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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

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It's plain obvious again the problem with Islamic scripture.

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful."
Quran 4:16


"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township: for truly they are (addicted to) crime."
Qur'an 29:28"

Hadith

"Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447"


To be clear , as I have said before the discussion isn't one broad stroke of all Muslim . This is about scripture and the difference in how now Christians see the Old Testament and how in Islam vast majority believe as Quran exact word of God and exactly how to govern society and live, while Hadith are perfect example of life of prophet.

If you can understand that difference you will understand the mentality of these attackers

Here is a great video to understand my point

https://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk

While there is something of a separation of tradition between Judaism and Christianity, the old testament is still very much a part of the Christian doctrine. Growing up in a Christian family, and being the son of a pastor, I didn't fully understand the differences between the old and new testaments for much of my childhood, I just knew them both as the bible.

Now in regards to Islam, my understanding is Hadiths are not held to the same authority as the Quran, as they come from sources related to the prophet but not the prophet himself, and that different sects of Islam follow different hadiths. Am I wrong?

I still do not see a verse in the Quran that directly says to kill homosexuals, however the old testament does say "If a man also lie with another man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."- Leviticus 20:13

Again, I do not believe the Islamic scriptures are any more harsh than the biblical scriptures. I do not believe the issue has to do with difference in scripture, I believe it has to do with politics. I believe that the Islamic countries have a more authoritarian approach to what is deemed sinful behavior due to the lack of separation of church and state. I also believe that political unrest plays a role in extremism

Heck, back in the 1990s terrorist attacks were more common in Britain than in countries like Syria, Libya and Yemen. What changed? it wasn't the religious scriptures, it was the political circumstances
 
I'm going to take this post as an example of the huge issue that's constantly being missed. Of course, please don't take this as a direct attack. Definitely not my intention.

Today I saw a parade of religious leaders on TV condemn the attacks. Those same religious leaders will go back to their places of worship, and continue denouncing lgbt as abomination, and spread the very same literature that is the foundation of the religion which contains inflammatory rhetoric towards LGBT.

Communities are led by these religious leaders. They grow thinking of LGBT as less than human, and why not; after all they are abominations that go against their God. These same religions fund and support activities to treat LGBT less than equal, depriving them of equal rights in the eyes of the law.

LGBT is simply dehumanized by these religious leaders. Why do you think there are so many suicides amongst LGBT youth?

To finish my rant, I think the big issue at hand is that as long as religions continue treating LGBT as abomination, continue keeping the inflammatory rhetoric in their religious texts, the divide between LGBT and the religious non-LGBT will continue.

I completely understand your point of view. In fact I myself have turned away from these leaders, especially evangelicals, for many years now. They seem fake and unauthentic at best and hateful people preying on the weak minded at worst. Not all churches or pastors/bishops/priests are like this, but we sure don't see a positive representation on television or in the media.
 
It's plain obvious again the problem with Islamic scripture.

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful."
Quran 4:16


"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township: for truly they are (addicted to) crime."
Qur'an 29:28"

Hadith

"Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447"


To be clear , as I have said before the discussion isn't one broad stroke of all Muslim . This is about scripture and the difference in how now Christians see the Old Testament and how in Islam vast majority believe as Quran exact word of God and exactly how to govern society and live, while Hadith are perfect example of life of prophet.

If you can understand that difference you will understand the mentality of these attackers

Here is a great video to understand my point

https://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk

Thanks for posting this video. Very informative.

Courageous woman in that video.
 
I don't know that citing African countries es examples really works to your advantage. Further, a lot of your countries mentioned have serious issues with poverty. Did you ever wonder why Muslims in the US are more supportive of same-sex marriage than white Evangelical Christians?

It should also be mentioned that you probably didn't phrase your post correctly, because it appears to claim that the only constant for these Muslims is that they follow a militant religion, which either sounds like you're claiming that all of these Muslims are extremists or that all Muslims are Muslims

Because you're comparing percentages of a group of everyone from fundamentalists to liberals compared to a group composed of just fundamentalists?

