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[orochi91]

So why on earth would you consider it now? I seriously don't get this "argument".... You will leave behind the PlayStation ecosystem and all the games you've got to jump aboard PC gaming. Even if you already have a decent gaming PC the cost of a significant upgrade to your rig (a new GPU being the primary option for that) you're looking at about the same cost as upgrading that one component as it will cost to trade in your PS4 and upgradeto the PS4K. Nevermind everything else. And if you need to buy a new gaming PC to get you started then that money can easily buy you a PS4K and PS5 when that eventually comes out which will sustain you in up to date gaming for probably the next 10 years.

To be honest, those saying they'll jump exclusively to PC gaming probably don't care about console exclusives or were probably on the fence anyways. This bit of news probably just pushed them over that edge.

I personally can't imagine not having these systems; there are simply too many games I'd miss out on by ditching consoles.

 

[The God]

Are you talking about exclusively playing on consoles?

I can't relate to that because I've been gaming on both platforms for decades.

My point was that Sony introducing a tiered product line doesn't suddenly invalidate consoles, as some folks in this thread are insinuating when they say stuff like "I'm moving to PC".

Read my edit

So why on earth would you consider it now? I seriously don't get this "argument".... You will leave behind the PlayStation ecosystem and all the games you've got to jump aboard PC gaming. Even if you already have a decent gaming PC the cost of a significant upgrade to your rig (a new GPU being the primary option for that) you're looking at about the same cost as upgrading that one component as it will cost to trade in your PS4 and upgradeto the PS4K. Nevermind everything else. And if you need to buy a new gaming PC to get you started then that money can easily buy you a PS4K and PS5 when that eventually comes out which will sustain you in up to date gaming for probably the next 10 years.

I could see why someone would jump to PC gaming over this. If consoles just turn into a PC environment (upgrades) without PC gaming benefits, I'd rather just get a PC.

 

[amstradcpc]

Imagine the meltdowns if Microsoft let Xbox die and goes with Surface tablets

You are very confident in this thred about a mega powerful XBO..

Is what i took from last claims by Phil Spencer made just after PS4K rumors started, they are going for the sustancial improvements, not minor ones. Could be wrong of course.

Anyway if MS went with Surface tablets even then they would have WAYYYY better CPU

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

There are UHD TVs which don't support 60 hz in 4k resolution, which means no good 4K gaming. I wonder if such TVs are compatible with the PS4 Neo.

 

[gofreak]

You won't get situations where PS4 runs at 30 and Neo runs at 60

I think you will, but it's not going to be nearly some universal thing. Not every game is CPU bound, some will be able to lift the framerate with this setup.

More often than not it'll probably be better frames rather than a higher framerate, but in some cases you may get the latter or both.

 

[Inuhanyou]

From cutting edge to low settings in a few years. Not even pc gaming hardware is so cruel.

PS4 was never cutting edge though and everyone knew this. It was always good enough for the price however.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

PS4 getting replaced faster than the Wii U

Spoiler

/s

But honestly I do believe that it will replace the PS4 on the market. Not saying that the PS4 will not sell (since it will be 100-150$ cheaper) but Sony will try to push Neo a lot.

It'll be interesting to see how they position the NEO.

With N3DS Nintendo basically replaced 3DS and 3DS XL in Japan with N3DS and N3DS XL in all marketing etc. and retailers only really stocked the newer models with any prominence.

In the west they kept the old 2DS around but introduced the newer models.

Nintendo probably had to replace the old models to avoid confusion both in their messaging and from a customer's point of view (imagine having to choose between 2DS, 3DS XL, New 3DS XL, New 3DS).

Sony can probably give customers a choice like with 2DS and N3DS XL in North America.

 

[Bl@de]

lol wut? by what metric? Steam alone has a userbase of like 65 million

tststs did you forget? Spam accounts, app-users and Dota only players don't count.

 

[orochi91]

Read my edit m

Ah, I didn't see your edit at first.

You can consider this post of mine as a response to your edit.

