No, I'm pretty sure they see it exactly like that. They really are afraid of the world ending stuff and see liberals as hippies in a circle.
The Democratic National Convention OT |2016|: The One With the Policy
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No, I'm pretty sure they see it exactly like that. They really are afraid of the world ending stuff and see liberals as hippies in a circle.
It's certainly better to be willing to change than to be completely intransigent even in the face of contrary facts. However, it's even better for a leader to have foresight so he or she doesn't have to bungle through countless errors to arrive at the correct positions.
Even then it's not 100% clear that HRC learns from her mistakes because after supporting the Iraq war she went on to support regime change in Honduras and Libya ("We came, we saw, he [Qaddafi] died" *cackles). The latter has continued to have negative effects on the region just as the power vacuum left by Saddam's removal did.
Furthermore, one sometimes wonders whether she changed her positions or she was dishonest about them from the outset. For example, during her candidacy for president in 2008, she opposed a trade deal with Colombia.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/09/nation/na-penn9
Yet emails released as part of a foia request showed that she actively lobbied for the deal as secretary of state.
[One has to wonder if the possibility of hiding such embarassments was one motive for the private email server.]
http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clin...ree-trade-agreement-latest-email-dump-2326068
It really does beg the question, "Is she principled or will she just say anything that will help her politically"?
My point here is not that Trump is a great candidate for president but that HRC is also compromised. Trump's charge of "crooked Hillary" is rooted in some truth. Heck, she's been investigated for national security breaches as Secretary of State while running for president! It is entirely possible that people who usually vote democratic will not vote for her thereby collaterally helping Trump.
The 90s was a great decade for a number of things, but not for politics. Clinton and the GOP were both shitshows.
Guy complained before that the democrats didn't apologize for Jim Crow or slavery in the platform. He's constantly saying that the Republicans don't have to disavow the KKK because they are a leftist organization. He's not up there as a conservative or a republican, he's up there as a "Trump supporter", and these are the idiotic things that come out of Trump supporters' mouths.
Not sure where Ana Navarro was today. She is a republican but is actually sane.
Here you go
https://mediamatters.org/video/2016...-wing-benghazi-attacks-against-clinton/211891
Edit... Way late
Y'know what I hear a lot? They fear their daughters dating non-white men and their sons "turning" gay.
Watch Bill Clinton's Full Speech #DNCinPHL #DemsInPhilly
https://youtu.be/eCRqoUu9-cE
https://youtu.be/eCRqoUu9-cE
I think this current panel on MSNBC liked it at its base; they seem to be analyzing the gender-reversal aspect of this and acknowledging that this might throw some people off.
Maddow.. I can't explain.
I remember that. He's shameless. He's one of those morons who gleefully pretend the policies and constituencies of the Republican and Democratic parties have never changed.
*Shrug* that's how I took it too, but he's not the only negative reaction from Muslims I've seen (my favorite being "I was fucking born here asshole.") I can see where they are coming from but don't agree. I'm not a Muslim though. :/
Watched MSNBC for a minute about a half hour ago after his speech. She went in on Clinton's speech and it seemd like a jezebel hit piece in real life. Turned that shit off. Seemed contrarian to be contrarian.
Cnn was split between meh and awesome.
I know it's anecdotal but I can totally believe that to largely be true sadly
IceBringer
Banned
That was great. Begala was so sick of his shit
Lord Frieza
Member
I don't even see where they're coming from really.
Haha. Touché.
Because Fox is going for the angle that Bill sold Hillary better than she does.
Was coming to post about this. I really hate this attitude because to me these are clearly people look to nitpick and tear apart anything they think us anti them.
I'm Muslim and I heard it in context and it made perfect sense. Now my Muslim feeds are blowing up about how gee thanks Bill for letting us stay or how Muslims are only mentioned in relation to terrorism.
Nevermind that point by point he was drawing a stark contrast between Trump and his words compared to Hillary. What you think he was going to bring up Muslims in relation to our great falafel or samosas?
These are the same people who don't like the Clintons to begin with, claim they won't vote, and are just waiting to "told you so". They see everything how right wing people complaining of a liberal agenda all the time see the world.
When you're secretary of state, or work for the administration at all, what you think isn't all that important. Your job is to make the president's vision a reality. Have you never disagreed with your boss on something but did what you needed to anyway? So this complaint seems, frankly, dumb.
I guess if you take it out of the context of our entire political landscape it sounds bad but when the other sides entire platform is "we don't want you here", this is pretty clearly just a response to that
Umm this is sooo amazing.
Exactly. But again this is the crowd that is most likely Bernie supporters who don't like HRC or her husband to begin with.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A few things:
1) She supported TPP in its form when she was still Secretary of State. She's been out of that office for years, and the TPP has changed substantially since then. She obviously wants to review it more, and perhaps change it substantially, before it's ever implemented.
2) Obviously she voted for the Iraq war. Just like almost everyone except Sanders. Good on Sanders. But the fact that she (and everyone else) was completely misled by our Intelligence organizations is not an unimportant point. It was reprehensible, and not because she voted for it.
3) She has never been "against" a $15/hour minimum wage. She wanted to start with $12 - higher in some states with higher standards of living - and carefully roll in increased minimum wages as appropriate, pragmatically. Just like everything she's accomplished - she wanted to be pragmatic. And now, thanks to Sanders' support, she thinks $15 might be more attainable.
4) You need to read up about how corporate campaign contributions work. It's not like Citigroup went and outright donated $900,000 to her campaign. Citigroup's individual employees donated that money. And they donate roughly equal amounts of money to Republican candidates. Because individual employees have individual opinions and minds and choose to donate on their own volition.
