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[Peter Ian Staker]

OT is fine as it is. It is self contained and gives you all the story you need to know (unlike the PT).
Rogue One is just supplementary content.There is nothing on it that you need to know to see ANH that isn't in ANH's opening crawl (not even the death star design retcon)

 

[cj_iwakura]

I found both Disney SWs boring and forgettable.

This is how I felt about TFA, but Rogue One is legit. That team understood SW. Fleet battles. GOAT.

 

[Foggy]

Rey grabbing the lightsaber absolutely is the emotional climax of the film. We're following her from the beginning of the film and her realization of the Force is the entire premise of the film. It's literally the title.

Being emotionally connected to Han Solo's death works because, guess what? He's been a well written and performed character in this series. Rogue One could have used some characters like that before they all got killed.

The mechanics of the plot and character development is what is supposed to give weight to that moment, not the premise or title. It may be intended to be the emotional crescendo but it's totally eclipsed by the weight and impact of Solo's death. That same weight and impact isn't reflected on our protagonists. Having that reflected adds emotional weight to the film, but instead we got nostalgic manipulation. It doesn't kill the film but it is a flaw.

well han did become a father-like figure to rey in their short time together so he was something more to her than just a famous guy

I definitely felt more emotion when rey pulled that saber though. han dying was an "oh shit" moment whereas rey pulling the saber was the culmination of her character arc for that film. definitely the emotional climax of the film. you'll remember that she freaked the fuck out after her vision and wanted nothing to do with that saber back at maz's place. plus the way that scene is framed. you see kylo ren trying to call for it, it budging a little bit, and then it comes out of the snow and goes flying right past ren's head to land in rey's hands. if there's a single moment to take away from tfa that's the one.

I can understand you can be exhilerated by the lightsaber moment, but c'mon, Han Solo was not a father figure to Rey. If he is, that's the most limp noodle father figure in cinema.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Agree completely. I wanted to pop in ANH immediately after RO ended. Lol at people getting all worked up at the thought of one of their precious original movies getting enhanced by a prequel.

 

[zethren]

Agree completely. I wanted to pop in ANH immediately after RO ended. Lol at people getting all worked up at the thought of one of their precious original movies dare get enhanced by a prequel.

Something I loved was that the ending of RO is probably a mere minutes from the start of ANH.

 

[aerts1js]

It's a fantastic movie.

 

[VAD]

I agree, the movie added weight to what Luke&Co were fighting against. The proton torpedoes shot in the exhaustion port are even more satisfying now.

 

[Snkfanatic]

I don't care who did the movies lol. They were both boring. Boring. Boring. Boring.

Yikes.

 

[JB1981]

Some of the dialogue and dialogue pacing in the first 30 mins was very very awkward, bordering on cringe worthy at times. Like someone forgot their lines and got shown cue cards from behind the curtains.

Shades of grey? Was that just a bunch of guys on the runway telling us that they had all done terrible things?

The ret-con was cool, but I wouldn't really have cared if it existed or not. It connected up rather well though.

Vader's bit in the end was very very well done.

They should have just made the movie from the temple guardians' perspective. Make it a story of their survivor's guilt and their quest for a final glory.

How about Cassian mercing a guy to get intel in the beginning, Cassian also being ordered to assassinate Galen or when the Rebels think they lost comms with Cassian they order a bombing run on Galen's location? Those shades of grey I guess

 

[Lamel]

Agreed, great movie.

 

[HotHamBoy]

One of the best films ever made.

Oh wow...

 

[The Hermit]

The hyperbole is strong with this one, and I consider Rogue one as good as OT movies.

 

[TSM]

The biggest bummer about the whole film is that we already know the rebels get the plans going in. This robs the film of any real tension. The characters were completely bland and forgettable. It ended up being a heist movie, and as far as heist movies go this was sub par to say the least. Adding the Star Wars branding on a sub par heist movie doesn't suddenly make it a good heist movie.

Having said that I did enjoy all the fan service. All the visual throwbacks to the OT were fun.

 

[Glass Rebel]

The hyperbole is strong with this one, and I consider Rogue one as good as OT movies.

Everything is hyperbole...