 

[wapplew]

There are UHD TVs which don't support 60 hz in 4k resolution, which leans no good 4K gaming. I wonder if such TVs are compatible xith the PS4 Neo.

I think Neo can do 4K@30 at best, due to CPU bottle neck. No need to worry about TV yet.

 

[bltn]

Frame rate is king for me, so I'd be willing to upgrade. I hope Sony will offer an upgrade path.

 

[Pennywise]

People that are crying about "Sony is making a huge mistake. I'm selling my PS4! When I buy a new console, I expect it to last."

WTF

You can still play PS4 games. These people have some serious mental and emotional issues. Possibly even attachment issues to plastic, metal, and these companies. They don't owe you anything. All your crying says to me is that you're like a child. You want feel special and can no longer do with a PS4.5. It's childish and disgusting to have this mentality. Stop playing games and seek help. Sony doesn't owe you anything.

Careful with the words here.

You know what's childish ? Your argumentation and how you interact in that discussion.
If you don't agree with someone having a different opinion, feeling a shift towards the status quo they're used to with their hobby, and label them as mentally ill, you're seriously full of shit.

Both sides made some valid points, especially due the varying factors that play a role in the whole thing.
As we barely have any solid data and mainly rumors and rumored specs now, it's mainly speculation and the discussion is also heavily influenced by it.

Anyway.
These new specs sound a bit closer to reality than the former topic with 4k gaming.
It's certainly great for those that want a better experience and still don't wanna use a PC, but with those specs I wonder how some devs will actually shift their priorities.
With the upcoming reveal it will be interesting to get some voices from the industry and hear some opinions about it.

 

[Phreakuency]

Disappointed if 4K isn't required for games.

Also makes me think my comment in one of the earlier threads about the upgraded model, that 4K games would probably run at a lower frame rate than regular PS4 versions of the game, will be a thing.

 

[Daviii]

Disclaimer. I am NOT a PS4 owner, and due to small pooping beings, not really into gaming lately (Though I'm building a team of gamers for the future)

Please kill me after this comment but... I see Sony strategy to be VERY solid.

Now they finally embraced x86 and built a pseudo-PC, they will try to build incremental hardware upgrades which retain backwards compatibility and don't really leave anyone behind.

Developers have a clear, fixed, set of multiple target hardware instead of the nightmare the PC is.

People will have the choice to buy the latest and greatest, or spend less on the older/slower model, which is basically a standard across other industries.

This could even mean longer support for PS4 than there was for PS3 (Due to the architecture cut-over) in the same way crappy PCs can play many new games at "very low" settings

This is not too dissimilar to other platforms that have been rumored to embrace this model.

Anyway let's see how the market reacts. Sony has really made a tough decision with this one. If they win, there will be a solid gaming ecosystem not so prone to escape to other brands in the future. Or... customers may disagree with this approach and Sony could lose all the lead they've gained in the past years.

Exciting times

 

[ZoyosJD]

4.197 Tflops GPU?

I kept telling you 2 GPUs is crazy. And that wasn't even the end of your crazy.

This is an old example, but gets the point across:

This is a GPU limited senario, and even so between the top and bottom cards there is a roughly 4.5x difference in TFLOPS, but only a 3x difference in framerate (same goes for if you ignore SLI/Xfire cards). If anything it shows the scaling isn't perfect. You have to account for where you are limited.

 

[jelly]

Maybe whatever new tech comes next year isn't affordable for consoles so Neo hardware is the best you'll get unless you wait two or three years?

What is the likely release date, during summer or fall?

 

[Carn82]

this is about sony wanting to push 4K market. they have lots of incentives to do so.

Yeah, thats also my take on it, just as with the PS3 + bluray.

