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[Proelite]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run games on the base hardware (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games, they may run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

Scorpio will only be useful if you have a Rift or a 4k TV, otherwise it'll run the same as a very polished PS4 game with 4x MSAA.

Developers won't be doing extra work to increase graphical fidelity such as lighting on shadows in 1080p mode for Scorpio games. Too much work for no gain. Simplest thing to do is just downscale from 4k resolutions.

 

[c0de]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run base hardware games (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games, they may run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

Almost every engine out there scales with given hardware, especially engine with pc in mind. This is nothing Xbox specific but a question whether an engine is able to scale.

 

[rokkerkory]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run base hardware games (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games, they may run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

Let's not jump to conclusions. Same argument with PS4 and PS4k games.

Since MS is a s/w company, hopefully their games will scale much like PC games on different h/w.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run base hardware games (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games, they may run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

I'd wager much the same as Forza Horizon 2 between 360 and xbone. But probably not as stark

 

[jaypah]

Almost every engine out there scales with given hardware, especially engine with pc in mind. This is nothing Xbox specific but a question whether an engine is able to scale.

Yeah that's a very weird stance to take when PCs are a thing. Interesting train of thought nonetheless.

 

[c0de]

Scorpio will only be useful if you have a Rift or a 4k TV, otherwise it'll run the same as a very polished PS4 game with 4x MSAA.

Sure, pc games only have better aa over consoles ;-)

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

PS4 Neo is being made specifically for VR because it wont be that good without it. Im not entirely sure, but Xbox seems to want a bigger leap than a .5 iteration, as Phil Spencer eluded to recently.

The comments were made by chief technical officer (CTO) working in the industry, talking to Edge Magazine in their latest issue. In issue 294, the source states: "PSVR was going to be terrible on a [launch] PS4. It was going to be truly awful. Something a bit more powerful starts to bring VR into range. If you want to deal with crazy requirements for performance in VR, you absolutely have to do this."

But didn't they say 2x the GPU of the PS4 and probably Polaris?

 

[Blanquito]

To those saying PS4 can't run PSVR, just check the new title of the thread about that. Here's a spoiler: it now includes the word

debunked

 

[Kleegamefan]

Let's not jump to conclusions. Same argument with PS4 and PS4k games.

Since MS is a s/w company, hopefully their games will scale much like PC games on different h/w.

That would be nice and a definite advantage over Neo

 

[Kaako]

Scorpio will only be useful if you have a Rift or a 4k TV, otherwise it'll run the same as a very polished PS4 game with 4x MSAA.

Developers won't be doing extra work to increase graphical fidelity such as lighting on shadows in 1080p mode for Scorpio games. Too much work for no gain. Simplest thing to do is just downscale from 4k resolutions.

Sounds reasonable. This is MS's way of entry to the VR market with that Facebook/Oculus partnership.

 

[Proelite]

Sure, pc games only have better aa over consoles ;-)

It's going to be much more work for devs to upgrade the graphics in 1080p mode.

Not to mention the 4k TV / Rift people would be forced to make a choice to downgrade to 1080p for more graphics or stay at 4k.

 

[DC1]

Just imagine this with the infinite power of the cloud!

Spoiler

funny!

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

People need to let go of the 4k dream happening anytime soon.

 

[ZOONAMI]

People need to let go of the 4k dream happening anytime soon.

If 6TF happens that's plenty for 4k 30fps.

 

[bidguy]

same concern trolling xboners did back then when the power gap between xbone/ps4 came to light only now the sides are switched

"devs wont bother with optimizing for the obviously better hardware"

only the gap seems to be bigger this time around. the flipflopping is hilarious

 

[Kaako]

People need to let go of the 4k dream happening anytime soon.

4K upres. I don't think many are expecting 4K native games on these consoles within a year. 4K upres is very doable and a reality even by the end of this year possibly if PSNEO releases.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Scorpio will only be useful if you have a Rift or a 4k TV, otherwise it'll run the same as a very polished PS4 game with 4x MSAA.

Developers won't be doing extra work to increase graphical fidelity such as lighting on shadows in 1080p mode for Scorpio games. Too much work for no gain. Simplest thing to do is just downscale from 4k resolutions.

And I don't see this as a problem. Image quality will still be better and performance could be too. Also, 4K TV owners will really enjoy the upgrade and they are becoming WAY more common in households. In 18 months 4K TV owners will be quite plentiful.

