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[Toadthemushroom]

Apple September 7th keynote seems confirmed

Welp.

This wouldn't be the first time Apple holds an event that coincides with a games industry platform holder. In the past its events have clashed several times with Microsoft's own E3 press conferences, and they even had a keynote at the same time Satoru Iwata was advising an audience at GDC about protecting the importance of protecting the value of video games and craftsmanship. They also launched the iPad 2 on the same day as the 3DS launched in Europe, which effectively killed off mainstream media coverage of Nintendo's then-new handheld at the time.

Unlike some of those previous events, I don't think an Apple clash would be intentional this time around, as this is pretty much the best day they can hold the event relative to new product launches. But it will be a big event -- Apple's apparently only wanting to do one big event a year rather than two separate events in the last four months of the year.

 

[Inuhanyou]

If the leaked specs are true the power isn't there to go up to 4K for "AAA" games. Increasing the frame rate of the base PS4 game is the easiest thing to do, rather than trying to go from the equivalent of medium to high PC settings for a fraction of the PS4 user base; more often than not publishers will take the path of least resistance. If frame rate wasn't a big deal Sony wouldn't be touting it as the top benefit for Neo modes.

I don't think your understand.

Increased and more stable framerates would be a selling point by default. That doesn't mean your getting 60fps by default on NEO

FPS priority usually resides on the CPU side. NEO is using upclocked Jaguars, and thus will not be able to hit 60fps for a PS4 game that targets 30fps, because the difference in CPU speed isn't big enough.

GPU side, it is a different story, and so that will show in resolution, IQ, and other things.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

The PS3 can achieve this if they make it mandated. As it is, they just leave it to the developers as it should be.

You can only buy games that are 1080/60fps if you like though, but Sony isn't going to mandate it. It's not a magical power formula. Some developers would prefer to add more details.

This doesn't make any sense. Any game can aim for 1080p/60fps if it wants, regardless of the tech, but it's up to the developer where the priorities should lie with what it is they're creating. Some devs push for graphical fidelity, others for a rock-steady 60 frames per second, and obviously the genre of the game heavily influences that decision. Next gen the consoles will be even more powerful, and you can better your ass the standard will still be 30fps.

See above. That's not how it works. You'll want to be directing your anger at the development community rather than at the hardware itself.

t
framerate is ALWAYS a developer choice, rather than a hardware issue...the PS3 could have run every game in its library at 60fps...same with the PS2, and PS before it...

with 100% confidence i will say that not every Neo game will run at 60fps...plenty of devs will up resolution, or effects, or textures, etc and keep games at 30fps...

Obviously any hardware can achieve 60fps and devs choose what they settle on in terms of performance, but the PS4 struggles with games that aren't exactly mind blowing graphically/technically. It's underpowered for the current gaming landscape.

The Neo needs to allow devs to make the games as they are now without the technical sacrifices.

 

[wapplew]

Apple September 7th keynote seems confirmed

Welp.

Apple x PLAYSTATION, something something iphone official controller, believe.

 

[DieH@rd]

"Games that still sell well"...

Hopefully those will not be the only ones. Sony 1st/2nd party need to make more effort than the rest. I would like for Neo not only to be console that plays new games better, but that it gives older customers more reasons to upgrade.

If they release Neo and DON'T fix Until Dawn performance...

 

[Inuhanyou]

Obviously any hardware can achieve 60fps and devs choose what they settle on in terms of performance, but the PS4 struggles with games that aren't exactly mind blowing graphically/technically. It's underpowered for the current gaming landscape.

The Neo needs to allow devs to make the games as they are now without the technical sacrifices.

That's the nature of consoles. Limited hardware and technical sacrifices to achieve a decent final result. Doom looks great at 60fps and 1080p on PS4 for example, because they prioritized the corridor combat DOOM is known for without too many open spaces.

If you want more than that, PC gaming is right around the corner.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

That's the nature of consoles. Limited hardware and technical sacrifices to achieve a decent final result. Doom looks great at 60fps and 1080p on PS4 for example, because they prioritized the corridor combat DOOM is known for without too many open spaces.

If you want more than that, PC gaming is right around the corner.

I have a PC already, which is why I'd like to see much stronger console hardware that allows for better performance.

Admittedly, I'm only really interested in exclusives now, which Sony are pretty good with (even so, it would have been great to have Bloodborne, U4, etc at 60fps)

 

[Toni]

Talking about price...

