Star Ocean 5 character gets less-sexy underwear 'in Fear of Western Criticism'

For me over-sexualized characters and teen protagonists just makes a game less immersive and difficult to take seriously. It's a shame because there are usually a lot of great gameplay mechanics I would enjoy in these type of games if it had a more mature approach to character design, story and dialogue.

If I want nudity there are plenty of sources for that..
 
Angry YouTube pundits are probably frothing from the mouth right now over all the clicks they'll get from their next outrage video about imaginary sjw outrage.

Yelling at a camera about feminist while wearing crappy facial hair seems to be a weirdly lucrative niche. I'd probably do the fake outrage thing myself if I didn't already have a career.
 
Her spells breathes through her skin, guys.
I, for one, am ashamed of my words and deeds.

The Japanese reaction doesn't surprise me at all, given the cultural fetishes. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they changed Greenilocks' design either, not because it's too revealing but rather because it looks remarkably stupid.
 
What we see as misoginystic and sexist here, is different there. I won't say it's right or wrong as I never like to choose sides on these discussions as every culture has different values, but I always try to "get in their shoes" in every culture. Be it eastern, western, etc.

And Japanese men certainly love and care about their women, perhaps too much. This probably doesn't happen that much in the more urbanized areas anymore:

They won't let women do certain things not because of misogyny, but because they don't want to see them get hurt.

It's the men that after getting paid at work, get home and the first thing they do is give their money to the women so they can control the family expenses.

this shit is like the square enix meme coming to life
 
Well that's the real question there, isn't it? Does the pervasive objectification of women in Japanese games affect how men view women in Japanese society?

simply put?no
objectify the other gender during "fantasies" is normal and it's done in every culture..again just look at the twilight series and how deep as a puddle are its male protagonists,usually defined just by how bad they want that "unique snowflake" that it's the female lead
that's fanservice for the female demographic
relationships are hard,especially for teenagers,objectifying the other sex makes everything simplier and thus the fantasy better

just look at how the usual movie romance goes..it stops at where usually the real problems arise,the beginning...every couple has it's "honeymoon" period at the beginning,and it's when time passes that problems arrive,it's those moments that you have to put effort to make a relationship work..and it's mostly the major part of a relationship..but when fantasizing about it,we decide to not consider that part,because we want only the good stuff in our fantasies

same here,it's a fantasy that avoids the problematic parts (aka,actually having to interact with a real human being with her own needs,problems,quirks)and goes straight for the appealintg part (aka the female,in this case virtual,body)

of course that's a generalization valid for only a part of the demographic..there are people who are totally able to have healthy relationships with the other gender and still like to see a pretty ass on the screen while playing..and again,that has nothing to do in how they perceive the opposite gender,that comes from their culture,what they were taught by family and society,their experiences,what their peers consider acceptable or not.
it's there that you need to intervene if you wanna change stuff,focusing on cemsoring panties on a videogame it's wasting a lot of effort for nothing when you could actually do something for the issue
 
Why change the panties into a diaper, when you have the checkerboard lady around?
The western JRPG fans wouldn't have caused any uproar about her original pantsu, but by changing something so insignificant they sure are making people not originally interested in SO5 talk about a niche game all over the world!
Free advertisement!
 
For me over-sexualized characters and teen protagonists just makes a game less immersive and difficult to take seriously. It's a shame because there are usually a lot of great gameplay mechanics I would enjoy in these type of games if it had a more mature approach to character design, story and dialogue.

If I want nudity there are plenty of sources for that..

xjPi6Th.gif

?
 
What we see as misoginystic and sexist here, is different there. I won't say it's right or wrong as I never like to choose sides on these discussions as every culture has different values, but I always try to "get in their shoes" in every culture. Be it eastern, western, etc.

And Japanese men certainly love and care about their women, perhaps too much. This probably doesn't happen that much in the more urbanized areas anymore:

They won't let women do certain things not because of misogyny, but because they don't want to see them get hurt.

It's the men that after getting paid at work, get home and the first thing they do is give their money to the women so they can control the family expenses.

After reading this I had to check my calendar to make sure it was 2016.
 
What we see as misoginystic and sexist here, is different there. I won't say it's right or wrong as I never like to choose sides on these discussions as every culture has different values, but I always try to "get in their shoes" in every culture. Be it eastern, western, etc.

And Japanese men certainly love and care about their women, perhaps too much. This probably doesn't happen that much in the more urbanized areas anymore:

They won't let women do certain things not because of misogyny, but because they don't want to see them get hurt.