 

[Odorono]

To those saying PS4 can't run PSVR, just check the new title of the thread about that. Here's a spoiler: it now includes the word

It will obviously be able to run it, just nowhere near as well as the Neo.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

If 6TF happens that's plenty for 4k 30fps.

I forgot people still play at 30fps on consoles, carry on.

 

[c0de]

It's going to be much more work for devs to upgrade the graphics in 1080p mode.

Eh, but they already do that.

 

[SOR5]

People need to let go of the 4k dream happening anytime soon.

Yeah were still not even there yet for a mass-consumer level thing

There might be 1 or 2 games that do it for the novelty, like back when the OG Xbox could do 720p, but it wont be a common thing on consoles yet

 

[Asd202]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

 

[Erimriv]

At 399€ I'll be on board, launch it after E3 2017 and I'll be happy.

 

[otakukidd]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

Well it is polygon.

 

[Proelite]

Eh, but they already do that.

For W10 games yes. Which also translate to Scorpio for W10 games.

For console games thats not releasing on PC they won't do the extra work to support multiple modes for one binary, me thinks.

 

[Compsiox]

I've noticed you've said this at least a couple of times, and others have as well. I'm curious though if this is even possible. I'd personally love to see it happen, even it released around the end of November/early December.

Apparently they've been in talks about it since 2014. This is why I think it will be released this Fall. I hope it does.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I forgot people still play at 30fps on consoles, carry on.

Pretty sure plenty of people play 4k30 on pc. And even at lower resolutions. Not everyone needs 60fps.

Beyond that, 6TF would actually be enough for 4k 60 with mediumish settings.

 

[SneakersSO]

If they make it that much more powerful then the Neo and they put their library on PC as well it can very well work. Heck they just got most of the world to jump onto Windows 10. There's a big plan in play here and if played right they can flat out take over the console market. It's not bold but more so foreseeing the possibilities with such an aggressive approach.

Yeahhh, you are VASTLY overestimating how much power matters in terms of market reception. Its never been a key driver for success, not even in this generation. People don't just buy power, sorry to say. It's never happened before, and won't start now.

I

 

[Risk Breaker]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

Also gave the Xbox One more TFLOPS than it really has, lol. Polygon gonna Polygon.

 

[SOR5]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

Wasnt it around 4.2? or 4.19?

Dont think Polygon should skewer, even if its just a bit

 

[Granadier]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run base hardware games (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games and/or features, they may look or run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like the Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

What even is this. Pure speculation with nothing to back it up.

 

[Eliciel]

soon to an end war will come

 

[Neuromancer]

Honestly, good for them assuming Arthur "Bet Reneger" Gies is right. I've been doing a lot of thinking over the last few months and I've come to the conclusion maybe iterative consoles aren't such a bad idea after all.

 

[0racle]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

 

[D4Danger]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

The Neo numbers are from Austin Walker's original story (1.84x2.25) and the only time they mention a number for the Scorpio is in this line "The current performance target for Microsoft's Scorpio is approximately 6 teraflops.". There's nothing definitive about any of this.

 

[MilkyJoe]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

I think that's a given


Your avatar is literally breaking my eyes

 

[quest]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

You have it wrong all games will work until the following iteration then support for PS4/Xbox one will be dropped. The only exclusives would be VR games for the Scorpio.

If this has a zen CPUs I will be in day 1 and skip the NEO. BC with 360 games would be perfect and pretty much every game would be 1080p/60.

 

[otakukidd]

Got to Ask the people that says they don't have brand loyalty and will go to the most powerful console for gaming. What what would you do if they announce the ps5 for 2018/19 ?

 

[geordiemp]

I think us console owners would be happy with 1080p60 (rock solid capped) and some nice AA.

Anything above that is not necessary unless for VR.

 

[c0de]

For W10 games yes. Which also translate to Scorpio for W10 games.

For console games thats not releasing on PC they won't do the extra work to support multiple modes for one binary, me thinks.

Well, first of all there are not really much games that don't come for pc but only for consoles (especially for Xbox) and whether devs support more configs for a console is also a question of how much more money is involved for them.

 

[0racle]

Got to Ask the people that says they don't have brand loyalty and will go to the most powerful console for gaming. What what would you do if they announce the ps5 for 2018/19 ?

Buy it if its the most powerful thing on the street at that point.

 

[c0de]

Something I noticed I love how Polygon picks the lowest possible TFLOP for PS4K while the highest possible for Scorpio.

So what is the highest possible pick for a ps4k?

