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[gatti-man]

MS will have to walk the line between 'strong encouraging' studios to optimize for the scorpio and not alienating potential partners.

It may end up a mess both ways (Sony takes the same risk). Games that run like shit on the lower end machine and aren't good enough to justify the higher end.

Any game can run on old hardware it just needs lower poly models and cutting effects. Just like a low end PC would. This is good for MS as the newest halo looking like poop on old consoles will arm twist people into upgrading while still maintaining a large user base.

lol c'mon it is the same hardware in PC and consoles... same AMD FLOPs... there is no way to be different.

What you are talking is optimization and not FLOPs.

The reason comparing TF is meaningless is directly because of optimization and the lack of hardware variety in the console space allowing better performance per flop. PC hardware can flop like crazy and still stutter on shitty console ports which happen all the time. A console will always go further on less power or TF.

 

[Proelite]

Ha ok. You're wrong and I'll leave it at that. There is a huge difference between TF performance on consoles vs PCs. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. It's more around 10-25% depending on the software and how much time is spent in dedicating it to the hardware.

Before the iterative console, this was probably the case.

Now that devs won't be allowed to code to the metal anymore because of future compatibility, you won't get that level of optimization ever again on Microsoft consoles.

 

[Long Division]

Free games?

You are paying for those games.

 

[small44]

I think this and neo will fail it come against consoles philosophy.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Price?

Why would anyone buy a Slim if this is right around the corner?

To play games I guess, I doubt they will keep the old model around for long.
Not sure it should have been announced this year though, guess we'll see.

 

[Rizific]

man, this thing sounds like a beast! i wonder what ill have to do for my pc to one-up these specs.

 

[Ethelwulf]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

 

[hydragonwarrior]

All Sony needs to do is invent a term that usurp's Scorpio's power.

Imo, they should say they have 3 MEGA flops, where one MEGA flop = 6 flops

 

[Saintruski]

There's no such thing as 1080p or 4K textures. Texture resolution differs by each texture and is independent of rendering resolution (also texture dimensions are a power of 2).

He was probably thinking of texture map resolution, either way i myself do not think these specs will be capable to push 4k60. They should push for 1080p60 with this and push the eye candy to make the picture pop.

 

[Long Division]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

Maybe.

Definitely not above 30fps though.

 

[icespide]

you know its E3 when people are so excited and hype induced that they can't properly quote posts

 

[DieH@rd]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

No.

Even current PC multiplatform games can be maxed out and played at 4K60 with GPUs of that power range. For 30fps, it will be fine.

 

[DuckSlayer]

KinOfChaos is too so obviously the mods seem to be ignoring Xbox threads.

Why are you so afraid of a little old duck magpie? Cat got your tounge? Cant any of you handle crow served just the way you like to make it?

 

[Gormenghast]

Just not true, disproven by pretty much all benchmarks you can find. A 750 Ti performs about on par with PS4 while having less TFLOPS.

A 750 Ti is a full generation ahead. It's like comparing the Scorpio to GPUs released in 2018 and 2019. OF COURSE they'll keep up.

But you'll definitely need more than current (1070) 6 Gflops on PC to match that console output. Probably a match for the Scorpio will be at least a 1080 right now, or a 1080 Ti for same or slightly better performance at same settings/resolution. The follow up of the 1070/1080 will probably match the Scorpio for a lower price, of course.

 

[HYDE]

All the power in the world doesn't matter if Sony releases Neo first and cheaper, as it looks like. I mean, what is MS strategy? Arriving late at everything?

100% agree, not to mention if gens are gone, how easy it will be to shit on their idea later by announcing the newer rendition on it's way before XBone 2 even comes out.

 

[Aztechnology]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

Honestly for 30fps possibly. But some setting will have to be turned down. The real question is the CPU here. I think you might see 4k 30fps but personally I think more would enjoy the advantages of 60fps over 4k.

 

[Shubit]

48CUs is Vega but it won't be compatible with GDDR5X.

That is why I believe in Polaris with 40CUs.

Vega is 64 CUs (4096 stream processors).

For each uarch/fab process combo there is a certain balance between clock, number of transistors and the resulting TDP. With 40 compute units (rather than 48) Scorpio GPU needs to be clocked nearly 200 MHz higher to hit ~6TF. Even though Polaris based discrete graphics cards go that high, for my speculative setup I chose a setup that would be clocked closer to Neo, assuming there are TDP benefits for a wider, lower clocked GPU.

Although now you have me thinking it's a 3x16 CU setup rather than 4x12 which would bring the geometry rate down to ~2.9 billion verts/s.

 

[rrc1594]

So how long is X1 going to be supported?

 

[ScepticMatt]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

nah. Maybe at 10 TF.

RX 480 is a capped Polaris with 36CUs... full Polaris has 40CUs and it will be sold up to $300 (480X? 490?) while we wait Vega.