 

[phanphare]

The mechanics of the plot and character development is what is supposed to give weight to that moment, not the premise or title. It may be intended to be the emotional crescendo but it's totally eclipsed by the weight and impact of Solo's death. That same weight and impact isn't reflected on our protagonists. Having that reflected adds emotional weight to the film, but instead we got nostalgic manipulation. It doesn't kill the film but it is a flaw.

I can understand you can be exhilerated by the lightsaber moment, but c'mon, Han Solo was not a father figure to Rey. If he is, that's the most limp noodle father figure in cinema.

I think you might need to re-watch TFA ;p

and yes, he was something of a father figure for rey in their short time together. you can see their relationship build through every interaction they share. from him being impressed with her knowledge of the millenium falcon to her reaction when he wants her to join him and chewie. he's only a famous guy to her when they first meet and then their relationship builds until his death. it's all there for the watching

and the saber pull is the emotional climax. the literal turning point of the movie as rey had been hiding from her destiny up until that point. han dying was just an "oh shit" moment, like I said before.

 

[Starsunder]

Probably my second favorite Star Wars movie after ESB.

Absolutely loved it. Showed a side to the rebellion that you've never seen before, it made the war seem like something that was truly tearing the galaxy apart rather than just hearing about it, and has some of, if not THE best battle scenes in the entire saga. It also explains the apparent weakness of the Death Star in a convincing manner, and and makes the victory of the rebels in ANH that much more meaningful.

Loved it, loved it, loved it.

 

[exmachina64]

This opinion is garbage. Rogue was decent, but story was NOT interesting at all. The films purpose was clear, but I feel that they could have been more creative with coming up with a plot for the film. There weren't many characters you could care for because of the lack of development, the minimal dialogue they had, or because the overall flat performances. The standouts for me were some of the actions scenes, the humor provided by the droid, and Vader scenes.

If only all opinions had this preface.

 

[Inyourprime]

I agree. I thought it was excellent and I am planning on seeing it again. I haven't sat down to watch ANH again but it was on my mind after finishing RO.

 

[The Hermit]

Everything is hyperbole...

To be honest a movie explaining why the death Star had such a glaring Weak spot is pretty awesome and, like I said before, this movie is a love letter to OT Star Wars fans.

Also, it shows how weak ep VII and how dumb the starkiller thing was.

 

[Foggy]

I think you might need to re-watch TFA ;p

LOL, I'm good.

You need to watch more movies that actually pull off what you think this movie does.

 

[phanphare]

LOL, I'm good.

ha, ok I guess I can see how you could be mistaken now

You need to watch more movies that actually pull off what you think this movie does.

yeah I'll be sure to get on that. I'll start with Rogue One! ;p

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

This film chokes on its aspirations.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

But Rogue One doesn't just change A New Hope — the entire Original Trilogy now feels far more like a desperate struggle to end a war that's claiming the lives of millions of people. And these people aren't necessarily innocent heroes either — as we learned when Cassian killed his informant in cold blood — but soldiers willing to do whatever they must to help the cause.

Huh? They blew up Alderaan which according to Wookiepedia had 2 billion people on it at the time. I don't understand how R1 could better establish just how dire things were than The Empire blowing up somebody's homeworld right in front of their face just to see how good their big laser works.

And we already established that rebels will do whatever it takes when this guy

kamikazi'd the Executor's bridge

As Luke watches the battle from the second Death Star, unable to help his fellow Rebels, we will know exactly what fighting this war is like.

 

[Timeaisis]

ANH is a good movie standing on it's own. I can't say the same for Rogue One. It was good, but if I didn't already love Star Wars I would've thought it was pretty average.

 

[whatsinaname]

How about Cassian mercing a guy to get intel in the beginning, Cassian also being ordered to assassinate Galen or when the Rebels think they lost comms with Cassian they order a bombing run on Galen's location? Those shades of grey I guess

Shooting an engineer building a death star and bombing an imperial facility is not "shades of grey". It is the rebellion doing what must be done. It just feels like shades of grey because as an audience we know Galen is the lead character's father. There is no conflict there.

If the rebellion/Saw kidnapped Jyn when she was a child to force Galen to go back into the Death Star to plant a weakness - that would be a shade of grey.

 

[The_blonde_and_blue]

Really? While I found the movie to be decent, it was still an un-needed prequel IMHO. If anything, it ruined the beginning of SW: ANH because why was Vader not like "Diplomatic mission? Biatch I JUST saw you!"

