• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Red Letter Media - The Star Wars Awakens Review

Status
Not open for further replies.
The film is pretty solid so there wasn't really that much for him to complain about it.

The analysis of the current state of Star Wars felt like a whole separate video.

The actual TFA review was pretty much him saying he liked the film and that there wasn't much to complain about. His opinions on how Star Wars is a "manufactured" film series now is pretty much a popular complaint thrown at Hollywood at this point soooo we got nothing new there. And then he pulls out the diversity and sexual tension complaints and the review really falls apart for a while. Then it ends.

Overall I wouldn't call this review disappointing, but I would say it was unnecessary. I don't think i'll rewatch it like i've rewatched his prequel reviews.
 
Seriously though, they made such a diverse movie but go through such gymnastics to make sure there isn't any sexual tension between a black man and a white woman? Seems pretty damn suspect.
 
Watching the clips of Lucas lamenting Disney's decision to do ANH again as the beginning for their movies adds to my support for Lucas. I know he's ridiculously wealthy and doesn't need my sympathy. I know he sold the IP to Disney. I know he had help crafting the OT. I know the prequels struggled due to him having too much control rather than collaborating with others to get some assistance where he isn't strong with film making.

I do enjoy the prequels though. The romance scenes are hard for me to sit through. I won't say they've secretly been brilliant but never been given a chance, but I really enjoy the prequels. I remember thinking vividly when I left the theater after seeing TFA, the very first thought I had was that movie made me appreciate the prequels and George Lucas more.


I love how the new movies helped get Mark Hammil in great shape though. I love that TFA was a return to practical effects. I just didn't enjoy the plot very much. I didn't like what they did do with the OT characters. I would have preferred for the movie to be set at a point where all three were dead over what they chose to do with Han, Luke and Leia
 
Cross-posting some quick and dirty thoughts from my FB:


Re: First Order/Resistance - How the larger setting is conveyed in the movie is a bit muddled, but I think they made a good decision in keeping it generally opaque. The immediacy of the Order vs. the Resistance conflict draws the viewers in, even if the stakes of the conflict aren't entirely clear; in contrast to the tedious 'worldbuilding' of PT. While saying the EU materials do a good job explaining the geopolitics doesn't change how it was in the movie (or handwave the blatant parallelism), I do like the idea of the New Republic being too decadent to properly fight the Order and tacitly relying on what are essentially Contras to do their dirty work. It's also kind of why I prefer the implication of Leia being a cynical Cold Warrior rather than an idealist like Mon Mothma.

Re: Diversity - I mean, as a civil Libertarian I totally get letting creators use whatever characters they want, but at the same time 'Star Wars is not the real world' is kind of a flimsy excuse. It's still something being created in the real world using real world actors and marketed to real world people. I don't really know, and I don't think anyone does really, to what extent mass media affects identity, but I don't think concerns about visibility of minority identities in media is something that can be simply swept aside. I mean, in a world where Hollywood can't consistently cast Asian actors for Asian roles, saying that casting would be naturally colorblind strikes me as arguing in bad faith.

Re: Romance - I really don't think any overt romantic elements would've benefited the film. The characters were plenty human as is (Perhaps a bit _too_ human in the case of Finn; I kinda agree he was a bit too goofy for someone raised as an amoral killer since birth, but I think all the humor worked in context). I understand the importance of romance to the whole 'monomyth' thing, but it just seems like it'd be totally ancillary to each of the individuals personal arcs.
 
Cross-posting some quick and dirty thoughts from my FB:


Re: First Order/Resistance - How the larger setting is conveyed in the movie is a bit muddled, but I think they made a good decision in keeping it generally opaque. The immediacy of the Order vs. the Resistance conflict draws the viewers in, even if the stakes of the conflict aren't entirely clear; in contrast to the tedious 'worldbuilding' of PT. While saying the EU materials do a good job explaining the geopolitics doesn't change how it was in the movie (or handwave the blatant parallelism), I do like the idea of the New Republic being too decadent to properly fight the Order and tacitly relying on what are essentially Contras to do their dirty work. It's also kind of why I prefer the implication of Leia being a cynical Cold Warrior rather than an idealist like Mon Mothma.

