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[FluxWaveZ]

Unrealistic expectations.
Persona is a well know franshise in japan, but in the west just ppl in forums know or are excited about it. Final Fantasy is a name everyone know. Even my mom know whats Final Fantasy is.

The fact that Final Fantasy XV will eclipse Persona 5's sales does not dispute his point.

 

[semiconscious]

The Souls series is the perfect analog for Persona's situation.

well, except for when you get to the part where, for every one persona game, we get 5 soulsborne games ...

there will never be enough new persona releases to generate any kind of serious western following (&, no, spin-offs don't count)...

 

[HMD]

I actually think FFXV will sell better than XIII if it reviews well.

It's an open world fantasy game, it's gonna sell well (regardless of the Final Fantasy brand). P5 on the other hand will be a much tougher sell, but I do expect it to sell a lot more than P4.

 

[Verder]

Oh fuck I totally forgot this is in 2 days.


Hold meeeeeeee

 

[F4r0_Atak]

Why are you quoting me?

Maybe I made a mistake but I thought that you said there could be a possiblity of P5 arriving on XB1. I must have misread your reply if you meant the opposite.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

well, except for when you get to the part where, for every one persona game, we get 5 soulsborne games ...

there will never be enough new persona releases to generate any kind of serious western following (&, no, spin-offs don't count)...

Why do you think The Last Guardian is such a huge thing?

Maybe I made a mistake but I thought that you said there could be a possiblity of P5 arriving on XB1. I must have misread your reply if you meant the opposite.

I never said anything about this.

 

[Aenima]

Why do you think The Last Guardian is such a huge thing?



I never said anything about this.

Again, The Last Guardian is only huge in forums. Huge in hype, because the games before it was all great games, but not great sellers. The Last Guardian will sell less than a Souls game.

 

[Heartfyre]

I don't expect we'll hear anything regarding a Western release out of this event, but I expect atlusprime to be bombarded with questions about one following it.

But E3 is right around the corner, folks. I don't think we'll have long to wait.

 

[kenta]

well, except for when you get to the part where, for every one persona game, we get 5 soulsborne games ...

there will never be enough new persona releases to generate any kind of serious western following (&, no, spin-offs don't count)...

While I think you have a point, I also think there's more to it than simply the number of games they release (because at some point releasing tons of games is detrimental)

The series is unapologetically Japanese -- and I love it for being so -- but frankly that's only going to appeal to so many people. Souls games don't have kotatsus and bento boxes, you know?

 

[Aters]

Every minute is eternity now. Please save me May 5th.

Which makes sense since the cast is very Japanese-audience focused, even compared to previous FF games. I'm just not seeing much hype outside Japan other than the diehard fans.

Honestly, I see more hate for FFXV on NeoGAF than in anywhere else.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

Why do you think The Last Guardian is such a huge thing?

I never said anything about this.

Then what did you mean? (Sorry in advance if I didn't understand.)

Because @WhiteWaterMoose was talking about the boost Persona 5 could get from coming to XB1, a bit like what happened to FF when the XIII released. Which is not happening.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Then what did you mean? (Sorry in advance if I didn't understand.)

Because @WhiteWaterMoose was talking about the boost Persona 5 could get from coming to XB1, a bit like what happened to FF when the XIII released. Which is not happening.

The quote tree I was responding to was only about the boost in perception that Persona could get, since that was the section Shauni quoted. I wasn't talking about platforms.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

The quote tree I was responding to was only about the boost in perception that Persona could get, since that was the section Shauni quoted. I wasn't talking about platforms.

Than I am sincerely sorry for misunderstanding mate!

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

My friend who hates turn based games just finished Persona 4. He is all in for Persona 5. It took me awhile to get him to try it but it worked.

 

[Dantis]

I think Persona 5 could have gotten a massive boost in terms of awareness in the west, but I think that it won't because of the direction they took.

Something more grounded like Catherine definitely seems like it would have more western appeal than the absolute weirdness that is Persona 5, for better or worse.


It'll be the best selling Persona game to date though, either way.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Catherine's boxart had a sexually poised anime woman with a bunch of sheep and a dude in his underwear around her. There's no way that has more western appeal than whatever boxart Persona 5 will have.

 

[Dangansona]

Catherine's boxart had a sexually poised anime woman with a bunch of sheep and a dude in his underwear around her. There's no way that has more western appeal than whatever boxart Persona 5 will have.

As someone whose favorite game is Catherine, this poster is correct.