I just don't see Sony pricing Neo higher than $399. If they want some reasonable demand for it, they will not price it above that.

Sonething tells me they will have a 2TB and/or a 4TB version and accomodate the price based on that.

I personally would be down for a huge terabyte version so I wont have to worry about space until next gen.

 

[EmiPrime]

I don't think your understand.

Increased and more stable framerates would be a selling point by default. That doesn't mean your getting 60fps by default on NEO

FPS priority usually resides on the CPU side. NEO is using upclocked Jaguars, and thus will not be able to hit 60fps for a PS4 game that targets 30fps, because the difference in CPU speed isn't big enough.

GPU side, it is a different story, and so that will show in resolution, IQ, and other things.

No I understand well enough. Whether the CPU or the GPU is the bottleneck depends on the game.

We'll see a month from now as what Sony choose to demo will set the tone.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Roll on 7th September so we can actually get to see how this thing will pan out.

I'm still pissed about the whole thing to be honest, but I think that's more because I bought a limited edition console more than anything else.

I can see the argument for it but that's only because of the low bar set with the current spec of the PS4.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I have a PC already, which is why I'd like to see much stronger console hardware that allows for better performance.

Admittedly, I'm only really interested in exclusives now, which Sony are pretty good with (even so, it would have been great to have Bloodborne, U4, etc at 60fps)

NEO is going to allow for far stabler FPS metrics and far better IQ and graphical presets. You should not be expecting automatic 60fps for all games. Its not going to happen.

 

[Metfanant]

The Neo needs to allow devs to make the games as they are now without the technical sacrifices.

There will ALWAYS be technical sacrifices in every game, regardless of hardware...if you choose more eye candy, you sacrifice framerate, if you choose framerate, you sacrifice potential eye candy...

There will always be devs that favor framerate for their games, and there will always be devs that favor pushing the visual envelope to the max...those priorities, will dictate how they use the additional power provided by Neo...and Scorpio next year

 

[farisr]

I for one am very excited to see how long sony sticks to their guns with the whole no exclusive features bit, or what they would even consider features. A certain already released game was supposed to have much more deformation and destruction. Their engine does allow it ps4s power does not. Neo might free up enough resources to activate this feature,would that be allowed?

Based off the documentation, that would be fine. Improving an aspect that already exists on the ps4 is allowed. If there was no destruction or deformation on ps4 at all, they wouldn't be allowed to put it in something like that exclusively for the neo.

Similarly (this was an actual specific example they gave) like if a game on ps4 has 2 player splitscreen, they can put 4 player splitscreen on the neo. But if a game didn't have any sort of splitscreen whatsoever on the ps4, they wouldn't be allowed to put in splitscreen on the neo version even if it's capable of providing 2 player splitscreen at that point.

 

[serversurfer]

Everything on the hardware front has been as silent as the grave. Lots of dev talk about their games and what will and won't or can't be done. Should be a very interesting reveal I for one am very excited to see how long sony sticks to their guns with the whole no exclusive features bit, or what they would even consider features. A certain already released game was supposed to have much more deformation and destruction. Their engine does allow it ps4s power does not. Neo might free up enough resources to activate this feature,would that be allowed?

Also don't expect every old game to be patched you'll only be setting yourselves up to be disappointed. Games that still sell well like GTAV and 1st party games have the best chance of being touched up from what I am hearing.

Makes sense. First parties exist primarily as showpieces, so Sony will put a lot of effort into that, both for the big names and anything they want to call extra attention to. Something like a straight asset bump could even be farmed out to other studios without much worry.

For third parties, they're now looking at an evergreen platform, where they can sell their game more or less indefinitely, given only a possible compatibility update every few years. I suspect that's a prime motivation for the remasters we're seeing now; it's the last port you'll ever need to do, because there's no reason for this ecosystem to go away, so you can get on with making new games instead. Regarding new art, it's a matter of whether the sales boost would cover the production costs, keeping in mind they currently have no option to charge for the art separately, so we're talking strictly about new buyers they entice here. I could see paid art patches in the future though. In the meantime, yeah, stuff like GTA and AssCreed, I'd expect.

 

[Metfanant]

Based off the documentation, that would be fine. Improving an aspect that already exists on the ps4 is allowed. If there was no destruction or deformation on ps4 at all, they wouldn't be allowed to put it in something like that exclusively for the neo.