There is no 480X/490 Polaris. The lineup is 480,470,460.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

you know its E3 when people are so excited and hype induced that they can't properly quote posts

Or when they create new threads based on wrong (or totally made up) information.

 

[icespide]

So how long is X1 going to be supported?

my personal guess? whatever the console AFTER scorpio is when the Xbox 1 stops getting support for new games

Or when they create new threads based on wrong (or totally made up) information.

hey you got me there

 

[dose]

Yes choice is terrible for consumers. When will corporations learn we desire less choice.

Yeh, all those decades of gaming where there was only one iteration of a console was terrible for the consumer....

Many people are idiots thats about the worst rationale for an argument ever .. Digital foundry just became microsofts best friend.

I play 360 games and xbox one games and soon ill play scorpio games all on one machine .. Kinda like a pc it has backwards compatibility lol cool as ...only a sony fanboy who forgot every previous ps had backwards compatibility as a feature would say thats a bad thing ( and yes there are a lot here) Hows ea noaccess going for you?

I have no idea what you're on about, what does EA access have to do with anything I mentioned? Lol seriously. Also, there are devs on here (me included) that think it's a bad idea, so you are saying they are all idiots? Cool ok. I think it's a bad idea for MS and Sony, I'm not taking any sides.

 

[MCD]

Anyone remember X1 making of video? The head engineer said something like "we purposely made a weak hardware"

Look where we are now. Complete 180 degree change. No more gimmics. Just pure power.

 

[Beerman462]

Ha ok. You're wrong and I'll leave it at that. There is a huge difference between TF performance on consoles vs PCs. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. It's more around 10-25% depending on the software and how much time is spent in dedicating it to the hardware.

Your wrong. Look at all the Face offs where the 750ti hung with the PS4 even though it was less powerful. Also if you want you can look my thread on GAF showing an 8800GT at equivilent settings and flops(downclocked my 8800GT by half) perfroming almost exactly the same as an Xbox 360. There is a mountain of eveidence from this gen alone proving you wrong. As others have said CPUs? Yeah optimization helps. GPUs? Nope.

 

[wapplew]

I think this and neo will fail it come against consoles philosophy.

I don't go as far as want them to fail, just hope they keep the traditional cycle. Beyond generation is stupid, #keeptradition

 

[ethomaz]

The reason comparing TF is meaningless is directly because of optimization and the lack of hardware variety in the console space allowing better performance per flop. PC hardware can flop like crazy and still stutter on shitty console ports which happen all the time. A console will always go further on less power or TF.

That was true when console had a different hardware (until PS360 gen).

Today consoles uses the same PC hardware and in the case of PS4/Xbox One the same AMD CPU/GPU... the metric used to calculate the FLOPs for AMD's GPUs is the same... the RAW performance based in these FLOPs metrics.

What changes is optimizations... like it is possible on console you use 80% of these FLOPs while in PC you are using 70%.

That was the case before PC get close to metal APIs... today you can compare games on consoles runs similar (same settings) on consoles and AMD's GPU with same TFs.

I bet you can't list one game on consoles that runs better than the same game on PC with similar GPU?

 

[Eylos]

e3 guys its there! wait...

 

[rrc1594]

Anyone remember X1 making of video? The head engineer said something like "we purposely made a weak hardware"

Look where we are now. Complete 180 degree change. No more gimmics. Just pure power.

That MS in a nutshell over the last 3 years

 

[Pathfinder]

Anyone remember X1 making of video? The head engineer said something like "we purposely made a weak hardware"

Look where we are now. Complete 180 degree change. No more gimmics. Just pure power.

Well, that's what the consumer wants.

 

[Gormenghast]

Honestly for 30fps possibly. But some setting will have to be turned down. The real question is the CPU here. I think you might see 4k 30fps but personally I think more would enjoy the advantages of 60fps over 4k.

CPU has little to no relevance on increasing pixels count. If the CPU can keep 60fps it will be able to do the same at higher res.

 

[vcc]

Any game can run on old hardware it just needs lower poly models and cutting effects. Just like a low end PC would. This is good for MS as the newest halo looking like poop on old consoles will arm twist people into upgrading while still maintaining a large user base.

There will be plenty of games that will be a mess for one or the other and a few a mess for both. Games for that platform will still have to contend with general designs that work on the lowest powered machine. I don't think it's as easy as you think. So many studios struggle and fail with the PC scaled model. Now it's mandatory for all the machines that might change things but I expect a fair number of train wrecks on both new tiered consoles.

 

[ethomaz]

There is no 480X/490 Polaris. The lineup is 480,470,460.

lol you will see them until late of the year.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Because its going to be fail 2017 for sonys machine as it aint doing premium vr or 4k ..its obvious over next 3-4 years 4k and vr will become mainstream

You're going to look foolish when you see average consumers purchasing the PS4 over the Scorpio because of the cheaper price tag as well as the extraordinary gaming library, then even more foolish once Sony brings out the PS5 in another year or two eclipsing Microsoft in power once again.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

I don't go as far as want them to fail, just hope they keep the traditional cycle. Beyond generation is stupid, #keeptradition

I rather get my upgrade 4 years after launch than still getting this game that already have to sacrifice a lot on this consoles.
I especially look at Frostbite games.

