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[Cheerilee]

If he's forced to justify the gamepad and that it's a source of headache, why does he and the rest of Nintendo insist on producing gimmicky shit? Miyamoto does have input on the design of Nintendo consoles, and it seems that in the past two generation, he's said something like the above. Either he doesn't want to force waggle on consumers, or that he's trying to justify something or another.

Here's a solution: stop trying to be cute with the controller and adhere to something conventional, instead of feeding us gimmicks and creating headaches for yourself down the line.

The thing is, contrary to the idea of Nintendo being a company that designs hardware around the wishlist of the greatest first party in the world, Nintendo is a company in search of USP, a Unique Selling Proposition. That thing which makes you different from all of your competitors.

Nintendo had total market domination with the NES, and they fought tooth-and-nail to try and hang onto that position, but at the first slip they lost ~50% to someone else. Holding on to what you have is hard. They revolutionized analog control in videogames, and a year later Sony took their idea and one-upped it. More lost marketshare. GameCube tried to do business the sensible way, but it just seemed to prove that Nintendo isn't very good at that.

Wii was a final desperation move, and it worked beyond Nintendo's wildest dreams. Nintendo's handheld dominance was seriously threatened by the PSP, and they came up with the DS, which became the biggest Nintendo product of all time. The lesson was clear, Nintendo needs big ideas that can't easily be copied by their competitors. That's why WiiU had the GamePad and 3DS had 3D. Because Nintendo feels they need to stay one step ahead with the gimmicks.

IIRC, I was watching a TV interview with Reggie back when Nintendo was high on Wii success, and the interviewer asked if now was a good time for Nintendo to try and solidify their comeback by embracing industry trends and shoring up places where they were obviously weak, but Reggie laughed at the idea of "industry trends", because Nintendo is the industry trend. Nintendo would only move beyond Wii when they found another USP worth moving to, and yes, after they do that they will obviously also include all of those niggling little wishlist items that the rest of the industry clamors for, because Nintendo is a benevolent ruler.

That's why I worry for Nintendo when I hear that people won't even confirm the nature of NX. They're still stuck on the idea that they need to be unique and revolutionary at all times in order to stand a chance.

 

[Pro from Dover]

Holy shit, that bonus bit was brutal.

But not wrong.

 

[Toxi]

.

 

[Refreshment.01]

i think from a creativity stand point at least, clearly Mr. Miyamoto still has the spark.

When the Gamepad was announced, of the several ideas for game concepts that came to my mind one was about the many possibilities that the Gamepad could bring to the Tower Defense or Strategy genres:

Or a game centered around controlling a vehicle with simulation aspects, something like Steel Battallion or possibly a new entry in the series:

We got 2 games in those genres that made good use of the device in the same day no less, so i guess the gears of his mind still spin quite smoothly.

2 games? You're satisfied with 2 games? Especially when the GamePad isn't even really necessary considering those can be done on every other console?

Well those 2 games were in the same day. We got many others even since launch day. The thing is we didn't get enough 3rd party support due to the sales performance,

Considering, the support for the entire Wii U came mainly from just the 1st party publisher, we got a decent amount of games that made good use of the Gamepad.

 

[Already Torn]

The GamePad didn't bring any new possibilities to Tower Defense though, and a tower defense game doesn't justify adding $100 to the hardware cost. It's embarrassing.

 

[Servbot24]

i think from a creativity stand point at least, clearly Mr. Miyamoto still has the spark.

When the Gamepad was announced, of the several ideas for game concepts that came to my mind was for something like Steel Battallion or possibly a new entry in the series:

Or the many possibilities that the Gamepad could bring to the Tower Defense genre:

We got 2 games in those genres that made good use of the device, so i guess the gears of his mind still spin quite smoothly.

2 games? You're satisfied with 2 games? Especially when the GamePad isn't even really necessary considering those can be done on every other console?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

2 games? You're satisfied with 2 games? Especially when the GamePad isn't even really necessary considering those can be done on every other console?

Some people's satisfaction thresholds are atypical and don't reflect a meaningful proportion of the general population

 

[Refreshment.01]

2 games? You're satisfied with 2 games? Especially when the GamePad isn't even really necessary considering those can be done on every other console?

