer on the seemingly low turnout based on raw numbers:
In Caucuses, a precinct votes on who they want to be the nominee. That precinct is allocated a certain number of delegates. My precinct, for example, was allocated 5. After the final vote is tallied, the delegates are allocated to match the results. i.e. with 10 delegates, if Bernie won ~80% of the vote and Hillary won ~20% of the vote, it'd be 8 for Bernie and 2 for Hillary.
Then those 10 delegates cast their vote for the nominee. That 10 you're seeing isn't the raw number of voters, it's the number of delegates that precinct was allocated. The raw number was much larger.
So in Alaska, about 600 delegates cast their vote, but those 600 represented a much larger number of people.
In Caucuses, a precinct votes on who they want to be the nominee. That precinct is allocated a certain number of delegates. My precinct, for example, was allocated 5. After the final vote is tallied, the delegates are allocated to match the results. i.e. with 10 delegates, if Bernie won ~80% of the vote and Hillary won ~20% of the vote, it'd be 8 for Bernie and 2 for Hillary.
Then those 10 delegates cast their vote for the nominee. That 10 you're seeing isn't the raw number of voters, it's the number of delegates that precinct was allocated. The raw number was much larger.
So in Alaska, about 600 delegates cast their vote, but those 600 represented a much larger number of people.
boiled goose
good with gravy
So basically it comes down to "feelings" not any actual policy position differences. Got it.
From my life experience, I see Clinton as being tough on crime, not pro drug decriminalization, pro establishment people that are disastrous for minorities like
Rahm Emanuel for partisan reasons, not to mention worse on economic issues that benefit the rich while hurting the poor.
It is mind blowing to me that you feel Hillary will be better at fighting for the powerless than Bernie.
vicissitudes
Banned
hodayathink
Member
Not enough that they actually sway elections. Low information voters do exist. But most of the type of people who most would consider to be "low information voters" actually don't vote at all. The people that can't be bothered to learn about the candidates at all usually can't be bothered to vote. And the people who are deemed to be "voting against their best interests" usually do so because there's an issue more important to them than whatever you think "their best interest" should be.
Hey GAF
Birdie Sanders new campaign office in Brooklyn...
These people don't look very white to me
Some almost look like they are being forced at gun point though hehe.
Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have nearly identical policy platforms on most issues.
Most disagreements about them are going to come down to who you trust more.
Whenever we discuss campaign finance reform your response is consistently that, sure, Clinton says she'll do something about it, but you don't trust her!
I think a lot of that was mostly true in the past, because that's what was necessary in the past to string together a Democratic coalition. I think she's demonstrated, in this campaign, that she understands what's necessary now to string together a much stronger Democratic coalition.
Keep in mind that I think Hillary Clinton is, by and large, willing to do what it takes to be successful as a Democratic politician. Since today that means fighting for social justice issues, financial regulation, campaign finance reform, and economic fairness, I expect her to do those things! Which is good because that's what I want from a Democratic president.
By contrast, as Bernie supporters have said over and over for months, Bernie Sanders has been the same man running the same campaign for like forty years, and it's a campaign that has never been intersectional, has not well-served the African-Americans in his constituency, has been deeply ineffective at convincing people of color, and has left Vermont the second whitest state in the Union. Why would I trust that guy to protect intersectional issues?
All the arguments about Bernie's long-time integrity and consistency just represent more reasons I shouldn't trust him to change all of a sudden now that he's running for President! Malleability is a virtue in a politician.
I mean, I think Hillary's going to just be better as a president overall, because she's very good at all the required skills, but that's not really the point. I don't trust Bernie to understand the issues or to do the things that the Democratic voters want him to do rather than the things he wants to do.
Keep posting pictures of token minorities and see how that works out for you!
Hey GAF
Birdie Sanders new campaign office in Brooklyn...
These people don't look very white to me
They don't look very black either. Hillary confirmed for winning NY.
eBay Huckster
Member
pardon me if i'm not convinced that a picture containing 9 people in a city of 8 million isn't the textbook definition of tokenism
Posting a picture in order to say "look at all these people of color in this picture who support Bernie Sanders!" is pretty much the literal definition of tokenism.
What's it called to dismiss something instantly based on bias?
Claude Augario
Member
Minority, not endangered species.
googleplex
Member
The fact the Bernie continues to pivot of race toward the evils of Wallstreet.
So as a Blackman I don't trust Bernie to even understand the issues let alone do anything substantial about it. I don't care who he marched with.
For that matter there isn't much Clinton could do about it ether. The President only has so much power in regards to institutionalized racism. To effect any change on a national level would required a House and Congress that would be receptive to the policies of the President. THAT in and of itself makes Bernie less effective this Hillary because Bernie dose exactly fuck all for the down ticket races.
