Support NeoGAF

[gofreak]

But by the same logic, didn't they get out of the console business with the Wii

Arguably, yeah. Arguably the home console strategy has for ages now been setting up for a day where they merge into the handheld.

But while they were still releasing distinct home units, there could always be that hope of a shift in strategy. Now? Well, let's see what this dock does or doesn't do.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Did we consider this to be a home console, or a hybrid home console?

Well, I didn't.

If the dock does something substantial in terms of boosting the machine's power, then I'll accept it as a hybrid. If not I think it is just a slightly qualified retreat from the home space.

No, we didn't, for the reasoning others have stated.

In these times of overlapping functionality, you could make the argument that everything is a hybrid of some sort, but the clearest indication is form factor - has it been designed with the purpose of combining, in a solitary form, two previously separate devices? The PSP wasn't; by the sounds of it, the NX will be.

That it may not transform in power terms when it sits in a dock that places it as a home console, to be used with the bundled and detachable controllers, is a different issue.

I agree to some extent though, it's a partial retreat from the home space, or perhaps it'd be more charitable to call it a consolidation. A conservative home console and a progressive handheld in one unified form plays to Nintendo's strengths in both fields.

 

[gutter_trash]

It would be cool if they did this and had a relatively painless transfer solution for swapping in and out games stored on the portable storage.

this is the many factor that keeps me on the fence and hesitant at early adoption.

I'm leaning more towards a full home console experience with an HDD that I can just buy my games digitally without leaving home

 

[Graphics Horse]

will the dock have an HDD for people who want to buy games digitally?

There are several patent applications that cover such a device, one is the much talked about SCD patent, which covers a case for a networked storage solution with not necessarily any extra processing power being involved. There is another for a gaming apparatus without an optical disc drive which is designed to download games & connect to other machines. So I'm expecting something like that when we're talking about pretty big 32GB game sizes, but it could be an optional extra rather than bundled with each system.

 

[Darryl]

I guess if you were hoping for a modern, powerful Nintendo console, it matters. It's a bit sad to me if the hope of that is gone for good. What can I say.

I mean I think given Nintendo's position, this move makes total sense. They've been struggling to support both pillars well. They've some time ago abandoned many of the advantages a home unit can confer. Why not consolidate behind the stronger denominator here?

But it's a pretty momentous, and I guess for some of us, pretty disappointing move. Insisting this is still a home-unit play as much as a portable one feels like a 'emperor's new console' glossing-over of what's really going on.

You really stretched and skewed to find a roundabout way of saying "it's not strong enough for me"

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Arguably, yeah. Arguably the home console strategy has for ages now been setting up for a day where they merge into the handheld.

But while they were still releasing distinct home units, there could always be that hope of a shift in strategy. Now? Well, let's see what this dock does or doesn't do.

It doesn't do anything, I just don't understand why an ideological stance on whether or not it is a hybrid matters to anyone. It is what it is. Having an emotional response to a handheld absorbing the console line and performing functionally the same baffles me.

 

[Plinko]

You can't just promise us something that wasn't mentioned anywhere. There are a million patents that never go through. C'mon. And you're telling us to look to the N64 for confirmation, really? :/

I'm not "promising" anything. Most of my posts start with, "...if the SCD patent is true" or stating that if it comes to fruition. All I'm saying is that people in here are jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story. I can almost guarantee we don't know everything about this system from that leak. Look at the reports--nobody is even sure what the TV connection/dock is. I'm not saying it's used to boost power to the system, I'm just pointing out that people don't even know what it does yet. Nobody knows the finer details yet and probably won't until the official reveal. If they announce at the reveal that this thing is never going to be able to be upgraded, by all means--complain away.

As for the future, I just think it makes sense to utilize that system of upgrades. It also helps Nintendo when it comes to R&D costs--by sticking with the same console and just upgrading power, more resources can be used for game development, etc. It makes sense for Nintendo to go this route. Is it guaranteed? No. I never said it was. But it seems like the way for them to go.

 

[Father_Brain]

No actually I didn't.

...then why are you treating a nine-month-old story, written at a point when far fewer sources accessible to Mochizuki would have been fully aware of the nature of the NX hardware, as though it undermines the hybrid report that's been corroborated by Mochizuki himself?

Reporting about upcoming hardware invariably gets more accurate, not less, as the system approaches its official reveal and launch. I don't follow the logic here.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Wasnt there a rumor of an extra pro controller or something? I dont see it anymore

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

To be honest, that extract from MCV's article seems to be (apparently) a bit in contrast with what Emily, OsirisBlack and Shocking Alberto reported about its power / its possibility of getting PS4/One ports, alongisde all the different analysis already layed out here on GAF. Also, it's based on someone else's impression, not a precise specs analysis, so I'm not completely convinced by it.