Same was said about the Wii games, yet it worked in the opposite sense:

The general population was satisfied with the Wii, yet the "hardcore" message board warriors always said there weren't games that justified the use of the Wii Remote. i guess in there, the tastes of the "mayority" don't matter. XD

Basically a similar conduct for both platforms, people ignore the examples that disaprove their views when in fact they exist.

im not interested in claiming that they are plenty or few games that use the Gamepad in a meaningful way, the important thing is that there are, so way ignore them? Even outside of how exactly having a screen on a controller affects gameplay, there's just a lot of good uses for having a touch screen in terms of interface and convenience.

i think having a touch screen for a controller in 2017 makes more sense that it did it in 2012. And the knowledge accumulated could end up conceiving a device that is more revolutionary than evolutionary as the Gamepad was.

As for Mr. Miyamoto, which is the point of this thread, like i said he did end up coming with two fiting game conceps for the Gamepad. The Robot game didn't look much interesting, maybe that is way we haven't heard of it much after the unveil. But that did also serve it's purpose, that's is how the creative process works after all.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Is Miyamoto a Detriment to Nintendo?

This video came up in my feed from someone named BriHard. Probably due to recommendations algorithm after having watched Bosman's video.

It's only 2 weeks old, but is almost the same train of thought, and he goes as far as saying "a friend even called him George Lucas" too.

Right or wrong, I hate when mimetic narratives like this start getting simultaneously pushed by fans and critics, to reclaim creative legacies from the people who gave them decades of joy. It makes me glad that Jack Kirby died before the internet and before MCU.

 

[TI82]

I'll say it again, Miyamoto needs to retire. He has graced us with many treasures but as of late his work has become subpar. He should be enjoying his past, not spoiling it with what he does now. just my opinion of course

 

[Surface of Me]

Jeez, this thread has a lot going on. Video had some points, but overall it just comes across like Bosman has an absolute bone to pick with Nintendo and now is his chance to strike! Comes off as very bullyish.

The last bit about "story doesnt matter" is especially hypocritical and childish. He acts like Miyamoto is committing an unforgivable sin by not caring about story, when at the same time is yelling from the roof tops "STORY HAS TO MATTER IN EVERY GAME BECAUSE I LIKE STORIES". It should be done on a game by game basis, and as a fan of Star Fox, story doesnt matter. You can bitch about it, but that doesnt make it a valid criticism. Just like going into a drama film and leaving bitching about "I didnt even laugh out loud once" isn't a valid criticism.

 

[Already Torn]

Jeez, this thread has a lot going on. Video had some points, but overall it just comes across like Bosman has an absolute bone to pick with Nintendo and now is his chance to strike! Comes off as very bullyish.

The last bit about "story doesnt matter" is especially hypocritical and childish. He acts like Miyamoto is committing an unforgivable sin by not caring about story, when at the same time is yelling from the roof tops "STORY HAS TO MATTER IN EVERY GAME BECAUSE I LIKE STORIES". It should be done on a game by game basis, and as a fan of Star Fox, story doesnt matter. You can bitch about it, but that doesnt make it a valid criticism. Just like going into a drama film and leaving bitching about "I didnt even laugh out loud once" isn't a valid criticism.

If story doesn't matter in Star Fox then why did Miyamoto delay the game for half a year to work on the story? Obviously he thinks it's important. There's also a difference between story not mattering and making the game a scene-for-scene retread, the beginning and ending even have identical lines.

And how does it come across as bullying? Because it recognizes that Miyamoto failed? Even if you want to ignore the obvious story problems, he failed at his mission.

 

[TI82]

If story doesn't matter in Star Fox then why did Miyamoto delay the game for half a year to work on the story? Obviously he thinks it's important. There's also a difference between story not mattering and making the game a scene-for-scene retread, the beginning and ending even have identical lines.

And how does it come across as bullying? Because it recognizes that Miyamoto failed? Even if you want to ignore the obvious story problems, he failed at his mission.

Not to mention his lack of understanding what games need storyline. Famed Mario RPG series? Nah, cut the story. Arcade space shooter? Yes, delay the game to reshape the story it is very important.

