I HATE Zelda puzzles or dungeons. And that's most of what you're doing... for the majority of the later 3D Zelda games. It wasn't always like that. Which is why I significantly prefer the NES Zelda games.
I still play all of the games because I still consider myself a fan of the franchise and they have their moments. Besides, I want to keep my rankings list up to date as much as possible!
......i maybe a Zelda noob here as i started playing Zelda from Phantom Hourglass to WWHD, to TLBW to Minish Cap, to TFH and finally TP HD.
......i feel all Zelda had puzzle as their main feature here whether it is 2D or 3D. If you said, you hated the puzzle, i can't even see how you can survive playing all those Zelda games here.
Except for the battle which again also plays kinda like some mini puzzle, the whole game is easily Big puzzle game sprinkled with battle and some exploration. Puzzle is like Zelda bread and butter.
Yeah. There will be jaggies tomorrow. And people will complain. And other people will needlessly defend it. It'll look good for a Wii U game imo, and NX verison will hopefully look even better. Art style looks on point.
I hear this sometimes and it's always weird to me. I mean, I'd wager you're in dungeons for a good 3/4 of Zelda games. And the there's the pre-dungeon parts, which are puzzles themselves, since you're usually not exploring, just doing stuff to open X door.
like, if someone doesn't like puzzles, I don't see how they can like Zelda. That's most of what you're doing.
Exploration can add to it, but I can't see someone liking Zelda if that's their focus and the puzzles aren't for them. Exploration seems more like an added component.
This may sound extreme, but in mind it's like if someone said "I like FFX because of blitzball, but I don't like any of the other stuff."
My repsonses would be, "Are you sure you like FFX?"
(An arguement could be made for Wind Waker having a larger exploration component...but apparenly everyone hated the sailing in WW now lol. And then conversely Skyward had one of the smallest explorationc components, and it's the most recent. So it varies at least.)
In the 2D games, the focus of Zelda was exploration and combat, with light puzzle elements for variety. Combat is a focus because 2D is clear and precise, and it's a good measure of skill in this environment. Visual puzzles meanwhile are relatively limited and generally less engaging on a 2D plane so they're used sparingly to mix things up. Very often you can literally stand still and work out a puzzle from one screen. Also, your view of the screen isn't dynamic -- the things that make each screen different are generally the enemies moving around randomly, again bringing the focus to combat.
In the 3D games, the focus of Zelda switched to exploration and puzzles, with light combat for variety. This is because combat in 3D is intrinsically less precise than 2D, and harder to measure for skill. Meanwhile visual puzzles are generally more engaging in a 3D space and utilize more of the act of moving around the space to solve them. Puzzles in these environments require movement around the environments and camera movement. You can't see the entire puzzle all at once much of the time, which makes solving them more challenging and interesting. Your view of the screen is dynamic, meaning even if you're in one area, you're seeing it in a million different views and unlikely to see it from the exact same perspective twice (even though you can still get tired from familiarity, of course).
Similarly, Nintendo changed the focus of Mario when moving into 3D, reducing the focus on interaction with enemies until they discovered ways to make the gameplay effectively 2D again in Galaxy and 3D World, which use clever camera tricks to put the action on a single plane as much of the time as possible.
There is a chance they can do this with Zelda with similar camera techniques, but considering what we've seen so far I highly doubt it's the case.
My guess is they're going to focus on the bow because it changes the gameplay into a 2D plane again. The reticule moves on a 2D plane (the screen, x and y) and not z. Either something is targeted or it isn't. This is more satisfying than trying to judge depth and hoping your sword can hit for a lot of reasons. It's easier to model hit reactions because you can pinpoint where an arrow hit as opposed to a sword "going through" enemies, and it also is much easier to economize. One of the best things about 2D Zeldas, and especially the first one, is that the economy is so good that it encourages you to try different things. Bombs aren't constantly replenished, and arrows cost money per fire. Making sword strikes "costly" usually means a stamina bar or having armor drain rupees like Twilight Princess, which tends to be less elegant.
