TheHollowNight
Member
Ok the dance puppeteer stuff made me cry with laughter. As Jeff said, I hope more VR developers embrace the weird goofy shit you can only do with a headset/motion controls
Giant Bomb PSVR stream | It's always Summer in PlayStation VR Nation
- Thread starter Death Metalist
- Start date
all VR. And all gaming too.
The fault would lie with Sony actually if indeed the tech is truly faulty.
Are you sure? What if instead it was Giant Bomb's fault.
Makes sense to me.
Yeah. It's the only gaming website worth reading, didn't you hear?
Like Metallica, nothing else matters.
All the other new and past positive impressions are too little too late, like Jojo.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Indeed. I'm still not in the same league as haters though. Impressive job today.
Specifically Dan Ryckert. When in doubt, blame Dan Ryckert, that's what I always say.
That luge game seemed to be working fine until he tried it. You're probably right.
Wait... so the PS4 stands to the left behind him? Didn't notice that in the short time I visited the stream, because that part was hidden by the overlay. But skipping through quickly it looks like that has been the case all the time. With the camera cord being not exactly super long, it makes me wonder where it was positioned.
Eurogamer clearly said they had tracking issues only when you leave the sweet spot, which sadly isn't nearly as large as the play area image flooding around suggested. That lets me assume GB simply didn't put much effort into camera placement, and that caused the issues.
Boy, this damn GB who doesn't know how to set up the mass market easy to use out of the box VR HMD.
At some point they measured the distance with a measuring tape to sit exactly at 5 feet.
No. That is the PS4 unit attached to Brad's PSVR. Jeff's camera was directly ahead of him.
Over 100,000 people watched the Giant Bomb PSVR live stream, I think this represents a problem for Sony, and I certainly hope they do something about getting in touch with the team to find out why the tracking was so bad during that stream, because it made the device look unusable.
I've since watched streams from Game Informer, Eurogamer and Gamespot, and the issues seem to be restricted to slight jitter and sensor drift (the latter is bizarre considering the system supports inside out positional tracking). All this would seem to indicate the severity of the issues the GB team experienced are not par for the course, at least, I hope so. We'll know for sure soon enough.
I've since watched streams from Game Informer, Eurogamer and Gamespot, and the issues seem to be restricted to slight jitter and sensor drift (the latter is bizarre considering the system supports inside out positional tracking). All this would seem to indicate the severity of the issues the GB team experienced are not par for the course, at least, I hope so. We'll know for sure soon enough.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I haven't watched their stream but I've seen gifs and if the rest is anything like their press conference coverage I wouldn't be surprised.
They're kinda dicks tbh
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Grinchy
Banned
The stream looked pretty bad in a lot of cases. One of them kept saying that it reminded them of how bad the tracking was back on PS3 Move, though. That shit was flawless for me. I'll stay hopeful that my home experience with PSVR will fare better than theirs, but if the tracking is that fucked for me, it's getting sold.
You're in a league of your own tbh. If you're not getting paid you need to take a deep look at why you are so defensive over gaming devices.
Pretty sure you completely missed the point of his post, but that's alright. Apparently GB are the only ones who had problems. Oh wait...
kotaku- drift, judder, and calibration issues
"If youve never tried either of those two headsets, youll probably be more immediately impressed. You wont notice the funky head tracking. You wont mind that your in-game hands are constantly stuttering. You wont be as put off by the blurry graphics or frame-rate dips."
"The camera does a middling job of tracking your heads movement, and sometimes when Id move more than a foot or two in any direction, I would find that the whole screen would freeze and shake"
"Weirdly, Ive found that some games begin to rotate ever so slightly to the left or right as I play, an annoyance that the Options button appears powerless to fix. At one point my Battlezone cockpit rotated until I was sitting at an angle on my couch, seemingly unable to make the game point me back forward. It wasnt until I started a new game that it went back to normal."
gamespot- drift, judder, and camera problems
"While theres a lot to like about PSVR, it also has several of issues. The PlayStation Camera can encompass a max 6.2x9-foot play area, but I noticed that when I stood more than eight feet away from the camera, I experienced a very unpleasant visual jittery effect, as if the camera had started to lose depth perception. Even at closer ranges, I noticed the DualShock controller in front of me start to jitter, though it happened to a lesser extent. Getting too close to the camera, however, also presents problems."