Miyamoto please

 

[NavyPharaoh]

Jeez, this thread has a lot going on. Video had some points, but overall it just comes across like Bosman has an absolute bone to pick with Nintendo and now is his chance to strike! Comes off as very bullyish.

The last bit about "story doesnt matter" is especially hypocritical and childish. He acts like Miyamoto is committing an unforgivable sin by not caring about story, when at the same time is yelling from the roof tops "STORY HAS TO MATTER IN EVERY GAME BECAUSE I LIKE STORIES". It should be done on a game by game basis, and as a fan of Star Fox, story doesnt matter. You can bitch about it, but that doesnt make it a valid criticism. Just like going into a drama film and leaving bitching about "I didnt even laugh out loud once" isn't a valid criticism.

Bosman is a Nintendo fan, so if he does have a bone to pick he has a right. No one on GT errrr, Ez Allies talks about Nintendo as much as Bosman. If anything this is a fan that has become fed up.

Reading that second video makes it sound like you didn't even watch the video. Story doesn't matter in all games, but when you delay a game to work on story and cutscenes you don't expect it turn out like Star Fox. Especially since this is a remake of the N64 story in the first place.

 

[Oddish1]

Thinking about it more and more, this is kind of a weird video. Like, I think the purpose of Bosman at home is to give it a casual unscripted feel. But then he brings out the developer quotes and interviews and then it gives the video the impression that he intends to be much more in depth than he ends up being. There's not much balance or nuance to which quotes he wants to bring and it all ends up being a "well I guess Miyamoto sucks now" because of one game.

Feels too scripted to be an off-the-cuff airing of grievances, but too shallow to be a really in depth of why he thinks Star Fox Zero failed. At the end, I think the video only really accomplishes preaching to the choir of people who already don't like Miyamoto.

 

[TI82]

Thinking about it more and more, this is kind of a weird video. Like, I think the purpose of Bosman at home is to give it a casual unscripted feel. But then he brings out the developer quotes and interviews and then it gives the video the impression that he intends to be much more in depth than he ends up being. There's not much balance or nuance to which quotes he wants to bring and it all ends up being a "well I guess Miyamoto sucks now" because of one game.

Feels too scripted to be an off-the-cuff airing of grievances, but too shallow to be a really in depth of why he thinks Star Fox Zero failed. At the end, I think the video only really accomplishes preaching to the choir of people who already don't like Miyamoto.

I think he was trying to make it seem a little more cohesive since he knows people would get defensive (as we have already seen happening in this thread) and claim it was just his opinions. By stating about others with similar ideas or referencing specific things it is more... solid.

 

[Zomba13]

If story doesn't matter in Star Fox then why did Miyamoto delay the game for half a year to work on the story? Obviously he thinks it's important. There's also a difference between story not mattering and making the game a scene-for-scene retread, the beginning and ending even have identical lines.

And how does it come across as bullying? Because it recognizes that Miyamoto failed? Even if you want to ignore the obvious story problems, he failed at his mission.

Eaxctly.

People don't seem to understand that when people are talking about Star Fox Zero's story, they aren't doing it because "omg, we need a deep, epic space opera!" or even because SF needs a good, well written story, they are doing it because Miyamoto himself cited extra work on the cut-scenes as part of the reason it was delayed. That indicates that story, or at least the presentation of plot was important enough in this game to Miyamoto that he decided it needed more work. It's Miyamoto saying the story was important, not us.

And if Miyamoto did in fact want extra time put into the cutscenes to tell a better story then yeah, he failed badly at that because what little story there is in the game is 90% ripped from SF64, even some lines of dialogue are exactly the same. And the cutscenes are fine, yeah, but nothing that shows extra work was put in.


There is also the way that if the portal stuff really was added at the last minute then the stuff about needing time to work on the cutscenes wasn't to improve the story, but to just account for these random portals, and it's just been misunderstood as Miyamoto wanting to have a good story.

 

[oni-link]

2 games? You're satisfied with 2 games? Especially when the GamePad isn't even really necessary considering those can be done on every other console?

