Why do you dislike Hilary Clinton?
- Thread starter freeofgreed
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agreed. i think a lot of that came from when she was going head-to-head with Sanders and it got a little nasty. those fights pushed a lot of young voters away from the early beginning and she never fully recovered
Bush administration "lost" 22 million emails while in office. they hid that pretty good.
The Albatross
Member
That's rather difficult to predict. Would anybody have predicted that Richard Nixon, another historically distrusted presidential candidate (who had the nickname "Tricky Dick" before he was president), actually broken into his political opponents hotel room to steal campaign plans that he didn't even need to win an election that was a landslide ? Did anybody think that Nixon would have bugged the phones of members of his cabinet and other his friends in order to get secret tapes of them? Would anybody have thought Nixon would have bugged the phones of journalists? Nobody would have thought this explicitly in 1967 about Richard Nixon, but they would have (and did) say "Eehh, I don't know if I trust him..."
I don't care about trust when it comes to politicians, so I don't hold Clinton's untrustworthiness against he. I'm voting for her and I've been a staunch supporter throughout the Democratic primary.
But it's impossible to predict how a candidates untrustworthiness plays out in the White House. The best you can do is look to other politicians who have been historically distrusted and see how that played out. Nixon is, arguably, the closest analog when it comes to successful candidates who were distrusted. The prime mover behind Nixon's distrust (his borderline neurotic personality driving him to do these things) was the downfall of his presidency, otherwise it would have been mildly successful and he would be remembered very differently.
Considering that Trump has lambasted the Bush administration and Bush has not endorsed Trump (and his father, Bush 41, has seemingly endorsed Clinton), I don't know who you're trying to appeal to by comparing Clinton's email issues to the Bush administration's. This makes sense in the primary, when it was Clinton & Bernie and if you're a Bernie supporter, but it makes no sense in the general election if you're trying to argue on behalf of Clinton.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I don't know enough about Hilary Clinton the person or the politician to say I like or dislike her. But I don't like the idea of her. And this is the same reason why I don't like the idea of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Canada despite actually liking a lot of his policies.
I don't like that since 1988 - almost 30 years, we've had Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Clinton in office and if it weren't for Donald Trump, there's a very good chance that we would have had another Bush-Clinton presidential race. And who knows? It still might be possible in 2020 if Trump loses. The idea of political dynasties like this should not sit well with anyone who lives in a democracy.
I don't like that since 1988 - almost 30 years, we've had Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Clinton in office and if it weren't for Donald Trump, there's a very good chance that we would have had another Bush-Clinton presidential race. And who knows? It still might be possible in 2020 if Trump loses. The idea of political dynasties like this should not sit well with anyone who lives in a democracy.
freeofgreed
Member
Like I said before. Most of her "flip flops" have been her become more liberal as time goes on. Which is completely natural considering how quickly times have changed and her being in politicals for as long as she has.
If She wins and then signs the TPP anyway then yeah definitely give her endless shit for it.
Let's be honest, she's probably praying for Bams to push TPP through before he gets outta office so that she doesn't have to deal with it.
Because, let's also be honestly, the TPP would be great for American business and influence in Asia and it would be completely irresponsible as the leader of our nation to NOT sign it. Bams isn't pushing for it because he's a bloodthirsty businessman in league with Wall St (despite what some people think) he's pushing for it because it's the best option on the table to help American business and limit Chinese influence.
In that case, I'd be the first one to stand up and applaud her!
Prime crotch
Banned
I don't think she has any lack of charisma for that matter, she's likeable enough; you don't get where you got being a woman without some ounce of charisma. As for her campaign, the narrative she's the ur-woke candidate probably soured more people than it helped, maybe that's why some still say Trump is "authentic" despite the bumbling mess he is.
Vince_Russo
Banned
Bernie is better. Biden is better. And she's running after 8 awesome years of Obama.