 

[Lunar15]

I think Persona 5 could have gotten a massive boost in terms of awareness in the west, but I think that it won't because of the direction they took.

Something more grounded like Catherine definitely seems like it would have more western appeal than the absolute weirdness that is Persona 5, for better or worse.


It'll be the best selling Persona game to date though, either way.

The highest grossing movies in theaters are about men and women in silly looking costumes. Persona's appeal was always limited by rooting it Japanese school culture, and that was never going to go away, regardless of the direction they took.

In the context of a venn diagram of people who would be willing to play a JRPG set in a japanese high school and people who haven't played persona, I think the design and art direction they took is actually a boon to the series. You may not like the outlandish idea of stylish flashy thief capers, but it's a pretty universal theme and I think it's garnered a really positive reception among people who haven't tried a persona game before.

The more "grounded" you get, the closer you get to something like Life Is Strange, and even that kind of concept isn't lighting the world on fire, despite some pretty universal themes.

 

[Soriku]

I think Persona 5 could have gotten a massive boost in terms of awareness in the west, but I think that it won't because of the direction they took.

Something more grounded like Catherine definitely seems like it would have more western appeal than the absolute weirdness that is Persona 5, for better or worse.


It'll be the best selling Persona game to date though, either way.

I'm not seeing how P5 is absolute weirdness compared to Catherine. In Catherine the core of the gameplay is a dude in his underwear climbing blocks...

P5 doesn't even strike me as weird. I don't think direction would make much of a difference to its sales.

 

[Shauni]

Why not? I don't think they're saying a boost that will exactly reflect Final Fantasy VII, but a boost in that vein that will launch the series into the attention of a much wider audience than it has now.

I think Persona, and the whole SMT subset for that matter, deals with imagery and issues that aren't apt to western mainstream audiences, plus it's obvious anime/manga style, and the perceived passe turn-based system will keep it tethered. FF is really the only game series that seems able to get away with that on a wide scale, probably because it's been so established for so long (and that series has already gotten away from turn-based combat).

I don't think Souls is the best analogy honestly. It's gameplay and style is a lot more western friendly, even if its storytelling and difficulty curve isn't so much. But I think the former helped foster it to evolve past its niche.

I mean, don't get me wrong or anything, I've grown to really love the Persona series and all, but I don't really think it's in a position to break out of that niche, at least not to the degree that some people seem to think it can. But I could be wrong, and I'll be glad to. I just personally don't think it will happen.

 

[silva1991]

Catherine's boxart had a sexually poised anime woman with a bunch of sheep and a dude in his underwear around her. There's no way that has more western appeal than whatever boxart Persona 5 will have.

Agreed.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Obviously the Souls games have multiple games to benefit from. Persona would be more towards the start of what From began years ago. That's why if Atlus/Sega were smart they would build on the smaller WOM of P4G and use P5 to really push the series hard for the first time.

I definitely agree that this could definitely be their Dark Souls 1 moment, it might not be a huge seller but it sets the way for the series to continue grow with sequels. I just think we're a couple of games out from seeing a Bloodborne or Dark Soul 3 equivalent.

 

[wmlk]

I expect Persona to be closer than ever to Final Fantasy sales, partially because I expect P5 to sell noticeably better than P4 and partially because I expect FFXV to sell noticeably worse than FFXIII.

P5 is going to do great and I'm happy for that, and as a developer I trust them more than SE. Even so, I think you're expecting too little from SE.

Even last week they said pre-orders in Japan are doing far better than they could have imagined, and BD2 has hopes of achieving 10 million. If they're happy with pre-orders with that as their barometer than I don't think they'll do "noticeably" worse. I think their market penetration into China will pay dividends.

 

[Shauni]

I think anyone who honestly think P5 is going to sell in the same range as XV is really just living in their own bubble. FF is a megafranchise, and despite the mixed reactions to the XIII games from fans, the series itself has not seen any huge sales decline (people like to point to the XIII sequels sells as so, but direct sequels and spin-offs have always sold worse than mainline games). This is a mainline FF game on new hardware after an extended absence, it's going to sell a lot.

 

[njean777]

Holy shit I forgot this game even existed. I only have an xbox one though

 

[Dantis]

The highest grossing movies in theaters are about men and women in silly looking costumes. Persona's appeal was always limited by rooting it Japanese school culture, and that was never going to go away, regardless of the direction they took.