 

[Neff]

Didn't take long for this to become the new Skyfall, did it?

Skyfall was great though

 

[0ptimusPayne]

I absolutely agree that it gives ANH a lot more weight than what was already there. My girl and I just finished it up this morning, and the beginning made me smile just thinking about rogue one.

 

[tci]

I agree on this a lot.

As for the haters, you will never be pleased by anything ever. So no point in arguing with them.

- The movie gives a much deeper connection to the original story. I watched ANH after RO and the beginning is a lot stronger because of it. Even the briefing at the end is much stronger because of the movie. This connection isn't stronger because the movie is good, but rather we now know their sacrifices getting those plans.

- I can agree somewhat that the characters isn't as good as they could have been. But it would have been almost twice as long. I would've loved that personally, but the main audience would not. An extended cut would have been great to have. Not sure if we can get it. Still I think most of the characters are good. I think the main issue here is that the characters aren't spoon fed to the audience. You really have to put yourself into their shoes to get a good connection with them. The movie isn't really strong at conveying them.

- As for Darth Vader. He was perfect in this. And making him not the focus of the movie was done well. Any longer screen time might have hurt the movie I think. When he turns on his blade there are two audiences for the scene. Those who knows Darth Vader, and those unfamiliar to who he is. And within 60s Vader is explained and shown off for both audiences. Brilliant.

- And then we have the fleet battles. This is the first properly scaled and handled battle since RoTJ. In addition you introduce the fighter squadrons. Giving the entire final battle in ANH even more meaning.

All in all RO gives ANH a better understanding and emotional connection with the rebels. With a better look at the empire and fear of Darth Vader.

 

[The Scollard]

Oh my god. This is absolutely hilarious. I couldn't disagree more with their reasoning. Rogue One was dull, and I think its retcons make the original trilogy worse.

It was just a whole lot of wasted potential that seemed to cram in as much OT fanservice as it could (some of it made sense, like X-Wings and TIE Fighters, but we didn't need CGI Grand Moff Tarkin or CGI Princess Leia or the C3PO/R2-D2 cameo or the cameo from the Cantina guys), and it just ruined the movie for me. I liked the different types of planets they went to, Scarif looked pretty awesome, but some of them we barely spent any time on, which made them boring, like that Imperial Prison Camp Planet or Eidu. The action in the last part was fun, but it's not required at all for ANH and telling the story just didn't feel necessary, since I knew the outcome, and I didn't care about any of the characters, so I didn't care if they would make it out or not. I don't think it improves the entire trilogy at all.

 

[Anth0ny]

It definitely improves ANH. Works super well as part one to ANH's part two.

Unlike the prequels, which actively made the original trilogy worse in pretty much every way.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Shooting an engineer building a death star and bombing an imperial facility is not "shades of grey". It is the rebellion doing what must be done. It just feels like shades of grey because as an audience we know Galen is the lead character's father. There is no conflict there.

If the rebellion/Saw kidnapped Jyn when she was a child to force Galen to go back into the Death Star to plant a weakness - that would be a shade of grey.

I like how you totally ignored Cassian murdering a disabled man in the first 5 minutes. If that's not a "shade of grey', I don't know what is. And they DID kidnap Jyn essentially in the "rescue" for intel on her father's location, while lying to her face in hopes to assassinate him.

 

[whatsinaname]

I like how you totally ignored Cassian murdering a disabled man in the first 5 minutes. If that's not a "shade of grey', I don't know what is. And they DID kidnap Jyn essentially in the "rescue" for intel on her father's location, while lying to her face in hopes to asssinate him.

I ignored it because it was a minor point compared to the Galen issue JB brought up. The "disabled man" was what, a Death Star employee selling information to the rebellion? That's a shade of grey for a Disney kid's movie. Not for a Star Wars type of movie.

And didn't they mainly try to use Jyn just to get an introduction to Saw and to get to that pilot?

While you may think I am being dismissive of these plot points, I feel these things don't give the morality of the rebellion the gravitas that you think it does.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Rogue One is objectively a great movie. That's simple fact and I'm sorry for anyone that can't realize it.