It's a handheld device powered by a Tegra chip. Even in an ideal world where Nintendo throw an X2 in there, the idea of PS4/XB1 ports is a pipe dream, save for the less hardware intensive Japanese games and indies. Forget AAA western games.

 

[AmyS]

Not to say it isn't more powerful but you gotta compare apples to apples. YOu're quoting specs from the Android TV device which is plugged into a wall. Not from a handheld/tablet.

Plus the Nvidia specs are "peak" GFlops. It's still going to be quite a bit more powerful than a 3ds, but not this 100x more powerful.

I'm also thinking about the Google Pixel C tablet which also uses Tegra X1. It's not clocked as high as it is in Nvidia's Shield TV micro console. Lets say in handheld mode the Tegra X1 gets 256gf and in console mode it gets 512gf.
256gf is still 25x 3DS and 10x Vita, and while Nvidia Tegra X1 gf are different than either PiCA 200 and PowerVR SGX543(MP4+), Tegra X1's Maxwell architecture no doubt does a lot more and better since its a much newer & better architecture. So iwhile t's fair to say one cannot compare apples to oranges, the PICA200 and PowerVR flops are also "peak" the Tegra X1 is vastly more powerful than either.

Not even taking into account a customized X1 for Nintendo, or the possibility of Tegra X2.

 

[bs135]

It doesn't do anything, I just don't understand why an ideological stance on whether or not it is a hybrid matters to anyone. It is what it is. Having an emotional response to a handheld absorbing the console line and performing functionally the same baffles me.

I don't agree that it will perform functionally the same. The games released for the NX as it is will be of a current handheld scale rather than of a current console scale.

 

[gofreak]

You really stretched and skewed to find a roundabout way of saying "it's not strong enough for me"

As a handheld it sounds like it should be quite strong.

As a home console? No.

But it's not even a home console, or trying to be. That's my point. A TV out and detachable controllers feels fairly token to me.

The semantics of what is or isn't a proper 'hybrid' aside, if the dock brings the advantages of a home console then I'll be pleased as punch.

 

[TLZ]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-begins-distributing-software-kit-for-new-nx-platform-1444996588.

Original article but here is the thing. Most people backed them and said their "sources" were saying the same thing. I'm just going to wait and stay optimistic. September is not that far away.

Apparently, you missed that the very same WSJ reporter behind that story reported yesterday that NX is a hybrid.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-swings-to-loss-1469604309

Nice. So from the same 'sources', we go from a device playing on highest end pcs, to a portable playing better than last gen stuff.

Great!

 

[Plinko]

It's a handheld device powered by a Tegra chip. Even in an ideal world where Nintendo throw an X2 in there, the idea of PS4/XB1 ports is a pipe dream, save for the less hardware intensive Japanese games and indies. Forget AAA western games.

Which is why I'm so puzzled by OsirisBlack's comments, as well as LCGeek's CPU statement. Either plans changed, they have bad info, or there's something else to this that hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Rodin]

Which is why I'm so puzzled by OsirisBlack's comments, as well as LCGeek's CPU statement.

Yeah, that's what i was thinking as well. There's no way a handheld SoC has more CPU power than Xbox One and is able to handle ports without issues, so there must be something going on with the dock (they figured a way to enhance cooling system and the chip at full speed is close to One? The dock has additional power?). Either that or something is missing.

Digital Foundry's article about the hardware being super far from the current gen consoles certainly doesn't help perception anyway.

 

[Plinko]

Yeah, that's what i was thinking as well. There's no way a handheld SoC has more CPU power than Xbox One and is able to handle ports without issues, so there must be something going on with the dock. Or something is missing. Digital Foundry's article about the hardware being super far from the current gen consoles certainly doesn't help perception.

Is it possible the leaks have been all about the base system, and a more powerful console addition will come out later? Weren't initial rumors that the handheld would actually come first, followed by a console portion months later?

 

[drac96]

Man, I am getting so excited for the NX. I really hope it's region free.

 

[Father_Brain]

Nice. So from the same 'sources', we go from a device playing on highest end pcs, to a portable playing better than last gen stuff.

Great!

Tegra X1 is powerful enough to run a decent-looking version of the UE4 Elemental demo, so I don't see it as *that* implausible that a source could have seen some NX tech demos last fall and come away with that conclusion.

I mean, I recall at least one report from 2010 that claimed 3DS would approach PS3/360 in power, seemingly based on nothing other than that it supported some modern shader effects.

 

[TheCongressman1]

"But it can connect to a tv"

Doesn't count!

That's some weird stuff man.

Some people don't like the idea of something that is designed with the limitations of a handheld also being the home console. How is that some weird stuff?

If the dock isn't doing anything special, it might as well just be called a handheld that can connect to your tv if you want.

We'll see soon hopefully.