The way I see it:

- Sony wants to push 4K.
- A regulier 4K/UHD bluray player already costs (give or take) $400
- Regular PS4 was already sharply priced (hence the not-that-cutting-edge-specs).
- A modest PS4 hardware refresh isnt that big of an investment (relatively speaking)
- Sony will have a nice margin of profit on the PS4 Neo, which will probably sell for 399,-
- Having a new, slightly 'higher end' option available will allow pricedrops for regular PS4s
- Gamers have more options

 

[ChaoticBlue]

can a pc matching the ps4.5 be built for $399?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Original PS4

CPU: 8 Jaguar Cores at 1.6 GHz
GPU: AMD GCN, 18 CUs at 800 MHz
Memory: 8 GB GDDR5, 176 GB/s

NEO
CPU: 8 Jaguar Cores at 2.1 GHz
GPU: Improved AMD GCN, 36 CUs at 911 MHz
Memory: 8 GB GDDR5, 218 GB/s

Well I guess if this is real, it looks like 60fps should be easier to push for which is always a good thing but games will be upscaled to 4k, as there's still no way we will get great looking native 4k games from this. Maybe 2D indie type games could be but I still wouldn't expect something like Uncharted 4 at native 4k.

 

[ElTorro]

Pretty beefy GPU update. But I also do not expect that NEO-versions of the game will run necessarily at higher frame rates; only at more stable ones and with better IQ and more effects. CPU and memory bandwidth will likely prevent that for most games.

 

[Glorified G]

Wasn´t VR one of the most constant marketing tools for PS4 from the get go and for several years by now? If you need the new PS4 revision to have a passable performance and basically have to buy a new system to have such an experience now, early adopters really must feel beeing cheated.

Need?

PS4 Base and NEO versions of a game will also need to have parity with regard to peripheral support. So don’t expect NEO Games to have exclusive VR modes. Sony makes no mention of PlayStation VR in the docs we've seen, so it's hard to know what that means for the persistent rumors that this upgraded PS4 will be able to support PSVR without the "breakout box" that the headset ships with. That said, so long as the NEO's upgrades apply to PSVR games, developers should be able to get even more performance out of Sony's VR headset.

The Documentation doesn't even mention PSVR. Combined with the fact that all PSVR games will need to be 60fps minimum or it won't be certified and both the revision + base model will need to be supported for any games released in the future means the issues raised in your post won't be a reality. At least as far as we know.

 

[GazzaScotland]

Aren't most mp games already running 60fps at lower resolutions? In this case only the resolution would be higher so performance will be similar for all. SP games is where the advantage would be noticeable imo

That is a fair point. Might be the odd one out but should be OK thinking about it that way.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

I think Neo can do 4K@30 at best, due to CPU bottle neck. No need to worry about TV yet.

I am almost sure some Indie and 2D games can run at 4k @ 60 FPS.

Well I guess if this is real, it looks like 60fps should be easier to push for which is always a good thing but games will be upscaled to 4k, as there's still no way we will get great looking native 4k games from this. Maybe 2D indie type games could be but I still wouldn't expect something like Uncharted 4 at native 4k.

My point too.

 

[RowdyReverb]

I wonder how devs will handle the base versions. Would a game run at 1080p with a framerate in the mid-20s to 30, justifiably because that could have happened before the Neo. Or would they just drop the base res to 900p with a locked 30 since they could still tout the 1080p Neo version.

 

[Ambitious]

Well, my first thought was that some devs might put less effort into the optimization of the base version of their games than they would if there was not PS4K, because of possible excuses like "just get the PS4K version if you care about performance that much". And I'm sure there are at least some developers who targeted 60fps for a game but will now simply make the PS4K version the 60fps version and leave the base version at 30fps (probably unlocked).

But considering the size of this thread, I'm sure this has already been discussed several times, so let's see whether I can find those discussions.

 

[AngryMoth]

I don't have a problem with this really so long as it doesn't lead to completely gimped ogPS4 games which I doubt, I can see 30fps on ps4 and 60fps on Neo being standard.

I know the article says they must have identical peripheral support but honestly I would have no problem with VR only working with a Neo for certain, graphically intensive games since there are cases where the hardware on the original ps4 just isn't going to cut it but if they can run using the Neo it's better than nothing.

 

[SwolBro]

ok, i get that this generation has been pretty underpowered but this update seems a bit too ridiculous.

so many people bought the regular ps4, and the new one is there just for better frame rate and the possibility (a small one) of 4k?

i dunno about this one.

