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DF Retro: Metroid Prime - Nintendo's first-person masterpiece
- Thread starter Broken Joystick
- Start date
Getting the Space Jump as soon as you touch down on Tallon IV is always a treat.
facetheslayer92
Member
Watched the video, thought it was great. If you haven't played this game you're seriously missing out. Its like 25 hours of pure bliss.
I don't think losing staff from the Prime games will hurt that bad. As long as the people that are still there were big enough fans to understand what made those games work. I mean they didn't have any staff that worked on DKC but they were huge fans and had the time and resources to make it work.
metalslimer
Member
Great video. Still my 2nd favorite game of all time. I really hope they release an HD version Switch.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Another area of study are the story changes between NTSC and PAL/Trilogy releases. I don't understand what considerations went into the decision to change the log entries so dramatically in subsequent releases.
The result of the changes is a complete retcon of the origins of the Metroid Prime organism. In the NTSC release, it was a Metroid from Zebes taken by the Space Pirates to Talon IV, and escaped into the Talon crater. It snuck through failures in the Chozo defense field, found itself in the core of the Phazon core, and gorged, eventually mutated into sentience.
In all subsequent releases, the Metroid Prime organism existed on Phaaze thousands of years ago, and found itself within the Phazon Leviathan that was launched into the surface of Talon IV. Sealed behind the Chozo force defense field, it mutated for millenia, becoming the sentient and near-immortal Metroid entity that Samus discovers in the climax of the game. Until this point, it had not encountered anyone, as in this version of the story, the Chozo defense field had no intergrity failures. The thousands of years of Phazon exposure granted the creature horrific powers, including the ability to reconstitute physical form from the slightest gathering of Phazon molecules.
The sequels back up the revised story arch, as an ancient variant of the Metroid Prime exoskeleton is found on Phaaze, a nod to the creature's ancient origins.
EDIT - just to add, I prefer the revised origin story - it hints of far more space opera.
The result of the changes is a complete retcon of the origins of the Metroid Prime organism. In the NTSC release, it was a Metroid from Zebes taken by the Space Pirates to Talon IV, and escaped into the Talon crater. It snuck through failures in the Chozo defense field, found itself in the core of the Phazon core, and gorged, eventually mutated into sentience.
In all subsequent releases, the Metroid Prime organism existed on Phaaze thousands of years ago, and found itself within the Phazon Leviathan that was launched into the surface of Talon IV. Sealed behind the Chozo force defense field, it mutated for millenia, becoming the sentient and near-immortal Metroid entity that Samus discovers in the climax of the game. Until this point, it had not encountered anyone, as in this version of the story, the Chozo defense field had no intergrity failures. The thousands of years of Phazon exposure granted the creature horrific powers, including the ability to reconstitute physical form from the slightest gathering of Phazon molecules.
The sequels back up the revised story arch, as an ancient variant of the Metroid Prime exoskeleton is found on Phaaze, a nod to the creature's ancient origins.
EDIT - just to add, I prefer the revised origin story - it hints of far more space opera.
Really informative video and digital foundry retro is awesome indeed. Metroid Prime may very well be my favourite game on Gamecube.
It is a shame though, that we will never see what Gamecube (and Xbox, for that matter) were really capable of graphically. Yes RE4 was beautiful, but I feel like development costs, low capacity disc, and/or releasing before christmas in 2004 caused them to just lower the resolution, hitting a quite stable 30FPS instead of optomising to the last bit of juice Gamecube might have had left. Then again, it was probably the right choise, as Gamecube (and Xbox) where pretty short-lived, certainly gamecube, support wise, due to them lauching late and successors being announced relatively early thus have a quite small user installed base.
For example, if you compare it to other graphically impressive games (Metroid Prime, Star fox adventures, Rebel Strike) they all run full resolution, some widescreen, and @60fps. I just imagine what for example Rare could have done with their second title @ 30fps. Or even factor 5 with a last title also @ 30fps. I guess we will never know.
Which brings me to a point of critisism towards a lot of Nintendo's first party studios; most of them where just developed with the graphics, while certainly not bad, looking ''just good enough'' (double dash, mario sports games, fire emblem, wave race etc.).
Now, this all seems a little too negative, but to me it was just a little sad that the Gamecube is Nintendo's system with the most unrealized potential (internet, graphics, marketing, time on market, sales and 3rd paryt support/multiplatforms, cable output). Still my favourtite console though.
Anyways, excited for the next DFretro technical analysis.