Roadtovr- drift and judder
"And while the system works well enough for a solid VR experience, it performs notably worse than the tracking we see on the Rift and Vive, and may be PSVRs biggest downside in an otherwise impressive system.
Face-on, the headsets tracking is decent, but it has a visibly apparent jitter inside that will make you feel a little wobbly from time to time, especially for standing experiences. For the most part, the tracking quality is good enough that I wasnt getting nauseas in the headset, which is good, but you should feel your balance sway a bit here and there, especially when theres nearfield objects floating close by
Curiously, despite also using an outside-in tracking system, Ive still seen a fair share of drift of Playstation VR. The good news is that Sony has made it easy to reset at any time by holding the Options button for a few seconds (however some apps seem to only treat that reset as a positional calibration and not a rotational recentering).
Why it drift happens in the first place on PSVR though is a bit of a mystery to me. I havent been able to put my finger on it just yet, but it seems to happen worse in some experiences than others; ."
Eurogamer apparently had to swap a headset as well as giant bomb. The majority of the reviews, while positive, mention issues with drift, judder, and calibration in general. This is easily cause for concern, sorry if you're not happy about that.
Sidewinder
Member
Same here, PSMove was near flawless on PS3, but I had drifiting problems in Time Crisis Razing Storm, was blatant when aiming with the gun at the screen. AFAIR it only really affected one of the games on the disc, I think it was the pirate game, maybe it's a software problem?
ScaryShark
Banned
No way, this happened on every game for me disc or dl. I plat'd sports champions, start the party, and dead space extraction or w.e it was called. I played through that movie light gun game, time crisis, and a couple others. Drift was a guarantee in every game. You could actually manipulate which way it drifted by swiping the move controller in a certain direciton. I have no idea what caused it, but it was constant.
Those sound like in the eurogamer review, issues caused by leaving the somewhat tiny camera sweetspot.
What about all the other positive reviews where no complaints were given. Are you going to highlight those for us also??
Could it be a firmware problem? The GB guys said they had no issues playing Super Hyper Cube a month ago.Those sound like in the eurogamer review, issues caused by leaving the somewhat tiny camera sweetspot.
What about all the other positive reviews where no complaints were given. Are you going to highlight those for us also??
chromatic9
Member
At least we know Jeff has got real time in on the Rift and Vive. Watch the VR rodeos they do, Jeff is practically Billy Elliot with the Vive. I get the sense that other outlets never got into the PC VR and are maybe reporting more positively not having a reference point but some do still say judder and drift. Jeff is going to be very sensitive to anything not as good or less than perfect units.
Also Jeff was having fun with Superhypercube a few weeks back, please go watch it.
Also Jeff was having fun with Superhypercube a few weeks back, please go watch it.
Those sound like in the eurogamer review, issues caused by leaving the somewhat tiny camera sweetspot.
What about all the other positive reviews where no complaints were given. Are you going to highlight those for us also??
I just highlighted 4 reviews and as I said there were plenty more I didn't list... you also just mentioned eurogamer which makes 5, and its hilarious that you think it's no big deal the sweet spot is "tiny". These all sound like well-known well documented issues with the move technology we've known since the wands came up and now it's happening with the headset.
Apparently if something has good reviews it doesn't matter if there are a significant amount of negatives? That everything just magically disappears? Because for me when there is a known issue with something, it's disappointing, especially when you're investing significant money like this.
I'll bite though, let's play your game. Highlight the reviews for me where they say the tracking is fantastic. How many can you find? I can find you probably 10 maybe even more reviews (even overall positive ones), that say the tracking is pretty weak.
Sidewinder
Member
Wow, ok, that really sucks then. Hmm I'll have to think hard until next week if I really want to spend 400 for that device.
Did you by any chance use the move on PS4 and tried to provoke drifting?
I don't want you to think I'm talking about ps4 here, I'm talking about years ago. If people think I'm lying here I can make videos. This was a very real issue I and my gf had. At the time we lived separately and we tried at both houses. There were occasional times where we could keep it decent for extended times, but drift was a constant concern no doubt.