Similarly (this was an actual specific example they gave) like if a game on ps4 has 2 player splitscreen, they can put 4 player splitscreen on the neo. But if a game didn't have any sort of splitscreen whatsoever on the ps4, they wouldn't be allowed to put in splitscreen on the neo version even if it's capable of providing 2 player splitscreen at that point.

I would think something like destruction or deformation wouldn't really fall under a feature that wouldn't be allowed on Neo...

I always took that clause as adding things like a theater mode, or a Halo forge like feature, or adding co-op campaign...I'm not sure environmental destruction falls into that category

 

[Gitaroo]

Sonething tells me they will have a 2TB and/or a 4TB version and accomodate the price based on that.

I personally would be down for a huge terabyte version so I wont have to worry about space until next gen.

I hope they will at least do a 500gb model and price as low as possible, I rather get my own drive because these consoles manufactuters always pack in with the cheapest garbage slow ass drive they can find.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I would think something like destruction or deformation wouldn't really fall under a feature that wouldn't be allowed on Neo...

I always took that clause as adding things like a theater mode, or a Halo forge like feature, or adding co-op campaign...I'm not sure environmental destruction falls into that category

I'm not sure Sony really needs to clarify what 'is not allowed' it should be obvious as anything non graphics related that is impossible on current PS4.

A PC to PS4 situation would be the same as a NEO to PS4 situation. Hardware is not like last gen where games like BF had to cut out a huge amount of players in multiplayer just to work on the PS3 and 360, the rules should not be too restrictive if its only for a few years, and even then, my guess is most devs are going to be prioritizing PS4 and XB1 to begin with anyway from a game development standpoint, and upporting to these stronger units.

An NEO like unit is not going push game technology forward after all, based on the components involved, it seems like a relatively low cost investment of stronger components for Sony to cover their bases in regards to market options

 

[KingJ2002]

Wow... September is shaping up to be a very very important month for the future of gaming.

PS4 Neo
Possible NX Reveal
Next Gen iOS / macOS device unveil

Destiny: Rise of Iron
Final Fantasy XV

lol

can't wait!

 

[Boke1879]

Damn I was just thinking. Sony most likely does a bundle for Destiny: Rise of Iron. I wonder if they'll also do a soft bundle for FFXV?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Damn I was just thinking. Sony most likely does a bundle for Destiny: Rise of Iron. I wonder if they'll also do a soft bundle for FFXV?

FFXV bundle would push way more units.

 

[Boke1879]

FFXV bundle would push way more units.

You think so. I'm sure it would in Japan. But I just figured no doubt they'd do one with Destiny given their relationship this gen.

 

[farisr]

Was jut browsing through that document again and came across this:

Execution Mode on Original PS4/NEO---
Base Mode:
- Mode when title runs on original Playstation 4 system
- Mode when title without NEO support runs on NEO system (backward-compatibility mode)
- All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system

Sigh... looks like we shouldn't be expecting any sort of performance increases at all on non-patched PS4 games. It looks like it isn't going to be an Xbox One S scenario where the game is able to access the extra power from the upclock.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

You think so. I'm sure it would in Japan. But I just figured no doubt they'd do one with Destiny given their relationship this gen.

How many that care about Destiny don't have PS4S yet? I guess maybe pepole that were on last gen, but that population was extremely low before Bungie dropped support. I think FFXV is a game that a lot of people have been waiting on to jump into current gen.

Plus a bundle for DLC that is even smaller than The Taken King is really not not needed. Push a new game.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Was jut browsing through that document again and came across this:

Execution Mode on Original PS4/NEO---
Base Mode:
- Mode when title runs on original Playstation 4 system
- Mode when title without NEO support runs on NEO system (backward-compatibility mode)
- All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system

Sigh... looks like we shouldn't be expecting any sort of performance increases at all on non-patched PS4 games. It looks like it isn't going to be an Xbox One S scenario where the game is able to access the upclocked power.

We have known games had to patched for improvements.

 

[Conduit]

Wow... September is shaping up to be a very very important month for the future of gaming.

PS4 Neo
Possible NX Reveal
Next Gen iOS / macOS device unveil

Destiny: Rise of Iron
Final Fantasy XV

lol

can't wait!

