Interfectum
Member
I think there could be a "Playstation 5" but it wont be a console reboot like we are used to. I expect it to be just another, more powerful, iteration of PS4 architecture with a rebrand and perhaps new controller functionality.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
I think there could be a "Playstation 5" but it wont be a console reboot like we are used to. I expect it to be just another, more powerful, iteration of PS4 architecture with a rebrand and perhaps new controller functionality.
Branniganz Love
Member
Just a random thought here, are PS4 and Neo going to use different discs? Or will the games all just be sold to work off of a regular PS4 disc? Could the cost of games potentially rise, let's say $60 for the PS4 version and $80 for the PS4 + Neo disc. Seems so obvious that this would be a bad idea but at the same time it could potentially appease devs that either don't want to make a Neo version or devs who would like to get a little more compensation for making a Neo version. Has there been any indication from leaks so far?
Same. They might get away from numbers to make it clear they're iterating on the PlayStation platform, but there will another PlayStation.
Those Polaris 4.2Tf won't translate into the same 4.2Tf of previous GCN (basically what the current PS4 has). I expect a 2560sp to reach or even outperform Hawaii arch (R9 290x or R9 390X). So a 2304sp version (like the PS4K seems to have) would outperform a R9 290/390 (non-X) imo. I would not compare to a R9 380x (basically Tonga).
Hexa
Member
Same regular disc.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's called a PS5 though.
Yes. PS5 games won't run on the PS4. At that point it's a new generation.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
With Sony's NEO stipulations, I bet developers are thrilled with more rules and guidelines to follow. More work with no incentives.
NullPointer
Member
n/m, misread.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
then dont make a Neo mode for your game. Neo games are required to support the OG PS4 but nobody said the same applies in reverse.
Marty Chinn
Member
Why do you assume that? I think if anything, there's no safe assumptions which direction things are going to go now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So would you say the Tf in this seemingly Polaris set is more closer to the nVidia Tf spec, which has been traditionally lower number, but same to better performance per part?
I thought sales were their incentive... if the market expands to have two pricing tiers for two types of consumers (regular and enthusiast), then they have a potential to make more sales, and reach out to more people.
Again, there are a few devs in here calling bullshit on this as "most", and are fully behind this. So we will have to wait for NDA lifted interviews to see both sides of the argument.
Between 4.1TF to 4.2TF. But as someone above mentioned... you may not be able to compare to the current TF due to how much more efficient Polaris is over GCN. So it may be even better performing, than if they took the GCN spec with the same TF.
The_Inquisitor
Member
You are missing the point. Consoles are going to a phone like cycle just like every other consumer electronic is. Hardware as a "service" instead of distinct entities.
The incentives are a stable, predictable architecture and tools, with no new mountain to climb each time a big generational reset happens
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You mean like an iPhone 6, iPhone 6s, or a Galaxy 6, Galaxy 7?
Yes, I agree, they want the 'games as a service' ecosystem like mobile, but they will still have revision numbers to hype 'generations' in tech.
Bingo!
Now if we took the same devs, and sat them down and asked them what would be better. Starting from scratch again, or having the same already familiar SDK environment mature as the market expands? I bet the answers would be different than what people are assuming.
It is the same thing, only difference is the 'naming' of the box, lol.
why do you need an iterative console for these to happen? If they skipped the PS4K and went to the PS5 with non-alien design, what would be the problem?
TheSlySoul
Member
More than likely PS4 structure will get an iOS name which will make game capability easier to understand. Consoles will be PlayStation, PlayStation Slim, PlayStation Air, etc.You mean like an iPhone 6, iPhone 6s, or a Galaxy 6, Galaxy 7?
Yes, I agree, they want the 'games as a service' ecosystem like mobile, but they will still have revision numbers to hype 'generations' in tech.
So the whole thing is unnecessary then.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Possibly. We are agreeing on the same thing, just the naming is up in the air. Even though I believe they will stick with the numbers thing, but who knows.
Yeeaaahhhhh, do not know where you got that from what I said. Keep the fight strong though.
I will pre-order mine when they go up.
Man the PS Neo will be a little beast in a box. 4.2 Tflops + New Polaris architecture will translate to a very substantial upgrade compared to the original PS4.
Developers will be able to run games with way more alpha effects, AA, LOD, higher resolution etc.
I'm sure some developers are annoyed by the extra cost and effort required in targetting the new PS Neo.
However on the other hand, remember Devs are tech nerds and are probably excited they can make their game look better on consoles. Also PR people will showcase the superior version.
Get prepared for pretty soon all trailers of a new game will show PS Neo footage.
Developers will be able to run games with way more alpha effects, AA, LOD, higher resolution etc.
I'm sure some developers are annoyed by the extra cost and effort required in targetting the new PS Neo.
However on the other hand, remember Devs are tech nerds and are probably excited they can make their game look better on consoles. Also PR people will showcase the superior version.
Get prepared for pretty soon all trailers of a new game will show PS Neo footage.
webkatt
Member
This gen I expected 1080p/60fps for all games and was generally disappointed. For the record I'm fine with 30fps. Maybe my expectations were too grandiose?
I suspect the Neo will be the same. Graphics will be prettier and effects will be better at the cost of a fluctuating framerate.
I suspect the Neo will be the same. Graphics will be prettier and effects will be better at the cost of a fluctuating framerate.