That comparison makes no sense.
 
I agree that any ideology that believes gay people are inhuman or deserving of death is wrong. And I think most of us know those people exist, and who they are, generally speaking. That's why I don't find it necessary to highlight one particular dumbass regurgitating arguments he got from Westboro Baptist and others. I'm not interested in raising the profile of another church the way Westboro was able to raise theirs. And it's not needed, because the problem isn't that we don't know people think terrible, horrible things and often act on those thoughts, the problem is there is very little we can do about it.

What do you do about someone who believes that gay people should be put to death? How do you change their mind? The very act of arguing against them convinces them that you have been corrupted, because what they're following isn't a reasonable argument that can be repudiated with logic, it's an unfalsifiable statement of faith.

Beyond that, these philosophies of hatred, whether they're parts of Isam, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, or whatever aren't the only factor involved. We like to believe that things happen for a reason, but it's rare that things happen for a single reason. Things happen because a confluence of reasons and timing occur. Mentally ill people rarely engage in violence. Religious people rarely engage in violence, Violent people, worldwide, rarely have access to guns. Here, we create the conditions for perfect storms all the time, because we mix mental health issues, easy availability of guns, and pathological philosophies. Getting rid of one of the problems isn't going to solve the issue. Elliot Rodgers didn't need religion to go on a murder spree. Nor does one have to be crazy. Any two of the three are generally enough.

We need to address all of them, and quit pretending there are easy answers, like getting rid of a religion or all religions. Not only is that a fantasy reaction, a thing you couldn't do with all the firepower in the world, but it's collective punishment of those who have lived their lives according to the law. It's allowing bad actors to taint life for everyone.

And I'm fine with tackling violent philosophies embedded in religion, and I think that's possible without attempting to jettison the entire religion, a thing which causes reflexive horror and panic from the religion's adherents. But when we get people saying "get rid of religion" or "don't let Muslims in the country" these are people who aren't interested in serious answers. They're people who are angry, but too dumb to actually come up with anything resembling an idea to make things better, so they grasp for a simple answer and shout it twice as loud.

And it's the same thing causing terrorism, this need for easy answers. If your country has been a war zone for twenty years, the easy answer is to hate and to make bombs. It's the first thing we think of doing, because we're angry, violent animals, and it's in our nature to return violence with violence. Blaming a caricature of your enemy is always easier than trying to understand what's really happening. But taking the easy way is killing us. All of us.

I would agree on not easy answers or simply put single cause. That is why the discussion of both religion influence and guns can be had toghether .

But , I for sure disagree in your assessment in how to handle it. Hiding it isn't gonna solve it. Perfect example would be how slavery was eradicated in Muslim world ( Arab slave trade was bigger than trans Atlantic ) and in west. Both case you can make a very strong argument of religious scripture support. But, discussion was bough up front and reforms were made. Them political pressure help change reform outside . Saudi just recently 1962 abolish slavery due to the political pressure . Even though Quran / Hadith have allowed slavery, Mohammad owned slaves , he bought them , sell them and some cases free them.

My personal life is an example. I was born Muslim lived my life in Muslim country . It's when I came to USA and all these issues came up that I never knew existed in my religion that forced me to rationalize . Bringing it out to discuss is the way I saw my self change over time.

Bad ideas need to be discussed or they become the hidden cancer
 
Touching upon the banning of homosexuality in some countries, we can also observe that countries like Ethiopia (which has a majority Christian population) have very severe bans on same-sex relations; LGBT people are second-class citizens in Ethiopia.
 
While there is something of a separation of tradition between Judaism and Christianity, the old testament is still very much a part of the Christian doctrine. Growing up in a Christian family, and being the son of a pastor, I didn't fully understand the differences between the old and new testaments for much of my childhood, I just knew them both as the bible.

Now in regards to Islam, my understanding is Hadiths are not held to the same authority as the Quran, as they come from sources related to the prophet but not the prophet himself, and that different sects of Islam follow different hadiths. Am I wrong?