Neo Destiny bundle. 1080p/60

 

[The God]

Go onto the next generation as usual and forgo iterative consoles? Of course scropio is probably being positioned as a halfway new gen and iterative model,so they dont really need to worry

something tells me that failure in a change this big wouldn't allow them to continue as of nothing happened

 

[DieH@rd]

Was jut browsing through that document again and came across this:

Execution Mode on Original PS4/NEO---
Base Mode:
- Mode when title runs on original Playstation 4 system
- Mode when title without NEO support runs on NEO system (backward-compatibility mode)
- All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system

Sigh... looks like we shouldn't be expecting any sort of performance increases at all on non-patched PS4 games. It looks like it isn't going to be an Xbox One S scenario where the game is able to access the extra power from the upclock.

There is still a chance that clock in Base Mode will be slightly higher. Sony is maybe just describing situation there in broad terms.

 

[farisr]

This was always known.

Not widely, if you go through the topics regarding the neo, even after the document leak, you'll see many people looking forward to the performance increases on non-patched games, especially since the Xbox One S came out.

I mean of course you'd need a patch to let the games access the 18 new compute units in the GPU, but for games with flexible programming (like the ones that improved on the xbox one s), they would've benefited without the developers having to do anything by the gpu and cpu upclock.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I'm like really curious to see what games get patches...I think that's what I'm most curious about haha

 

[molnizzle]

Neo Destiny bundle. 1080p/60

60fps Destiny is all I want from Neo.

Must happen.

Spoiler

PLEASE BUNGIE

 

[onQ123]

Was jut browsing through that document again and came across this:

Execution Mode on Original PS4/NEO---
Base Mode:
- Mode when title runs on original Playstation 4 system
- Mode when title without NEO support runs on NEO system (backward-compatibility mode)
- All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system

Sigh... looks like we shouldn't be expecting any sort of performance increases at all on non-patched PS4 games. It looks like it isn't going to be an Xbox One S scenario where the game is able to access the extra power from the upclock.

I guess you missed the part about that being base mode

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Neo Destiny bundle. 1080p/60

Highly doubtful. I do wonder what kind of effect Neo running competitive multiplayer games at higher resolution with better framerate will have on the community. There is no denying Neo owners will have an advantage in competitive shooters.

 

[farisr]

I guess you missed the part about that being base mode

If you're saying I missed it initially when the document was revealed, I knew about base mode, I just didn't know it would restrict the gpu and cpu clocks down to regular ps4 levels.

 

[GravityInsanity]

How much am I willing to get back If I trade Gamestop my day 1 PS4 which still works to this day?

 

[Chris_Rivera]

With the low-level API's available, why would the CPU severely bottleneck fps?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

How much am I willing to get back If I trade Gamestop my day 1 PS4 which still works to this day?

You can get $240(after fees) if you put it on eBay.

 

[Celcius]

Here's what I'd like in a PS4K:

1. Increased performance: First prioritize 1080p, then 60 fps, then reducing pop up and adding graphics effects.
2. 4K UHD Blu-ray player. and possibly more silent then the chainsaw-level BD drive current PS4's have if possible at all.
3. 4TB internal HDD. If not then at least a 2TB drive lol.
4. Aluminum casing and 4 rubber feet on the bottom.
5. Dualshock 4 where the top black area is aluminum matching the console, and better battery life.
6. Enhanced wi-fi connectivity & speeds.

 

[bitbydeath]

Was jut browsing through that document again and came across this:

Execution Mode on Original PS4/NEO---
Base Mode:
- Mode when title runs on original Playstation 4 system
- Mode when title without NEO support runs on NEO system (backward-compatibility mode)
- All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system

Sigh... looks like we shouldn't be expecting any sort of performance increases at all on non-patched PS4 games. It looks like it isn't going to be an Xbox One S scenario where the game is able to access the extra power from the upclock.

That's to be expected, you'll only see slight differences with HDR inclusion, and possibly 4K enhancement everything else will need to be coded for.

 

[farisr]

That's to be expected, you'll only see slight differences with HDR inclusion, and possibly 4K enhancement everything else will need to be coded for.

The thing is, what I'm getting at is, we won't even see slight differences. They're locking the neo to ps4 spec if the game is unpatched. If this is actually how they're going to be doing the ps4 mode, then we won't be seeing improved framerates/cases like we're seeing on the Xbox One S right now thanks to its upclock.

 

[bitbydeath]

The thing is, what I'm getting at is, we won't even see slight differences. They're locking the neo to ps4 spec if the game is unpatched. If this is actually how they're going to be doing the ps4 mode, then we won't be seeing improved framerates/cases like we're seeing on the Xbox One S right now.

Those are handled by your TV and not PS4, Neo would only enable it. (Except for possible 4K reading enhancements applied to Neo but that would be software).

