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[PJV3]

Hey Nige,

Go Farage yourself.

I think he knows it's over and is just poisoning the well now.

 

[OverBlood 3]

I think he knows it's over and is just poisoning the well now.

He's far too deluded to have that awareness of himself...or anything.

 

[phisheep]

Why are we letting 70/80yo who likely won't even live long enough to see the mess they create vote? I know that's unpopular, but it's frustrating to see a voting base have so much power but so little stake in the future they vote for.

And, since the mess is likely to start this coming Friday I don't think your argument about age has much force!

 

[ferrasvansen]

I think he knows it's over and is just poisoning the well now.

Yeah he has lost the plot, guess his private polling has told him the game is up.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Oh, why don't you come straight out with it and just deny anyone who votes Leave the right to vote, eh?

And us oldies do have a stake in the future, through our children and grandchildren if we don't live long enough to satisfy you.

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves. The arguments I've heard are about their neighbourhoods changing and them not feeling safe, mention that leaving will limit our access to Europe and hurt future generations they parrot the line about the EU needing us more than we need them.

There's no convincing these people and they have too much power to their actual stake in the future of the country.

Sorry if you're in the group of over fifties. Maybe 65 would be a better limit. Once you reach a certain age, you shouldn't have a say on key matters that will affect the country for decades. There's no sense in offering an 80yo the vote to remain or leave. They won't see past their own immediate needs.


Sigh... I'm probably rambling. I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair when I consider that people who have very little stake are the ones who made that happen.

 

[cabot]

Nah, not with you there, Miles.

I think there should have been a turnout requirement for this referendum to be binding, but no limits to age groups.

In fact, I'd like less limits. I wanted 16 year olds to be able to vote.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves. The arguments I've heard are about their neighbourhoods changing and them not feeling safe, mention that leaving will limit our access to Europe and hurt future generations they parrot the line about the EU needing us more than we need them.

There's no convincing these people and they have too much power to their actual stake in the future of the country.

Sorry if you're in the group of over fifties. Maybe 65 would be a better limit. Once you reach a certain age, you shouldn't have a say on key matters that will affect the country for decades. There's no sense in offering an 80yo the vote to remain or leave. They won't see past their own immediate needs.


Sigh... I'm probably rambling. I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair when I consider that people who have very little stake are the ones who made that happen.

This is just ageist. It's no more fair than establishing an arbitrary minimum age of 45 to vote on certain issues so voters will have the "experience" to make the right decision.

 

[CCS]

Are your Finals all done yet CCS?

They are, finished just over a week ago. Went pretty well I think, feeling confident about results. Thank you for asking

 

[Ashes]

This makes a strong argument that anyone over 50 shouldn't have been allowed to vote in this referendum.

Why are we letting 70/80yo who likely won't even live long enough to see the mess they create vote? I know that's unpopular, but it's frustrating to see a voting base have so much power but so little stake in the future they vote for.

Strong? Er no. It was the 'oldies' who 'saved' the union in the Scottish Referendum. And good thing too, oil price experts were right on the money.

Also we're a democracy. Ageist disenfranchisement seems antithetical to the very notion of democracy.

Edit: 'seems'? Is.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves. The arguments I've heard are about their neighbourhoods changing and them not feeling safe, mention that leaving will limit our access to Europe and hurt future generations they parrot the line about the EU needing us more than we need them.

There's no convincing these people and they have too much power to their actual stake in the future of the country.

Sorry if you're in the group of over fifties. Maybe 65 would be a better limit. Once you reach a certain age, you shouldn't have a say on key matters that will affect the country for decades. There's no sense in offering an 80yo the vote to remain or leave. They won't see past their own immediate needs.


Sigh... I'm probably rambling. I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair when I consider that people who have very little stake are the ones who made that happen.

