Dishonored 2 to feature prominent LGBT characters
- Thread starter theecakee
- Start date
Emperor_Uriel
Member
I think Moff's point might have been made with the context of this thread I made a while back, where we were discussing how weird it is that game devs are borderline allergic to playable heterosexual women due to publishers' perceptions of the perceived straight male audience.
I get that your friend doesn't have tons of options either, but straight women have almost none and make up way more of the population. That's pretty jarring and inexcusable.
Also, as someone who counsels young women, I can tell you that lesbian stereotypes effecting girls' abilities to dress and behave the way that they want is an immense problem. For every masculine lesbian, there are a dozen straight girls who wish they could dress and present themselves in a more traditionally "boyish" manner, but can't due to assumptions that boys would make about their sexuality.
By having masculine, heterosexual protagonists in badass games like Dishonored, you send a strong message to both boys and girls who play the character. Girls feel empowered and see that a woman can simultaneously be competent, masculine and sexually desirable to men. Boys experience a power fantasy through the lens of a powerful woman, and may even find that strength and masculinity are desirable traits in women. (And don't go saying that they shouldn't be playing it at all because it's M-rated. That ship has sailed.)
This is why I'm hoping Aloy from Horizon will be explicitly straight. Depictions of lesbian relationships aren't in need of the immense remodeling that heterosexual romances are. We have to start undoing literal Millennia of awful power dynamics here.
Uhm.. that's weird that something relatively unimportant whatsoever to the game both in terms of narrative and gameplay has made you decide to buy it. I understand wanting more sexual and racial diversity in games, but going as far as boycotting?
what
BoyCotting?
I had zero interest in the game. I go out of my way to support games that feature gay men or lesbian women so I can support dev's who bring representation to my community.
So they got my money simply for that where as I haven't even played Dishonored 1.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think I go as far as you, but this somewhat describes my experiences as well. A game gets new consideration from me in these cases.
It seems to me that you could rather spend $60 on several LGBT foundations instead of a game you have zero interest in. In the first case it'll probably go to the very things you find important in the acceptance of LGBT.
But hey, I'm not stopping you. The more Dishonored 2 sells the better.
I give alot of time and effort for local LBGT efforts thanks.
Games that feature representation are very important given how few we have so it's super important to do so if we want to continue to get LBGT characters.
Huh?
GavinUK86
Member
And you wasn't before you knew this?
This makes you buy a game?
The fact that it's probably going to be an amazing game, possibly GOTY, doesn't get you to buy it?
partyphone
Banned
it's great when AAA devs seems to get it and are trying to have better characters and stories and worlds.
still rolling my eyes at the "mechanical apartheid" crap in deus ex.
still rolling my eyes at the "mechanical apartheid" crap in deus ex.
Nah. I hate First person titles and don't care for stealth gameplay.
And you wasn't before you knew this?
This makes you buy a game?
The fact that it's probably going to be an amazing game, possibly GOTY, doesn't get you to buy it?
GavinUK86
Member
So you don't even want the game anyway?
partyphone
Banned
people put different values on different things in games! i know this is a shocking thing to say on neogaf, where most people think a review score is a scientific consensus.
Theanine3D
Member
FWIW, you could play the first game like a shooter, without even trying to be stealthy.
That was part of what made it so fun. It gave you total freedom to play in the style you preferred. I imagine the sequel will be similar.
Of course, don't mind me, just wanted to clear up my confusion.
Besides the confusion as to how Deus Ex fits into Dishonored 2 featuring LGBT characters, the mechanical apartheid makes sense in the way that augmented people and non-augmented people are segregated just as white and black people were. In that regard it makes perfect sense.
jediyoshi
Member
Is your issue at Deus Ex literally just that term?
Hmm. I might grab a copy then and try to play through it if this is the case.
GavinUK86
Member
ThatStupidLion
Member
Why is a characters sexuality so import anyways in a game unless it is story related?