Re: Diversity - I mean, as a civil Libertarian I totally get letting creators use whatever characters they want, but at the same time 'Star Wars is not the real world' is kind of a flimsy excuse. It's still something being created in the real world using real world actors and marketed to real world people. I don't really know, and I don't think anyone does really, to what extent mass media affects identity, but I don't think concerns about visibility of minority identities in media is something that can be simply swept aside. I mean, in a world where Hollywood can't consistently cast Asian actors for Asian roles, saying that casting would be naturally colorblind strikes me as arguing in bad faith.

Re: Romance - I really don't think any overt romantic elements would've benefited the film. The characters were plenty human as is (Perhaps a bit _too_ human in the case of Finn; I kinda agree he was a bit too goofy for someone raised as an amoral killer since birth, but I think all the humor worked in context). I understand the importance of romance to the whole 'monomyth' thing, but it just seems like it'd be totally ancillary to each of the individuals personal arcs.

They sort of hinted at this but I was surprised when he was criticizing Finn's character that he didn't go into more depth. My personal biggest issue with the film is how Finn's personality doesn't match his background. He really should be an anti-social weirdo given his upbringing, not a goofy sidekick.
 
That was just exceptionally BORING. Between this and Space Cop maybe they should cool it with their scripted content.
 
Seriously though, they made such a diverse movie but go through such gymnastics to make sure there isn't any sexual tension between a black man and a white woman? Seems pretty damn suspect.

I don't really get how it's mental gymnastics. It'd be one thing if it was, say, that Rey found a white guy to do, but the reason why there's no sexual tension between them is because there isn't. Compare it to the love triangle of ANH - a farm boy who has brief tastes of freedom but nothing more. A smuggler who loves the dames. A princess who is expected to be above all of that. Here? We have Finn, a Stormtrooper who is only just "awakening" to a desire to escape the horrors of his profession. We have a girl who doesn't really keep any friends or really yearn for them. These types of characters aren't the kinds of people whose crotches magnetize together. Perhaps we will see something come Episode VIII, but Rey is too obsessed with Luke and the Jedi order and the Resistance to think of those kinds of things - she's basically a career woman. The notion of friendship blossoming into love also would be reflective of the times we are in, where people are not looking for love as much as they used to, and often just have it drop into their laps.
 
I liked the hour of shitting on Lucas and contrarian assholes who defend the prequels.


It kinda falls apart when they start talking about Awakens. You kind of need to really reach to say something interesting about a movie as manufactured, bland and inoffensive as that ya know?

Also its kind of hard to tell if RLM are deliberately trolling with the SEX stuff. I dunno.


Also with Star Wars about to be milked to hell and back I think Ill be happy if they just say they dont plan to use this format for any more star wars films. Save plinkett for something interesting.
 
Re: Diversity - I mean, as a civil Libertarian I totally get letting creators use whatever characters they want, but at the same time 'Star Wars is not the real world' is kind of a flimsy excuse. It's still something being created in the real world using real world actors and marketed to real world people. I don't really know, and I don't think anyone does really, to what extent mass media affects identity, but I don't think concerns about visibility of minority identities in media is something that can be simply swept aside. I mean, in a world where Hollywood can't consistently cast Asian actors for Asian roles, saying that casting would be naturally colorblind strikes me as arguing in bad faith.
wait where was this said
 
I'll also say, again echoing what I said on Facebook, that the whole 'Star Wars has become commercialized' segment is a bit eye-rolling. It was always pushing a product, and I think to suggest there was somehow a time when filmmaking was more 'pure' is to overly mythologize the past. If anything studios are less horrible now than they were during the 'Golden Age' of Hollywood; and frankly successful Cinematic Universes give directors chances to do interesting things, like Gaurdians of the Galaxy. I think this is one of those times where there sort of Gen-X sensibilities clashes with a more Millennial outlook.

They sort of hinted at this but I was surprised when he was criticizing Finn's character that he didn't go into more depth. My personal biggest issue with the film is how Finn's personality doesn't match his background. He really should be an anti-social weirdo given his upbringing, not a goofy sidekick.

I think the issue with that though is then you'd have overtones of him having to be 'civilized' by Rey, which could be problematic.

I mean, you could argue his sociability is part of being a 'defective' soldier, but I don't think that necessarily translates into the sort of silliness Finn portrays.
 