5) Simply saying "Hillary is against Glass Steagall" is a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. As always, the story is more nuanced that that.
6) Yes, Hillary worked with Republicans. Specifically campaigning for Barry Goldwater. When she was 17-fucking-years-old. Don't pretend like you didn't have some stupid politica views when you were 17. Trying to undermine her compared to Bernie for this is just fucking ridiculous. Especially considering the fact that Bernie isn't even a Democrat
7) OH MY GOD GOVERNOR CLINTON KEPT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG??? 30 fucking years ago Do you realize how regressive the entire United States was 30 years ago?
"From the Huffington Post" is meaningless year. You're repeating a ridiculous, sensationalist blog post by an uninformed Bernie supporter and representing literally everything wrong with Bernie's movement - no nuance, no understanding of pragmatism, and no god damned fucking respect for her being one of the most genuinely accomplished liberal politicians to ever serve the United States.
So awesome.
Lord Frieza
Member
Jeffrey Lord, man. Even if that's just a straight up persona he's playing to pander, motherfucker should be ashamed of himself and the shit he says.
I'd tell you if I was around to watch it.
For whatever it's worth, the specific dude I tweeted hates Clinton and also passionately encourages people to vote for her.
So some people can compartmentalize at least.
These are certainly examples of people actively looking for an excuse to get angry at the Clintons because they already hate them. He called Hillary a "contemptible monster" yesterday. At least he seems to understand the danger of Trump and will suck it up when it comes to voting.
When you see the people finding a single line in each of the big speeches at the DNC to flip out over by ignoring all the context, you know what you're dealing with.
This would hold more water if there weren't questions about the genuineness of her opposition to the deals back in 2008.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/09/nation/na-penn9
Clearly, she was surrounded by people who supported the deals in 2008 when she was supposedly against it. Then, according to you, she merely did Obama's bidding as Secretary of State, a job which she accepted knowing Obama's positions.
Sorry. If I were on a jury tasked with determining the credibility of her 2008 pronouncements I'd conclude she misrepresented her true position.
googleplex
Member
One thing I kept hearing throughout this primary season from Bernie supporters was:
" I just can't understand why anyone would be excited to vote for Hillary."
After hearing Bill's speech I finally hope Bernie supporters understand that those of us who actually followed Hillary's career and not just meme's on Reddit. Now understand why we were and still are excited to support her.
" I just can't understand why anyone would be excited to vote for Hillary."
After hearing Bill's speech I finally hope Bernie supporters understand that those of us who actually followed Hillary's career and not just meme's on Reddit. Now understand why we were and still are excited to support her.
TestOfTide
Banned
Really Diffuse? That's the route you want to go? "Well, sure her actions were great but what was Hillary secretly thinking at the time?"
No one gives a shit what a politician is secretly thinking. They care about what a politician says and, more importantly, what a politician does.
Hillary may have made some mistakes in what she has said, but she has been consistently great at what she does.
No one gives a shit what a politician is secretly thinking. They care about what a politician says and, more importantly, what a politician does.
Hillary may have made some mistakes in what she has said, but she has been consistently great at what she does.
QuantumZebra
Member
This lady deserves all the cookies and cabinet positions
Sir Alemeth
Member
Tonight was amazing!!
Tomorrow and Thursday will only get better!
Trump is done!! So happy right now!!
Tomorrow and Thursday will only get better!
Trump is done!! So happy right now!!
What she said was the she did not support the Colombian trade deal.
What she did as Secretary of State was lobby for said deal.
I don't care what she was "secretly thinking".
Someone suggested that she was merely being Obama's yeswoman so I pointed out that there were questions about the genuineness of her opposition back in 2008 and, regardless of how one wishes to spin it, she did support the deal later.
VendettaRed07
Member
The glass shatter to reveal big boss Hillary. I couldn't even believe they actually did that.
That was her job. She worked for Obama and he wanted it done. That's how working for someone else works. You can disagree, and tell them so in private, but in public you shut up and do the job.
You're basically pretending to know exactly what she was thinking at the time.
I wanna see this with sound
A job she willingly accepted knowing it would involve departure from her "clear and firm" positions?
Still unprincipled.
BlastProcessing
Member
Have you had a job before?
Well yeah, sometimes you can accept a job knowing your positions aren't 100% in sync with your boss, that's called pragmatism. Thank god you're not on that jury then.
Have you never had a job before?
That is just absurd.
Yes, she was surrounded by her husband, and her chief adviser had some business dealings with the nation means that she secretly supports the agreement. Good god, should she divorce her husband and get rid of every staffer who doesnt agree with 100% of what she thinks?
And are you seriously expecting people not to work in the government if they don't agree with 100% of what their boss wants? How the hell would government function if that was the case? Clinton obviously thought she could do some good and agreed with Obama on the vast majority of issues. As for the rest, reasonable people can disagree, but she did her job like a professional and carried it out.
TestOfTide
Banned
Your right, she should have just resigned then and there to defy Obama instead of supporting the President who put her in office.
Fuck any other potential to accomplish things as Secretary of State. If Obama wanted her to support this one trade deal then she should have just refused to do her job.
whyamihere
Banned
I don't think you understand how this actually works, and your willful ignorance on the matter isn't making things any better.
Foreign policy needs to speak with ONCE VOICE. That's the only way in which American foreign policy can work. Public disagreements between POTUS and the Secretary of State should not happen, even if they disagree in public, because it undermines American missions abroad.
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