Anyway, I mixed a little of my hopes in there at the end regarding the economy, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a strong focus on arrowplay in this game, both for fighting enemies but also traversal (rope swing mechanics, attach points to climb cliffs, tracking devices, puzzles, and what have you.
edit: ^^ oh yeah, I agree. I was mainly talking about the 3D Zeldas since I've played all of them, whereas I haven't played all the 2D ones. I should've mentioned that.
early 2D zeldas were definitely more about exploration.
I was mostly talking about graphics and not design. When you look at something state of the art like God of War, isn't it hard to look at something that's ostensibly last gen and be impressed? That's kind of where my head is at. When we play the game, it's still going to have that graphical look that came out a decade ago.
I was mostly talking about graphics and not design. When you look at something state of the art like God of War, isn't it hard to look at something that's ostensibly last gen and be impressed? That's kind of where my head is at. When we play the game, it's still going to have that graphical look that came out a decade ago.
What a stupid thing to say. First of all, Zelda games have always been highly stylized, second of all I see you are perfectly happy with PS4 game visuals while they are a generation behind what we play on PC.
......i maybe a Zelda noob here as i started playing Zelda from Phantom Hourglass to WWHD, to TLBW to Minish Cap, to TFH and finally TP HD.
......i feel all Zelda had puzzle as their main feature here whether it is 2D or 3D. If you said, you hated the puzzle, i can't even see how you can survive playing all those Zelda games here.
Except for the battle which again also plays kinda like some mini puzzle, the whole game is easily Big puzzle game sprinkled with battle and some exploration. Puzzle is like Zelda bread and butter.
......i maybe a Zelda noob here as i started playing Zelda from Phantom Hourglass to WWHD, to TLBW to Minish Cap, to TFH and finally TP HD.
......i feel all Zelda had puzzle as their main feature here whether it is 2D or 3D. If you said, you hated the puzzle, i can't even see how you can survive playing all those Zelda games here.
Except for the battle which again also plays kinda like some mini puzzle, the whole game is easily Big puzzle game sprinkled with battle and some exploration. Puzzle is like Zelda bread and butter.
I survive by complaining a lot. But I genuinely do enjoy the thought of playing these games, appreciate the effort and design that went into them, and enjoy analyzing the games while playing them. I don't really play the Zelda games for the games themselves, but the act of playing them for meta reasons (studying design, discussion with others, rankings (which is my favorite thing ever)). Of course, being pleasantly surprised and growing to enjoy the games on their own terms is ideal, but I don't really expect that since Zelda's design is firmly rooted against what I think the series should go for.
In summary, me talking to you right now about Zelda is one of the big reasons why I play these games.
Also the 2D Zelda games have a different approach to puzzles, at least the ones I've played. They tend to be a lot more straight forward and utilitarian. I don't really enjoy them, but I don't not enjoy them either. They're busywork while I hit bad guys in stuff like ALBW.
But Zelda 1 an Zelda 2? Those games were not puzzle focused at all and I adored their approach to exploration, challenge, adventure, and scope. They really do feel like adventures to me.
I like the franchise, but I don't LOVE the franchise because it long ago took a direction that I don't like but I stick with it for completion's sake and because I have faith in it.
I hope that at least makes things a little more clear!
I survive by complaining a lot. But I genuinely do enjoy the thought of playing these games, appreciate the effort and design that went into them, and enjoy analyzing the games while playing them. I don't really play the Zelda games for the games themselves, but the act of playing them for meta reasons (studying design, discussion with others, rankings (which is my favorite thing ever)). Of course, being pleasantly surprised and growing to enjoy the games on their own terms is ideal, but I don't really expect that since Zelda's design is firmly rooted against what I think the series should go for.
In summary, me talking to you right now about Zelda is one of the big reasons why I play these games.