It's amazing the gamepad still has those that want to defend it

It's great for off TV play, but other than making a menu or map a little more convenient it adds nothing substantial to any of the games that use it

Patch out that stuff and those games are still great, if anything they're great in spite of the gamepad, not because of it

It's ironic that a standard controller would be a breath of fresh air for Nintendo at this point

I'll say it again, Miyamoto needs to retire. He has graced us with many treasures but as of late his work has become subpar. He should be enjoying his past, not spoiling it with what he does now. just my opinion of course

I don't think he needs to go, but he's being asked to do the impossible, you can't salvage a bad idea.

His mission was to make games that prove the gamepad was worthwhile. Second screen gaming is simply not a good idea, you could have had Valve, Rockstar or Naughty Dog trying to complete that mission and they'd have failed. It's a cute idea and it's nice to have the map visible off the screen, but the soon as you try and integrate both screens into the gameplay it falls apart

He made the Pikmin games recently and those were fantastic, he still has it, and I'm sure Pikmin 4 will be fantastic as well

The problem was Nintendo betting it all on a poor USP, and then hoping Miyamoto could somehow show people that wasn't a crap idea, since now they're stuck with something that adds little value to the system but keeps the price point too high to justify it

Let's nope the NX has a standard controller

 

[TI82]

It's great for off TV play, but other than making a menu or map a little more convenient it adds nothing substantial to any of the games that use it

Feel the same way about the dualscreen on the DS and 3DS.

 

[Theognosis]

I feel gaming needs Myiamoto even more. There's an high chance that videogames are going to be brainless online games or movies with little to no interaction. Loose Nintendo and your going to loose gaming.

Yep. Kyle wants all video games to have interesting stories. Stories. Stories. Stories... Blah blah blah.

Go watch a movie, Kyle.

 

[Oddish1]

I think he was trying to make it seem a little more cohesive since he knows people would get defensive (as we have already seen happening in this thread) and claim it was just his opinions. By stating about others with similar ideas or referencing specific things it is more... solid.

I don't think what he did would stop people from being defensive (obviously), I think if anything the way he did it would annoy Nintendo fans the most.

If it was just a full on frustrated rant, about what he thinks Nintendo and Miyamoto were doing wrong, and, like I said, a blatant airing of grievances, then I think it might have gone over a bit better. Then he could more fully say it was just his opinion and needed to get it off his chest.

Similarly, if it was more analytical, and he tried to bring to a more discussion like tone to think about; why the game was a failure, what happened in development, is it Miyamoto's fault, is it Nintendo's fault, with the Wii U the way it is could it be a success?
Things like that.

Instead it's weirdly halfway, where he's using metacritic to argue the game's "objective" failure and he goes into why the story is terrible (and I liked that part of the video, partly because it felt like a ventilation rant which is what I wanted), but makes the cutscenes and story out to be the sole reason for the game's delay, which they weren't.

If anything I think the video lacks cohesion. I think people's distaste for the ending bit kind of explains what I think the video lacks. It is bitter, and that would be fine if it was smart, but it isn't. We know Miyamoto doesn't have a problem with the inklings or female characters. It's meant to laugh at a Miyamoto that doesn't exist except for what people want to imagine Miyamoto is like.

 

[oni-link]

Feel the same way about the dualscreen on the DS and 3DS.

That's not the same, those don't work in the same way

For a start both screens are always visible at the same time. Unless you hold the gamepad in front of you as you play the Wii U that isn't giving you the same experience

Even with a map on the gamepad, you're looking away from the TV and down to the gamepad to see it, it's a pause in all but name

Even the DS/3DS don't have many games that use the 2nd screen as more than a map/menu, and that's not a good enough reason to sell a system on

 

[Fahzgoolin]

kyle clearly said he isn't painting him out to be a bad guy.

he just failed miserably at his task of making games utilize the gamepad in a satisfactory way.

the bonus bit was making fun of Nintendo tropes, which Miyamoto has had influence over. it was for fun.

whats so hard to understand

 

[TI82]

I don't think what he did would stop people from being defensive (obviously), I think if anything the way he did it would annoy Nintendo fans the most.