 

[funkystudent]

I kinda think Disney are just till proving to people "look we can totally make Star Wars that doesn't fuck with the Star Wars you like. See... we are totally better then those darn prequels ya'll hate so much"

EP7 basically being A New Hope remake and and Rogue One being a page from Wookiepedia come to life feel like calculated ICBM's right to the heart of nostalgia first fandom

Maybe in a few years they will start getting risky and the OG trilogy nostalgia will take a back seat because right now its 90% of the 2 movies they have made. I am not sure they can keep this tone up for eternity

Like maybe in the new movies they introduce a bad force that isnt just a reskined version of the empire?

Spoiler

But gimme a older Ewan McGregor Obi Wan movie first. OK?

 

[capitalCORN]

Fucking hell, the contrarians are already buzzing around like the horse is dead already. Rogue One was great in expanding the universe with world building. They added gray where there was none. And despite people calling the characters wooden, I thought they felt more like real people, not fucking jedis, no manifest destiny. Real people in way over their heads. Fuck anyone bitching about Star War's legacy, it could have ended at the prequels and you know it.

 

[wesleyshark]

Definitely. It makes A New Hope better. Empire Strikes Back was already fantastic and doesn't need the help. ROTJ is still mostly bad though.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Yep think it will fit in nicely as a prologue to the OT during a marathon.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I actually really want a bundle set of Rogue One + A New Hope sometime in the future. Maybe they'll do it for the 40th anniversary idk.

 

[malingenie]

There's definitely more gray in this movie than ANY of the SW films before it. I loved it. It was always so binary.

 

[Escape Goat]

I still laugh at the fat guy's last name is Porkins. Jak Porkins snack attack.

 

[The Scollard]

We're talking about an empire filled with grown adults making insane design decisions presumably to get this thing working, I don't think hubris would be a factor in that compared to the explanation in RO.

Really?

I mean, it's not like there never was an empire filled with grown adults that made insane design decisions when creating a superweapon. That type of thing would never hap-

Oh wait!

On 15 September 1940, three weeks after commissioning, Bismarck left Hamburg to begin sea trials in Kiel Bay. Sperrbrecher 13 escorted the ship to Arcona on 28 September, and then on to Gotenhafen for trials in the Gulf of Danzig. The ship's power-plant was given a thorough workout; Bismarck made measured-mile and high speed runs. As the ship's stability and manoeuvrability were being tested, a flaw in her design was discovered. When attempting to steer the ship solely through altering propeller revolutions, the crew learned that Bismarck could be kept on course only with great difficulty. Even with the outboard screws running at full power in opposite directions, they generated only a slight turning ability. Bismarck's main battery guns were first test-fired in late November. The tests proved she was a very stable gun platform. Trials lasted until December; Bismarck returned to Hamburg, arriving on 9 December, for minor alterations and the completion of the fitting-out process.

Upon returning to Ark Royal, the Swordfish loaded torpedoes equipped with contact detonators. The second attack comprised fifteen aircraft and was launched at 19:10. At 20:47, the torpedo bombers began their attack descent through the clouds. As the Swordfish approached, Bismarck fired her main battery at Sheffield, straddling the cruiser with her second salvo. Shell fragments rained down on Sheffield, killing three men and wounding several others.Sheffield quickly retreated under cover of a smoke screen. The Swordfish then attacked; Bismarck began to turn violently as her anti-aircraft batteries engaged the bombers. One torpedo hit amidships on the port side, just below the bottom edge of the main armour belt. The force of the explosion was largely contained by the underwater protection system and the belt armour but some structural damage caused minor flooding.

The second torpedo—fired by pilot John Moffat—struck Bismarck in her stern on the port side, near the port rudder shaft. The coupling on the port rudder assembly was badly damaged and the rudder became locked in a 12° turn to port. The explosion also caused much shock damage. The crew eventually managed to repair the starboard rudder but the port rudder remained jammed. A suggestion to sever the port rudder with explosives was dismissed by Lütjens, as damage to the screws would have left the battleship helpless.At 21:15, Lütjens reported that the ship was unmanoeuvrable

As well, Lütjens decided to head to France for repairs, instead of back to Norway, focused on finishing the mission instead of the safety of his men, since after all, the ship was supposed to be indestructible. If he hadn't done that, the British Navy would never have been able to sink the Bismarck.

Also, there were even more problems with Bismarck due to the German Navy wanted to get it up and running. After it had sunk, Hitler even received a report about issues with the ship, which there were many of, like the turrets having the wrong instruction manuals.

