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[Bitch Pudding]

I'm expecting it'll come 6 months after BUT the same price. Phil quickly got rid of kinect and now they beat the PS4 in price, I highly doubt he will launch higher then Neo.

The very second Sony realizes Scorpio offers higher value for the same money they'll react. All we know is Neo should be cheaper to produce than Scorpio, so they should be able pass that advantage to their customers.

That said, what's stopping Sony from choosing plan B (the rumored $500 PS4 Neo with new CPU instead of the $400 SKU with "just" a beefed up one)?


But the really funny thing here is people thinking MS will be able to deliver a console with 2 TF more performance at the very same price no more than 3 month after Sony launches PS4 Neo. That's not how this works. Scorpio will either cost the same and be released much later, or it will launch at almost the same time and cost more.

 

[thuway]

The very second Sony realizes Scorpio offers higher value for the same money they'll react. All we know is Neo should be cheaper to produce than Scorpio, so they should be able pass that advantage to their customers.

That said, what's stopping Sony from choosing plan B (the rumored $500 PS4 Neo with new CPU instead of the $400 SKU with "just" a beefed up one)?

The amount of consumers interested in your console diminishes considerably when you start pricing things outside of a comfort zone.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

The amount of consumers interested in your console diminishes considerably when you start pricing things outside of a comfort zone.

I guess so, which is why I think both are going to hit that $399 target, which in MS case means a late 2017 release.

 

[wapplew]

The very second Sony realizes Scorpio offers higher value for the same money they'll react. All we know is Neo should be cheaper to produce than Scorpio, so they should be able pass that advantage to their customers.

That said, what's stopping Sony from choosing plan B (the rumored $500 PS4 Neo with new CPU instead of the $400 SKU with "just" a beefed up one)?

Too late for that, dev kit is out, console in production, time to admit Scorpio will be more powerful at the same price or lower and release at the same time or a couple months behind.

Neo is a mistake, it's nothing be trash.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Too late for that, dev kit is out, console in production, time to admit Scorpio will be more powerful at the same price or lower and release at the same time or a couple months behind.

Neo is a mistake, it's nothing be trash.

The first PS4 dev kits had 4 GB RAM . But I agree, Sony's learned a valuable lesson when they introduced a $500+ console the last time.

 

[Trojan]

time to admit Scorpio will be more powerful at the same price or lower and release at the same time or a couple months behind.

Neo is a mistake, it's nothing be trash.

Lol

 

[paradise_circus]

I'm still more interested in the forward compatibility of the current consoles. How will it be handled initially and in the long run?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think it's fucking stupid to release new consoles that early.
even if they will(should) "coexist" with PS4 and Xbone.

I hate the VR trend/thing; so I'm probably the only one.

also: I'm really curious about heat issues.

Your not the only one uninterested in VR and generally apathetic to all of the industry conforming around such a thing.

But that's where they've decided to run. Whether or not it will be successful or not for games in the long run is not the actual issue.

Too late for that, dev kit is out, console in production, time to admit Scorpio will be more powerful at the same price or lower and release at the same time or a couple months behind.

Neo is a mistake, it's nothing be trash.

Lol

 

[Caayn]

The first PS4 dev kits had 4 GB RAM . But I agree, Sony's learned a valuable lesson when they introduced a $500+ console the last time.

Swapping out the APU takes significantly more work and time than swapping out the memory chips. The best they can do is increase the clock but that requires some work as well, although that's a lot easier to do.

I would be really surprised if Sony doesn't have the CPU and GPU set in stone yet, outside of clock speeds.

 

[Primethius]

Unless MS really sells at a huge loss (I doubt it) the current time frames mean that Neo could be up to $100 cheaper by the time Scorpio launches.

And MS, more then anyone, should know how many sales a cheaper price point can get you on Black Friday.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Unless MS really sells at a huge loss (I doubt it) the current time frames mean that Neo could be up to $100 cheaper by the time Scorpio launches.