It is a shame though, that we will never see what Gamecube (and Xbox, for that matter) were really capable of graphically. Yes RE4 was beautiful, but I feel like development costs, low capacity disc, and/or releasing before christmas in 2004 caused them to just lower the resolution, hitting a quite stable 30FPS instead of optomising to the last bit of juice Gamecube might have had left. Then again, it was probably the right choise, as Gamecube (and Xbox) where pretty short-lived, certainly gamecube, support wise, due to them lauching late and successors being announced relatively early thus have a quite small user installed base.
For example, if you compare it to other graphically impressive games (Metroid Prime, Star fox adventures, Rebel Strike) they all run full resolution, some widescreen, and @60fps. I just imagine what for example Rare could have done with their second title @ 30fps. Or even factor 5 with a last title also @ 30fps. I guess we will never know.
Which brings me to a point of critisism towards a lot of Nintendo's first party studios; most of them where just developed with the graphics, while certainly not bad, looking ''just good enough'' (double dash, mario sports games, fire emblem, wave race etc.).
Now, this all seems a little too negative, but to me it was just a little sad that the Gamecube is Nintendo's system with the most unrealized potential (internet, graphics, marketing, time on market, sales and 3rd paryt support/multiplatforms, cable output). Still my favourtite console though.
Anyways, excited for the next DFretro technical analysis.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Wii says hi.
Wii is a little more powerful, but some developers did push the system pretty hard. Super Mario Galaxy threw every trick the system as capable of on screen. I remember playing the game for the first time after seeing Crysis and was still blown away by the graphics.
Yes, but wii got an overclock of 50% among other things such as ram increasement. Imagine what Factor 5 could have done on wii. Look at Rebel strike; I think it outdoes Mario Galaxy in several areas (geometry, scale, crazy techniques such as self-shadowing). On top of that it was all (with roque leader included as 2player co-op) on a 1.5GB disc with sound quality/design being superb as well. How is that possible? I am still impressed by Rebel Stike on multiple levels to this day and it is a real shame factor 5 is no longer around.
Pharaoh 117
Member
The only Metroid game I've ever played. And I love it. I remember renting the game for a week and finishing it back in 2002. And what a week it was. Amazing game.
Prime's texture UV maps were only 256 x 256? I had no idea. For some reason I held the idea in my head it used 512 x 512. But given now how much geometry could be on screen, loading textures that big would be problematic performance wise. Cool!
I love learning more about Prime, it's my favorite game of all time. From a technical aspect I only really knew a small handful of details.
I love learning more about Prime, it's my favorite game of all time. From a technical aspect I only really knew a small handful of details.
kunonabi
Member
I'm not a fan of fps's and I could never make it all that far in Turok due to the level design but I loved just popping that game in and playing it. It just felt RIGHT to move and fight.
Now I want a video on Prime 2, because I'm damn sure the textures look noticably better in it, it also mostly ran at 60 FPS too. But so many cool additions to it graphically.
LordKasual
Banned
...If my opinion counts for shit posting, alright yeah sure whatever.
After what they did with Metroid and its lore, i'd have much rather seen Retro pursue some more original content along the same thread than just do Donkey Kong.
mattwhite924
Member
Great episode once again!
Metroid Prime and the Rogue Squadron games were the games that made me realize just how much of a powerhouse the GamceCube was at pushing polygons. What other consoles would do with texture detail or bump/normal maping, Prime did with real geometry. I also have read that Rogue Squadron 3 pushed more polys on screen than any other game that gen, I have no idea if that's really the case, but I can totally believe it.
Metroid Prime and the Rogue Squadron games were the games that made me realize just how much of a powerhouse the GamceCube was at pushing polygons. What other consoles would do with texture detail or bump/normal maping, Prime did with real geometry. I also have read that Rogue Squadron 3 pushed more polys on screen than any other game that gen, I have no idea if that's really the case, but I can totally believe it.
Blackpuppy
Member
Can dolphin display how many polygons are being shown on screen? If so I think you could run Rogue squadron 3 through it and you'll get your answer.
GrantDaNasty
Member
I've yet to ever finish Metroid Prime despite owning a copy of it myself on the Gamecube, but I really should try to wrap it up at some point, either on original hardware or by using Dolphin.
Metroid Prime is such a crazy game when you think about it, even 14 years later. An absolute masterpiece though, fully deserving of any and all accolades.
Metroid Prime is such a crazy game when you think about it, even 14 years later. An absolute masterpiece though, fully deserving of any and all accolades.
In the NTSC version, the Space Pirates found Metroid Prime while mining on Tallon IV. It wasn't a Metroid brought from Zebes.
The game still looks so good today, but as others have mentioned (and the video), the constant 60 fps is super immersive. Mark Haigh-Hutchinson was a fucking wizard.
I won't be happy in life until Nintendo releases an HD remaster of the entire Trilogy. Hopefully the Switch gives it to us.