It's the men that after getting paid at work, get home and the first thing they do is give their money to the women so they can control the family expenses.

The problem with Japanese men is that they just care too much.

lolwut
 
And yet this is the same country that has segregated train cars because guys can't keep their hands to themselves.

And the same country where women get forced out of jobs for getting pregnant.

Don't get me wrong, I still want to visit Japan in the coming years, but there's no denying how deep the sexism runs in Japanese society.

I completely forgot about the perverts in trains. It's like when guys throw "piropos" at girls (don't know the word for it in English, but generally it means it's a sexually charged compliment) here, but way worse.
 
Oh well sorry for sticking up for the first amendment and artistic freedom!!!

...you know all these character designs are just pandering to otaku, right? There's no artistic freedom here, it's just cynical marketing.

I'll ignore the silliness of invoking the first amendment in this context.
 
And Japanese men certainly love and care about their women, perhaps too much. This probably doesn't happen that much in the more urbanized areas anymore:

They won't let women do certain things not because of misogyny, but because they don't want to see them get hurt.

That sounds sexist. Just super saiyan. Why are men determining that for them?
 
I completely forgot about the perverts in trains. It's like when guys throw "piropos" at girls (don't know the word for it in English, but generally it means it's a sexually charged compliment) here, but way worse.

"Catcalling" would be the name for the "practice" I believe.
 
I wouldn't of even thought to move the camera to look at a characters panties, let alone dwell on them. Too busy looking at the glory that is Fiore.

The Japan outrage though, while understandable, is way over the top. But I can see where they would be upset that in a way, the game is being censored for them. Just change it for the west if all you received was western criticism.
 
Fanservice is one of the last things I buy a Star Ocean game to begin with. I'm mainly about the the ways one can break the game in ridiculous ways via Item Creation.

I still find it surreal that this sort of thing is an actual problem for this game, then again I admit this was one of the last things on my mind in regards to a Star Ocean game.

There is also the angle of folks who are continuing to blur the lines between what is sexism and objectification.

Even still when some folks in this topic even admit they're not going to buy the game, arguing a point on something they don't have a vested interested in to begin with. So why would it effect them if they weren't going to be the intended audience? That just comes across as strange to me.
 
Sexism doesn't have to come from a place of malice to still be sexism.

Also, I am super fucking tired of this relativist nonsense being used to excuse cultures of problems. I grew up in Malaysia, where there are a ton of social issues, from LGBT rights to racism to freedom of and from religion. It is NOT an excuse to say, "Oh, that's just their culture," and pretend it's not a fucking problem.

"Perhaps too much" lolwut

Japan sounds pretty sexist, from what you just wrote. Women not allowed to think or act for themselves, would be compared to Saudi Arabia of all places.

this shit is like the square enix meme coming to life

After reading this I had to check my calendar to make sure it was 2016.

The problem with Japanese men is that they just care too much.

lolwut

That sounds sexist. Just super saiyan. Why are men determining that for them?

This is attracting too much attention so I'll just stop. I don't want to get banned for things i'm not even in favor or against of. It seems at least I made some people laugh.

Apologies if I offended someone.
 
This over that many comments? Can't we, as Neogaf players, respond and say hey, it's alright. Don't make any changes? Eeesh. There are far worse things out there to be criticizing. Didn't Bravely Default get this kind of treatment too?
 
It's ironic that the gaming industry wants people to take them seriously, but its temperament is so anemic that it censors itself at the same time. Panty shot, woo hoo. Reminds me of the release of Nabokov's Lolita. Initial reception was as such that it didn't look beyond the surface of what the book was about. Puritanical sensibilities crushed its reception and took some time before cooler heads prevailed.

Not saying that SO5 will be the bastion of high-art (no such thing, but you know what I mean), but stinging every effort by those to simply create is not a good way to have your industry thrive and freely express itself.

Or, you know, just don't play it if you don't like it. There are far, far worse things in cinema and literature if you are itching to get incensed about something.
 
Bingo

Part of the reason I have no respect for the people being outraged. They are hilariously blind to how often they get compelled to buy crap games to stick it to some imaginary feminists.

I mean, avatar quote and all that, but that's not really what happened with Dragon's Crown. It's also not a crap game by any measure.
 
It seems rather silly to me to censor a teenage characters sexy underwear when I can literally boot up Mortal Kombat X and tear a persons head off and bowl with it in full HD.

I mean really.
 