I still do not see a verse in the Quran that directly says to kill homosexuals, however the old testament does say "If a man also lie with another man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."- Leviticus 20:13

Again, I do not believe the Islamic scriptures are any more harsh than the biblical scriptures. I do not believe the issue has to do with difference in scripture, I believe it has to do with politics. I believe that the Islamic countries have a more authoritarian approach to what is deemed sinful behavior due to the lack of separation of church and state. I also believe that political unrest plays a role in extremism

Heck, back in the 1990s terrorist attacks were more common in Britain than in countries like Syria, Libya and Yemen. What changed? it wasn't the religious scriptures, it was the political circumstances


I got to go to sleep, working tomorrow . Will for sure give you my response 😊
 
I am still in shock. I used to go to Pulse when I lived in Orlando. I know people who work there still. Miraculously they are ok, but so many died. I can't believe anyone would do this. Fuck.
 
Because you're comparing percentages of a group of everyone from fundamentalists to liberals compared to a group composed of just fundamentalists?

That comparison makes no sense.

religious-groups-on-marriage-equality-v3.png


If I had to guess, the comparison exists because people who do these things as a matter of their job deemed it the appropriate comparison.

It also makes sense in context because we are talking about Muslims in the US vs. Muslims in the Middle East, and to emphasize that Muslims in the US are significantly less fundamentalist than the ones in the Middle East (and as such, you cannot discount the geographical location as being a major part of why homosexuality is illegal in the Middle East).
 
I don't know that citing African countries es examples really works to your advantage. Further, a lot of your countries mentioned have serious issues with poverty. Did you ever wonder why Muslims in the US are more supportive of same-sex marriage than white Evangelical Christians?

It should also be mentioned that you probably didn't phrase your post correctly, because it appears to claim that the only constant for these Muslims is that they follow a militant religion, which either sounds like you're claiming that all of these Muslims are extremists or that all Muslims are Muslims

I just looked up the Pew Research Religous Landscape Study.

Evangelicals make up around 35% of all Christians in the US. I don't necessarily think it's fair to paint all US Christians as the same as evangelicals, because that simply isn't true. Unfortunately evangelicals have a lot of political power due to the social conservative movements and the religious leaders involved are mostly evangelicals, therefore people just assume all Christians are the same.
 
Again, the Boston Marathon massacre was not perpetrated with guns but with pressure-cooker bombs. Tsarnaev was an Islamic nut too though.
I agree that some weapons may very well be too easy to obtain, but discussion of the ideologies that motivate these crimes and how to combat them should not be taboo.
You're right, crazy people will find a way to kill people, however, right now in the USA, it's easier for a crazy person to get a weapon that will kill many people alot quicker. I'd rather be in a knife massacre than a gun massacre. One has a much higher probability of living through it.
 
I just looked up the Pew Research Religous Landscape Study.

Evangelicals make up around 35% of all Christians in the US. I don't necessarily think it's fair to paint all US Christians as the same as evangelicals, because that simply isn't true. Unfortunately evangelicals have a lot of political power due to the social conservative movements and the religious leaders involved are mostly evangelicals, therefore people just assume all Christians are the same.

I did not do such a thing. My point was that Muslims are further left than people think they are; while they are the second worst in the poll, they IIRC had the biggest jump of late.
 
I did not do such a thing. My point was that Muslims are further left than people think they are; while they are the second worst in the poll, they IIRC had the biggest jump of late.

You also have to think that Muslims are the most diverse community being represented. Both economically, culturally, racially, and even in terms of immigrant generations.
 
Been any updates on all the injured? Glad to see the death count has not gone up, and hope that's a good sign for all the injured.
 
religious-groups-on-marriage-equality-v3.png


If I had to guess, the comparison exists because people who do these things as a matter of their job deemed it the appropriate comparison.

It also makes sense in context because we are talking about Muslims in the US vs. Muslims in the Middle East, and to emphasize that Muslims in the US are significantly less fundamentalist than the ones in the Middle East (and as such, you cannot discount the geographical location as being a major part of why homosexuality is illegal in the Middle East).