The drift of the Move controllers wouldn't change on the PS4, I don't think. The IMUs of the controllers haven't changed, and the newer camera doesn't really have any new data to offer to the tracking system either because it's just a single tracking point (and a spherical one at that).
Sidewinder
Member
Makes sense, thanks.
bender
What time is it?
Just finished watching the special. As much as I want to try SuperHyperCube and Rez, I think I'm going to pass on this. It will be interesting to see if Sony can fix the drift/judder issues but I'm not sure the re-calibration issues with the Move controllers can be solved.
I don't think it can, because as I said it's always been an issue. To the likely paid employee who continues to cite the positive reviews- even the positive reviews and impressions over the months have acknowledged that while the wands are adequate, they're dated and limited. Seems weird sony stuck with those, but they likely had warehouses full of em.
bender
What time is it?
Re-purposing the Move was definitely a cost saving measure due to R&D alone and maybe that's the only way the could release the solution on that $399/$499 price points. It does seem like it's going to hamstring an otherwise well designed product.
That's what's really disheartening about it, because the actual hardware of the hmd itself is receiving glowing reviews. It's really comfy, it's sleek, the adjustments are super easy and very customizable, the display is very close to rift and vive in quality, etc. the problem is VR relies heavily on accuracy of headtracking. Hell VR developers, enthusiasts, and even sony heavily stressed how crucial ROCK solid 60FPS nothing less was to a good experience. Not only do some of the games apparently have frame rate issues, but drift is a very common mention in these reviews. I don't understand how this could possibly happen with them knowing how crucial that is to a legitimate VR experience.
Yeah, but it's understandable. Just look at Vive and Rift how much it costs to have a better tracking solution and controllers. Sony wanted a good price to not make it just a niche.
bender
What time is it?
Pardon the ignorance but do the Vive and Rift use cameras for tracking as well?
yes they do.
Nah I disagree from my understanding the tracking tech isn't what kept it cheaper. I mean sure they saved on the R&D front, and it also allows them to repurpose and make use of all the money they burned on move, but overall the actual displays themselves on the rift and vive are the more expensive parts, not to mention sony is a hardware manufacturer so they get the leg up there on cost cutting as well.
MarkMclovin
Member
So don't get PSVR just yet then?
Got it.
Got it.
this all comes down to sony using leds for tracking and not IR, IR wouldnt have cost much more but it wouldve meant the old PSEye wouldnt work with the headset or wands/ds4 as the old camera probably has an IR filter
sony has sacrificed accuracy for the sole purpose of being able to say "VR STARTING AT $400!" or however much it is over there
travisbickle
Member
Well not for the sole purpose of being able to say that, but also for the purpose of being able to sell it at that price.
Again I don't buy that as the reason, at least not in that manner. As I said above the R&D likely saved them a ton of money and time, and it also allowed them to get a boost to catch up with the other companies that had a headstart on them. Regardless I'm amazed that they weren't able to pin down why move failed- not as a product, but from a technical standpoint. The original wands experienced all of the issues that the headset now appears to be experiencing (and apparently the DS4 is actually the worst when it comes to tracking). Weird that they didn't have the foresight to see that.
which is a shit storm since accuracy is VERY important in VR unless you want people falling over the upchucking over small children
Vive uses a lighthouse system. You have 2 lighthouses that emit lasers across the room at certain intervals of time and the sensors are on the headset (and any tracked object, like a controller). This makes possible a very exact calculation of the position in space for the tracked objects and a very low latency. There are also a lot of things in place to counter the drift and jitter.
This was one of the interesting reads about how it works, I don't know if maybe there are better articles now:
http://doc-ok.org/?p=1478
Rift uses an infrared camera and also a magnetometer, a gyroscope and an accelerometer for correction. It seems to do a much better position calculation than PSVR's camera.
Nah, just look how much the Touch controllers cost (which is pretty in line with the difference between Vive's and Rift's cost at launch). Imagine needing to add $100 - $150 on top of PSVR only for that.
But again I'm not talking about the move wands or "touch controllers", I'm talking about the headtracking itself, which from my understanding rift uses IR and woudn't really be too different in terms of price.