If it was just a full on frustrated rant, about what he thinks Nintendo and Miyamoto were doing wrong, and, like I said, a blatant airing of grievances, then I think it might have gone over a bit better. Then he could more fully say it was just his opinion and needed to get it off his chest.

Similarly, if it was more analytical, and he tried to bring to a more discussion like tone to think about; why the game was a failure, what happened in development, is it Miyamoto's fault, is it Nintendo's fault, with the Wii U the way it is could it be a success?
Things like that.

Instead it's weirdly halfway, where he's using metacritic to argue the game's "objective" failure and he goes into why the story is terrible (and I liked that part of the video, partly because it felt like a ventilation rant which is what I wanted), but makes the cutscenes and story out to be the sole reason for the game's delay, which they weren't.

If anything I think the video lacks cohesion. I think people's distaste for the ending bit kind of explains what I think the video lacks. It is bitter, and that would be fine if it was smart, but it isn't. We know Miyamoto doesn't have a problem with the inklings or female characters. It's meant to laugh at a Miyamoto that doesn't exist except for what people want to imagine Miyamoto is like.

He does say that metacritic isn't the best, just more of a aggregate but does show that a lot of people had similar issues. And I just want to say that I also think that end was unneeded.

That's not the same, those don't work in the same way

For a start both screens are always visible at the same time. Unless you hold the gamepad in front of you as you play the Wii U that isn't giving you the same experience

Even with a map on the gamepad, you're looking away from the TV and down to the gamepad to see it, it's a pause in all but name

Even the DS/3DS don't have many games that use the 2nd screen as more than a map/menu, and that's not a good enough reason to sell a system on

I was just saying that the 3DS/DS inspired the Wii U but I don't think they have a good idea either so its a shit idea based on an already less than good idea.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

kyle clearly said he isn't painting him out to be a bad guy.

he just failed miserably at his task of making games utilize the gamepad in a satisfactory way.

the bonus bit was making fun of Nintendo tropes, which Miyamoto has had influence over. it was for fun.

whats so hard to understand

Dont you see, Bosman was being a bully to poor Nintendo and Miyamoto because he just isnt a Nintendo fan and doesnt understand the pure genius that they have. He clearly also misled his audience with his casual look of the video while also being prepared with evidence to back up his thoughts.

I mean, the industry needs Nintendo because otherwise the whole industry would become a F2P online mess and Nintendo are the only ones who truly innovate, even when the market doesnt want or need those innovations...

 

[Aters]

Yep. Kyle wants all video games to have interesting stories. Stories. Stories. Stories... Blah blah blah.

Go watch a movie, Kyle.

What's wrong with asking a serviceable story in videogames? Doesn't it make you feel better if you play as a character you care about? I mean look at DOOM. The story is as simple as you can get, but it's not stupid at least.

 

[encephalon]

Feel the same way about the dualscreen on the DS and 3DS.

They're effectively one screen, or at least that's true in the case of the DS.

 

[TI82]

They're effectively one screen, or at least that's true in the case of the DS.

Even then it wasn't used in monumental ways (outside of a handful of games). One big screen ala the PSP and Vita is a better option in my opinion.

 

[Domaje]

Yep. Kyle wants all video games to have interesting stories. Stories. Stories. Stories... Blah blah blah.

Go watch a movie, Kyle.

This.

Also, his arguments are so poor he needs to bring in metacritic and sales. Ffs give me a break.

 

[yurinka]

Well, I keep thinking this since the start of WiiU. Or well, the Wii.

They did many great games and Wii Sports was an outstanding usage for the casual crowd, but for the traditional core/hardcore player I don't remember cases of something that couldn't be done (and maybe faster, more accurate or better) with a normal pad with maybe gyros.

Seeing that the casual crowd isn't there anymore, and that traditional controls work better for traditional games, maybe they should go back to focus on more traditional controls.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well, I keep thinking this since the start of WiiU. Or well, the Wii.

They did many great games and Wii Sports was an outstanding usage for the casual crowd, but for the traditional core/hardcore player I don't remember cases of something that couldn't be done (and maybe faster, more accurate or better) with a normal pad with maybe gyros.

Seeing that the casual crowd isn't there anymore, and that traditional controls work better for traditional games, maybe they should go back to focus on more traditional controls.