Also the 2D Zelda games have a different approach to puzzles, at least the ones I've played. They tend to be a lot more straight forward and utilitarian. I don't really enjoy them, but I don't not enjoy them either. They're busywork while I hit bad guys in stuff like ALBW.
But Zelda 1 an Zelda 2? Those games were not puzzle focused at all and I adored their approach to exploration, challenge, adventure, and scope. They really do feel like adventures to me.
I like this post!!! It portrays the differences in style very clearly.
I like the franchise, but I don't LOVE the franchise because it long ago took a direction that I don't like but I stick with it for completion's sake and because I have faith in it.
I hope that at least makes things a little more clear!
........ i am sorry if this sounds rude here but..... you sounds masochist there lol.^_^ Playing games you hate on major of its aspect.
On NES...... don't you think hoping for the game to return to its origin which is released on 1986 and 1987(30 years ago) is kinda futile? I mean the game already had their own identity now which is more on puzzle. Don't you think them changing the genre and focus is going to lead to even more backlash by fans who actually looking for "Zelda" specific experience.
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
In the 2D games, the focus of Zelda was exploration and combat, with light puzzle elements for variety. Combat is a focus because 2D is clear and precise, and it's a good measure of skill in this environment. Visual puzzles meanwhile are relatively limited and generally less engaging on a 2D plane so they're used sparingly to mix things up. Very often you can literally stand still and work out a puzzle from one screen. Also, your view of the screen isn't dynamic -- the things that make each screen different are generally the enemies moving around randomly, again bringing the focus to combat.
In the 3D games, the focus of Zelda switched to exploration and puzzles, with light combat for variety. This is because combat in 3D is intrinsically less precise than 2D, and harder to measure for skill. Meanwhile visual puzzles are generally more engaging in a 3D space and utilize more of the act of moving around the space to solve them. Puzzles in these environments require movement around the environments and camera movement. You can't see the entire puzzle all at once much of the time, which makes solving them more challenging and interesting. Your view of the screen is dynamic, meaning even if you're in one area, you're seeing it in a million different views and unlikely to see it from the exact same perspective twice (even though you can still get tired from familiarity, of course).
It's always odd to me seeing people refer to 2D Zeldas as combat-focused ones since to me the 3D ones have the more in-depth combat systems. I get why people say it since combat and knowing where to go were 2D Zeldas main obstacles, whereas 3D Zeldas increased its puzzles and traversal stuff, but I always found 3D Zelda's combat more engaging even though it was easier since it gave you more tools like z-targeting, special moves, hidden skills, or Skyward Sword's motion controls. Whereas, 2D Zelda to me has always been *mash b repeatedly at slowly approaching enemies*.
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
........ i am sorry if this sounds rude here but..... you sounds masochist there lol.^_^ Playing games you hate on major of its aspect.
On NES...... don't you think hoping for the game to return to its origin which is released on 1986 and 1987(30 years ago) is kinda futile? I mean the game already had their own identity now which is more on puzzle. Don't you think them changing the genre and focus is going to lead to even more backlash by fans who actually looking for "Zelda" specific experience.
Nah, that's fine! I totally know I deserve it so I take it in good faith. But I'm not kidding when there's aspects of the games I really love, like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess' MINDBLOWING art styles and Wind Waker's Triforce Hunt. I also like the characters, the combat, and sometimes the exploration and sidequests.
But by far my favorite part of playing Zelda games and what keeps me going is the fact that I've played them and then being able to add them to a giant list of Zelda games I've played, ranked from best to worst! I LOOOOOVE ranking things. Also Zelda isn't even close to being insufferable, which I do the same for other series.
Also yeah it is futile, but hey I'm an optimistic soul who more than happy to give something a try (because complaining about something I haven't tried is dumb) and hey! What if I love it??? I loved Triforce Heroes, so I can't give up!
Again no. I mean that Nintendo fans looking for E3-related news more or less have to just sit around and wait through the rest of the day for tomorrow.