This over that many comments? Can't we, as Neogaf players, respond and say hey, it's alright. Don't make any changes? Eeesh. There are far worse things out there to be criticizing. Didn't Bravely Default get this kind of treatment too?

This is a fairly inconsequential change that you would have to actively look for, BD changes are in an entirely different league.

I find it hilarious that they change Miki and leave Fiore untouched. They have got to be trolling
 
It seems rather silly to me to censor a teenage characters sexy underwear when I can literally boot up Mortal Kombat X and tear a persons head off and bowl with it in full HD.

I mean really.

American culture is fucked up.

Blood & Gore: fine

Nipples and sex: please no
 
It's ironic that the gaming industry wants people to take them seriously, but its temperament is so anemic that it censors itself at the same time. Panty shot, woo hoo. Reminds me of the release of Nabokov's Lolita. Initial reception was as such that it didn't look beyond the surface of what the book was about. Puritanical sensibilities crushed its reception and took some time before cooler heads prevailed.

Not saying that SO5 will be the bastion of high-art (no such thing, but you know what I mean), but stinging every effort by those to simply create is not a good way to have your industry thrive and freely express itself.

Or, you know, just don't play it if you don't like it. There are far, far worse things in cinema and literature if you are itching to get incensed about something.

There is a very big different between making a work that's specifically about sexuality and young people and sneaking in a way to look at a girl's underwear into a work that's about something completely outside the scope of sexuality or young girls, and in each case the appeals to remove that sexually charged content mean very different things.
 
It's ironic that the gaming industry wants people to take them seriously, but its temperament is so anemic that it censors itself at the same time. Panty shot, woo hoo. Reminds me of the release of Nabokov's Lolita. Initial reception was as such that it didn't look beyond the surface of what the book was about. Puritanical sensibilities crushed its reception and took some time before cooler heads prevailed.

Not saying that SO5 will be the bastion of high-art (no such thing, but you know what I mean), but stinging every effort by those to simply create is not a good way to have your industry thrive and freely express itself.

Or, you know, just don't play it if you don't like it. There are far, far worse things in cinema and literature if you are itching to get incensed about something.

How old are you? 70s? You act like you have a first-hand account lmao.
 
Bingo

Part of the reason I have no respect for the people being outraged. They are hilariously blind to how often they get compelled to buy crap games to stick it to some imaginary feminists.

It really bothers me how you all automatically assume people that are against such practices,simply because they feel their personal chees cake is take away... I do not buy games for fanservice, I don't even really enjoy fanservice in games, it usually distracts and takes me out of the game, and unless done really tastefully, it usually feels uncomfrotable, like I walked on people dry humping in what they believed was privacy...

In this particular case, I find the girl in question to look like a lovecraftian abomination, why would I personally care for her panties?

I can get my cheesecake online when I need porn, but that is NOT THE POINT

What I don't like is hindering of artistic expression via societal pressure, driven by what I believe are limiting and regressive attitudes.

Yes, it's easy to dismiss this with something like "teenage girl's choise of panties is art? nonsense, you pervs are ridiculous, but that would be not seeing trees for the forest.

It's kinda like this: If you ban all movies, because 99% of them are bad, you won't get any more good movies as well.

Same here. You can't expect a game that explores sexuality and such contents in a dignified and meaningful way, if you just silence any and all expression of it, just because 99% of it is doomed to be pandering crap.
 
It really bothers me how you all automatically assume people that are against such practices... I do not buy games for fanservice, I don't even really enjoy fanservice in games, it usually distracts and takes me out of the game, and unless done really tastefully, it usually feels uncomfrotable, like I walked on people dry humping in what they believed was privacy...

In this particular case, I find the girl in question to look like a lovecraftian abomination, why would I personally care for her panties?

I can get my cheesecake online when I need porn, but that is NOT THE POINT

What I don't like is hindering of artistic expression via societal pressure, driven by what I believe are limiting and regressive attitudes.

Yes, it's easy to dismiss this with something like "teenage girl's choise of panties is art? nonsense, you pervs are ridiculous, but that would be not seeing trees for the forest.

It's kinda like this: If you ban all movies, because 99% of them are bad, you won't get any more good movies as well.

Same here. You can't expect a game that explores sexuality and such contents in a dignified and meaningful way, if you just silence any and all expression of it, just because 99% of it is doomed to be pandering crap.

Your name is "hentailover" though?
 
I never would have imagine but this has climbed high on my "Keep an eye on" list. Very very optimistic. Historically do these offer co-op like Tales games?