In addition according to the Pew study I referenced above, Catholics and Mainlins Protestents make up the majority of Christians in the US (around 55% combined). The majority of these two groups support same sex marriage. Therefore people need to stop paining all Christians as evangelicals or in agreeance with whatever nonsense evangelical leaders spew.
 
In addition according to the Pew study I referenced above, Catholics and Mainlins Protestents make up the majority of Christians in the US (around 55% combined). The majority of these two groups support same sex marriage. Therefore people need to stop paining all Christians as evangelicals or in agreeance with whatever nonsense evangelical leaders spew.

That isn't a thing I'm saying. Sorry that my post was worded in such a way that caused you to take this away from it, but it's not what I'm arguing. If I was trying to be a weasel, I wouldn't have specified white Evangelical Christians.
 
It was quite the shock to my system today. I've been in a haze of anxiety the entire day over the shooting, because it snapped me into this immediate fear that I might never truly any sort of comfortable level of equality in this country. It affected me that much more because I've been pushed away from my local LGBT community and banned from my city's own pride event because I stood up when the leader of the committee was making oddly prejudiced remarks. It's upsetting. It's terrifying.
 
I did not do such a thing. My point was that Muslims are further left than people think they are; while they are the second worst in the poll, they IIRC had the biggest jump of late.

I apologize if I made that assumption. I've seen tons of junk posted here today that makes that assumption so I should have not extended that to you.

Thanks for the clarification. I do stand by my statement though because many people on here making blanket statements about Christianity or public Christian leaders do seem to make that assumption.
 
It was quite the shock to my system today. I've been in a haze of anxiety the entire day over the shooting, because it snapped me into this immediate fear that I might never truly any sort of comfortable level of equality in this country. It affected me that much more because I've been pushed away from my local LGBT community and banned from my city's own pride event because I stood up when the leader of the committee was making oddly prejudiced remarks. It's upsetting. It's terrifying.

Why were you pushed away?
 
I apologize if I made that assumption. I've seen tons of junk posted here today that makes that assumption so I should have not extended that to you.

Thanks for the clarification. I do stand by my statement though because many people on here making blanket statements about Christianity or public Christian leaders do seem to make that assumption.

No harm done; you appeared to be arguing in good faith, so I can't fault you for being impolite.
 
religious-groups-on-marriage-equality-v3.png


If I had to guess, the comparison exists because people who do these things as a matter of their job deemed it the appropriate comparison.

It also makes sense in context because we are talking about Muslims in the US vs. Muslims in the Middle East, and to emphasize that Muslims in the US are significantly less fundamentalist than the ones in the Middle East (and as such, you cannot discount the geographical location as being a major part of why homosexuality is illegal in the Middle East).

That still seems like some really bad numbers, being second worst when the worst group is just fundamentalists is not great.

I mean yeah the U.S Muslims are less fundamentalist then most places in the world for various reasons, the problem still stands that Islam is the reason for the death penalty for homosexuality in many countries, its the reason millions of people around the world are okay with killing apostates or stoning adulters etc.
 
My patience for guns is wearing thin. I use to just want tighter regulations but it just keeps getting more ridiculous and more people keep dying.
 
That still seems like some really bad numbers, being second worst when the worst group is just fundamentalists is not great.

I mean yeah the U.S Muslims are less fundamentalist then most places in the world for various reasons, the problem still stands that Islam is the reason for the death penalty for homosexuality in many countries, its the reason millions of people around the world are okay with killing apostates or stoning adulters etc.

Do you then argue that the Middle East, if Christian, would not execute homosexuals?
 
That still seems like some really bad numbers, being second worst when the worst group is just fundamentalists is not great.

I mean yeah the U.S Muslims are less fundamentalist then most places in the world for various reasons, the problem still stands that Islam is the reason for the death penalty for homosexuality in many countries, its the reason millions of people around the world are okay with killing apostates or stoning adulters etc.