 

[TLZ]

I'm not "promising" anything. Most of my posts start with, "...if the SCD patent is true" or stating that if it comes to fruition. All I'm saying is that people in here are jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story. I can almost guarantee we don't know everything about this system from that leak. Look at the reports--nobody is even sure what the TV connection/dock is. I'm not saying it's used to boost power to the system, I'm just pointing out that people don't even know what it does yet. Nobody knows the finer details yet and probably won't until the official reveal. If they announce at the reveal that this thing is never going to be able to be upgraded, by all means--complain away.

As for the future, I just think it makes sense to utilize that system of upgrades. It also helps Nintendo when it comes to R&D costs--by sticking with the same console and just upgrading power, more resources can be used for game development, etc. It makes sense for Nintendo to go this route. Is it guaranteed? No. I never said it was. But it seems like the way for them to go.

Which is why I'm so puzzled by OsirisBlack's comments, as well as LCGeek's CPU statement. Either plans changed, they have bad info, or there's something else to this that hasn't been revealed yet.

Yeah, that's what i was thinking as well. There's no way a handheld SoC has more CPU power than Xbox One and is able to handle ports without issues, so there must be something going on with the dock (they figured a way to enhance cooling system and the chip at full speed is close to One? The dock has additional power?). Either that or something is missing.

Digital Foundry's article about the hardware being super far from the current gen consoles certainly doesn't help perception anyway.

It's all too confusing now.



Nothing to do but wait for more solid info.

 

[oti]

It's all too confusing now.



Nothing to do but wait for more solid info.

No. You either hate it or love it. Decide NOW!

 

[borborygmus]

One of the things I'm most worried about is the ergonomics, especially since the handheld form factor seems to be central to the whole thing. They really dropped the ball in that area for 3DS and Wii U's Gamepad.

 

[Hey_Blinkin]

Is a game with the scale of Xenoblade X possible on a cart? I'm not not sure what the limitations are on them. I love the series so much. Really want it to continue.

 

[Rodin]

Is it possible the leaks have been all about the base system, and a more powerful console addition will come out later? Weren't initial rumors that the handheld would actually come first, followed by a console portion months later?

This is the original quote from WSJ (which now jumped on the hybrid bandwagon):

The exact shape of the NX hardware isn’t yet clear. People familiar with the development plans said Nintendo would likely include both a console and at least one mobile unit that could either be used in conjunction with the console or taken on the road for separate use. They also said Nintendo would aim to put industry-leading chips in the NX devices, after criticism that the Wii U’s capabilities didn’t match those of competitors.

which reinforced our teories about the family of systems that share base architecture and OS. I don't know what to think at this point, but i really hope there's something more to the story because at the moment i absolutely dislike the machine digital foundry presented in their article. I didn't know how i felt about it, but i realized that the only way i'm buying this thing is if they really knock it out of the park with the balance of price, screen, hardware, battery, services and line up. Which is incredibly hard to do. I hope they manage to do that though.

Is a game with the scale of Xenoblade X possible on a cart? I'm not not sure what the limitations are on them. I love the series so much. Really want it to continue.

X is 22GB iirc, Nintendo's suggested gamecard for the NX is 32GB.

 

[TLZ]

No. You either hate it or love it. Decide NOW!

Being the gaming muppet that I am, I'll end up buying anyway.

 

[Nozem]

I don't see how the NX can both have a small form factor for easy portability, and have detachable controllers. The thing must either be massive (for a portable), or the controllers are unergonomic as fuck. The mockups kind of prove my point.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I don't see how the NX can both have a small form factor for easy portability, and have detachable controllers. The thing must either be massive (for a portable), or the controllers are unergonomic as fuck. The mockups kind of prove my point.

If I had to bet, I would go with the latter option. I say this as someone who can't play 3DS without the Circle Pad Pro due to how terrible that thing is to hold.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't see how the NX can both have a small form factor for easy portability, and have detachable controllers. The thing must either be massive (for a portable), or the controllers are unergonomic as fuck. The mockups kind of prove my point.

I doubt it will be that small
But the 2DS was 5 inches tall
You might fit it in large pockets
If you take the sides out from their sockets

 

[Steph_E.]

I hope they will power up marketing or people will believe this to be a mere GamePad for the Wii...

Or: how marvellous, I can now buy a second gamepad for my Wii U !!

Just wait and see them calling it the Wii-R

Or the Wii-URD (obviously pronounced weird)

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I'm talking about the edges of the side that clips into the screen.

They may clip together (if bigger than the mockup), or to a separate middle piece with home, start/select buttons etc., to make a pretty traditional pad for playing on the TV.

 

[the androgyne]

From the summary of the SCD Patent by Rösti:

For instance, multiple supplemental devices may be daisy-chained to one another and/or the game console may be physically coupled or wirelessly coupled to other supplemental computing devices.

Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.

Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users.