 

[El_Chino]

Neo Destiny bundle. 1080p/60

60fps won't happen.

 

[GravityInsanity]

You can get $240(after fees) if you put it on eBay.

Never sold on ebay before. I think I'll give it a try.

 

[farisr]

Those are handled by your TV and not PS4, Neo would only enable it. (Except for possible 4K reading enhancements applied to Neo but that would be software).

Sorry I misread your post to mean that there would be slight difference plus the other stuff you specifically mentioned, and hence commented on the slight differences part, thinking you were saying they would be game performance related differences.

 

[paolo11]

Wow... September is shaping up to be a very very important month for the future of gaming.

PS4 Neo
Possible NX Reveal
Next Gen iOS / macOS device unveil

Destiny: Rise of Iron
Final Fantasy XV

lol

can't wait!

Agree. Also it's Persona 5 release on Japan plus TGS 2016.

 

[onQ123]

If you're saying I missed it initially when the document was revealed, I knew about base mode, I just didn't know it would restrict the gpu and cpu clocks down to regular ps4 levels.

Even MS claimed that nothing would be different on Xbox One S but most likely it will benefit from having 250 more Gflops even if base mode is limited to the 18 compute units but not something that will change things much.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sorry I misread your post to mean that there would be slight difference plus the other stuff you specifically mentioned, and hence commented on the slight differences part, thinking you were saying they would be game performance related differences.

There will be slight differences, just not due to spec increase.

 

[Grahamsprodigy]

The trademark for Virtua Fighter was quietly renewed last month. We are probably going to have an announcement about VF6.

Source: http://www.trademarkia.com/virtua-fighter-74472195.html

 

[farisr]

Even MS claimed that nothing would be different on Xbox One S but most likely it will benefit from having 250 more Gflops even if base mode is limited to the 18 compute units but not something that will change things much.

I was never expecting it to access all 36 compute units, only 18 (since that's how many ps4 has).

The thing is the wording in that documents suggests in base mode, it won't have access to the extra power the 18 compute units, and the 8 cpu cores are providing thanks to the upclock, like as though in base mode, it'll be downclocked to ps4 levels.

"All specs that affect title behavior are same as the original Playstation 4 system"

hence the sigh...

Also, MS was PR stuff. From a couple of interviews and all the confusing messages around e3 after the reveal, it's really apparent in hindsight that devs knew about the slight boost that the xbox one s has, that could lead to slightly better performance here and there.

This on the other hand is official documentation meant for devs stating that it'll have the same specs as the original ps4 system in base mode.

There's a difference.

But this is something that could be changed even pretty late, and if they were indeed planning on restricting the extra power from base mode before, I hope the good reception of the xbox one s performance increases has changed their minds. I mean, these are basically effort-free neo upgrades applying across the board. Sure they won't be even close to taking advantage of all the extra power in the neo, but it still adds value if a game that was dropping to 25fps on the ps4 is running at a locked 30fps on the neo.

A part of me wishes I hadn't seen this (because for all we know things have changed regarding this, and I'm disappointed for no reason), and another part is glad that I came across this so I have my expectations in check if it indeed turns out to be the case.

 

[Simply Sami]

Apple September 7th keynote seems confirmed

Welp.

This wouldn't be the first time Apple holds an event that coincides with a games industry platform holder. In the past its events have clashed several times with Microsoft's own E3 press conferences, and they even had a keynote at the same time Satoru Iwata was advising an audience at GDC about protecting the importance of protecting the value of video games and craftsmanship. They also launched the iPad 2 on the same day as the 3DS launched in Europe, which effectively killed off mainstream media coverage of Nintendo's then-new handheld at the time.

Unlike some of those previous events, I don't think an Apple clash would be intentional this time around, as this is pretty much the best day they can hold the event relative to new product launches. But it will be a big event -- Apple's apparently only wanting to do one big event a year rather than two separate events in the last four months of the year.

I did say before that it was a mistake by Sony, before people said the usual mobile has nothing to do with gaming.

It's nothing to do with mobile. It's about grabbing attention and headlines. The tech headlines on that day will be for the IPhone 7 and not Neo.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Even MS claimed that nothing would be different on Xbox One S

Microsoft was also trying to move old inventory before rolling out a replacement model. They had clear incentive to make the statement they did, and they also had incentive to close the gap with PS4. The same does not apply here. I fully expect base mode to be pretty much locked down except where there was room for variability before (network and disk performance, for example, were already variable so they won't be throttled.)