Lack of sex. Finally I know what felt wrong with this movie.

That is why everything felt so sterile and alien, real characters have blood in their vains, blood that wants to go between their legs.

The only semi sexual thing in this movie was the bromance between Flynn and that white pilot.
 
I'll also say, again echoing what I said on Facebook, that the whole 'Star Wars has become commercialized' segment is a bit eye-rolling. It was always pushing a product, and I think to suggest there was somehow a time when filmmaking was more 'pure' is to overly mythologize the past. If anything studios are less horrible now than they were during the 'Golden Age' of Hollywood; and frankly successful Cinematic Universes give directors chances to do interesting things, like Gaurdians of the Galaxy. I think this is one of those times where there sort of Gen-X sensibilities clashes with a more Millennial outlook.
There's only one successfully cinematic universe and it's Marvel. Everyone else is tripping and/or failing as Plinkett showed.
 
wait where was this said

It's when Mike compares Star Wars to Star Trek on the topic of diversity. He basically says that because Star Wars doesn't take place in a world where racial discrimination exists (unlike Star Trek), it doesn't have any obligation to be diverse. Which... again like I said, is a pretty flimsy excuse.

I don't really get how it's mental gymnastics. It'd be one thing if it was, say, that Rey found a white guy to do, but the reason why there's no sexual tension between them is because there isn't. Compare it to the love triangle of ANH - a farm boy who has brief tastes of freedom but nothing more. A smuggler who loves the dames. A princess who is expected to be above all of that. Here? We have Finn, a Stormtrooper who is only just "awakening" to a desire to escape the horrors of his profession. We have a girl who doesn't really keep any friends or really yearn for them. These types of characters aren't the kinds of people whose crotches magnetize together. Perhaps we will see something come Episode VIII, but Rey is too obsessed with Luke and the Jedi order and the Resistance to think of those kinds of things - she's basically a career woman. The notion of friendship blossoming into love also would be reflective of the times we are in, where people are not looking for love as much as they used to, and often just have it drop into their laps.

Yeah, like I said there seems to be a sort of disconnect between their more normative Gen-X view of the world (formed as it was during the Reagan years) from a more pluralistic Millennial conception.

There's only one successfully cinematic universe and it's Marvel. Everyone else is tripping and/or failing as Plinkett showed.

I think the fact Marvel's has been so successful has shown it's more than possible (Jurassic world did really well for itself too). What I'm pushing back is against the idea that Cinematic Universes are inherently creatively harmful; I think if anything they're a great way to use the leverage an IP provides to tackle different stories, moreso than the traditional franchise sequel /reboot format even.
 
Except Hollywood made more good movies during its Golden Age than it did now. That's not mythology - they made a TON of shit, far more shit than good - but imagine how homogenized a Hitchcock or Hawks would be if they were making movies now.

lol at Guardians of the Galaxy being an 'interesting thing', though.
 
I pretty much entirely disagree with his stances on diversity and romance.

With Diversity, as far as I'm concerned, Star Wars did it right. One major blocking point of diversity is when you suggest a minority of some kind be in a role that isn't usually the role they fill, the immediate question is "Why make them X then?" Like, why is Phasma a woman? Plinkett suggested they should have her helmet off and humanize her. Why? She's clearly the Boba Fett of the series, having a cool armor and not much else to her character. No one ever asked to see Boba Fett's face in the original trilogy (atleast not for the sake of humanizing him), he was just a guy in badass armor. Why can't a woman fill that role? And the series does a lot of that. It puts women and people of color in roles and doesn't explain it any further than that. And I hope films do that enough where people just get used to that. Because I do disagree with him that kids don't care about this stuff. Seeing a black kid play with star wars doesn't change that. Of course, people of color and women aren't going to not like a well made series just because it doesn't have minority. But probably is damaging to be unable to see themselves in that universe. And it is also damaging to white boys to be unable to see girls and people of color in that universe. It doesn't make them racist, but there is a thing like implicit bias and not having diversity probably feeds into that.