Go back a few hundred years and you'll find many of those muslim regions to be more tolerant of non-muslims and more progressive than most of europe on social matters.


It's not religion - it's geopolitics and culture. of whih religion is a component, yes.
 
Do you then argue that the Middle East, if Christian, would not execute homosexuals?

I'd say some probably wouldn't, but you can see what they do. Everyone who isn't us is out to get us, to destroy our life. We, the good people, are constantly being persecuted by those others, so we have to get rid of those others before they get rid of us. It's a means of control, and while religion is a large part of it, I wouldn't doubt it happening in an uneducated secular country.

It's happening to an extent with Trump in the US, so it shouldn't be hard to see in countries with even lower employment, education, and charismatic leaders.
 
Wow just found out a friend from high school was bartending at Pulse that night. Thankfully she wasn't shot and escaped uninjured.
 
Do you then argue that the Middle East, if Christian, would not execute homosexuals?

If it was made up of a bunch of fundamentalist Christians they probably would (See africa with all of the countries with horrible LGBT rights that are Christian) too or at least criminalize it. Luckily for all of us most Christians have mellowed out a lot and aren't fundamentalists, Islam still hasn't in many places.

There certainly could be an argument made that the Quaran and Hadith provide more support for restricting LGBT rights then the Bible but they are all pretty terrible in that regard.
 
Reading BBC news report, I am awestruck by this:

Worst US mass shootings in last 25 years
At least 50 dead, 2016 - Omar Mateen opens fire on revellers at gay club in Orlando, Florida
32 dead, 2007 - Student Seung-Hui Cho massacres students at Virginia Tech university before killing himself
27 dead, 2012 - Adam Lanza kills 20 six- and seven-year-old children and six adults before killing himself at Sandy Hook, Connecticut
23 dead, 1991 - George Hennard drives through the wall of a cafe in Killeen, Texas, before opening fire and committing suicide
14 dead, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik open fire at a staff gathering in San Bernardino
13 dead, 2009 - Maj Nidal Malik Hasan opens fire at army base in Fort Hood, Texas
13 dead, 2009 - Jiverly Wong shoots people at New York immigrant centre before killing himself
13 dead, 1999 - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill fellow students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado

I'm not sure what you can do about extremists and bigotry, but there are some things that can be done to ensure mass shootouts are lessened. US policymakers really need to steer towards stricter gun laws. Hopefully, anti-gun activists, really step up efforts now.
 
I hate the focus of the debate on Islam. They debate the entirety of Islam and all muslims. Both sides do this. It's a complete sideshow that doesn't improve the situation for either side. A certain sect of extremist muslims from Saudi Arabia spread terrorist violence and hate throughout the world and people constantly argue only about Islam. Do people follow world news at all? You don't even have to go far looking for this information on the internet. A lot of it gets posted on gaf. There was a Frontline documentary posted here recently I wonder if any of you that are arguing bothered to watch it.
 
I'd say some probably wouldn't, but you can see what they do. Everyone who isn't us is out to get us, to destroy our life. We, the good people, are constantly being persecuted by those others, so we have to get rid of those others before they get rid of us. It's a means of control, and while religion is a large part of it, I wouldn't doubt it happening in an uneducated secular country.

It's happening to an extent with Trump in the US, so it shouldn't be hard to see in countries with even lower employment, education, and charismatic leaders.

I have to think education plays a major role. Just on the Trump aspect, it seems like the less education a person has, the more likely they are to buy into his garbage. That isn't always the case as I know some very well educated and intelligent Trump supporters, but generally education seems to always play a role in these things.
 
Go back a few hundred years and you'll find many of those muslim regions to be more tolerant of non-muslims and more progressive than most of europe on social matters.


It's not religion - it's geopolitics and culture. of whih religion is a component, yes.

I'd argue that religion is a pretty significant if not the most important component in that...
 