Eurogamer said

We've heard the screen is bookended by two controller sections on either side, which can be attached or detached as required

A base unit, or dock station, is used to connect the brain of the NX - within the controller - to display on your TV.

So the screen, if not the "brain" ... is a paperweight without the controller sections?
If the controller sections detach ... then what is the console; where do the cartridges go? The screen or the controller sections...

The screen. Screen can play games by itself, controller sections can't. Controller pieces themselves are SCDs, daisy chain with other controllers in local multiplayer for increased performance.

At home, the SCDs in the controllers daisy chain with the dock for more performance.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Falco is playing the NX. Thats all im gonna say. It looks just like the nvidia shield tablet and controller anyway.

Sorry this 2 controller shit just sound dumb.
Yall wrong for these mockups and Eurogamer wrong too.

 

[Graphics Horse]

From the summary of the SCD Patent by Rösti:



Eurogamer said



So the screen, if not the "brain" ... is a paperweight without the controller sections?
If the controller sections detach ... then what is the console; where do the cartridges go? The screen or the controller sections...

The screen. Screen can play games by itself, controller sections can't. Controller pieces themselves are SCDs, daisy chain with other controllers in local multiplayer for increased performance.

At home, the SCDs in the controllers daisy chain with the dock for more performance.

Or Eurogamer slipped up.
Which if the controllers are the tiny things being drawn in the example, is probably the case.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Falco is playing the NX. Thats all im gonna say. It looks just like the nvidia shield tablet and controller anyway.

Sorry this 2 controller shit just sound dumb.
Yall wrong for these mockups and Eurogamer wrong too.

NX leak confirmed:

 

[DESTROYA]

I've been thinking of other form factors that might work with detachable controllers, anyone think it could be like a clamshell design sort of like a mini laptop or detachable 2-1,bottom portion you can connect the 2 individual controllers with the top part is obviously the screen.
Every mock up I've seen looks uncomfortable to hold, just a idea floating around in my head.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't agree that it will perform functionally the same. The games released for the NX as it is will be of a current handheld scale rather than of a current console scale.

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

What Hyrule Warriors Legends? I think that could be an excellent example of scaling down a console game for handheld. Though NX would obviously need to handle that automatically rather than having a new version just for the handheld form factor.

 

[casey_contra]

I was worried about the comfort of a detachable controller, but then I looked at my GBA Micro, and when placed longways against the end of a N3DSXL it goes just about a 1/3 inch past the edge. I find the GBA Micro quite confortable.

 

[casey_contra]

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

Sarcasm, right?

The 3D Zelda remakes and XC3D were pretty well received, especially the former.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

NX leak confirmed:

Its true, I want to bet money on this shit!

 

[Russ T]

hey guys i'm 100% positive shocking alberto is being sarcastic

 

[Graphics Horse]

I was referring to Sharp's free-form displays costing more to manufacture. If they're going to use those, a display that can be molded into all sorts of shapes and sizes, why would they make it a standard size and aspect ratio?

Sorry if that was unclear.

Oh right, yeah we'll have to see if that report was true, but I think the shaped screens might just be cut from a larger rectangle anyway. The IGZO screen tech used in these screens is usually rectangular for now, it just make funny shapes easier.

Falco is playing the NX. Thats all im gonna say. It looks just like the nvidia shield tablet and controller anyway.

Sorry this 2 controller shit just sound dumb.
Yall wrong for these mockups and Eurogamer wrong too.

I'd love for that to be true (well not exactly like the SFZ model) but I need to hear it from a well respected inside source like tenkay23

 

[Enduin]

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

 

[BratmanDu]

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

I doubt very much I'd have had the time or inclination to play Xenoblade Chronicles3D if I couldn't play it on the train/plane/wherever.

If NX let's me play XCX on the go - I'm in.

 

[bs135]

Yeah I can't imagine we'll be seeing games like Xenoblade or Zelda on handhelds.

Gimped versions of what they would be on a proper home console is exactly what you will get on the NX. Which is my main point of contention.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Gimped versions of what they would be on a proper home console is exactly what you will get on the NX. Which is my main point of contention.

What data are you using for this point

 

[Kickz]

Straight up: I don't want to have to feel like I'm paying for a display/screen that I'll never use. That was a big reason why I felt the Wii U was a poor value and I ended up selling mine the moment I didn't see any games I was interested in on the horizon. I just want to play on my TV and have no interest in portability.

Agreed, I am hoping it comes in different skews based on your play style. IE portable skew and console skew which has more power

 

[Taigerr]

One of the things I'm most worried about is the ergonomics, especially since the handheld form factor seems to be central to the whole thing....

Slate design is ok but man those controllers in 2 player mode, they are gonna be tiny... unless its one chunk of a handheld..

 

[Shiggy]

What data are you using for this point

It's "dat feeling".