I don't dislike her, I feel sorry for her -- but I'm really concerned that she's likely going to lose Ohio -- and possibly Florida and Nevada. She's going to beat Trump by a less margin than Obama beat Romney. Really troubling.
I don't dislike her, I feel sorry for her -- but I'm really concerned that she's likely going to lose Ohio -- and possibly Florida and Nevada. She's going to beat Trump by a less margin than Obama beat Romney. Really troubling.
the-pi-guy
Member
Yep. A huge part of it.
A lot of people on the right are insanely paranoid. The reason why conspiracy theories are so tantalizing is because there's always a gap of proof. Something bad happens, someone can always imagine these crazy ideas.
Even when evidence comes up to the contrary, anyone can say "oh they lied", "the evidence was faked", "the FBI is lying.", etc.
Some things that I've heard Hillary blamed for, or worried she will do include: Selling weapons to the middle east, benghazi, etc.
I agree completely.
Ditto, it's the right thing to do... unfortunately because her voting block is so badly informed about the TPP she cannot come out and say "this is what we should do" because she'd be reviled for it.
This is pretty much why I can't vote for her. I dislike her as a human being. Trump is far worse, but that doesn't mean that I can ethically give my vote to her just because she is less disgusting to me.
You know for this last line, I don't think you'd ever want to be friends with a super powerful leader.
In the end they will make decisions you may not like but it is their responsibility and duty and you can't always see eye to eye. I know I love Obama as a leader and despite his awesome personality I probably couldn't be his friends when he's supporting drone strikes overseas.
We definitely shouldn't hold "friendability" or even "I can have a beer with" as a criteria for our leaders. Good leaders aren't friends, they are leaders.
freeofgreed
Member
You're right but if she does win the presidency I don't believe she'll actually push it through. Mainly because if Obama can't get it through before he leaves it'll most likely be dead anyways, and if not, she'd be absolutely crucified if she still went and pushed for it after campaigning against it.
Not American but she strikes me as a person that goes wherever the wind is blowing.
She was for mass incarceration and private prisons now she's against. She was for TPP and TTIP now she's against, Iraq same thing.
The only constant has been healthcare really everything else she seems to just go by the prevailing mood of the times instead of sticking to principles and looking long term.
Of course she's infinitely better than Trump in every regard so it doesn't really matter...
She was for mass incarceration and private prisons now she's against. She was for TPP and TTIP now she's against, Iraq same thing.
The only constant has been healthcare really everything else she seems to just go by the prevailing mood of the times instead of sticking to principles and looking long term.
Of course she's infinitely better than Trump in every regard so it doesn't really matter...
the whole DNC/Bernie scandal is so inflated it's sad.
they were opponents, Sanders wasn't a democrat until 2014 iirc, he was independent. he only ran dem for the publicity, the same way Trump did with republicans. of-freaking-course they're going to go on the attack and defensive.
she is one of, if not thee one, most qualified candidate running this year out of both parties since the start of this race. she'll implement what she needs to, say what she needs to and more. to question if she's capable of this is silly.
they were opponents, Sanders wasn't a democrat until 2014 iirc, he was independent. he only ran dem for the publicity, the same way Trump did with republicans. of-freaking-course they're going to go on the attack and defensive.
she is one of, if not thee one, most qualified candidate running this year out of both parties since the start of this race. she'll implement what she needs to, say what she needs to and more. to question if she's capable of this is silly.
freeofgreed
Member
Audioboxer
Member
She's soo establishment and pro big government/business she probably wipes her arse with $100 bills.
Short of it. Basically she just isn't my cup of tea as individual. I much prefer Nicola Sturgeon as someone who seems to be more of a human being.
Americas political system and parties are absolutely fucked though. For now just keep trump out.
Short of it. Basically she just isn't my cup of tea as individual. I much prefer Nicola Sturgeon as someone who seems to be more of a human being.
Americas political system and parties are absolutely fucked though. For now just keep trump out.
mrhyderager
Member
I read this article a couple of days ago and disagree on so many levels.