And MS, more then anyone, should know how many sales a cheaper price point can get you on Black Friday.

Maybe natela wont mind a 1 billion loss. They did it for the 360 rrod

 

[WadeitOut]

Unless MS really sells at a huge loss (I doubt it) the current time frames mean that Neo could be up to $100 cheaper by the time Scorpio launches.

And MS, more then anyone, should know how many sales a cheaper price point can get you on Black Friday.

There are no current time frames. Literally everything is just speculation.

 

[nekkid]

Unless MS really sells at a huge loss (I doubt it) the current time frames mean that Neo could be up to $100 cheaper by the time Scorpio launches.

And MS, more then anyone, should know how many sales a cheaper price point can get you on Black Friday.

Presuming those timescales are right, that may be what MS want: a console that is more expensive and more powerful to contrast their low-power, low-cost XB1, and to differentiate their sales model from Sony. Perhaps mass market is not the target for this console (much like their top-end Surface models, or their Elite controller).

 

[Yoday]

The reason most people assume that the Neo can be upclocked whilst the Scorpio can't, is due to them believing that they would use the same GPU but at different clocks.

Therefore, if the leaks are true and people's general interpretations are also true about the GPU, this would mean the Neo is an underclocked 480 and the Scorpio is a 480 clocked at stock or potentially even higher.

Due to this Sony would have more wiggle room when it comes to thermal and power management (they could for example just like for like clock it if their cooling system would allow it) comparatively to Microsoft who would be at the point that they would need to include an expensive cooling system to go higher as well as they would greatly expand the potential for hardware failure, something which Sony also risk with an upclock.

Please note I'm ignoring CPU differences which would also effect these decisions.

The core idea that they are already the same GPU config with such drastically different clocks is absurd and driven by hopeful thinking of people who want the Neo to be more powerful. The added risk and cooling necessary for that kind of clock speed on an APU in a console would be nightmare. Look at the size of the cooler in the XBO, it's massive, and even then they were only comfortable with a 7% overclock. Do you really believe they are going to be dumb enough to drive their GPU cores up to 1200Mhz or more when Sony is only comfortable with 900Mhz?

 

[Primethius]

There are no current time frames. Literally everything is just speculation.

Right, I'm talking about the rumored time frames that came with the rumored specs and the name.

This could all be drastically different in execution but the basis for my speculation is based on the rumor rather then nothing at all.

Presuming those timescales are right, that may be what MS want: a console that is more expensive and more powerful to contrast their low-power, low-cost XB1, and to differentiate their sales model from Sony. Perhaps mass market is not the target for this console (much like their top-end Surface models, or their Elite controller).

This could certainly be the case. That's why I'm so interested to see it play out. Because in this scenario, MS kind of concedes the sales factor and just aims at a premium product. But that comes with a host of issues by itself (such as getting developers to support the device en masse).

 

[Trojan]

Presuming those timescales are right, that may be what MS want: a console that is more expensive and more powerful to contrast their low-power, low-cost XB1, and to differentiate their sales model from Sony. Perhaps mass market is not the target for this console (much like their top-end Surface models, or their Elite controller).

I think that's their strategy - to have a high tier console and a low tier console - but MS could be facing the Goldilocks problem:

• Their low-tier console is underpowered in the minds of consumers, getting handily-beaten by PS4 now, and in a year will probably be in a less-desirable position vs a PS4. So not sure MS will want to keep supporting X1 much and in the past they've been quick to abandon their "old" consoles.
  
  
• A high tier Scorpio console that is similar to the rumored specs is going to be powerful, but that machine seems like it would be closer to $450-500 unless MS takes a decent loss. Additionally, many devs code to the lowest common denominator for multi-plat releases, which would likely be a slightly less powerful Neo. So you're not unlocking that extra power much initially and it could be a bad price point for mainstream adoption.