I'm fine with the removal of underwear as long as everything still looks this perfect
 
I mean, avatar quote and all that, but that's not really what happened with Dragon's Crown. It's also not a crap game by any measure.

Yeah ok, that's fair enough. Dragon's Crown wasn't my cup of tea, but it looked pretty well made. I had some issues with how the artist responded to the whole affair, but that's for another time and thread.

The main one I was thinking about was DOAX3, a game which sold far more than it deserves thanks to a made up controversy. And no, I'm not calling it bad on account of being an Extreme game, it's bad even by the standards set by that series.
 
I never would have imagine but this has climbed high on my "Keep an eye on" list. Very very optimistic. Historically do these offer co-op like Tales games?

I'm fine with the removal of underwear as long as everything still looks this perfect

"removal of underwear"

whoa there, don't get people's hopes up in this thread
 
This isn't even the first game that Squenix covered up in Japan. I know a couple of costumes in the 3DS version of DQ8 were somewhat extended to cover up some legs, though that was understandable since that's an all-ages title over there.

But yeah, Squenix definitely seems to be really vigilant about this sort of thing these days, like the changes they made to both of the Bravely Default games in the west and what sounded like them taking feedback on Cidney in FFXV (have they even shown her off again since they talked about that?).
 
It really bothers me how you all automatically assume people that are against such practices,simply because they feel their personal chees cake is take away... I do not buy games for fanservice, I don't even really enjoy fanservice in games, it usually distracts and takes me out of the game, and unless done really tastefully, it usually feels uncomfrotable, like I walked on people dry humping in what they believed was privacy...

In this particular case, I find the girl in question to look like a lovecraftian abomination, why would I personally care for her panties?

I can get my cheesecake online when I need porn, but that is NOT THE POINT

What I don't like is hindering of artistic expression via societal pressure, driven by what I believe are limiting and regressive attitudes.

Yes, it's easy to dismiss this with something like "teenage girl's choise of panties is art? nonsense, you pervs are ridiculous, but that would be not seeing trees for the forest.

It's kinda like this: If you ban all movies, because 99% of them are bad, you won't get any more good movies as well.

Same here. You can't expect a game that explores sexuality and such contents in a dignified and meaningful way, if you just silence any and all expression of it, just because 99% of it is doomed to be pandering crap.

I'm sure you think you've made a cogent counterpoint, but this is precisely why I was so dismissive, and even rude, to people angry about this.

In all your high minded talk of artistic integrity and fighting the silencing of expression, you've missed the key point of this whole charade; no one even complained about this. The developer made up a boogeyman in their head and preemptively pointed at the nasty, fictional feminist and got everyone up and angry.

If you want to be angry, be mad at the devs for being so blind to their own audience. Go write angry emails to them about how Senran Kagura can sell without controversy, rather than posting about an imaginary enemy.

Edit: Wait, did you just say you don't enjoy fanservice while being named Hentailover? xD
 
yes, we reached a point where devs actually alter the content before people can even complain.

That's actually what is my problem.

Devs now either change their content , or they say "no it's not going to be sold anywhere else".

I'd sometimes wish they'd just embrace it ( what they thought was right in the first place rather than changing things)
 
There is a very big different between making a work that's specifically about sexuality and young people and sneaking in a way to look at a girl's underwear into a work that's about something completely outside the scope of sexuality or young girls, and in each case the appeals to remove that sexually charged content mean very different things.

I think you missed the point of my post.

You might argue that there is gratuitous sexuality in SO5 by a panty shot. Maybe you're right (at least by some contemporary American standards). What I'm saying is, so what? Is that fact so egregious (in your mind) as to categorically dismiss every other redeeming quality of the game? The cool thing about art is that you don't have to like it. If every artist walked on eggshells so as not to offend, we'd have some pretty milquetoast art floating around.
 
What we see as misoginystic and sexist here, is different there. I won't say it's right or wrong as I never like to choose sides on these discussions as every culture has different values, but I always try to "get in their shoes" in every culture. Be it eastern, western, etc.

And Japanese men certainly love and care about their women, perhaps too much. This probably doesn't happen that much in the more urbanized areas anymore:

They won't let women do certain things not because of misogyny, but because they don't want to see them get hurt.

It's the men that after getting paid at work, get home and the first thing they do is give their money to the women so they can control the family expenses.


That is the most backwards written post ive ever read in my life. Are you an expert on Japanese culture like this guy?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11960243
 
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