The other point is the romance aspect, which is kind of mixed in with the diversity angle. He's right that "Get the girl" has traditionally been part of the adventure. I have wanted to see that aspect removed long before star wars. The phrasing of it is literally treating the female character as the prize. Romance, obviously, can happily be part of any story and fits within the theme of adventure, but I don't like how this has become the default role of the female character in any given adventure movie. And if not including that makes them asexual....well, that's really stretching the definition here. Finn is clearly attracted to Rey. He's just awkward about shit, and I don't see how that can be made any more clear. Rey, on the other hand, just doesn't seem interested. And that should be okay. We don't really know why Rey doesn't like Finn that way, but why are we entitled to a reason at all? Some people just don't like each other or it's not the right time or whatever. Hell, maybe she actually is asexual. There are people who aren't interested in sex. And Rey defying being the prize this way is a good way to break away from the "Get the Girl" stereotype that would detract from her status as a hero. It would have been perfectly fine if she fell in love with Finn, but it should also be perfectly fine for her not to. There isn't anything to be gained, from what I can tell except dinging off another adventure trope.

And as for sexuality, while the first SW films were more sexual than the new ones, that's because of 2 things: I feel we're smarter about how we handle sexuality now than we were back then, so just throwing in stuff like Leia in a bikini isn't going to happen, and that's a good thing. Now, our romances, atleast in SW, are focused more on affection and emotional closeness. This is evident in how Finn tries to court Rey. He's trying to be a gallant knight figure, while Han gave off a bad boy, flirtatious sort of vibe. It's a different way of depicting intimacy, and it's definitely cleaner, but it's certainly not sterile.
 
Was it just me but I always got the impression Finn was trying to make a move on Rey since he found her attractive/was the first female he interacted with/genuinely liked her for being so authentic/etc but didn't really know how due to his upbringing and the lie he kept putting forward for half of the movie. Rey clearly doesn't reciprocate those feelings for any number of reasons based upon who Rey actually is whenever we find that out. I do get their point about SEX though I do feel TFA did a good job with this emotional attachment between Rey and Solo.
 
Except Hollywood made more good movies during its Golden Age than it did now. That's not mythology - they made a TON of shit, far more shit than good - but imagine how homogenized a Hitchcock or Hawks would be if they were making movies now.

lol at Guardians of the Galaxy being an 'interesting thing', though.

To me that's a sort of force of will of auteur Filmmakers than anything endogenous to that period of film. Modern day has great fillmmakers like Spike Jonze, Aronofsky, Tarantino, Fincher, and in a more mass market sense Nolan (Abrams might be an edge-case on being great). I think the idea that the old Studio System was somehow more conducive to creating movies as art is insane.
 
I don't wanna live in a world where we can't get random bikinis.

Edit: to the above, Tarantino will prob be remembered (though more as a "what if?", given he never really matured as an artist), Fincher is a total studio hack, Aronofsky is best making small independent dramas, and Jonze's films I have not seen in a while.

Regardless, the point is not so much whether or not there are good filmmakers in a given time, but that there was more risk-taking and more variety in the old studio system. Modern Hollywood is more materially diverse in terms of the actors and personnel, but the actual stories told are put through a ridiculous wringer of suits, focus testing, marketing, etc. Pair that with massively overinflated budgets that ensure fewer films are produced, and you have the bleak state of modern filmmaking.
 
1. Spent too much time on ring theory. First 50 minutes felt like he was overly justifying his eviscerating reviews on the prequels and felt like he needed to get the last word as to why he was right.

2. Nothing at all surprising on the actual review of the movie. Yes it was a soft reboot. Yes soft reboots suck. Yes we all see them for what they are. No, we can't do a damn thing about it because of the current structure of how Hollywood makes the modern blockbuster. Deal with it.

3. Takes a weird trip down diversity lane. Should have just stayed far the fuck away from this thought train because as you can see on the previous pages in this thread, a lot of people take it to mean a lot of different things based on their world view.

4. I just made a fucking list.

It was ok. Good for a watch once if you're a fan of his, but don't expect much of anything out of it other than to possibly be mildly entertained or completely offended by his diversity take and how he feels about romance in the Star Wars universe.
 
I don't wanna live in a world where we can't get random bikinis.

My friend, have you heard the Good News of Anime?

Seriously though, while I don't think 'sexy Leia' is 'bad' per se, it sort of smacks of directorial excess that doesn't fit congruently with the rest of the film (similar to the issues with Cidney in FFXV, though worse because George Lucas forced Fisher into that position). I can definitely understand why people would find it problematic, since it's not like Star Wars is a titillating series otherwise.