 

[Beefy]

Got to Ask the people that says they don't have brand loyalty and will go to the most powerful console for gaming. What what would you do if they announce the ps5 for 2018/19 ?

Wait for the PS5.

 

[oldergamer]

32 CUs @ 1.46 GHz
36 CUs @ 1.30 GHz
40 CUs @ 1.17 GHz
44 CUs @ 1.06 GHz
56 CUs @ 837 MHz
60 CUs @ 732 MHz

For reference R9 Nano is 60CUs @ 1GHz with a TDP of 175W. And that is on 28nm.


Additional requirement of interposer, for which yield is again an issue.

That's hardly proof it's more expensive compared to embedded memory.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

The question is how long that going to take .
If they start making exclusives games for them in next 3 to 4 years .
They will have newer system out by then and it will be 6 to 7 years for the old one.
I don't think much people will care by then .

Also Sony and MS care more about locking you into there eco system than what hardware you buy.
It's one of the reason why MS pushing so much with PC now .

 

[otakukidd]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

Definitely don't see this happening considering we are just getting over cross gen games 2 years in to this gen. They wouldn't throw away 60 million bucks potential buyers.

 

[jeffc919]

You guys are delusional to think these console revisions have set in stone rules that mandate EVERY game run on the old PS4/XBOX.

The new idea of console iterations is new to Sony and Microsoft and its a huge business model change for the industry and they understand the publics apprehension to the whole idea of buying new hardware every few years. Of course they will INITIALLY make it seem like its completely optional upgrade and ALL software from here on it will be compatible but it wont be.

once they are in the wild, I can assure you the rules will change. Exclusives will be made, NEO/Scorpio only titles will come out and the "old" systems will start to phase out. They will need to create concrete advantages to buying new hardware, something both companies want you to do. Optional graphics/FPS is not going to sell consoles.

We see this with apple phones. Sure you dont need to buy a new model every single year but eventually the older phone is not compatible with apps or software updates.

Maybe it falls into a pattern where at a minimum, the 2 most recent platforms are supported by everything. That would seem do-able if the next hardware upgrade is another 3-4 years away. Most games released on last gen for the first couple years of the current gen, and that was on non-common architecture and ~10 year old hardware. Making scalable games that can co-exist on the new consoles and the original PS4/X1 for the next 4 years or so doesn't seem like it will be a problem to me. If you think about it, most devs would have been doing that anyway even if the next platforms to come out followed the traditional generational model. Say for example that a PS5 and X2 released in 2019/2020, most new games would be cross gen for the first couple years until the install base was sufficiently large on the new consoles. There would be a handful of first party system sellers in the early going but those would be the outliers.

 

[SneakersSO]

So they might have backed themselves up into a corner with Scorpio in terms of just how much of that 2TF advantage they can actually use over Neo.

Like Neo, Scorpio is designed to run base hardware games (Xbox One) so unless they allow developers to make Scorpio exclusive games and/or features, they may look or run no better than Neo games, 6TF or no. So using a multiplatform game like, say, Destiny 2 for example, although they may run on a base console (Xbox One/PS4)at perhaps 900p/30fps, unless they allow something like 4K rendering or exclusive graphic features, Scorpio version will look and run just like the Neo version :1080p/60fps.

It will be interesting to see just how much improvement over XB1 games they allow Scorpio games to have without alienating existing Xbox One customers.

This actually goes one step further - for MP experiences, the gameplay is gonna have to be built towards the greatest common denominator, which would still be X1 & PS4 for the foreseeable future. We already know that the policy being set forth for the PS4/Neo are going this route (MP experiences have to be similar & fully compatible between the platforms), and the bits we have heard about Scorpio indicate they are going the same direction (iterative console with full forward compatibility).

So in a theoretical situation involving Destiny 2, you'd still have all versions of the game running at 30fps, max, cause 60 fps would offer a gameplay advantage for Scorpio/Neo owners.

This power jump is specifically for VR. I know people don't want to accept that, but thats what it is.

 

[creatchee]

Scorpio will only be useful if you have a Rift or a 4k TV, otherwise it'll run the same as a very polished PS4 game with 4x MSAA.

Developers won't be doing extra work to increase graphical fidelity such as lighting on shadows in 1080p mode for Scorpio games. Too much work for no gain. Simplest thing to do is just downscale from 4k resolutions.

Yeah, because the only slider on PC games is resolution. /s

 

[Obscuritas]

Apparently they've been in talks about it since 2014. This is why I think it will be released this Fall. I hope it does.

That's not gonna happen.