 

[gofreak]

Disappointed if 4K isn't required for games.

Also makes me think my comment in one of the earlier threads about the upgraded model, that 4K games would probably run at a lower frame rate than regular PS4 versions of the game, will be a thing.

The report here is pretty clear about Sony not allowing that tradeoff to reach 4K:

In the documents we’ve received, Sony offers suggestions for reaching 4K/UltraHD resolutions for NEO mode game builds, but they're also giving developers a degree of freedom with how to approach this. 4K TV owners should expect the NEO to upscale games to fit the format, but one place Sony is unwilling to bend is on frame rate. Throughout the documents, Sony repeatedly reminds developers that the frame rate of games in NEO Mode must meet or exceed the frame rate of the game on the original PS4 system.

 

[wapplew]

I am almost sure some Indie and 2D games can run at 4k @ 60 FPS.

Look at Broforce...we'll be lucky if they can run at stable 30.

 

[orochi91]

ok, i get that this generation has been pretty underpowered but this update seems a bit too ridiculous.

so many people bought the regular ps4, and the new one is there just for better frame rate and the possibility (a big one) of 4k?

i dunno about this one.

Sounds like the 4K aspect of this console revolves around upscaling; nothing AAA will have native 4K output.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Pretty beefy GPU update. But I also do not expect that NEO-versions of the game will run necessarily at higher frame rates; only at more stable ones and with better IQ and more effects. CPU and memory bandwidth will likely prevent that for most games.

The alleged GPU information is the main reason I think these are bullshit specs. They claim it will double the number of CU's which would mean it's a jump to Polaris (and more likely Polaris 10) which won't be available in dedicated GPU form for a few months. I find it nearly impossible to believe that AMD has prepared a ton of Polaris GPU's, on likely low 14nm yields, just to shove them into PS4's, where AMD makes nearly no money. It just does not make sense from a business standpoint.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Look at Broforce...we'll be lucky if they can ran at stable 30.

What do you mean? I played the game. How many FPS doesn't run at ?

 

[dealer-]

Pretty beefy GPU update. But I also do not expect that NEO-versions of the game will run necessarily at higher frame rates; only at more stable ones and with better IQ and more effects. CPU and memory bandwidth will likely prevent that for most games.

Yeah, most console games are not even a stable 30fps, I think 60fps is a pipe dream. The extra power will be used for IQ improvements and making games look better to joe public.

 

[Moosichu]

The alleged GPU information is the main reason I think these are bullshit specs. They claim it will double the number of CU's which would mean it's a jump to Polaris (and more likely Polaris 10) which won't be available in dedicated GPU form for a few months. I find it nearly impossible to believe that AMD has prepared a ton of Polaris GPU's, on likely low 14nm yields, just to shove them into PS4's, where AMD makes nearly no money. It just does not make sense from a business standpoint.

The PS4K most likely won't come out until 2017.

 

[neurosisxeno]

The PS4K most likely won't come out until 2017.

I thought the rumor was an E3 announce and available for the holiday season?

 

[wapplew]

What do you mean? I played the game. How many FPS doesn't run at ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VEKCCe3JAs

 

[dead monkey uk]

Yeah, thats also my take on it, just as with the PS3 + bluray.

The way I see it:

- Sony wants to push 4K.
- A regulier 4K/UHD bluray player already costs (give or take) $400
- A modest PS4 hardware refresh isnt that big of an investment (relatively speaking)
- Sony will have a nice margin of profit on the PS4 Neo
- Having a new, slightly 'higher end' option available will allow pricedrops for regular PS4s
- Gamers have more options

Agree with you. Sony is using the PS4K to get 4K content into people's home. Sony is making a big push with 4K TVs and Streaming this year.

Gaming wise I am thinking someone with a 1080p screen will see all of the benefits (framerate, improved textures) outwith 4K upscaling of games,

 

[bitbydeath]

I am almost sure some Indie and 2D games can run at 4k @ 60 FPS.