 

[Beerman462]

That was true when console had a different hardware (until PS360 gen).

Today consoles uses the same PC hardware and in the case of PS4/Xbox One the same AMD CPU/GPU... the metric used to calculate the FLOPs for AMD's GPUs is the same... the RAW performance based in these FLOPs metrics.

What changes is optimizations... like it is possible on console you use 80% of these FLOPs while in PC you are using 70%.

That was the case before PC get close to metal APIs... today you can compare games on consoles runs similar (same settings) on consoles and AMD's GPU with same TFs.

I bet you can't list one game on consoles that runs better than the same game on PC with similar GPU?

10 posts saying Arkham Knight incoming.

 

[Antonio Banderas]

You have Duck Racing in Shenmue 2 maybe Duckslayer is a mini game in Shenmue 3

Can't wait for Scorpio

 

[Arnie7]

Pointless. Both this and Neo will fail to gain mass market appeal apart from hardcore. Casuals don't care about 4K. VR maybe but that's a different story.

 

[CyberPunked]

Is 6tflops enough for premium 4k gaming?

No. Especially not fall 2017 games.
They're just using 4K as a buzzword. Developers will opt for better visuals, like they do now and always have, because that's what the majority of people want.

 

[vcc]

That was true when console had a different hardware (until PS360 gen).

Today consoles uses the same PC hardware and in the case of PS4/Xbox One the same AMD CPU/GPU... the metric used to calculate the FLOPs for AMD's GPUs is the same... the RAW performance based in these FLOPs metrics.

What changes is optimizations... like it is possible on console you use 80% of these FLOPs while in PC you are using 70%.

That was the case before PC get close to metal APIs... today you can compare games on consoles runs similar (same settings) on consoles and AMD's GPU with same TFs.

I bet you can't list one game on consoles that runs better than the same game on PC with similar GPU?

PS4/PC darksouls 3? The Witcher? We're talking 7750 equivalent GPU's right?

 

[napata]

The reason comparing TF is meaningless is directly because of optimization and the lack of hardware variety in the console space allowing better performance per flop. PC hardware can flop like crazy and still stutter on shitty console ports which happen all the time. A console will always go further on less power or TF.

Does it? Can you give some examples of this? I can only remember AK. I can give you plenty examples of stuttering console versions though. Also PCs with a PS4 equivalent gpu almost always match the PS4.

 

[Epix]

OP says 2017 but this is dropping this August right?

 

[Bsigg12]

OP says 2017 but this is dropping this August right?

That's the Slim. The Scorpio is next year.

 

[Dreadnought]

OP says 2017 but this is dropping this August right?

Xbox One Slim is coming this year Scorpio is next year

 

[Mass Appeal]

OP says 2017 but this is dropping this August right?

Not Scorpio. The xbone slim is dropping in August

 

[captainraincoat]

Halo 6 on Scorpio gives me a raging boner. Cant wait.

probably a fair chance we get another forza as well for launch.....thats a pretty good combo

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Why are you so afraid of a little old duck magpie? Cat got your tounge? Cant any of you handle crow served just the way you like to make it?

What are you talking about? I wasn't even referring to you.

 

[mjp2417]

A 750 Ti is a full generation ahead. It's like comparing the Scorpio to GPUs released in 2018 and 2019. OF COURSE they'll keep up.

But you'll definitely need more than current (1070) 6 Gflops on PC to match that console output. Probably a match for the Scorpio will be at least a 1080 right now, or a 1080 Ti for same or slightly better performance at same settings/resolution. The follow up of the 1070/1080 will probably match the Scorpio for a lower price, of course.

You're setting yourself up for some pretty major disappointment if you think this machine is going to match those cards.

 

[DuckSlayer]

You're going to look foolish when you see average consumers purchasing the PS4 over the Scorpio because of the cheaper price tag as well as the extraordinary gaming library, then even more foolish once Sony brings out the PS5 in another year or two eclipsing Microsoft in power once again.

Ok yes ill wait 4 years to look foolish lol .. Whilst i already have plenty of awesome 360 and xbox one games to play along with more pc games than ever before. Other than uncharted im struggling to see anything im missing out on .. Mind u i have forza halo recore gears of war scalebound qunatum break ... Oh wait only im not alowed to comment on console wars thats right lol
.. My bad

 

[wachie]

That's the Slim. The Scorpio is next year.

Fall 2017 to be more accurate.

 

[darkinstinct]

PC has cheaters galore, Xbox doesn't have that problem for the most part.

I think part of the UWP initiative is to lock down cheaters on PC.