I mean get the reasoning behind it that there should be more gay characters to show some equality. But is it really that important for a developer to announce that this character is gay when all the character does is kill monsters for the whole game... Why cant it be openended and if you want/think of the character as gay then they are if not then so be it. Why does every character need to have rules in stone. No one used to care, it was just play this game for fun. If you want to imagine them as bisexual go for it.
And im not trying to down play the equality of the matter and i know this may come off as crude but its possible the investors think a game with a clearly defined gay hero/story may sell less than a more ambiguous or straight character. Which is prob why devs dont do it more. All about the money. Unfortunately, Its hard enough to get straight female mains even. Hell its hard enough for gay athletes to feel comfortable, be recognized properly, and paid/treated equally.
I mean get the reasoning behind it that there should be more gay characters to show some equality. But is it really that important for a developer to announce that this character is gay when all the character does is kill monsters for the whole game... Why cant it be openended and if you want/think of the character as gay then they are if not then so be it. Why does every character need to have rules in stone. No one used to care, it was just play this game for fun. If you want to imagine them as bisexual go for it.
And im not trying to down play the equality of the matter and i know this may come off as crude but its possible the investors think a game with a clearly defined gay hero/story may sell less than a more ambiguous or straight character. Which is prob why devs dont do it more. All about the money. Unfortunately, Its hard enough to get straight female mains even. Hell its hard enough for gay athletes to feel comfortable, be recognized properly, and paid/treated equally.
Moff
Member
That's true, I remember that thread. Sarkeesian also talked about that in one of her latest videos.
That's a great point, thanks for bringing it up. It also explains why I think RPGs where basically every option is available are not that powerful, it's certainly good and commendable the gay and gender options even exist there, but the message to the industry and all genders and orientations in the audience is so much stronger if the story is set in stone.
Forsaken82
Member
Really?
So in your opinion the sexual orientation of prominent characters completely change the game?
What happened to just enjoying games because they were fun to play? Now it's all about sexual orientation, race/culture sell. No wonder games lack the fun factor that they used to.
Felix Lighter
Member
They aren't pandering to a cultural trend. They are making their products to sell and make a profit and now, finally, having more diverse characters in games is slowly but surely becoming fiscally feasible for these companies, apparently. Things are progressing in the right direction, even with some ridiculous resistance. It's nothing but good no matter how cynical you want to look at it. Someday, it won't be remarkable. Unfortunately, today it still is.
Seems only like a very small - yet relatively vocal - minority. I suppose the term apartheid is still fresh, because I don't think they'd be at odds with it in terms of the concept of augmented and non-augmented people being segregated in society.
partyphone
Banned
it's all about writing in games and how awful it has been for so long. defaulting to straight white men is a huge part of that. using hamfisted metaphors like "mechanical apartheid" is another. something like that might be funny in a Blood Dragon style parody game but it just comes across as lazy and lame in a multimillion dollar game that apparently has a super serious story for adults.
Riposte
Member
I was convinced the main character and his buddy (F) in Advanced Warfare were going to be a gay couple based on the E3 showing.
There would be some interesting tension of being gay, but also having the expectation of getting married and producing an heir.
partyphone
Banned
DEHR has awful writing. i loved playing the game but the story was just bad and most of the characters are worse. if i were to give story and gameplay equal weight in a review score it would get a 5/10.
putting "mechanical apartheid" front and center in your marketing does not give me much hope that DE:MD is going to be any better in that regard. rest of the game looks sweet, though.
GavinUK86
Member
I'm not one of them. I agree with your previous post:
Opinions though right? I liked the story, the writing and the characters so I have high hopes for Mankind Divided and I think mechanical apartheid works within context.
Moff
Member
why is it important that we have black leads in big hollywood movies?
of course the quality of the game or movie is not touched by decisions like that, but I still feel it's important that media portrays all kinds of people and sends messages like that not only white straight men can be empowered heroes.