Yes. AMD badly needs to improve their ALU efficiency. Nvidia did it with Maxwell but AMD didn't. I expect Polaris (both 10 & 11 but that case it is 10 that interests us) to significantly improve that.
Marty Chinn
Member
Ya, I don't get the argument either. That argument had everyone on board with when the architecture change was announced before the PS4 and Xbox One were released.
With the Neo your going to get 1080p on all games at least.
From a Digital Foundry article.
family_guy
Member
If people passed on your game because it was sub-30fps and/or sub-1080p, that's an incentive to get those lost sales.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not sure I see the incentive in your argument for a mandatory requirement.
gamerMan
Member
While I can see how consumers will benefit from this, I really don't see how developers benefit from this. I don't think Colin is making this up. If you were a developer would you be happy? Bungie said it would be impossible to create Destiny on the PC because they were already working with 4 Skus. It's not just a matter of flicking a switch as a lot people in this thread seem to suggest.
I think what we will see is that games will take longer to be released on the Playstation platform as they will be first released on Xbox One.
I think what we will see is that games will take longer to be released on the Playstation platform as they will be first released on Xbox One.
Let's not use Destiny as an example of what normal games development is like. The game's development cycle/tools have been/are a clusterfuck.
But yes, I do agree that it's very believable that some developers would not be happy with this, as they are overworked as it is, and this just adds more work for them regardless of how hard or easy it is. But, I don't expect this to impact release dates all that much. And release first on Xbox One because of this? Nah, not happening.
Fact of the matter is, if a game is developed and works on a regular ps4, it is already ps4neo ready and will work on it. The only thing devs need to make sure of is that the game is at least 1080p on the ps4neo, which most ps4 games are already. And then it's their choice to add in other optimizations/upgrades if they want to. That is nowhere near the amount of work it would take to bring a game to pc, xb1, or any other console for that matter.
CosmicQueso
Member
You actually think this? You honestly believe that games will start releasing later on PS4?
He seemed genuinely upset about this news in the video they put up, so I don't think he's trolling.
Dude is concerned about what this means for the future of console gaming and I can't blame him; this industry hasn't really changed much for decades, all of this is alien to people who grew up with it.
Let them dream. Doesn't help you have devs like Marty Chinn fanning the worry wort flames. I'm still waiting to hear from someone about how this is a negative outside of the usual same issues that have been addressed already.
Chobel
Member
So you can make PS4 only games? I seriously doubt it. Sony is not gonna allow that.
Audioboxer
Member
Yes and in 720p.
That's called a PS5 bro. Except the leap will be much larger and the architecture change much more significant. That makes compatibility a bit harder, but you can tell what PS5 will be when they let devs off the hook having to account for the OG PS4.
We grew up with it as well. Its uncharted territory. But theres a difference between being concerned and being too emotionally invested to think straight.
This is not the end of the world, nor is it necessarily bad for consumers in the same way always online and no used games was for XB1.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
What one person would know how most developers feel about this?
It doesn't really matter, nobody's word on this gospel. Even Gopher has been saying some conflicting things. All we know is that there are at least some devs for it and against it.
That's what surprises me. I honestly thought they were going to allow devs to continue doing PS4 only games, and incentivize making PS4 Neo profiles.
You think Sony can seriously tell a dev: if you make a PS4 game, you-have- to make a manually fully optimized PS4k version as well?
I expect there will be a "PS4" profile" relatively easy to implement for small dev teams, because otherwise Sony would make a lot of unhappy people by strong arming extra dev time.
thelastword
Banned
I think 1080p was an expectation for all games and it made sense especially for PS4 hardware, but 60fps for all games was never going to happen. Devs will spend their performance budget elsewhere especially if the game is not a fighting game or a competitive fps. Pretty much any TPS on consoles would be 30fps with a boost to graphics including most open world games etc...I do like what MGS5 did though, that's an excellent engine, but such games are pretty rare on consoles.
RedAssedApe
Banned
so concerned yet he readily admits that he will buy this at launch...
Well said.
Give it time, most folks like him will come around, but it really comes down to Sony and how they'll sell this to the reluctant crowd.
I expect a thorough and detailed segment for this console at E3, specifically if a 2016 launch is in the cards.
I laughed so damn hard when Greg bluntly said "you'll buy it anyways" after Colin finished his rant in their recent video.
XD
I suspect it's like a mini-new generation. Early games will look like PS4 titles with improvements in frame rate (and resolution if they weren't 1080p on the PS4.) A few showcase titles will add some new shader effects or greater draw distances, and eventually we'll see more significant investments as the installed base grows.
So it's the same story about early adoption, only with more rapid timeframes as it will be much easier than a ground-up move to a new architecture, API, OS, etc.
CosmicQueso
Member
He won't be the only one.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Those platforms has got entirely different architectures. The PS4.5 is just an upgraded PS4.
PS4 Neo profiles by default at the settings of the PS4 upgraded unit to run the game. All it ays is that there has to be a Neo profile, they dont have to optimize anything. That literally means dumping the code on there, locking the game to 1080p and letting the HW do the rest if they want
SolidSnakex
Member
But that says nothing about whether he should be concerned about it or like it. I'm in ht same boat as him. I hate this idea. But i'll be there day one because I love Sony's games and with this thing the writing is on the wall for games on the standard platform down the line. I'm not going to play gimped versions of Gran Turismo Sport or God of War.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Meh. I was born in 1980. I'm ok with it.
I mean, Nintendo has kinda been doing this with the GameBoy line since the beginning.