Are there sexists who dislike Hillary because she's a she? Yeah, sure, I know a couple of them in person.
Pretending that it's inherently sexist to dislike Hillary or that it's built on inherent sexism is ignorant and is solely being pushed to invalidate people with very valid opinions on Hillary as a candidate for the president of this country. People who dislike Hillary are not by default redneck koolaid drinking Trump supporters.
God Dayumm
Banned
I don't dislike her. I dislike some of the decisions she takes because she is white and overprivileged and doesn't know better, but I don't dislike her overall. I actually like that she flip flops on her views because it means that she is willing to make changes for the better, and I don't care what her real motivations are as long as those changes are positive. I hope she eventually reverses her pro-war, pro-Israel views just like she did about gay marriage, and that she also warms up to marijuana legislation.
Doesn't really answer to the concerns I have with her. She only changes her opinion when she's forced to by someone to the left of her.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
This past year has been utterly insane on this board with regards to the rift and the political flame wars. The mods have banned a lot of people on all sides of these debates, and in the aftermath of all this, I wonder if anything was learned or achieved.
Yes, I do have differences with Clinton and I've said my piece on that with regards to foreign policy in many threads, but looking back at it, I think my dislike of Clinton grew from being dragged into the mud with some of the Clinton supporters, and then it becomes that. It's not about the candidate, it's a new connotation born out of supporters that knee jerk the living daylight out of me.
And I know some Bernie Supporters are not any better, but that's really what it is. "I like Bernie, but fuck his supporters and fuck him because of it".
Politics is emotional. People vote emotional and they vote selfishly. We vote based on our perspective and there is no way around it. It bothers me that people on all sides including myself are so influenced on the candidates ability to articulate themselves. It's not new that communication is key, but I am concerned that... that people can be so annoyed at someones voice or manner of speaking that it is enough to almost outright hate somebody. The policies should be so much more important than the candidate but I think this isn't the case for most people on all sides of the spectrum!
Edit // I don't hate Hillary at all. I just don't see that she (or Obama) is in this to hurt anybody. And that's important, because you cannot say that about Donald Trump. I thought Trump was hilarious in the first debates. It was like Monster Trucks: Politics. EU Politics is so boring compared to the American insanity. The stakes are higher, everything is more extreme, life or death, nuclear war, template for the entire western world. So for things to turn out this way has been completely unexpected.
Yes, I do have differences with Clinton and I've said my piece on that with regards to foreign policy in many threads, but looking back at it, I think my dislike of Clinton grew from being dragged into the mud with some of the Clinton supporters, and then it becomes that. It's not about the candidate, it's a new connotation born out of supporters that knee jerk the living daylight out of me.
And I know some Bernie Supporters are not any better, but that's really what it is. "I like Bernie, but fuck his supporters and fuck him because of it".
Politics is emotional. People vote emotional and they vote selfishly. We vote based on our perspective and there is no way around it. It bothers me that people on all sides including myself are so influenced on the candidates ability to articulate themselves. It's not new that communication is key, but I am concerned that... that people can be so annoyed at someones voice or manner of speaking that it is enough to almost outright hate somebody. The policies should be so much more important than the candidate but I think this isn't the case for most people on all sides of the spectrum!
Edit // I don't hate Hillary at all. I just don't see that she (or Obama) is in this to hurt anybody. And that's important, because you cannot say that about Donald Trump. I thought Trump was hilarious in the first debates. It was like Monster Trucks: Politics. EU Politics is so boring compared to the American insanity. The stakes are higher, everything is more extreme, life or death, nuclear war, template for the entire western world. So for things to turn out this way has been completely unexpected.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Hillary Clinton has been losing the fight against ISIS, moving American jobs to Mexico and ignoring the water situation in Michigan her entire adult life..she is basura.
Abinash117
Member
For some of those things like mass incarceration and Iraq, shouldn't she be against now though, assuming she always supported mass incarceration and private prisons? Would it be better to consistently support a policy even if it was bad or ineffective?