This is just nonsense. Old people are not more selfish then others. They are free to vote whatever way they see fit, just like everyone else. We don't limit voting by age (except kids) or other things. Once you start doing that, where is the line. Should the unemployed still have a say in economic issues? Should the sick have a say in healthcare? I mean, they might vote for better welfare and more money for healthcare because of their own self interest!

 

[phisheep]

They are, finished just over a week ago. Went pretty well I think, feeling confident about results. Thank you for asking

Good. Best wishes for the results.

I guess with modern technology you don't have to find out by squinting at small print on a big-ass poster at the exam schools?

Maybe catch up with you at a Gaudy sometime.

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves. The arguments I've heard are about their neighbourhoods changing and them not feeling safe, mention that leaving will limit our access to Europe and hurt future generations they parrot the line about the EU needing us more than we need them.

There's no convincing these people and they have too much power to their actual stake in the future of the country.

Sorry if you're in the group of over fifties. Maybe 65 would be a better limit. Once you reach a certain age, you shouldn't have a say on key matters that will affect the country for decades. There's no sense in offering an 80yo the vote to remain or leave. They won't see past their own immediate needs.


Sigh... I'm probably rambling. I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair when I consider that people who have very little stake are the ones who made that happen.

I guess you meet a different bunch of old people than I do. (Or you are just rambling and frustrated).

Every single day I'm talking with old people from about 60 to 97 years old and, taken as a bunch, they are open, honest, give no fucks about what anyone else thinks and are kind and generous and compassionate and concerned about the world and its future and interested in what is going on. Beats the teens I meet who can't get off their iphones.

 

[CCS]

Good. Best wishes for the results.

I guess with modern technology you don't have to find out by squinting at small print on a big-ass poster at the exam schools?

Maybe catch up with you at a Gaudy sometime.

Haha certainly not, you just wake up every morning and immediately check your email to see if you have the message of doom telling you that your results are online

That would be lovely, thank you once again

 

[Horsefly]

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves.

They won't see past their own immediate needs.

I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair

brilliant

 

[SuperEpicMan]

The problem is that the oldies often only think about themselves. The arguments I've heard are about their neighbourhoods changing and them not feeling safe, mention that leaving will limit our access to Europe and hurt future generations they parrot the line about the EU needing us more than we need them.

There's no convincing these people and they have too much power to their actual stake in the future of the country.

Sorry if you're in the group of over fifties. Maybe 65 would be a better limit. Once you reach a certain age, you shouldn't have a say on key matters that will affect the country for decades. There's no sense in offering an 80yo the vote to remain or leave. They won't see past their own immediate needs.


Sigh... I'm probably rambling. I'm just frustrated, if we vote leave I'll have to move to Frankfurt because that's where my job will be moving and that's frankly unfair when I consider that people who have very little stake are the ones who made that happen.

This is just ageist. It's no more fair than establishing an arbitrary minimum age of 45 to vote on certain issues so voters will have the "experience" to make the right decision.

I kinda have to agree with Miles, after putting up with some of the ill informed rants from my grandparents, who have based their choice from 10 years of reading Daily Mail. They are stubborn and don't listen to anything else. They are also trying to convince me and the rest of my family that Turkey is joining, that the EU are unelected and if we care about future generations we should vote out.

Personally I am strongly remain, but I can also respect people for voting out so long as it is for the valid reasons, unfortunately most of the people I have spoken to who are voting out are basing it off immigration, which from what I understand, would be the same situation we are in now so long as we want a trade agreement with the EU after leaving.

 

[danowat]

Anyone just hear the interview on Radio 2?, probably the best exchange I've heard about the whole affair.

 

[Tak3n]

Farage is just setting up the aftermath.... I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

I hate to say it but anyone who thinks after the vote everyone will just say, well that is that time to move on....is in for a surprise...and that stands for both camps

 

[operon]

Can ye actually vote in the referendum in England with photo id as if turned up at the polling station on Thursday here in Northern Ireland without one I ain't voting.