I won't be happy in life until Nintendo releases an HD remaster of the entire Trilogy. Hopefully the Switch gives it to us.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Needs some next gen pop-ups to be able to hang with the big boys of today.
Movalpolos
Banned
I miss GC era NIntendo. Their last great console.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Ummm, people mocked the GC for being underpowered back in the day. To this day, there are people that thinks the PS2 is more powerful than the GC.
On paper, the specs were very modest.
evilromero
Member
Hold me. Best game ever.
So what?
Mama Robotnik
Member
You are right, I just checked the PAL and NTSC logbook entries.
I think I got a bit confused, because in the NTSC version, the Space Pirates were somehow able to get the organism into containment, and it gorged upon their mined Phazon and stole their weapons to create its exoskeleton, before retreating back into the core. In PAL, the organism has been imprisoned in the Phazon Core for millenia.
RareFantasy64
Member
The Metroid Prime Trilogy has so many amazing locations. I think Phendarana Drift, Torvus Bog and Skytown are my favorites
LordOcidax
Member
This game and Rogue Squadron have some impresive ligthing effects (Lasers beam iluminating the terrain is amazing), even today this game is really impresive, some little details are amazing too. Master Piece. BTW, i think that the Wii version loss some graphics effects in the process... So the GC version still the king.
Good looking game for sure, but I'm not sure I would call it a technical marvel. Seems to me they were able to maintain the frame rate by making smart compromises, and not trying to stretch the hardware too much.
Also, the wireframe view is nice and all, but I wonder how the triangle count actually compare to other games on the system.
Actually, I just took these shots of the first mission in rogue leader.
I wish I had a save with the bespin level unlocked. That one has tons of geometry.
Sorry this one is low res.
Without numbers you can't really know how they compare, but it's still cool to see.
Also, the wireframe view is nice and all, but I wonder how the triangle count actually compare to other games on the system.
Actually, I just took these shots of the first mission in rogue leader.
I wish I had a save with the bespin level unlocked. That one has tons of geometry.
Sorry this one is low res.
Without numbers you can't really know how they compare, but it's still cool to see.
It loses three things: beam weapon effects (Ice Beam freezing over, Wave Beam emitting sparks, etc.), the arm cannon smoking when fired too much, and the water ripples. The first two are due to the effects being simple 2D images pasted on the screen, where the other Primes fully 3D model the particle effects. Don't know why the ripples were removed.
The Wii version added subtle bloom lighting, widescreen, and faster load times. The benefits are more noticeable in Prime 2, though.
MrCunningham
Member
This is what happens when a developer prioritizes for 60fps. But then again, the Gamecube had some really good looking games that ran at 60fps. Rogue Squadron 2 ran at a non-consistent 60fps, and was one of the best looking games of that generation. F-Zero GX was also a real doozy as well.
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Sorry this one is low res.
Without numbers you can't really know how they compare, but it's still cool to see.
I remember being really impressed back in the day by the sheer number of polygons that the Star Destroyer engines could display when you got up close to them.
I wish the video focused on game design rather than technical specifications. Metroid Prime is not brilliant because it has a good framerate. It's brilliant because of the beautiful, intertwining balance of world design, gameplay, atmosphere, art direction, and audio. Each element builds upon and interacts with the other to a degree of excellence that has never again been achieved. Texture maps and wireframes are kind of neat I guess, but I'd like a deconstruction of design theory.
That said I don't follow this channel, so maybe he's not trying to do anything other than take notes on some tech specs.
That said I don't follow this channel, so maybe he's not trying to do anything other than take notes on some tech specs.
Digital Foundry is entirely about specs.
The channel is exclusively about specs and performance.
Digital Foundry is a technology focused channel.
Awesome video. I really want a modern 3D Metroid, man :/
DF generally focuses on the technical side of things. They will comment briefly on design and such, but their thing is mainly technical performance, spec analysis, etc.
Edit: ninja'd... sorry for dogpile responding
DF generally focuses on the technical side of things. They will comment briefly on design and such, but their thing is mainly technical performance, spec analysis, etc.
Edit: ninja'd... sorry for dogpile responding
InsaneLuchador
Member
I remember driving to the next county to pick up a copy on launch day. I took it home and was only able to play for a while because I thought I was either sick or tired. It took me a few days to realize Metroid Prime gave me motion sickness -- something no game has ever done. I tried playing it in short bursts but I began dreading the experience. I tried playing it again a few years later but it was the same result. It still gets me a little down sometimes when people discuss how much they love this game because I wasn't able to experience it the same way.
hans_castorp
Member
Amazing game.
Still looks and plays better than many games this generation,
Artstyle and atmosphere always prevail over polycount and effects.
Still looks and plays better than many games this generation,
Artstyle and atmosphere always prevail over polycount and effects.