You know how straight male characters sometimes give off cues to indicate they think a woman is attractive -- they get nervous, they flirt, they try to impress her -- and that's an indicator that they're straight that doesn't dominate the story or make it revolve around their sexuality? Like that. But gay.
It's not a theme.
But any time same sex attraction between women appears in games, people call it pandering to straight men. When same sex attraction between men appears, they say it's pandering to gay men.
Gay sexuality is always pandering and the female gaze never exists, lesbian or otherwise.
-duskdoll-
Member
ZehDon
Gold Member
I really hope it's not. Being as his heterosexual relationship with the assassinated queen in the previous game formed the character's core motivation, and resulted in Emily, changing his sexual orientation and/or gender would render the whole thing suspect, sadly removing the quotation marks from the first post. I hope we have all new interesting characters to interact with.
I do say I hope the masculine woman isn't gay. I get tired of seeing Masculine Women as gay...Plenty of us gay women also are feminine and hyper "girly" and are attracted to it as well.
I agree showing a more tomboy/butchish/masculine ladies as completely straight is something that's be cool.
I agree showing a more tomboy/butchish/masculine ladies as completely straight is something that's be cool.
DOWN
Banned
literally no one is interested in or asking for purposeless unnatural representation so congrats on your concern being purposeless
I don't think I understand the "straight white men" part. The previous Deus Ex had a lot of black people in it, primarily because the first HUB area was set in Detroit (over 80% black) so in that regard they were consistent with real life. And with Prague and Dubai, the places we've been shown thus far in Mankind Divided, there aren't a lot of black people, so obviously you won't see them a lot. Especially Prague is relatively snow white. But in Dubai's case I've seen a lot of Arab people as well, so there's that.
You can think whatever you want of the political load of using the word apartheid, but Eidos Montreal would be one of the last studios I'd accuse of having a white mentality.
-duskdoll-
Member
It's important that minorities can identify with characters in the media so they feel like regular people.
He could be bisexual/pansexual.
keltickennedy
Member
I bet it's Delilah Copperspoon. She was in the second expansion DLC for the first game.
GavinUK86
Member
Cherry pick all you like I'm sticking to my guns. Great game, great writing, great characters.
"No wonder games lack the fun factor that they used to."
In a Dishonored thread
LMAO
I really like they way that was handled in game of thrones. I'd kill for a game with that level of writing.
You know the B in LBGT.
Granted I've never played 1, but from what a I've read Corvo at no point says he is strictly a straight man.
You'd have to ask generations of storytellers who have filled most stories about the human existence with moments of love and romance, however briefly. Human relationships are a huge part of our experience of the world. Sex and sexual attraction form a large foundation of these experiences for many people. That's why we like to tell stories that acknowledge this aspect of our humanity.
Hell, it's why people see a little boy who has developed no sexual urges doing anything near a girl and they joke that he has a crush on her. People do that all the time, bringing straight sexuality up everywhere in conversations and locations where it honestly has nothing to do with the reality and serves nothing other than people like to talk about sex, and that goes without question. But you suggest even acknowledging gay sexuality and suddenly we need to know to what ends.
One of the characters is bisexual, so it would not require making any changes if he was also attracted to men.
Not entirely purposeless if I, for example, look at Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition. He has "stereotypical gay" written all over him, and I don't think that's a good example of LGBT characters done right. The whole point is that anyone can be gay or straight, and that it isn't something often see from the exterior.
DOWN
Banned
Guess you missed this sensitive, tasteful npc
___
How is he stereotypical?
Moff
Member
he could still be bi, the b in LGTB. I doubt that very much though, although I would love it.
and if it's just a new character, which means a side character, this really isn't a big deal. we need LGTB player characters.
and yes, straight female player characters with romantic interests
Some people find having their humanity acknowledged instead of constantly ignored sort of fun. I don't know, it's crazy.
And honestly, when there are so many games coming out that center around almost identical gameplay concepts a lot of the time, creating a more diverse lineup of characters is a huge motivator to check something out.