I don't really understand why switching positions is entirely a bad thing, depending on the context.
How is this a bad thing?
That she grows up and is open to change and can change? Had she stuck to her "principles" she would have been yet another outdated candidate of a time where it sucked for a lot of non-white, cis folks.
"Flip Flop" only applies if she started campaigning for/against something only to switch very quickly like her stance on TPP. Changing her ideals and views and updating her principals over the course of decades should be applauded.
After all isn't a president who is open to listening to the minds of the people infinitely better than a president who assumes we know what we want and won't budge no matter how hard we scream? This is how riots start.
QuantumBro
Banned
I'm with Tim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjOkff24kGs
I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not want to be a Trump head.
I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not want to be a Trump head.
Sources:
Edit: Note that I'm not discrediting you but I haven't heard about any of that stuff, granted I'm not American myself so it wouldn't be a surprise that I haven't, but that's exactly the reason you'd want to source this. Ya know?
This reminds me of Sanders being asked if he feels that he's being sexist for not dropping out against Clinton.
So, disagreeing with Hillary as a candidate is somewhere along the lines of sexism, no matter what people say? The article is dumb.
She's the embodiment of an entitled politician.
I don't want to see a family in power for that long.
Too strong of ties to corporations/Wall St.
Not liberal enough on cannabis descheduling.
Follows polls too closely - does what's popular instead of what is right sometimes.
The whole DNC collusion against Bernie. People act like it's nothing now, but it's a big deal and really damages the integrity of the party to younger and more liberal democrats.
I'll still vote for her, because Trump, but there are many reasons why she's not my first choice.
I don't want to see a family in power for that long.
Too strong of ties to corporations/Wall St.
Not liberal enough on cannabis descheduling.
Follows polls too closely - does what's popular instead of what is right sometimes.
The whole DNC collusion against Bernie. People act like it's nothing now, but it's a big deal and really damages the integrity of the party to younger and more liberal democrats.
I'll still vote for her, because Trump, but there are many reasons why she's not my first choice.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
It's going on 25 years in the spotlight of national politics and most of the time a target of the GOP talking heads and a lot of people have been tired of the Clintons since the late 90s which is at least in part thanks to the GOP's constant witch hunt trying to bring them down. I'm kind of dreading the next four years because as annoying/bad as it's been with Obama, Hillary is going to make the idiots, especially in the GOP go into over drive. The fact that she isn't decimating Trump in the polls is astonishing and that has nothing to do with him being a strong candidate and with her, thanks to the baggage, quirks and just fitting several politician stereotypes, being a poor one that just like in 2008 the media (and DNC for that matter) anointed her the next nominee (and in some cases the next president) before the primaries even started. Only this time there wasn't an Obama to steal her thunder and *her* nomination.
They're just lucky that the GOP has pretty much imploded (which in no small is thanks to their own shit) and their nominee is probably the worst in the history of a mainstream political party in the US.
They're just lucky that the GOP has pretty much imploded (which in no small is thanks to their own shit) and their nominee is probably the worst in the history of a mainstream political party in the US.
My issue is she makes the "mistake" whilst people tell her the negatives then she only changes her opinion when the general mood has swayed either nationally or within in the party.
Taking advice before a decision is great, making the decision then switching support and writing it off as a mistake isn't.
The negatives of all the things I mentioned were well known she still supported it until it was unpopular to do so. I'm not saying don't take advice or change your mind before making a decision is a negative. But post "mistake" it is, it shows bad judgement and/or lack of belief in her decisions.
She's a true blooded political which is what we need at this moment after the Obama legacy. Any other party in the WH and elsewhere would strip any action he put into rule.
OT, 5 states have propositions on the November ballot to decriminalize and tax marijuana for consumers >21
The reasons I dislike her are pretty self explanatory. Off the top of my head;
Patriot Act
Benghazi
Emails
Iraq War
Flip Flopping
TTP
Wall Street
I do not have to like her to realize she would still be a better president than Trump. I feel as though people get offended when someone says they dislike Hillary due to the Trump factor. Anyone can look like a perfect angel next to him.