They want to make sure dat porridge isn't too hot or too cold.

 

[Sydle]

If Scorpio really is fall 2017, would briefing devs on target specs 15-18 months in advance of launch be in line with expectations?

 

[Trojan]

If Scorpio really is fall 2017, would briefing devs on target specs 15-18 months in advance of launch be in line with expectations?

For target specs? Yes, definitely. But it would be unusual to announce it this early to the public because that would hurt X1 sales in a very real way. Kind of a tough spot for MS if that timing is right. I think they will make a vague allusion to the fact that they have another console coming, but don't announce anything officially for Scorpio until next Feb or March.

 

[c0de]

Hey guise believe it's the year of dreams 2, MINIMUM 7 TFLOPS and prolly more like 10 TFLOPS if you relly think about it. Phil wouldn't want SCORPS wit anything less for 1st class xboxerz

But Sony can easily change things, too. It's no problem to swap everything just before finalizing because they are an electronic company and MS isn't.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Presuming those timescales are right, that may be what MS want: a console that is more expensive and more powerful to contrast their low-power, low-cost XB1, and to differentiate their sales model from Sony. Perhaps mass market is not the target for this console (much like their top-end Surface models, or their Elite controller).

They sell hardware at cost to sell software & subscriptions, don't know if it makes sense for someone like MS to address anything else than the mass market.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Don't forget #creativechatter

This is what I find interesting. If it was all bullshit, is stoking the coals a good idea? Setting up your userbase for a massive disappointment?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Too late for that, dev kit is out, console in production, time to admit Scorpio will be more powerful at the same price or lower and release at the same time or a couple months behind.

Neo is a mistake, it's nothing be trash.

Yup, lol

 

[wapplew]

For target specs? Yes, definitely. But it would be unusual to announce it this early to the public because that would hurt X1 sales in a very real way. Kind of a tough spot for MS if that timing is right. I think they will make a vague allusion to the fact that they have another console coming, but don't announce anything officially for Scorpio until next Feb or March.

It's not like X1 is selling very well now, nothing to hurt.
It's seems to me Xbox one owner want this new machine release already.

 

[clintar]

Wow, I was thinking this above 6TF business was just people joking... You people are seriously thinking they'll just keep raising that up just because things "aren't set in stone"? This thread is all bonkers.

 

[LostDonkey]

The first PS4 dev kits had 4 GB RAM . But I agree, Sony's learned a valuable lesson when they introduced a $500+ console the last time.

Then how was Kill zone running with 5.6gb in the piece DF did way before launch?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Then how was Kill zone running with 5.6gb in the piece DF did way before launch?

Because it didn't run on the first Devkit?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

It's not like X1 is selling very well now, nothing to hurt.
It's seems to me Xbox one owner want this new machine release already.

I'm personally dying to get it. I just hope they don't ditch HDMI-IN in the process. I still want that, and feel like it should be a permanent part of xbox from here on out. With that said, I love the Xbox One as a console, and feel like it offered an awesome value, but with all xbox one games planned to work on scorpio, and even more incredible things sure to be possible on scorpio, why wouldn't I want a scorpio over an xbox one? I'm getting everything , games included, that I love about xbox one in a much more powerful box that is capable of things that couldn't be dreamed of on xbox one, even at a lower resolution.

 

[LostDonkey]

Because it didn't run on the first Devkit?

But it did. And my apologies, it was 4.6gb of ram.

The piece was written on 15/05/2013 after a trip to their studio. The announcement that PS4 was using 8gb wasn't made until the conference and the devs claimed they knew nothing about it, so why was KZ running with 4.6 already.

If they were targeting 4gb then 4.6 for just the game would have been waaaaay out of bounds lol.

 

[Primethius]

It's not like X1 is selling very well now, nothing to hurt.
It's seems to me Xbox one owner want this new machine release already.