The more "grounded" you get, the closer you get to something like Life Is Strange, and even that kind of concept isn't lighting the world on fire, despite some pretty universal themes.

I feel like, really, you know this is a bad comparison. Broadly speaking, Persona 5's 'superheroes' and the Marvel films have similarities, but really, they're fucking miles apart.

The Marvel films are very much a western ideal of 'cool', Persona 5 is definitely not.

I'm not seeing how P5 is absolute weirdness compared to Catherine. In Catherine the core of the gameplay is a dude in his underwear climbing blocks...

P5 doesn't even strike me as weird. I don't think direction would make much of a difference to its sales.

Persona 5 is like... dorky weird, I guess? Catherine is surreal. It's not really the same.

And I absolutely think direction affects sales. I honestly don't think Persona 5 is going to appeal to people who aren't either A) already invested or B) are into anime. But I think it could do, because the people who make it are really talented guys.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I think Persona, and the whole SMT subset for that matter, deals with imagery and issues that aren't apt to western mainstream audiences, plus it's obvious anime/manga style, and the perceived passe turn-based system will keep it tethered. FF is really the only game series that seems able to get away with that on a wide scale, probably because it's been so established for so long (and that series has already gotten away from turn-based combat).

I don't think Souls is the best analogy honestly. It's gameplay and style is a lot more western friendly, even if its storytelling and difficulty curve isn't so much. But I think the former helped foster it to evolve past its niche.

I mean, don't get me wrong or anything, I've grown to really love the Persona series and all, but I don't really think it's in a position to break out of that niche, at least not to the degree that some people seem to think it can. But I could be wrong, and I'll be glad to. I just personally don't think it will happen.

I guess my stance is relative, even amongst enthusiast attention towards the Persona series. Persona 4 alone must be one of the games that has had the most "LTTP" threads on NeoGAF, because word of mouth has been spreading for years and a lot of people who even post on forums have been missing out on the series until recently.

Persona 3 came out for the PS2 during the same year the PS3 was released. Persona 4 came out 2 years later. Then, P4 got a remake on the PlayStation Vita, of all platforms. Starting with P3—which is when the series really took off globally even according to the CEO—the Persona series always fell behind in terms of being able to reach a wider amount of "hardcore" recognition for its choice in platforms and because people basically weren't paying attention to it, even amongst enthusiasts.

Now, Persona 5 is a game with more of a Western influenced aesthetic than Persona 3 and Persona 4, it's been on tons of "most wanted" lists from Western press when we definitely weren't seeing the same for P3 and P4, and it's now going to actually be released on the PS4 as one of its first big JRPGs.

I definitely think Persona 5 could attract a much wider English audience than P3 and P4 did (we already have plenty of people saying they never played a Persona game, but are interested in playing P5). The quality of the series has spoken for itself; Persona 4 Golden alone has increased the awareness of the series significantly.

They just need to position it right for the Western audience. I heavily disagree with the people who say that Persona 5's audience are basically already Persona fans.

 

[Dantis]

Now, Persona 5 is a game with more of a Western influenced aesthetic than Persona 3 and Persona 4, it's been on tons of "most wanted" lists from Western press when we definitely weren't seeing the same for P3 and P4, and it's now going to actually be released on the PS4 as one of its first big JRPGs.

I absolutely disagree. Persona 5 looks much more Japanese to me than P3 or P4.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I absolutely disagree. Persona 5 looks much more Japanese to me than P3 or P4.

This is Persona 5's main menu:

From the style of music (Black music, acid jazz), to the narrative influence (Arsene, Carmen, Captain Kidd, Zoro), to the urban leanings, to even what we've seen of the cast so far excluding Yusuke, P5 absolutely conveys a more Western influenced tone to me than P3 and P4's Japanese one.

 

[AgentLampshade]

The menu looks like what British Punk should have looked like.

 

[ClearData]

Holy shit I forgot this game even existed. I only have an xbox one though

Damn I envy you because if I could have amnesia up to the point the release date got announced it would have made the wait painless. As it stands it feels like I'm suffering multiple game delay hells with The Last Guardian and Persona 5 to name a few.

Though if Persona 5 does catch your fancy njean you might be able to snag a PS4 on the cheap if the PS4 Neo causes a lot of people to dump the vanilla version. I'm pretty sure Persona will be well optimized for the base PS4 with how long in development it has been.

 

[Mediking]

This is Persona 5's main menu:

Everything about this menu says, "Buy me." It's so dang good.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

They should release a demo, that only let's you play around the menus. I think people would be satisfied.