So really, it's not that strange for the Death Star's design flaw to unintentional on the Empire's part. In fact, due to their similarities with Nazis, it makes more sense that it was something they overlooked, because it was such a small flaw, that no one could ever take advantage of it.

That retcon was one of the worst thing RO did in my opinion. It made much more sense to me that it was something they overlooked.

 

[bishopcruz]

Rogue One is a great, though flawed, film. It's far better than TFA, but it does not make ANH better. I feel that a later film generally can't make a previous one better, especially when the earlier film was made with no real knowledge that a second film was coming. Now a later film can make the overall STORY of a universe better, and in many ways Rogue One did just that.

An example from this is Star Wars: The Clone Wars, TV series, it was made years after RotS, and it filled in gaps, fleshed out the Jedi and their flaws, showed Anakin's continued fall to the Dark Side, made Grievous an actual threat, introduced Ahsoka, one of the best characters in all of Star Wars, and gave the clones personalities, showing just how messed up the Clone Wars actually were. What it didn't do was make Ep III any less a piece of calcified shit. The STORY is now better, the execution is not. Ep III is still as boring and bland as it ever was, and while the backstory helps me undertand what is happeneing on an intellectual level, the movie still fails in its acting, pacing, plot, and the like.

A bad sequel or prequel can also not make an earlier film worse.

 

[y2dvd]

Rogue One is objectively a great movie. That's simple fact and I'm sorry for anyone that can't realize it.

It was average at best. My opinion is fact!

 

[Timeaisis]

I mean, RO was like fanservice: the movie, though. There were like a million callbacks to ANH. Which again, is good. But it hardly makes ANH better. It was already a good movie.

I don't really see episode 4 in any new light, but maybe with a bit more context. However, I think the lack of context and the discovery by Luke (and the audience) of this whole universe outside his small bubble is one of the things that makes A New Hope so good. It doesn't need to have everything laid out beforehand. The journey is half the fun.

 

[deadscreensky]

Yeah like the retcon explaining the Death Star's weak point. Pointless, right? So bland, you guys. So booooring. Truly, I slept like a baby.

It's not even a retcon, it's elaboration on an existing idea in the original Star Wars. Most of the Rebels thought it was an impossible shot, and Tarkin (IIRC) mentions that fighters are no threat. Now we just know it was a deliberate (incredibly difficult to attack) weakness instead of possibly an accidental one, which doesn't change anything of significance in the OT. At best it gets rid of some cliché nerd whining, and I assume most people were already ignoring that anyway.

I liked it, but regardless it certainly wasn't this hugely exciting idea you are suggesting.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

The biggest bummer about the whole film is that we already know the rebels get the plans going in. This robs the film of any real tension. The characters were completely bland and forgettable. It ended up being a heist movie, and as far as heist movies go this was sub par to say the least. Adding the Star Wars branding on a sub par heist movie doesn't suddenly make it a good heist movie.

Having said that I did enjoy all the fan service. All the visual throwbacks to the OT were fun.

Knowing they win the day and get the plans isn't a problem IF the way they steal them is fun to watch and the characters are good. The action in the last 3rd was damn good, so they nailed that. However, they flopped on the characters. I would've personally taken piss-poor action in place of bad characters.

It was average at best. My opinion is fact!

Was this film great?

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Rogue One is objectively a great movie. That's simple fact and I'm sorry for anyone that can't realize it.

Skyfall was great though

The last 2 minutes of Rogue One reminded me so much of the last 2 minutes of Skyfall.
Both were pure fan service.

 

[Bronx-Man]

It was average at best. My opinion is fact!

nuh-uh mine is

 

[firelogic]

The biggest bummer about the whole film is that we already know the rebels get the plans going in. This robs the film of any real tension. The characters were completely bland and forgettable. It ended up being a heist movie, and as far as heist movies go this was sub par to say the least. Adding the Star Wars branding on a sub par heist movie doesn't suddenly make it a good heist movie.

Having said that I did enjoy all the fan service. All the visual throwbacks to the OT were fun.

That's not really a valid criticism because that goes for the majority of movies. You know the protagonist is going to "win" by the end of the movie. It's how they get there that's interesting and fun. Basically every heist movie there is has the protagonist(s) pulling it off. Doesn't make them boring movies or lack tension.