It could always be lower. I really liked the suggestion by another poster to release a slim this year alongside a Scorpio announcement (if they really must) to help prevent a sales drop off.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

But it did. And my apologies, it was 4.6gb of ram.

The piece was written on 15/05/2013 after a trip to their studio. The announcement that PS4 was using 8gb wasn't made until the conference and the devs claimed they knew nothing about it, so why was KZ running with 4.6 already.

If they were targeting 4gb then 4.6 for just the game would have been waaaaay out of bounds lol.

8GB RAM was announced in February 2013 at the reveal! The dev kit we saw pictures of in January 2013 I guess had 8GB but before that I don't know if there was a lesser powered/RAM'd one. I thought the dev kits before this were PC's (with 2/4GB dGPU's in them)......?

 

[Obscuritas]

There's no way they'll release it in 2016.

 

[Sydle]

For target specs? Yes, definitely. But it would be unusual to announce it this early to the public because that would hurt X1 sales in a very real way. Kind of a tough spot for MS if that timing is right. I think they will make a vague allusion to the fact that they have another console coming, but don't announce anything officially for Scorpio until next Feb or March.

Thanks. I don't believe they'll announce it this year at all. I was just trying to figure out if a spring release even makes sense, or are all things (Kotaku's sources, the codename "Scorpio" itself, providing target specs on a timeline similar to previous consoles, etc) suggesting a fall release.

For target specs? Yes, definitely. But it would be unusual to announce it this early to the public because that would hurt X1 sales in a very real way. Kind of a tough spot for MS if that timing is right. I think they will make a vague allusion to the fact that they have another console coming, but don't announce anything officially for Scorpio until next Feb or March.

I'm going to take it that Spencer started that back in Feb when he first said we would see them bring new hardware capabilities within a generation and then again with the #creativechatter tweet. I suspect there will be frequent "leaks" over the next 6-9 months.

They're in a tough spot, but there's not a lot they can do on the console front except make the price low enough to lure in new customers for the next year. In the meantime, they could also start putting their marketing weight behind cheaper, more powerful, VR-ready Windows 10 desktops, highlight benefits of UWP with the unified Windows/Xbox store (e.g., the games you buy now will work on any Windows 10 PC or Xbox going forward), expand BC on Xbox One (and maybe PC?), and announce some new IP.

If they are seeking partnership with Oculus Rift if wouldn't hurt to talk up Minecraft VR more. I assume it wouldn't be the only MS IP either, so maybe announce that there are other flagship MS IP being developed for Oculus for holiday 2017.

 

[LostDonkey]

8GB RAM was announced in February 2013 at the reveal! The dev kit we saw pictures of in January 2013 I guess had 8GB but before that I don't know if there was a lesser powered/RAM'd one. I thought the dev kits before this were PC's (with 2/4GB dGPU's in them)......?

All I know is its been reported many devs didn't know about the 8gb and we're targeting 4. If the announcement was made in February and the piece was written in may I wouldn't think 3 months is enough time to re write an entire engine that had been targeting 4gb or less to now allow for up to 8gb.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4



Sounds like Guerrilla Games was working with 4 GB of RAM in mind... instead of the 8 now in the system.

Naughty Dog also seemed to be taken by surprise. Here's the lead Engine and Graphics Programmer from Naughty Dog after last night's event:

Wow.

 

[Trojan]

If they are seeking partnership with Oculus Rift if wouldn't hurt to talk up Minecraft VR.

Minecraft VR is amazing on the Vive...they would definitely be smart to talk this up for their next machine and I'm pretty sure this will be a main pillar of the console.

 

[justsomeguy]

Do you understand just how much of a variance in clockrate, thermals, and overall costs are for something like that? Microsoft isn't stupid enough to hold back 50-100% extra spare performance because- "WE GOTTA FIGHT CONSOLE WARS!".

Shh just wait for e3 when dx12 unlocks the dgpu in the xbox power supply

 

[Slay]

But it did. And my apologies, it was 4.6gb of ram.