 

[Philippo]

Yeah, put me in the camp of those who believe that this has more chances of appealing Western players.
It has that cool modern anime vibe that sell very well that has a wider appeal than P4 rural setting.

 

[Dantis]

This is Persona 5's main menu:

From the style of music (Black music, acid jazz), to the narrative influence (Arsene, Carmen, Captain Kidd, Zoro), to the urban leanings, to even what we've seen of the cast so far excluding Yusuke, P5 absolutely conveys a more Western influenced tone to me than P3 and P4's Japanese one.

That menu pose is a classic anime-style pose, and combined with the sticker saying "Don't look at me like that" seems exactly like something I'd expect from Japanese media.
Persona 3's Personas were based on Greek myths (mostly), but I wouldn't say P3 was especially Greek. I don't think the origins of the names means much.
The music is great, but Meguro just takes influences from other genres. It's still Meguro music.

I dunno. I just don't see it at all. On the other hand, this screams anime to me:

 

[Squire]

^The "cut out letters to spell a message/text" thing is also specifically taken from western crime stories, too. That point can't even be debated.

Crime capers are universal Vs Japanese high school which is, of course, most relevant to Japanese society. Don't see how you could debate that either.

I'm not really getting how P5 is so "weird" or wacky and the arguments provided seem rather hollow, honestly.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

I expect Persona to be closer than ever to Final Fantasy sales, partially because I expect P5 to sell noticeably better than P4 and partially because I expect FFXV to sell noticeably worse than FFXIII.

Open world sausage fest action RPG with huge marketing budget will easily eclipse FF XIII. Witcher 3 might as well be a new IP on consoles and we seen how well that did. Only thing I can see holding this game back is not having a 90+ metacritic. If the reviews on it is good, expect it to be the best selling FF game. You just can't loose when it comes to being open world in this generation.

 

[Lunar15]

I get what Dantis is saying: The game is undoubtedly "anime". It definitely skews closer to the shounen side of anime/manga as well, but I don't think this is surprising considering they've pushed that angle since P3. See: all of the of the manga/comic book style word effects during battle, P3's talking robot girl, P4's giant talking Doraemon knock off, etc.

My case, however, is that the group of people who would be willing to play an anime style game and would be turned off by the direction P5 is going in is incredibly small. It's a niche within a niche.

Persona 3 is arguably the most grounded of 3 and 4, but 4 remains the more popular game, even from a western standpoint. I don't think people mind the outlandish/comic bookish aspects of the series. Sure, there's some things I don't love, namely the main character's big dumb sleeves, but other than that, I think everything looks pretty sleek and appealing without also being compromising towards what the western ideal of "grounded" is.

Dantis, to better illustrate my point with Marvel films: the fact is, they've actually found more success with these films the weirder they've gotten. Back in the 90's so much had to be "grounded". Studios were afraid weird stuff wouldn't appeal to audiences. Sure, there's definitely still compromise in today's movies, but we fucking got a Guardians of the Galaxy movie in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Fourteen. Tree Man and Talking Raccoon and all. We got an Ant-Man movie about a guy who shrinks. I don't think I ever would have accepted that audiences would swallow that shit 10 years ago, but here we are. I think certain audiences are open to things that feel genuine. Sure, you're never going to reach a certain audience with some things. P5 isn't going to be the massive mainstream hit a lot of people here seem to think it will be. But I don't think that has anything to do with the direction they've gone in, stupid sleeves included.

 

[Mediking]

^ I love All-Out Attacks!!!

They will NEVER get old. I loved them in Persona 3 FES, Persona 4 Golden and I totally love them in Persona 5!

 

[Sophia]

This is Persona 5's main menu:

From the style of music (Black music, acid jazz), to the narrative influence (Arsene, Carmen, Captain Kidd, Zoro), to the urban leanings, to even what we've seen of the cast so far excluding Yusuke, P5 absolutely conveys a more Western influenced tone to me than P3 and P4's Japanese one.

I don't disagree that it coveys a more western influenced tone, but I'm not so certain the style of music is a strong point in favor of that. Jazz and related genres are no stranger to anime.

 

[Squire]

Being anime doesn't preclude something from being popular.

Persona is much closer to borderline cultural touch stones like Dragon Ball or whatever than to something niche to the point of potentially being off-putting like K-On or Madoka or what have you.

 

[sjay1994]

I really don't know what to expect from this announcement.