It's not about traditionnal controls. It's about good controls.
Wiimote controls would've been perfect for Star Fox.

 

[nynt9]

This.

Also, his arguments are so poor he needs to bring in metacritic and sales. Ffs give me a break.

It's always amusing when people need to misrepresent someone's position to discredit them instead of arguing against them.

He doesn't say every game needs a story, he says Miyamoto said the game needs a better story yet failed to deliver on that.

He doesn't say metacritic or sales are an indicator of the quality of the game. He says it's an indicator of the reception. If the game was trying to justify the gamepad, it was a critical failure. Critics didn't like it so in that sense it was not justified. Player reception has been mixed as well.

 

[Zomba13]

It's always amusing when people need to misrepresent someone's position to discredit them instead of arguing against them.

He doesn't say every game needs a story, he says Miyamoto said the game needs a better story yet failed to deliver on that.

He doesn't say metacritic or sales are an indicator of the quality of the game. He says it's an indicator of the reception. If the game was trying to justify the gamepad, it was a critical failure. Critics didn't like it so in that sense it was not justified. Player reception has been mixed as well.

There is no point, they've not watched the video or if they have they don't understand the words from Kyle's mouth because he decided to be casual and frame it as a story with chapters and you don't need stories so it automatically sucks.

 

[skypunch]

He made the Pikmin games recently and those were fantastic, he still has it, and I'm sure Pikmin 4 will be fantastic as well

Miyamoto didn't "make" the Pikmin games. And Shigefumi Hino & Yuji Kando directed Pikmin 3.

Miyamoto is overrated. Always has been. He's pretty much just a face.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

Yep. Kyle wants all video games to have interesting stories. Stories. Stories. Stories... Blah blah blah.

Go watch a movie, Kyle.

Pokemon is like his favourite game series, so I think it's unfair to say he only cares about stories.

He does love his context, though!

 

[Domaje]

There is no point, they've not watched the video or if they have they don't understand the words from Kyle's mouth because he decided to be casual and frame it as a story with chapters and you don't need stories so it automatically sucks.

There is no point, I bet that most of you haven't even tried the game.

 

[Zomba13]

There is no point, I bet that most of you haven't even tried the game.

But you haven't watched the video right? Or then you'd know by agreeing with Mr "waaah Kyle just wants story!" that he didn't understand the sole reason Kyle talks about the story of SF0 so much is because glorious Mr Miyamoto cited additional work on the cutscenes and story as part of the reason for the delay. It was Miyamoto who wanted to make the SF0 story better. Kyle is just talking about the SF0 story (how much of it doesn't matter and how little there is regarding both character and plot development) because Miyamoto cited that as somewhere they needed to improve and it's clear they failed at that. Same as Kyle using Metacritic (a review score aggregate) to show how it met mixed critical reception and wasn't the overwhelming success for the Gamepad that Miyamoto aimed to make.

Spoiler

Also I've beaten SF0. Around 5 or 6 hours to get all the stages, can't remember. check my post fairly early in the OT because I got it a day before release(EDIT: Actually late in the review thread because the OT wasn't up by the time I beat it). It's a fine game, the motion control aiming is great but it suffers due to the crosshairs on the TV being lined up for shots from the cockpit view meaning if you want to use the TV screen and the motion controls without swapping your view your shots will be inaccurate and the swapping screens doesn't work that well because each screen lacks information the other provides.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Yep. Kyle wants all video games to have interesting stories. Stories. Stories. Stories... Blah blah blah.

Go watch a movie, Kyle.

But StarFox Zero does have a story, so the point Kyle makes is that if you make a game with story you should try to make it interesting.

 

[jariw]

If story doesn't matter in Star Fox then why did Miyamoto delay the game for half a year to work on the story?

He didn't delay the game because of the story, but because the levels was redesigned. The test players didn't appreciate the short levels that was the original intention of the game.

If Miyamoto would need half a year to work on the story of Star Fox Zero, the development of the Mario Galaxy story would take 30 years.

Miyamoto didn't "make" the Pikmin games. And Shigefumi Hino & Yuji Kando directed Pikmin 3.