4K @ 120fps is apparently possible on the current model so the new one should be able to run rings around that.

http://www.spawnfirst.com/news/trine-2-complete-story-reach-4k-resolution-sony-allows/

 

[Rembrandt]

I still hate the idea of these upgrades and I think it'll lead to some interesting reviews, but the promise of no fracturing is a huge plus. As the gen goes on, I'm curious to see how big the disparity is. We're definitely going to get games that run a lot worse on the original system and while they'll be able to play them, it'll probably be so bad that it'll force an upgrade.

Also I'm curious to know what they consider a gameplay option. If we get an upgraded nemesis system and it runs fine on the new consoles but is very gimped on the original then is that a problem? Ala Shadow of Mordor PS4/PS3.

 

[Nictel]

"This will make my PS4 run like shit"
"This isn't a real update"
So what is it?

 

[notaskwid]

I personally would feel much more interested in buying an NX than a revision of a console I own.

 

[SwolBro]

can a pc matching the ps4.5 be built for $399?

You're doing the math wrong. I'd reckon for most people thinking of jumping to PC it'd be
PS4+PS4.5 or Xbox one+Xboxone.5 because a lot of gamers here already bought a console.

so lets say $399+$399= $800 PC and i believe you'd build a better one that can be incrementally upgraded from that point on.

Sounds like the 4K aspect of this console revolves around upscaling; nothing AAA will have native 4K output.

I meant to say small possibility

 

[Dahaka]

I personally would feel much more interested in buying an NX than a revision of a console I own.

well, don't you have a choice?

 

[Vuze]

GPU upgrade seems decent but I will simply assume that the low clock of the CPU has been the limiting factor in a bunch of recent games, so I'm not quite sure why they didn't focus on that primarily. Apart from the GPU this sounds more like PS4OC.

I'm still surprised this turned out to be "real". I thought a slimmed down PS4 with 4k bluray drive and support for 4K UI would be a good idea to draw more people in who want a 4k bluray player but I never expected a spec bump and 'splitting' the user base.

And yes I'm salty because I bought a cheap-ish ps4 last winter in anticipation of Uncharted 4 and Horizon. Well, lesson learnt for the next generation.

 

[TAJ]

4K @ 120fps is apparently possible on the current model so the new one should be able to run rings around that.

http://www.spawnfirst.com/news/trine-2-complete-story-reach-4k-resolution-sony-allows/

It's like they didn't read the article that they based their article on.

 

[gofreak]

You're doing the math wrong. I'd reckon for most people thinking of jumping to PC it'd be
PS4+PS4.5 or Xbox one+Xboxone.5 because a lot of gamers already bought a console.

so lets say $399+$399= $800 PC and i believe you'd build a better one that can be incrementally upgraded from that point on.

As a value calculation that's a bit nonsensical, though - the split '$400/$400' offered 3 years of playing games on PS4. To have '$800' now for a PC in lieu of that same $400/$400 would require waiting 3 years... or ignoring that wait, and the value one had in those years. Unless, one could build for $800 in 2013 a PC to meet or beat this new PS4 model. In which case the value equation would undoubtedly swing in favour of that option.

 

[Greddleok]

More than anything, the market will decide whether this is a good idea or not.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Disappointed if 4K isn't required for games.

Also makes me think my comment in one of the earlier threads about the upgraded model, that 4K games would probably run at a lower frame rate than regular PS4 versions of the game, will be a thing.

Your not running 4k games. Its not required and its only an output resolution. Furthermore its almost impossible given how more powerful GPU's struggle.

 

[notaskwid]

well, don't you have a choice?

Yes, I'm just stating. As long as games are still optimized for the base model, I'm fine.

 

[Yoday]

Pretty beefy GPU update. But I also do not expect that NEO-versions of the game will run necessarily at higher frame rates; only at more stable ones and with better IQ and more effects. CPU and memory bandwidth will likely prevent that for most games.

That's what I get out of it too. The GPU is nice, but it is going to be bottlenecked on multiple fronts. I'm surprised they didn't try to push the bandwidth more.