My guess is a release date for late 2016 for JP, and early 2017 for NA. Will be blown away if 2016 world wide release.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I don't disagree that it coveys a more western influenced tone, but I'm not so certain the style of music is a strong point in favor of that. Jazz and related genres are no stranger to anime.

Where did I say they were?

P5 absolutely conveys a more Western influenced tone to me than P3 and P4's Japanese one.

P4's primary musical influence was J-pop. I don't know how you and Dantis are then saying that P5's musical style (as said by the actual composer himself) can then be concluded to not actually be more Western influenced than the games that preceded it.

I dunno. I just don't see it at all. On the other hand, this screams anime to me:

"Anime" isn't some all-encompassing term that means "100% Japanese" to me. There are nuances and, to me and apparently several others, Persona 5 has a more Western influence. Just like how Catherine is totally "anime" but also has a significant Western influence. Something being "anime" doesn't preclude that.

 

[Dantis]

I'm not really getting how P5 is so "weird" or wacky and the arguments provided seem rather hollow, honestly.

You like anime though, so it seems normal to you.

Like I have a friend who listens to really heavy music, and doesn't understand how weird it sounds to people who don't listen to it.

Anime is niche and weird, and the further you are from it, the worse it is. Persona is a really fucking well made game, but Persona 5 is entrenched in the stylings of Japanese media. Which is fine, because that's what they want to make. But I think that it would absolutely do better in the west if those stylings were dialed back a little. Catherine was, broadly, about a normal looking guy in a pretty normal situation (at face value). I show someone a picture of Vincent and they say "Huh, neat". I show them the Phantom and they say "Dan what the fuck is this?".

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Catherine was, broadly, about a normal looking guy in a pretty normal situation (at face value). I show someone a picture of Vincent and they say "Huh, neat". I show them the Phantom and they say "Dan what the fuck is this?".

And I assume this extends to when you show someone a picture of Vincent with goat horns, in nothing but his underwear holding a pillow?

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

P5 looks like it has more appeal to the West than any other internally developed Atlus game outside of strange journey (which was on the wrong platform). The music and art especially.

 

[Lunar15]

Ironically, Fire Emblem is a series that has gotten more popular in the west the more "Anime" it has become.

 

[Squire]

You like anime though, so it seems normal to you.

Like I have a friend who listens to really heavy music, and doesn't understand how weird it sounds to people who don't listen to it.

Anime is niche and weird, and the further you are from it, the worse it is. Persona is a really fucking well made game, but Persona 5 is entrenched in the stylings of Japanese media. Which is fine, because that's what they want to make. But I think that it would absolutely do better in the west if those stylings were dialed back a little. Catherine was, broadly, about a normal looking guy in a pretty normal situation (at face value). I show someone a picture of Vincent and they say "Huh, neat". I show them the Phantom and they say "Dan what the fuck is this?".

FWIW, no, I'm stepping outside of myself and making the assessment that, no, what's on display here just really isn't all that weird. And I'm not a good barometer to make the argument that it is and I'm not sensitive to it anyway because I actively dislike most modern anime anyway, and primarily because of current trends in art/character design on top of it. I'm far closer to the people you're convinced won't be sold on this.

There's already interest in P5 from the non-anime liking portion of the gaming press and I know you've seen the same dozen LTTP threads I have over the past four years that tend to start with "I don't like anime..." and end with "...but I love P4G."

I think people less wired into games than press or GAFfers are just as capable of housing that attitude.

 

[Dantis]

Ironically, Fire Emblem is a series that has gotten more popular in the west the more "Anime" it has become.

Now that is a valid point.

I feel like it being on a handheld has some part in that though. I know a lot of people who abhor anime and JRPGs, but who are quite happy to dedicate tens of hours to Pokemon.

I think people less wired into games than press or GAFfers are just as capable of housing that attitude.

I don't. Straight up. I've shown P5 to people. Not a huge amount of people, but more than is probably expected or reasonable. Broadly speaking, the response was not positive. A lot of those same people have either played or are aware of Catherine.

It's entirely anecdotal, but I'm not writing a journalistic piece. Based on what I've seen, and what I do see in Persona 5, I don't think it will have that broad an appeal.

What do these people think of superhero costumes?

Most of the people I've shown it to are close friends. The type of people I see Marvel films with, if that's what you mean.

 

[Soriku]

I show someone a picture of Vincent and they say "Huh, neat". I show them the Phantom and they say "Dan what the fuck is this?".

What do these people think of superhero costumes?