What i can't understand and I know a few people like it, that believe everything the daily mail spews about the EU but know that rags like the sun are rubbish. How can anyone believe any that paper prints, voting leave is like turkeys voting for christmas

 

[PJV3]

Farage is just setting up the aftermath.... I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

I hate to say it but anyone who thinks after the vote everyone will just say, well that is that time to move on....is in for a surprise...and that stands for both camps

Just No.

After hearing Will of the British people for 30 odd years, I'm not going to be happy.

 

[Undead]

Farage is just setting up the aftermath.... I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

I hate to say it but anyone who thinks after the vote everyone will just say, well that is that time to move on....is in for a surprise...and that stands for both camps

I'm half expecting some rioting to happen

 

[mrklaw]

how close is the polling so far? Getting nervous that we might actually vote to leave. With the latest nonsense about defections and responses like 'oh we didn't realise she was on our side' I'm fucking sick of the brexit side simply dismissing any information that supports staying, seemingly without needing to show evidence of why it is wrong. So they get all the 'bah, the IMF don't know what they're talking about' soundbites repeated on the news and the news don't even question them on it.

 

[phisheep]

Farage is just setting up the aftermath.... I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

I hate to say it but anyone who thinks after the vote everyone will just say, well that is that time to move on....is in for a surprise...and that stands for both camps

Oh God. Don't go all Donald Trump on us.

Lemme guess. Because Leave led a rubbish lying campaign? Because a largish minority think Farage is a twat? Because they were convinced by the incontrovertible economic evidence? Because people aren't as Racist as Farage thought?

No, I'm stuck. Help me out here.

 

[Uzzy]

So the Office of National Statistics is publishing it's yearly estimate of the population of the UK on Thursday. This Thursday.

That'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

 

[cabot]

Farage is just setting up the aftermath.... I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

I hate to say it but anyone who thinks after the vote everyone will just say, well that is that time to move on....is in for a surprise...and that stands for both camps

And they'd be stupid for doing so, while Yes diehards are still hoping and a praying for another indyref within the decade, the majority of the population has accepted that it's been put to bed for a good long while.

Unless, you know, we do something stupid like leave the EU.

 

[mrklaw]

Nah, not with you there, Miles.

I think there should have been a turnout requirement for this referendum to be binding, but no limits to age groups.

In fact, I'd like less limits. I wanted 16 year olds to be able to vote.

I'd have liked some kind of 2/3 majority required to change the status quo. Simple majority seems too small a margin for such a potentially huge change.

 

[mrklaw]

So the Office of National Statistics is publishing it's yearly estimate of the population of the UK on Thursday. This Thursday.

That'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

Just like you aren't allowed to campaign on polling day, related materials should be delayed until afterwards IMO

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

So the Office of National Statistics is publishing it's yearly estimate of the population of the UK on Thursday. This Thursday.

That'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

I'm already having nightmares of this country going down the shitter when the inevitablle headlines about immigrants fuelling population growth sway people to vote leave.

 

[Ashes]

So the Office of National Statistics is publishing it's yearly estimate of the population of the UK on Thursday. This Thursday.

That'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

It'll be too late for papers. But it'll be on the internet.

 

[Ushojax]

So the Office of National Statistics is publishing it's yearly estimate of the population of the UK on Thursday. This Thursday.

That'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

Surely they have the good sense to delay those figures by at least 24 hours?

 

[FlammableD]

Surely they have the good sense to delay those figures by at least 24 hours?

On the other hand, if they do, Leave will automatically take it as a cover up/win, so maybe it's better to just get it out of the way.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Just like you aren't allowed to campaign on polling day, related materials should be delayed until afterwards IMO

Surely they have the good sense to delay those figures by at least 24 hours?

That would sent a dangerous precedent. They are just going to bring out facts and numbers and are not responsible for how it is reported by certain parties. Just because certain information can be used to boost either the remain or leave camp, doesn't mean it should be delayed or repressed.

Imagine a big political scandal breaking on election day and newspapers not being allowed to report on it, or the information being delayed because it might hurt a political party.

I find John Oliver's correct most of the time but I think his appeal is bound up in two things: 1) a British accent, 2) yelling, neither of which really work on me.

Agreed. His show was fun for me in the beginning, and while he still has interesting subjects he brings to attention, the way he does it gets a bit old and annoying after a while. He also repeats some punchlines way to much.

 

[Mr. Sam]

So John Oliver is currently talking about the Brexit right now. Expect the video to come up on Youtube tomorrow.

I find John Oliver's correct most of the time but I think his appeal is bound up in two things: 1) a British accent, 2) yelling, neither of which really work on me.

 

[avaya]

Look at BT, banks and REITs today

BT +5
LLOY +6
RBS +7

BT up 5% especially is cray, an incumbent telco doesn't do that unless you have consolidation in its market. I mean day after Brexit, Openreach would continue to print money for them.

Hope the celebrations aren't premature. The implied volatility shown by shares like BT tell you what will happen on Friday since this is the reaction to a few opinion polls with very very wide confidence intervals.

Just a question - I think phisheep or others more versed in the intricacies of the legal side, heard few brokers saying Scotland's laws, EU takes primacy not Westminster so there is an issue which forces a referendum....is that true? Some exiters think scots could be forced to stay with UK, but apparently this prevents that binding.

 

[Tak3n]

Oh God. Don't go all Donald Trump on us.

Lemme guess. Because Leave led a rubbish lying campaign? Because a largish minority think Farage is a twat? Because they were convinced by the incontrovertible economic evidence? Because people aren't as Racist as Farage thought?

No, I'm stuck. Help me out here.

I dont feel like this BTW, but I can see it coming a mile off by what farage has said

They are going to say they lost because of Jo Cox murder


Farage this morning

Farage accused David Cameron of trying to exploit the death of Jo Cox to help Remain. He said:
What we are seeing here is the prime minister and the Remain campaign trying to conflate the actions of one crazed individual with the motives of half of Britain who think we should get back control of our borders and do it sensibly. And I think that’s quite wrong the way it’s been done ...

I think there are Remain camp supporters out there who are using this tragic death to try to give the impression that this isolated, horrific incident is somehow linked to arguments that have been made by myself, or Michael Gove or anybody else in this campaign. And frankly that is wrong.

 

[Uzzy]

Just a question - I think phisheep or others more versed in the intricacies of the legal side, heard few brokers saying Scotland's laws, EU takes primacy not Westminster so there is an issue which forces a referendum....is that true? Some exiters think scots could be forced to stay with UK, but apparently this prevents that binding.

Westminster has control over constitutional issues. So the Scots would have to unilaterally declare independence, which would be a horrific mess.

Surely they have the good sense to delay those figures by at least 24 hours?

From what I can see, the ONS have released the figures on the same day every year for at least the past three years, and probably beyond that. So moving them would be the odder thing.

But yeah, like I said, it'll make for some entertaining headlines on polling day.

 

[Hasney]

I dont feel like this BTW, but I can see it coming a mile off by what farage has said

They are going to say they lost because of Jo Cox murder

Good for that cunt. He can say it all he likes and every time he says it, maybe he'll realise that saying that bullshit will cause him to lose even more support.

Maybe he'll go on another holiday and resign and come back again. Drum up his own little media circus again.

 

[cabot]

I'm curious of the turnout for this, obviously the most recent example of this we have is the Indyref, which was a rather amazing 84.6%

I'm pretty sure the numbers here will not be close to that.

 

[danowat]

Our local paper did a poll

 

[Undead]

I just don't see it being close come Thursday, so many people will get cold feet and the polls will be shown to have been a joke again.

£10 bet now gets you £2.20 for remain and £30 for leave.

I will be shocked if leave gets more than 45% of the vote

 

[King_Moc]

Our local paper did a poll

Yep, that's Norfolk.

 

[Tak3n]

Yep, that's Norfolk.

I live in Norfolk to be fair, I expect all of the East coast to be leave

 

[phisheep]

Just a question - I think phisheep or others more versed in the intricacies of the legal side, heard few brokers saying Scotland's laws, EU takes primacy not Westminster so there is an issue which forces a referendum....is that true? Some exiters think scots could be forced to stay with UK, but apparently this prevents that binding.

Not true. Well, it is a bit complicated, but it is not true in the way that it sounds.

Scotland has a separate legal system to England-and-Wales (as also does Northern Ireland) and the Scottish courts are largely independent of the English ones - though I think some appeals can still go to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.

But Scotland's statute law, except for devolved matters - and then only by convention, is largely the same as England's, and Westminster *can* legislate for anything within Scotland but will generally not do so for devolved matters without the Scottish Parliament's consent.

The possible sticking point is this: it appears that any exit from the EU will require the consent of the Scottish Parliament as a result of the Scotland Act (this is not exactly clear cut, but the consensus is that it will). If as is expected Scotland vote clearly to Remain then a price would be exacted for this consent, whether in the way of guarantees for Scotland or a further referendum or support in negotiating for Scotland to remain in the EU. It's a matter of political clout what happens after that.

 

[Jackpot]

I know this wont be the most popular opinion but if it is a narrow victory, there will only one reason the leave camp will be rolling out for defeat

And we all know what that is...

Don't pussyfoot around it, come out and say it if you have the balls.

 

[Tak3n]

Don't pussyfoot around it, come out and say it if you have the balls.

allready did, the leave campaign will blame (Farage campaign side anyway)

Jo Cox Murder

 

[phisheep]

Don't pussyfoot around it, come out and say it if you have the balls.

He did already.

I dont feel like this BTW, but I can see it coming a mile off by what farage has said

They are going to say they lost because of Jo Cox murder

Farage might say that, and probably will. But I expect the rest of them will have a lot more sense than to stir that particular pot, after all they potentially will have a future stake in the government of the UK and Farage won't.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

how close is the polling so far? Getting nervous that we might actually vote to leave. With the latest nonsense about defections and responses like 'oh we didn't realise she was on our side' I'm fucking sick of the brexit side simply dismissing any information that supports staying, seemingly without needing to show evidence of why it is wrong. So they get all the 'bah, the IMF don't know what they're talking about' soundbites repeated on the news and the news don't even question them on it.

Pretty close. Here's a graph of polls from the wikipedia page. Helpfully updated just this morning!

 

[PJV3]

allready did

Jo Cox Murder

Weren't the polls moving anyway?

The murder only disrupted the momentum and showed a nasty side to the leave campaign when they started whining about the Britain first shouts etc.

 

[King_Moc]

I live in Norfolk to be fair, I expect all of the East coast to be leave

I was in a town in Norfolk not long ago (forgotten the place) that had an actual racist chip shop. They were opposite a Turkish run place, and had a sign in the window saying that they only employ English people. Always had a massive queue, whereas the Turkish one had no one. I got my chips from the Turkish lads.

 

[Tak3n]

Weren't the polls moving anyway?

The murder only disrupted the momentum and showed a nasty side to the leave campaign when they started whining about the Britain first shouts etc.

Dont disagree with that, I always said right from the get go, leave would need a 10 point lead to combat the status quo votes..

Just listening to old Nigel this morning it is clear he sees it as a 'reason'

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I was in a town in Norfolk not long ago (forgotten the place) that had an actual racist chip shop. They were opposite a Turkish run place, and had a sign in the window saying that they only employ English people. Always had a massive queue, whereas the Turkish one had no one. I got my chips from the Turkish lads.

Well that's just sensible. No queue innit.

 

[danowat]

I was in a town in Norfolk not long ago (forgotten the place) that had an actual racist chip shop. They were opposite a Turkish run place, and had a sign in the window saying that they only employ English people. Always had a massive queue, whereas the Turkish one had no one. I got my chips from the Turkish lads.

Shame you can't remember, I'd be interested to know where that was.