Miyamoto is overrated. Always has been. He's pretty much just a face.

In the same way, Miyamoto didn't "make" the original Donkey Kong, Zelda or Mario games? And Miyamoto didn't direct Star Fox Zero, so what's the point of the Bosman video?

 

[TI82]

Miyamoto didn't "make" the Pikmin games. And Shigefumi Hino & Yuji Kando directed Pikmin 3.

Miyamoto is overrated. Always has been. He's pretty much just a face.

A face that likes to meddle in current games.

on DKCR:

Tanabe: One new ability for Donkey Kong is the ability to blow out his breath. For example, if he blows on dandelion puffs, an item can appear.

Iwata: Whose idea was that?

Tanabe: Miyamoto-san's. He told us early on in development that he definitely wanted us to put that in.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._shigeru_miyamotos_role_in_the_games_downfall

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-more-friendly-steve-jobs-but-just-as-cutting

 

[Zomba13]

He didn't delay the game because of the story, but because the levels was redesigned. The test players didn't appreciate the short levels that was the original intention of the game.

If Miyamoto would need half a year to work on the story of Star Fox Zero, the development of the Mario Galaxy story would take 30 years.

But there is the message from Miyamoto posted on facebook where he specifically calls out "perfecting the tone of the cut scenes" as part of the reason for the delay. Unless they meant colour tone I can only imagine he meant tone in regards to story.

A face that likes to meddle in current games.

on DKCR:



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._shigeru_miyamotos_role_in_the_games_downfall

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-more-friendly-steve-jobs-but-just-as-cutting

Wow, he was behind that? I always thought that was a weird and stupid ability and I didn't play on the Wii (3DS version here) but wasn't that a shake or some motion instead of a button?

 

[Oddish1]

A face that likes to meddle in current games.

on DKCR:



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._shigeru_miyamotos_role_in_the_games_downfall

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-more-friendly-steve-jobs-but-just-as-cutting

What's with the links? A Nintendo hire up being upset with poor spending isn't unusual, and the second link is absolutely positive about Miyamoto.

What's more, I think the examples used to discredit Miyamoto are a little cherry-picked. There was a discussion a few pages back about how Miyamoto upending the tea table for ALBW positively impacted the game, he also offered advice and guidance to the Splatoon team as well, just as he does to most EPD games.

 

[TI82]

Wow, he was behind that? I always thought that was a weird and stupid ability and I didn't play on the Wii (3DS version here) but wasn't that a shake or some motion instead of a button?

Yeah... Rumor is Miyamoto is behind the waggle controls too though nothing confirming it.

What's with the links? A Nintendo hire up being upset with poor spending isn't unusual, and the second link is absolutely positive about Miyamoto.

What's more, I think the examples used to discredit Miyamoto are a little cherry-picked. There was a discussion a few pages back about how Miyamoto upending the tea table for ALBW positively impacted the game, he also offered advice and guidance to the Splatoon team as well, just as he does to most EPD games.

Miyamoto effectively buried an internal team, and the third article is showing how hands on he is (which isnt always a good thing. Need we mention the paper Mario or Mario Galaxy debacle?)

 

[LordRaptor]

Right or wrong, I hate when mimetic narratives like this start getting simultaneously pushed by fans and critics, to reclaim creative legacies from the people who gave them decades of joy. It makes me glad that Jack Kirby died before the internet and before MCU.

Pretty astute observation, imo.
No wonder outside of indies nobody creative talks about their craft any more, and we just get the suits talking numbers and giving out carefully prepared bland PR

 

[Domaje]

But you haven't watched the video right? Or then you'd know by agreeing with Mr "waaah Kyle just wants story!" that he didn't understand the sole reason Kyle talks about the story of SF0 so much is because glorious Mr Miyamoto cited additional work on the cutscenes and story as part of the reason for the delay. It was Miyamoto who wanted to make the SF0 story better. Kyle is just talking about the SF0 story (how much of it doesn't matter and how little there is regarding both character and plot development) because Miyamoto cited that as somewhere they needed to improve and it's clear they failed at that. Same as Kyle using Metacritic (a review score aggregate) to show how it met mixed critical reception and wasn't the overwhelming success for the Gamepad that Miyamoto aimed to make.