Patriot Act
Benghazi
Emails
Iraq War
Flip Flopping
TTP
Wall Street
I do not have to like her to realize she would still be a better president than Trump. I feel as though people get offended when someone says they dislike Hillary due to the Trump factor. Anyone can look like a perfect angel next to him.
Fragamemnon
Member
I voted her for her in the 2008 primary (and would do so again over Obama), and was happy to vote for her again in 2016. I like her quite a bit and she's always been the kind of operative candidate Dems need to exploit the fault lines in the national GOP so we can actually push through incremental legislation in an extremely polarized environment.
The trustworthiness crap is just what happens when you cherry-pick events over the span of thirty years and spread it around, mixing it with people that don't understand how to reconcile their own cognitive biases. Anyone in public life for decades is going to have a 'trustworthiness' case against them by their detractors, but in reality that case is just someone living their lives and making decisions in the open, making mistakes sometimes because that's what humans do.
I don't have a problem with people not liking Hillary provided that they are cognizant of their subconscious bias and their reasoning don't mirror those that qualified women get when they get turned down for jobs in male-dominated fields.
The trustworthiness crap is just what happens when you cherry-pick events over the span of thirty years and spread it around, mixing it with people that don't understand how to reconcile their own cognitive biases. Anyone in public life for decades is going to have a 'trustworthiness' case against them by their detractors, but in reality that case is just someone living their lives and making decisions in the open, making mistakes sometimes because that's what humans do.
I don't have a problem with people not liking Hillary provided that they are cognizant of their subconscious bias and their reasoning don't mirror those that qualified women get when they get turned down for jobs in male-dominated fields.
How'd you feel about Clinton's involvement in the Swiss file transfer?
It sucks that congress won't be half as amazing. I wish we could have dems control congress like in the early Obama days.
Netherscourge
Banned
Her overall image is manufactured and very little, if any, is natural or unrehearsed. My concern is what lies underneath.
I am very concerned with her influence by favors/promises/positions in exchange for campaign money. I am also concerned with her off-the-radar decisions, like using a private email server against the rules and whatnot. May not seem like a big deal to people, but it shows she's willing to forgo transparency to keep things more hidden than they should be.
Transparency is important to me and she shows very little of it unless forced to.
Those are my issues with Hillary Clinton.
That said, Donald Trump is so completely unqualified to be President that I will cast aside any of these issues I have with Hillary to keep that ignorant, lying, misogynist asshole as far away from the White House as possible.
I am very concerned with her influence by favors/promises/positions in exchange for campaign money. I am also concerned with her off-the-radar decisions, like using a private email server against the rules and whatnot. May not seem like a big deal to people, but it shows she's willing to forgo transparency to keep things more hidden than they should be.
Transparency is important to me and she shows very little of it unless forced to.
Those are my issues with Hillary Clinton.
That said, Donald Trump is so completely unqualified to be President that I will cast aside any of these issues I have with Hillary to keep that ignorant, lying, misogynist asshole as far away from the White House as possible.
Her plan to reschedule it to tier II would help corporations and big pharma wanting to get into being producers, but would do nothing to empower individual patients.
There needs to be focus on letting people grow their own plants in our laws, not just the right to buy corporately-produced cannabis at a huge markup.
What exactly are the ties to Wall Street? Quick google search says that she has received lots of donations from top banks over the clintons career in politics. But isn't that also just part of going through the system as a politician? The Clinton family has been a thing since 1992. They are gonna get donations
Are there other examples that paint the ties in a more sinister light? By your other points (career politician, Clinton family power) it seems like a lot of it is related to my first post: in politics for a very long time which I guess can be seen as a negative.
This is the first job I've seen where having too much experience is actually seen as a bad thing ha
It is a fact, that these are the two least liked candidates in recent memory.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...or-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/
Dukakis was the high? Man.
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