The piece was written on 15/05/2013 after a trip to their studio. The announcement that PS4 was using 8gb wasn't made until the conference and the devs claimed they knew nothing about it, so why was KZ running with 4.6 already.

If they were targeting 4gb then 4.6 for just the game would have been waaaaay out of bounds lol.

I don't know where you're geting with this.

Devkits always have more RAM from the retail units, so this is no suprise at all. And i imagine that GG being a Sony Studio, making a lauch game, they probably had some inside information about the RAM upgrade, before anyone else knew about it.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think that's their strategy - to have a high tier console and a low tier console - but MS could be facing the Goldilocks problem:

• Their low-tier console is underpowered in the minds of consumers, getting handily-beaten by PS4 now, and in a year will probably be in a less-desirable position vs a PS4. So not sure MS will want to keep supporting X1 much and in the past they've been quick to abandon their "old" consoles.
  
  
• A high tier Scorpio console that is similar to the rumored specs is going to be powerful, but that machine seems like it would be closer to $450-500 unless MS takes a decent loss. Additionally, many devs code to the lowest common denominator for multi-plat releases, which would likely be a slightly less powerful Neo. So you're not unlocking that extra power much initially and it could be a bad price point for mainstream adoption.

They want to make sure dat porridge isn't too hot or too cold.

Maybe they'll initially sell it at cost plus tax.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

All I know is its been reported many devs didn't know about the 8gb and we're targeting 4. If the announcement was made in February and the piece was written in may I wouldn't think 3 months is enough time to re write an entire engine that had been targeting 4gb or less to now allow for up to 8gb.

That all was probably true but could be explained quite simply that dev kits usually have twice the RAM as retail and Sony imposed a GB restriction in the dev docs until their RAM supplier could guarantee the higher density chips!

Devs didn't 'know' retail would get 8GB or that they could use more. Plus in the end it is only 5GB they can use, anyway. Devs were doing their bit for PR too!

 

[LostDonkey]

I don't know where you're geting with this.

Devkits always have more RAM from the retail units, so this is no suprise at all. And i imagine that GG being a Sony Studio, making a lauch game, they probably had some inside information about the RAM upgrade, before anyone else knew about it.

Where I'm getting this from?

Neogaf, along with other media outlets that reported devs knew nothing about the 8gb.

I guess my point is that devs knew full well about the 8gb and it was more marketing speil from Sony to gather more interest and momentum in their product and make it look like they were pulling out something of a surprise.

GG already using nearly 5gb of ram in a devkit that supposedly only had 4gb tells me that.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So now we're at the point where people are honestly believing it'll release this year, with 6TF+ of power under the hood and at a <400$ pricetag?

I mean yeah, in a perfect world this could happen. A man can dream. I would be in on day one if this perfect console manages to be real.

But I think we're going to have a lot of disgruntled people on this board once reality kicks in. There's no shame in being at least a bit conservative before doubling down on something that would have you laughed out of the room if you suggested it a few months ago. Microsoft has the potential to create something amazing here, but they can't do magic.

This thread has some eerie parallels with the Wii-U speculation thread, where people were dead-set on it being a modestly priced powerhouse that magically did everything right and would totally turn the tide. Exciting to see it all unfold over the next years.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So now we're at the point where people are honestly believing it'll release this year, with 6TF+ of power under the hood and at a <400$ pricetag?

I mean yeah, in a perfect world this could happen. A man can dream. I would be in on day one if this perfect console manages to be real.

But I think we're going to have a lot of disgruntled people on this board once reality kicks in. There's no shame in being at least a bit conservative before doubling down on something that would have you laughed out of the room if you suggested it a few months ago. Microsoft has the potential to create something amazing here, but they can't do magic.

This thread has some eerie parallels with the Wii-U speculation thread, where people were dead-set on it being a modestly priced powerhouse that magically did everything right and would totally turn the tide. Exciting to see it all unfold over the next years.

It's never hitting this year. My man has not heard a peep about it, but confirmed the Neo when I asked about it.

 

[Slay]

Where I'm getting this from?

Neogaf, along with other media outlets that reported devs knew nothing about the 8gb.

I guess my point is that devs knew full well about the 8gb and it was more marketing speil from Sony to gather more interest and momentum in their product and make it look like they were pulling out something of a surprise.

GG already using nearly 5gb of ram in a devkit that supposedly only had 4gb tells me that.

I still think that you're grasping at straws, and i still fail to see the point of all this.

A game using more than 4GB of ram , 3 months AFTER the upgrade announcement , is not strange at all. You know the hard thing is to lower your memory footprint, not to increase it.

And i (and some other people) allready told you that, devkits allways have more ram to begin with. And as for you little conspiracy theory (devs knew full well about the 8gb) , all i have to tell you is , that we learned the Orbis specs from devs sharing their SDK documentation with gaming sites. So you're telling us, that they all agreed to spill the beans on everything, except the amount of RAM? just for a publicity stand?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Where I'm getting this from?

Neogaf, along with other media outlets that reported devs knew nothing about the 8gb.

I guess my point is that devs knew full well about the 8gb and it was more marketing speil from Sony to gather more interest and momentum in their product and make it look like they were pulling out something of a surprise.

GG already using nearly 5gb of ram in a devkit that supposedly only had 4gb tells me that.

Sorry for bringing this conversation off track (I think it's pointless to discuss if the first PS4 devkits had 4, 8, or whatever amount of RAM), my point was (only) that the release of early dev kits doesn't imply that the final specs of the console are set in stone yet. Changes could be minor (clock, cooling, RAM, etc.), but if a company decides it's better to wait another year and a more extensive change will benefit their business model on the long run, they'll do it. If anything, XBOX One's turnaround showed us that console manufacturers have to be flexibel these days to be or become competitive.

 

[TBiddy]

I find it awesome that we have a 137 pages thread, discussing the power difference between two consoles, that haven't even been announced or publicly recognized yet.

 

[Mendax]

It's never hitting this year. My man has not heard a peep about it, but confirmed the Neo when I asked about it.

I'm still not convinced it even exists (or will exist)

I find it awesome that we have a 137 pages thread, discussing the power difference between two consoles, that haven't even been announced or publicly recognized yet.

I don't know whether awesome is the word, but yeah..

 

[c0de]

I find it awesome that we have a 137 pages thread, discussing the power difference between two consoles, that haven't even been announced or publicly recognized yet.

Well, some talk is really interesting but the other is just the usual “the company I give money to is way better than the company you give money to“.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'm still not convinced it even exists (or will exist)

Something is out there

Phil re-tweeted a link to a pod cast about Scorpio

and...

 

[c0de]

Where I'm getting this from?

Neogaf, along with other media outlets that reported devs knew nothing about the 8gb.

I guess my point is that devs knew full well about the 8gb and it was more marketing speil from Sony to gather more interest and momentum in their product and make it look like they were pulling out something of a surprise.

GG already using nearly 5gb of ram in a devkit that supposedly only had 4gb tells me that.

What is even more interesting is that Sony at one point was targeting 4gb. But that would never be usable by a game as there would still be some ram allocated to the os which is currently blocking 2.5 to 3gb of ram.
I wonder what the initial plans were but it would've really gimped the console in a serious way.

 

[gconsole]

Whats with the impression that Sony wont be able to bump up their spec after first devkit has been released? Like the game wont suddently run on a faster machine? Keep in mind that we are in iteration model. Things will run with old and new machine. So there is nothing to stop Sony from increasing the clock speed later, unless they already start pumping out the hardware.

 

[Mendax]

Something is out there

Phil re-tweeted a link to a pod cast about Scorpio

and...

perhaps he just finds it amusing, like "look at all the passion of our fans"