Spoiler

Also I've beaten SF0. Around 5 or 6 hours to get all the stages, can't remember. check my post fairly early in the OT because I got it a day before release(EDIT: Actually late in the review thread because the OT wasn't up by the time I beat it). It's a fine game, the motion control aiming is great but it suffers due to the crosshairs on the TV being lined up for shots from the cockpit view meaning if you want to use the TV screen and the motion controls without swapping your view your shots will be inaccurate and the swapping screens doesn't work that well because each screen lacks information the other provides.

SWERY failed with Deadly Premonition. He didn't implemented well the shooting mechanics.

Taro Yoko failed with Nier because the combat mechanics are lacking.

Miyazaki failed with Demon's Soul. He put in the game the world tendency but it was a mess.

We can go on with the nitpicking. Sure Miyamoto wanted to improve the story. He probably failed at that, but it should be obvious that creating a great story wasn't his main focus. His priority was to make an innovative control system that makes good use of the gamepad. I would say that despite the poor reviews and sales (I guess) the control system is a big success. Yeah, it requires a learning curve and is not super intuitive at first, but the dual screen system gives you a level of precision and of control on the game that wouldn't be possible with traditional controls systems.

 

[Jazzem]

Whatever one's thoughts on Miyamoto, can we avoid the hyperbolic claim of him being a George Lucas? I mean...I don't think people realise the weight of making that comparison o_o

Right or wrong, I hate when mimetic narratives like this start getting simultaneously pushed by fans and critics, to reclaim creative legacies from the people who gave them decades of joy. It makes me glad that Jack Kirby died before the internet and before MCU.

I can't agree with this enough.

 

[BBboy20]

Right or wrong, I hate when mimetic narratives like this start getting simultaneously pushed by fans and critics, to reclaim creative legacies from the people who gave them decades of joy. It makes me glad that Jack Kirby died before the internet and before MCU.

I think you just summarized this thread.

 

[nynt9]

SWERY failed with Deadly Premonition. He didn't implemented well the shooting mechanics.

Taro Yoko failed with Nier because the combat mechanics are lacking.

Miyazaki failed with Demon's Soul. He put in the game the world tendency but it was a mess.

We can go on with the nitpicking. Sure Miyamoto wanted to improve the story. He probably failed at that, but it should be obvious that creating a great story wasn't his main focus. His priority was to make an innovative control system that makes good use of the gamepad. I would say that despite the poor reviews and sales (I guess) the control system is a big success. Yeah, it requires a learning curve and is not super intuitive at first, but the dual screen system gives you a level of precision and of control on the game that wouldn't be possible with traditional controls systems.

I mean, those games fail on certain levels but from a holistic perspective they're gems. But we're not talking about a holistic view here. Miyamoto's goal was to justify the gamepad to the larger gaming audience with these controls, and by all observable metrics that has not hapoened. Simple as that.

As for the controls themselves, I'm a big fan of gyro. I love it in Killzone mercenary, Splatoon and gravity rush and with the Steam controller, however SFZ's implementation of the gyro was horrible for me. I'm not arguing against gyro, I'm arguing for better gyro. This is one of the worst gyro based control systems I've encountered in a game.

 

[Oddish1]

Yeah... Rumor is Miyamoto is behind the waggle controls too though nothing confirming it.



Miyamoto effectively buried an internal team, and the third article is showing how hands on he is (which isnt always a good thing. Need we mention the paper Mario or Mario Galaxy debacle?)

That's not what either article says? The first one is claiming that Miyamoto was upset over the money spent on cutscenes and restricted their use, but a lot of Nintendo's and NST's failings on Project HAMMER he had nothing to do with. The other article is just Cuthbert saying Miyamoto is a great project manager with the author interjecting at one point that Miyamoto is fairly hands-on with most Nintendo games, which isn't surprising since most if not all EAD (or EPD now) Nintendo games go through him at some point.

 

[BGBW]

There's a massive difference between saying Miyamoto failed to achieve what he set out to do with Star Fox and saying he's been a hack for who knows how long and should retire. Which way does this thread want to go?