If it was made up of a bunch of fundamentalist Christians they probably would (See africa with all of the countries with horrible LGBT rights that are Christian) too or at least criminalize it. Luckily for all of us most Christians have mellowed out a lot and aren't fundamentalists, Islam still hasn't in many places.

There certainly could be an argument made that the Quaran and Hadith provide more support for restricting LGBT rights then the Bible but they are all pretty terrible in that regard.

And that is my point - we need to have a measured look at how much of the problem in the Middle East is due to Islamic extremism, general religious extremism, and/or general corruption. While in the US we don't have the extremity of reaction to hate, in recent history we have had laws pushed for the sake of limiting freedoms using the Bible, and I think a lot of why the laws were pushed was because it gave an easy target for the extremist right and took focus away from other things.
 
Why were you pushed away?

Because I disagreed with someone's use of racially charged language in our pride event's planning meetings. Someone at last year's event suggested we have more diverse entertainment (it's very urban themed), instead of taking that into consideration she starts mocking the guy at meetings and we get told "I'm not whitening up pride for anyone, pride can get too white". I thought that was an odd thing to say. Apparently i'm the only one who thinks that was an odd statement, even though it's not about any specific race. So i got branded a racist prick and a lot of people took her side.
 
Reading BBC news report, I am awestruck by this:

I'm not sure what you can do about extremists and bigotry, but there are some things that can be done to ensure mass shootouts are lessened. US policymakers really need to steer towards stricter gun laws. Hopefully, anti-gun activists, really step up efforts now.

What strikes me from this list is, six of those top eight are since 2007. We have mass shootings daily, but even unusually large shootings are getting more common.
 
I'd argue that religion is a pretty significant if not the most important component in that...

Are you sure? Last time I looked at homosexuality laws in Islamic majority countries, I noticed a trend that suggested so called islamic countries had laws from the time of the British empire. Which explains why Turkey from its inception never had homosexuality as a crime on its books.

edit: And from memory, jordan and mali, like Turkey, are similarly independent of British law. But hopefully someone can correct me on this.
 
What strikes me from this list is, six of those top eight are since 2007. We have mass shootings daily, but even unusually large shootings are getting more common.

Woh. I can't disagree.
I'll try and find a wider list to see if this pattern continues or is actually just down due to a limited sample.
 
Only the Jewish orthodox believe Torah is word to word of God . Which is about 10%.

Compare to vast majority of Muslim believe that Quran is direct word of God .

The way both look at the scripture is very different

Jewish Orthodox are more than 10% if I recall.
 
Are you sure? Last time I looked homosexuality laws, I noticed a trend that suggested so called islamic countries had laws from the time of the British empire. Which explains why Turkey from its inception never had homosexuality as a crime on its books.

Well I mean the British Empire passed those laws in major part because of religion(Christianity) and now they are continued due to fundamentalist Islam.

You can't just pick Turkey as example and say look totally nothing to do with religion. Turkey has always been known for being relatively secular compared to many other countries. (and thats slipping away because of Erdoğan).

If you look at other countries in the area like Iran and Saudi Arabia they both specifically use Islam as the reason for executing gay people.
 
Man I can't even get on Facebook without getting pissed at people's stupid comments about this.

Tell me about it. I already lost respect for my cousin in law after he sympathized with Trump and defended him along with his supporters. And he's a gun nut. But today he thought today's tragedy was our Paris and posted this along with the Paris comment. "We need to stop getting distracted by impractical solutions and fight back to put a REAL end to their agenda."
 
Well I mean the British Empire passed those laws in major part because of religion(Christianity) and now they are continued due to fundamentalist Islam.

You can't just pick Turkey as example and say look totally nothing to do with religion. Turkey has always been known for being relatively secular compared to many other countries. (and thats slipping away because of Erdoğan).

If you look at other countries in the area like Iran and Saudi Arabia they both specifically use Islam as the reason for executing gay people.
Turkey was the seat of Ottoman Caliphate, which was a legitimate one, before Ataturk. Ottomans decriminalized homosexuality long before modern secular Turkey was created.
 
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