Regardless, the point is not so much whether or not there are good filmmakers in a given time, but that there was more risk-taking and more variety in the old studio system. Modern Hollywood is more materially diverse in terms of the actors and personnel, but the actual stories told are put through a ridiculous wringer of suits, focus testing, marketing, etc. Pair that with massively overinflated budgets that ensure fewer films are produced, and you have the bleak state of modern filmmaking.

Frankly I think part of it is that the Film-going experience just isn't ass relevant as it once was. I think the growth of media viewable at home or on the go is doing to movies what the television did to movies previously in the 50s and 60s. And to combat that Studios have been forced to double down on Blockbuster experiences that can get people out of the house. We're definitely in a transitional stage.
 
Kind of ironic to hear Plinkett asking about things like how the First Order got the funding for Starkiller base, how the Resistance isn't the status quo but is the resistance, why there wasn't a resistance fleet. I wondered similar things and felt we needed to understand the political shifts following ROTJ better. I think that would clear up some of the questions Plinkett had yet these political scenes are often pointed at as problems the prequels had

Edit: He's totally right about wanting a scene with Luke and Han. They were complete bros in the OT. Always risking their lives for one another. Drove me nuts Han died without a scene with Luke. Drove me nuts Luke disappeared and ducked out on his friends. I know VIII will have an answer, but like I said in my earlier post, I hated how this movie handled the OT characters.
 
I was expecting this to be much funnier given the build up, still I don't think it is terrible. There really is very little to criticize The Force Awakens on. Yes it is a throwback to the original, yes it does copy many of A New Hope's beats, and yes it was designed to be a "play it safe" movie that was made to win back the fan base while introducing new fans to the original trilogy lore. But the movie does as a whole on that foundation. There was really nothing offensive about it.

But I do nod my head in agreement of the yearly installments of Star Wars. I feel like it is going to be overkill within a few years and each passing film will be less of an event than the last.

One interesting think that Plinkett said (yeah I know he is a character) is that people who were born in the '70s and early '80s have a heavy nostalgia for Star Wars. As someone who was born in 1981, that is very much not true. I was two years old when Return of the Jedi was released in cinemas, and after that there were two Star War's animated series in 1985, Droids and Ewoks, which ran their course very quickly.

For me (and probably many others in my age group) the Star Wars franchise actually faded out of retail merchandise and went dormant for many years up until the mid '90s. I never owned Star Wars toys growing up because I couldn't find them anywhere in toy isles (outside of the shitty Ewok's toys) . The main toy line dried up not long after the third movie was released. I didn't see all three movies until the release of the VHS box set in 1994 (maybe?). The toys and merchandise didn't really come back in full force (no pun intended) until the release of the Special Edition's in cinema, which was about 1997. Then Star Wars went full throttle with the merchandising after the announcement of the prequel trilogies. By that time I was in my late teens.

I can totally see Star Wars being part of any person's childhood who was born in the '70s or even before that. But for me, not really. The nostalgia was really never there. My childhood was Transformers, MASK, Real Ghostbusters and Ninja Turtles.

And I don't have any nostalgia for the prequel trilogy either as I wasn't a kid when I watched them, and I thought they were shit.
 
The First Order criticism doesn't make sense in the context of Plinkett. He has expressed criticism of the notion that defeating General Grievous would end the war; why would it be that Palpatine would cause the Empire to crumble? Isn't it a pretty likely assumption that without a leader, the powers regrouped?
 
I know most weren't into the first half but his salient points were about the industry and the audience these days. I would've preferred he stuck to that and kept Star Wars 7 talk brief.
 
The First Order criticism doesn't make sense in the context of Plinkett. He has expressed criticism of the notion that defeating General Grievous would end the war; why would it be that Palpatine would cause the Empire to crumble? Isn't it a pretty likely assumption that without a leader, the powers regrouped?
Is this a book thing where they go into how the old Empire split in half after the Emperor died and the First Order still has billions of people working to support their military industrial complex? Did the Imperial Forces have some kind of civil war where half of them chose to join the Republic and the other half went off to be evil? Because that'd probably be a more interesting movie to make than just revisiting A New Hope with Rogue One. lol
 
I gotta say though, I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned the tranny-reference.