You mean how fans have been "sitting around" the entire week waiting for ms/sony/nintendo events? But nintendo fans are cursed by having to endure through one more day of being stunned and incapacitated? Yes, I see your point now.
On topic: Horizons looks cool, but I got no Zelda vibes from it. If anything it looked more like a MonHun with bots.
They just play a part without the use of dialog boxes, which would be easy if they avoided most cutscenes. That's never really been a problem for Zelda demos before.
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
They just play a part without the use of dialog boxes, which would be easy if they avoided most cutscenes. That's never really been a problem for Zelda demos before.
I thought the same but even during the treehouse event there will probably be close to an hour of gameplay - there would surely be dialog in that span of time.
Sure, I could be wrong and Nintendo could disappoint once again with VA...sigh
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
I'm pretty agnostic about voice acting in Zelda. I can live with or without it.
I'm leaning more towards "why not". I've never been one for tradition anyway, let's fix what isn't broken because you might as well do something interesting and different!
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
I will absolutely let you guys know what I think of it, though. Whether or not you care about what I have to say is up to you, but at least I think I did a fair job contextualizing my feelings on the franchise, so you can weigh my opinion appropriately!
Thank you so much! And no offense at all! I'm actually glad you found the resemblance since that's precisely where I got the reference for his face haha. Big fan of Toriyama and that's actually my favorite era of his style when he was drawing manga! The Dr.Slump and early Dragon Ball days. Such a unique style.
Thank you so much! And no offense at all! I'm actually glad you found the resemblance since that's precisely where I got the reference for his face haha. Big fan of Toriyama and that's actually my favorite era of his style when he was drawing manga! The Dr.Slump and early Dragon Ball days. Such a unique style.
Thank you so much! And no offense at all! I'm actually glad you found the resemblance since that's precisely where I got the reference for his face haha. Big fan of Toriyama and that's actually my favorite era of his style when he was drawing manga! The Dr.Slump and early Dragon Ball days. Such a unique style.
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
Not sure if joke or not, but Link's shield in Zelda 1 and 2 always has a cross symbol on it in the artworks. I think A Linkt to the Past was the first time they went away from that.
Zelda's inspiration go partially back to Fairy Tales, often had heroes inspired by medieval knights or princes, and i think it was pretty normal for such people to have a holy symbol on their gear.
Zelda is still the show stealer I reckon, nothing has blew me away like Sony did last year with Shenmue announcement and FF7R and there was no sign of any update on that.
Nintendo Is all about the tight gameplay others learn from the masters!
I just did a quick and silly looking Link based on the chibi Link from Game and Watch since I cannot sleep because of hype.
Will try to sleep now since I have to work and I don't wannaaa! I should have asked tomorrow off. Oh well hope I can make it in time to watch the stream live with y'all!
Nah, that's fine! I totally know I deserve it so I take it in good faith. But I'm not kidding when there's aspects of the games I really love, like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess' MINDBLOWING art styles and Wind Waker's Triforce Hunt. I also like the characters, the combat, and sometimes the exploration and sidequests.
But by far my favorite part of playing Zelda games and what keeps me going is the fact that I've played them and then being able to add them to a giant list of Zelda games I've played, ranked from best to worst! I LOOOOOVE ranking things. Also Zelda isn't even close to being insufferable, which I do the same for other series.
Also yeah it is futile, but hey I'm an optimistic soul who more than happy to give something a try (because complaining about something I haven't tried is dumb) and hey! What if I love it??? I loved Triforce Heroes, so I can't give up!
Lol, i do see what you are saying there. WWHD sea exploration is really fun especially when i found some small island and it end up with me exploring the whole island to look for some secret. I just like some of those small bits.^_^
Well, all in all. It is always nice to see rare beings like us which really loved TFH.^_^ So..... more power to both of us lol. Even when you don't like the puzzle section.^_^