I as a Blackman voted for Clinton for that reason. She has a better chance at willing the general election and helping Democrats retake seats in the mid terms. I'm casting my Vote for strategic reasons rather then altruistic ones. Black folk simply can't afford to do otherwise!
You guys gonna keep calling all minority Bernie supporters outliers if he takes Hawaii?
I live here I'd like to think I have a good idea of the political climate here
http://gothamist.com/2016/03/26/photos_new_yorkers_feelthebern_at_o.php
I am hearing from every Hillary supporter that Bernie cannot get minority voters. Well, not in New York. That may be one picture but it's very representative of the people here who are voting for Bernie. I know people from literally all ethnic backgrounds who are supporting Bernie over Hillary. I'm sorry if this gets you upset but these are my observations of New York City. The five boroughs of New York are feeling the Bern, I can't speak for the rest of the state but Hillary is in trouble here.
Also I'm not white so you can't use your tokenism bullshit on me sorry babe
eBay Huckster
Member
i mean, you might have a good idea of NYC's political climate, but that doesn't change the fact that you literally posted a single picture of less than a dozen people and pointed to it as a solitary example of how the city's POC are leaning
Leona Lewis
Banned
Not only that, but a sample of paid/unpaid Bernie workers isn't necessarily representative of your everyday voting José.
Considering the only states he's really won up to this point are white dominated...yeah.
One state doesn't buck a trend, just like his win in Michigan didn't stop him from getting sweeped last Tuesday.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
So.. what you're saying is, the police will stop shooting us if I vote for Hillary? Why didn't someone tell me before?
Ogrekiller
Member
Berniebro
eBay Huckster
Member
though i'm glad we're at least having this conversation about candidates actually appealing to people outside of a white bubble. it could be about a million times worse.
well, no, i'm guessing they're saying "clinton's campaign is at least actually raising money for downballot races so at least with here there's a reasonable chance there will be a sympathetic congress to implement reforms that will eventually result in less police shooting people for existing while non-white"
well, no, i'm guessing they're saying "clinton's campaign is at least actually raising money for downballot races so at least with here there's a reasonable chance there will be a sympathetic congress to implement reforms that will eventually result in less police shooting people for existing while non-white"
If one picture isn't enough for you check out the other pictures in the link and read quotes in the article.
Bernie may not have down well among southern voters but I feel his message has spread more among minority populations in other states like New York and California
His supporters in NYC are a very diverse group, not just white people. I see this everyday. White, black, Latino, Asian, Jews, Muslims, etc
googleplex
Member
Is.. That what you got from what I posted?
eBay Huckster
Member
that's totally fair! i'm just saying i'm not all that convinced by one rally, or even just one article.
(he almost certainly won't lose by southern margins among POC in either state, but at least in NY i don't think the margins will be particularly narrow. Clinton did get elected twice in this state, after all)
DR2K
Banned
Nothing is really going to change the facts that Bernie's landslide wins are in white populates of over 90% and Hillaries landslide wins in states that have minorities. These are the facts of the campaign.
Here we go again. What's the non-biased response to that post, in your view?
Depends on the crosstabs.
Actually, I think you're hearing it from the Democratic primary results. That's where the information keeps coming from!
What gets me upset is constantly having people post "but XXX person of color supports Bernie Sanders, so you're wrong, he's doing a super good job of connecting with minorities" when we're literally having election after election where he loses minorities. Like, great, I respect your life experience, but in turn it's your job to understand that it may not be representative. And, frankly, if you're working for Sanders's campaign, probably you should work on understanding that! It would be a big help to him.
Hey, man, you not being white doesn't retroactively make your post better quality!
Completely understandable. But for the other poster to disregard it as tokenism is really misguided.
It's not like I searched through pictures to find one with the most minorities. His voter base in NYC is already so diverse that literally any photo would suffice. That was the first one I saw.
eBay Huckster
Member
as an aside to all of this, i'm legitimately surprised that out of everyone on my friend list on facebook, i'm the only one who posted about tonight's caucuses in any capacity a day after everyone fell over themselves to post #birdiesanders memes
Sanders had huge losses in the south, yes I know. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have support with any minorities. Take for instance, Washington today. Though there is no specific data on it yet, he clearly must have received a helping hand from the Asian population in and around Seattle.
Clinton's name along is HUGE in the south so the landslide losses aren't unexpected.
It is not just "XXX" person of color here. It's not just a few people here, it's many. Many. When New York votes, I'll admit I have no idea where the rest of the state goes, but check out the five counties of New York City. Sanders is gonna sweep here, and guess what? New York City isn't a very white city at all.
eBay Huckster
Member
i'd actually wager that upstate would go for him outright before i'd wager that Clinton loses the City
DR2K
Banned
Sanders is going to get trounced in New York.
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