I did

Is this a book thing where they go into how the old Empire split in half after the Emperor died and the First Order still has billions of people working to support their military industrial complex? Did the Imperial Forces have some kind of civil war where half of them chose to join the Republic and the other half went off to be evil? Because that'd probably be a more interesting movie to make than just revisiting A New Hope with Rogue One. lol

I wanna say that the expanded universe did continue to operate without Palpatine, but yeah, the logical conclusion for me is that the First Order represents the Empire - perhaps neutered compared to where it was, but more extremist than ever.
 
Fun to watch the whole thing. Watched in one sitting, and laughed at comments from angry star wars fans in the middle of it. Very fun :p
 
I wanna say that the expanded universe did continue to operate without Palpatine, but yeah, the logical conclusion for me is that the First Order represents the Empire - perhaps neutered compared to where it was, but more extremist than ever.
Well, the EU is dead outside of the few new books that they released in the last few years so none of that stuff with Thrawn or Daala matters I guess.

But as someone who just watched the movie, the only context you get is the opening crawl about what happened. They don't show normal people who, for whatever reason, want to live in a fascist society and are more than happy to spend all their tax money and resources on building a super death star that once again gets destroyed.
 
He basically says that because Star Wars doesn't take place in a world where racial discrimination exists (unlike Star Trek), it doesn't have any obligation to be diverse. Which... again like I said, is a pretty flimsy excuse.
I don't think he does? He just brings up Star Trek as doing it first and then talks about the author's inspiration of doing so. Because he never stops fucking talking about Star Trek.

His discussion on the diversity part is that he didn't think children of color felt excluded from Star Wars before The Force Awakens, and that it was ultimately pointless to everybody except for racists and "people who are obsessed with diversity", which I think are probably ignorant points worth criticizing but then again I'm obsessed with diversity so.
 
A lot of the points made in the videos felt contradictory and nonsensical, almost especially near the end with diversity and SEX

The diversity complaining was almost especially nonsensical i think. It was like Mike had a problem with it but didnt want to upset anyone because he couldnt think of a good argument for it.

It was pretty funny at least? Oddly enough i enjoyed the first part of the video more than the actual review.
 
They've done this before?!
To be fair, the plinkett reviews of the prequels, the Star Trek films, and the hypothetical fourth Indiana Jones movie earned their lengths because there was plenty of stuff to talk about to fill out their run time.

The problem here is that there clearly wasn't enough to talk about, so we got an hour of filler (which admittedly had good stuff in it) leading into the actual review that was largely a few talking points stretched out way too long to fill out the other 50 minutes.
 
30 minutes in and this review is kinda boring so far. Guess he needs to target the Disney Star Wars acquisition to pad out the review since the movie wasn't bad.
 
The fucking trailer for the Plinkett review was funnier than the Plinkett review. What an odd world.

I think his point re: the First Order is not that we needed long scenes of political dialogue, just that the exact relationship everyone occupied relative to everyone else, and what the fighting was actually about, was not adequately explained.
 
It's too bad RLM couldn't have waited for this trilogy to finish so that there would be more to discuss, similar to the Prequel reviews. But even then I think most of us knew this review wouldn't have been as entertaining as the Prequel reviews, simply because those movies had much more material to make fun of. The Star Wars Universe/Internet fan/Disney criticisms should have been their own series of reviews.
 
The fucking trailer for the Plinkett review was funnier than the Plinkett review. What an odd world.

I think his point re: the First Order is not that we needed long scenes of political dialogue, just that the exact relationship everyone occupied relative to everyone else, and what the fighting was actually about, was not adequately explained.

They could have stood to elaborate that Snoke and others filled the power vacuum in an aimless empire; you could have Hux say something like, "once Palpatine died, we were aimless, a single defeat away from falling apart. Without Snoke, we would have faded into history."
 
It's a bit underwhelming but really not a whole lot can be said about The Force Awakens that hasn't already been discussed to death.

My only major problem with Plinkett shitting on the Ring Theory is not pointing out how having parallels to past work doesn't immediately make that specific work good. Just because something is "connected" thematically doesn't mean it's some work of genius. There has to be a level of quality to even be associated with genius storytelling and the prequels are severely lacking in that department.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom