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[ElectricBlanketFire]

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/741979496799211520

Welp.

 

[Curufinwe]

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/741979496799211520

So domestic terrorism, like the Charleston massacre.

 

[SchrodingerC]

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/741979496799211520

Looks like domestic terrorism was the correct call.
But why drive from Port St. Lucie to Orlando?

 

[Oriel]

All those lone wolf/mental illness lot aren't gonna go 'ok these innocent people get a pass since I can't buy a gun'. No, he would in turn look for an alternative, most likely improvised, as history as shown people are more than capable of doing.

Good point. Anyone remember the UK Nail Bomber in 99 who targeted ethnic minorities and gay bars in London using improvised devices? Guns were, rightly, restricted in Britain in the wake of Dunblane but this self confessed neo-Nazi waged a war against perceived "enemies" his own way. The US still does need to clamp down on gun access but no one should be under any doubt you'd still have loonies out to commit carnage and mayhem.

 

[sflufan]

Looks like domestic terrorism was the correct call.
But why drive from Port St. Lucie to Orlando?

Was there ever any doubt that this would have been domestic terrorism, even if it appears to be Islamist-inspired?

 

[Mii]

Looks like domestic terrorism was the correct call.
But why drive from Port St. Lucie to Orlando?

So domestic terrorism, like the Charleston massacre.

Still very possible to be Islamist sympathizer. First name and last name are both Arab/Muslim.

 

[DrForester]

Good point. Anyone remember the UK Nail Bomber in 99 who targeted ethnic minorities and gay bars in London using improvised devices? Guns were, rightly, restricted in Britain in the wake of Dunblane but this self confessed neo-Nazi waged a war against perceived "enemies" his own way. The US still does need to clamp down on gun access but no one should be under any doubt you'd still have loonies out to commit carnage and mayhem.

"No law will stop 100% of incidents, means we shouldn't bother" is one of the more stupid arguments that the GOP and NRA uses. But it's a VERY common argument they like to use.

 

[SchrodingerC]

Was there ever any doubt that this would have been domestic terrorism, even if it appears to be Islamist-inspired?

No, but it should be also be classified as a hate crime as well.

 

[Abstrusity]

Looks like domestic terrorism was the correct call.
But why drive from Port St. Lucie to Orlando?

That's a pretty big jump. We're talking at least 120 miles, although I'm not sure where the nightclub is in particular. "Orlando" seems to be the 100 mile radius of "general vicinity of the airport" for everyone.

 

[Ratrat]

So this was of a homophobic nature? Absolutely sickening. I was really hoping it wasn't.

 

[Milly Osworth]

Still very possible to be Islamist sympathizer. First name and last name are both Arab/Muslim.

He is just putting his head in the sand.

Sadly any lunatic can say he does horrible things in the name of some bs brainwashing cult, but it wouldnt surprise me if its jihadism.

 

[hirokazu]

Do you consider it useful comparing a country of some 323 million people with individual European countries?

On a per capita basis, yes. How else do you compare stats across populations?

 

[xXCrazyCostaXX]

A friend of my girlfriend and I was there last night when it happened. Transgender vet who was stationed overseas and just moved home recently. We are hearing conflicting reports at to if he is at the hospital or the police station getting questioned about the events. first time I met him he hung out with me at a party and told me about his time in the service what it was like to be starting his transformation into a man while serving our country overseas. One of the most energetic and insightful people I have ever met. Stay safe gaf

 

[RPGCrazied]

And the news said it was a latin flavored night. So the suspect had to have known this also?

 

[mackattk]

Good point. Anyone remember the UK Nail Bomber in 99 who targeted ethnic minorities and gay bars in London using improvised devices? Guns were, rightly, restricted in Britain in the wake of Dunblane but this self confessed neo-Nazi waged a war against perceived "enemies" his own way. The US still does need to clamp down on gun access but no one should be under any doubt you'd still have loonies out to commit carnage and mayhem.

Yeah, those who are committed enough may be able to find a way; but some Joe off the street won't be able to buy a gun on a whim and get revenge on some people. Making improvised devices and weapons needs time, knowledge, and intelligence to pull off successfully. I agree that those who are dedicated enough can find a way, but in doing so it will wipe out a large portion of the
killings.

You cant just say "well people are going to find a way so why do anything?". I'm not pointing this specifically at you, but just the mentality that many gun supporters have.

 

[sflufan]

So this was of a homophobic nature? Absolutely sickening. I was really hoping it wasn't.

This appears to have been Islamist in nature, so make of that what you will.

 

[lenovox1]

No, but it should be also be classified as a hate crime as well.

The perpetrator is dead. There is no one to prosecute. The hate crime designation doesn't matter right now.

 

[Yagharek]

Asking for more gun control wont solve the issue.

This case was about a man with a mission: he wanted to kill people who did not conform to the tenets of his faith. Would you honestly think that him going to the store, trying to buy a gun and the clerck saying "no can do, sorry pal, gotta wait 4 weeks for the checkup" woulld have dissuaded him?

Do you really think that he would go "oh ok, sinners and sodomites get a free pass since I cant buy a gun". No, he would in turn look for an alternative, most likely improvised, as history as shown people are more than capable of doing.

So making this about guns is deflecting from the real issue which is the rising radicalization of islam and the incompatibility of such beliefs with western civilization.

OK, so the full on hardcore psychopathic mass killers will still try and find a way to murder. I think thats to be expected. But the majority of the other 10,000 gun deaths per year probably won't happen because they are either accidents, heat of the moment acts, or acts of murder committed by people who might not go and find another way because they either can't do it, change their mind, or get caught in the planning.

But no, by your logic keeping 10,000+ gun deaths per year is an acceptable price to pay, and instead the focus should be on radical Islam?

Wow.

How many gun deaths in the USA per year are caused by religious extremists? How many are accidental discharges by children killing their parent or sibling when they find an unsecured weapon, by comparison?

 

[James93]

Very sad news as always with death. We need to look at why this is happening. Why all these psychopaths are shooting people. Gun control may help some, but it still doesn't stop all this psychopaths from finding other means.

 

[Mii]

This appears to have been Islamist in nature, so make of that what you will.

Both homophobic and Islamist at the same time is entirely possible.

Also an act of terror can be a hate crime. Some would also say all hate crimes are terrorism.

 

[Oriel]

"No law will stop 100% of incidents, means we shouldn't bother" is one of the more stupid arguments that the GOP and NRA uses. But it's a VERY common argument they like to use.

I absolutely DO believe every effort should be made to tighten gun laws. But you'll always have nutters doing the things they do on occasion. It has to be more than merely tightening gun laws. It's a good place to start but other avenues must be explored such as shutting down websites that promote and spread hate speech which feed these wacko's delusions.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Good point. Anyone remember the UK Nail Bomber in 99 who targeted ethnic minorities and gay bars in London using improvised devices? Guns were, rightly, restricted in Britain in the wake of Dunblane but this self confessed neo-Nazi waged a war against perceived "enemies" his own way. The US still does need to clamp down on gun access but no one should be under any doubt you'd still have loonies out to commit carnage and mayhem.

Ease of access makes a difference. You'd still have the crazies, but fewer incidents is certainly preferable to what we have now.

This isn't rocket science.

I'd say a flat out ban is in order. You have 6 months to turn in your weapon and get a break in taxes or some shit.

1st offense after: 1 year minimum.
2nd offense: life.

I'm sure we can let the people in prison for minor drug offenses like pot out just fine to make room.

It wouldn't be pretty in the interim but the ends would justify the means. People would get over it.

I would hope that would also lead to fewer fatal police shootings over time.

If other countries can do it, so can we. This climate of gun violence is bullshit.

 

[Yagharek]

Very sad news as always with death. We need to look at why this is happening. Why all these psychopaths are shooting people. Gun control may help some, but it still doesn't stop all this psychopaths from finding other means.

It's not about stopping all of the crimes as that is impossible.

It's about trying to stop as many as you can, instead of doing nothing after rationalising it as a futile exercise the same way others in this thread have done.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

OK, so youre full on hardcore psychopathic mass killers still try and find a way to murder. But the majority of the other 10,000 gun deaths per year probably won't happen because they are either accidents, heat of the moment acts, or acts of murder committed by people who might not go and find another way because they either can't, or get caught in the planning.

But no, by your logic keeping 10,000+ gun deaths per year is an acceptable price to pay, and instead the focus should be on radical Islam?

Wow.

How many gun deaths in the USA per year are caused by religious extremists?

Well radical Islam or radical anything needs to be looked at yes. As clearly it isn't compatible with western society. But of course gun reforms must be looked at too.

I will never support a ban. But I will support reforms. Just like most Americans do.

As for this attack, I call Orlando my home. I was saddened to hear about it this morning. At the very least I know of none of my friends who were directly affected.

 

[Lead]

On a per capita basis, yes. How else do you compare stats across populations?

That's not what was being said. He said that it was rare for it to happen, but I'm fairly confident there's several shootings everyday in Europe. And it's fairly obvious that more firearms means more firearms related crime. Contrary to popular belief, more firearms doesn't mean more crime in general, at least in Europe.

There's no direct corelation between the amount of firearms and the amount of homicides in Europe.

 

[AlphaSnake]

This happened literally one block away from my friend's apartment. Fucking insane.

Orlando Police have called it "domestic terrorism", so far. FBI will be looking for links to Islamist extremism, as well.

 

[Blueliner]

Press conference will be here soon.

http://www.fox35orlando.com/live

 

[holygeesus]

All it took is one school shooting in the UK to sort the problem out. Privately owned firearms were banned unless you had a valid reason, personal and home defence isn't a valid reason.

There is slightly more to it than that. The crucial difference is the local police authority thoroughly vet everyone applying for a license, including contacting personal doctors etc before issuing one. Legitimate reasons include, sport, leisure and even collection.

I live in a rural part of the UK and work in the community, and shotguns are a common sight, so they are very much part of our culture. The difference is the ease in which they are to obtain over here, and also the relatively scarce black-market. You can also still get a licence for a long-bore pistol over here (I think they are mainly used for sport shooting?)

Personal and home defence is not a valid reason though for sure. However if you use a legally owned shotgun to defend yourself, it is seen as a valid defence.

The key difference is it's not as easy to obtain them, the involvement in police at all stages of issuing one, and you need land to shoot on, or the permission of someone to shoot there i.e. sport shooting etc. There are still plenty of guns in this country though - 2 million licenses were issued in 2015 alone.

 

[Red Liquorice]

So this was of a homophobic nature? Absolutely sickening. I was really hoping it wasn't.

There's no way they just walked into a random club and it happened to be a gay club - it was a targeted attack, you better believe it was homophobic.

 

[hirokazu]

I will never support a ban. But I will support reforms. Just like most Americans do.

Then most Americans need to make sure reforms happen instead of letting the NRA dictate gun policy.

 

[Abstrusity]

Ease of access makes a difference. You'd still have the crazies, but fewer incidents is certainly preferable to what we have now.

This isn't rocket science.

I'd say a flat out ban is in order. You have 6 months to turn in your weapon and get a break in taxes or some shit.

1st offense after: 1 year minimum.
2nd offense: life.

I'm sure we can let the people in prison for minor drug offenses like pot out just fine to make room.

It wouldn't be pretty in the interim but the ends would justify the means. People would get over it.

I would hope that would also lead to fewer fatal police shootings over time.

If other countries can do it, so can we. This climate of gun violence is bullshit.

So, you want to ban guns. That means you need most of Congress to pass an amendment, a president who would sign it, a majority of states to ratify it. We don't have that. Nothing NEAR that, in fact.

Australia doesn't have the same system -- it was easier for them t o do so. Our system was built with distrust for each other and themselves, so they limited the powers of each of the three branches.

 

[lenovox1]

Very sad news as always with death. We need to look at why this is happening. Why all these psychopaths are shooting people. Gun control may help some, but it still doesn't stop all this psychopaths from finding other means.

Most mass shooters don't have a diagnosed mentally illness. That's the first misconception that must be stamped out.

 

[cj_iwakura]

A friend of my girlfriend and I was there last night when it happened. Transgender vet who was stationed overseas and just moved home recently. We are hearing conflicting reports at to if he is at the hospital or the police station getting questioned about the events. first time I met him he hung out with me at a party and told me about his time in the service what it was like to be starting his transformation into a man while serving our country overseas. One of the most energetic and insightful people I have ever met. Stay safe gaf

You're all okay, I hope.

 

[AlphaSnake]

There's no way they just walked into a random club and it happened to be a gay club - it was a targeted attack, you better believe it was homophobic.

It's definitely targeted and anti-gay. If he wanted to kill random people, he could've gone to downtown Orlando where there's tons of clubs in a 4 block radius. But he went to a part of Orlando where that is virtually the only nightclub around and it happened to be a gay club.

No question this was a targeted attack, indeed.

 

[Sax1031]

So, you want to ban guns. That means you need most of Congress to pass a bill, a president who would sign it, a majority of states to ratify it. We don't have that. Nothing NEAR that, in fact.

you would have to go through the amendment process.

 

[Dead Man]

A friend of my girlfriend and I was there last night when it happened. Transgender vet who was stationed overseas and just moved home recently. We are hearing conflicting reports at to if he is at the hospital or the police station getting questioned about the events. first time I met him he hung out with me at a party and told me about his time in the service what it was like to be starting his transformation into a man while serving our country overseas. One of the most energetic and insightful people I have ever met. Stay safe gaf

Damn, hope he's safe.

 

[lenovox1]

So, you want to ban guns. That means you need most of Congress to pass a bill, a president who would sign it, a majority of states to ratify it. We don't have that. Nothing NEAR that, in fact.

He would need Congress or the States to add an amendment to the constitution. Absolute fantasy with regards to this matter.

 

[hirokazu]

That's not what was being said. He said that it was rare for it to happen, but I'm fairly confident there's several shootings everyday in Europe. And it's fairly obvious that more firearms means more firearms related crime. Contrary to popular belief, more firearms doesn't mean more crime in general, at least in Europe.

There's no direct corelation between the amount of firearms and the amount of homicides in Europe.

Do you have stats to back that up?

 

[Setsu00]

That's not what was being said. He said that it was rare for it to happen, but I'm fairly confident there's several shootings everyday in Europe. And it's fairly obvious that more firearms means more firearms related crime. Contrary to popular belief, more firearms doesn't mean more crime in general, at least in Europe.

There's no direct corelation between the amount of firearms and the amount of homicides in Europe.

I usually don't meddle with this stuff, but consider the following: Japan (127 million people) has outlawed most forms of private gun ownership and has an average of 2 gun related homicides a year.

 

[Yagharek]

Most mass shooters don't have a diagnosed mentally illness. That's the first misconception that must be stamped out.

And to add to that, most people with mental illness don't commit violent crimes.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Then most Americans need to make sure reforms happen instead of letting the NRA dictate gun policy.

I completely agree. NRA is trash and doesn't even represent it's own membership let alone the rest of the US.

Voting out this shit GOP would be a great start.

 

[Huff]

Talk of gun reform is nice, but unlikely to have made a difference in someone possibly linked to Islamic terror groups

 

[SchrodingerC]

That's a pretty big jump. We're talking at least 120 miles, although I'm not sure where the nightclub is in particular. "Orlando" seems to be the 100 mile radius of "general vicinity of the airport" for everyone.

The nightclub is basically in the downtown Orlando area, so it's quite a drive.

The perpetrator is dead. There is no one to prosecute. The hate crime designation doesn't matter right now.

It can be still be a hate crime and terrorism, especially since the shooter specifically chose a gay club to commit the murders.

 

[xXCrazyCostaXX]

You're all okay, I hope.

We weren't there he was. Still waiting to here from him or his brother to know if he is okay.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Talk of gun reform is nice, but unlikely to have made a difference in someone possibly linked to Islamic terror groups

So what. Do it anyway. At the very least for all of the other situations that happen every day.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Talk of gun reform is nice, but unlikely to have made a difference in someone possibly linked to Islamic terror groups

Makes people feel better I guess.

 

[Oriel]

Yeah, those who are committed enough may be able to find a way; but some Joe off the street won't be able to buy a gun on a whim and get revenge on some people. Making improvised devices and weapons needs time, knowledge, and intelligence to pull off successfully. I agree that those who are dedicated enough can find a way, but in doing so it will wipe out a large portion of the
killings.

You cant just say "well people are going to find a way so why do anything?". I'm not pointing this specifically at you, but just the mentality that many gun supporters have.

Yeah, I was just going to point out I'm in no way making that argument. Essentially stricter gun laws WILL help reduce the incidence of gun violence but it won't eliminate them entirely. The Lee Rigby murder, Charlie Hebdo massacre and recent attacks in Belgium are proof of this.

Stricter gun laws, greater intelligence sharing and increased surveillance of suspect Islamist extremists. There's no single solution here I'm afraid.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Makes people feel better I guess.

And you're ignoring all of the other crimes and situations and accidents as it relates to guns in the US. Get the fuck out of here with your feel better shit.

 

[Blueliner]

Talk of gun reform is nice, but unlikely to have made a difference in someone possibly linked to Islamic terror groups

It's amazing how easily people get distracted in situations like this.

 

[Lead]

Do you have stats to back that up?

I should make a spreadsheet I can take out everytime this thing is asked, because it's a lot of work. I'll spend the time later and post it here.

I usually don't meddle with this stuff, but consider the following: Japan (127 million people) has outlawed most forms of private gun ownership and has an average of 2 gun related homicides a year.

Sure, more homicides will be committed with guns, but not overall homicides.

In other words, people just stab, beat or do other things to kill each other instead of using firearms.