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[Spyder_Monkey]

That's the thing about Rogue One, the mission will succeed. But where to take the story is where the freedom lies. There are no jedi, no Jesus figures, the force is all but absent, The

Spoiler

stardust

link on it's own is tenuous in a way that could only make sense for two specific people. So we get a story about a band, who group together from

Spoiler

Jedah

, barely an emotion shared between each, and it's not magic. It's simply people on a mission, fighting a dirty war to stop the catastrophic. No ideology, no mythos, no pathos, just a beeline with a far goal.

I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me.

If anything, Rogue one re-contextualizes the empire as being built upon the belief of the force when they really weren't. Also not having any emotion shared might be fine for a real war mission but this is a movie and movies needs characters that the audience can connect with. Which is Rogue One's biggest failings.

 

[Afrocious]

I actually think RO is pretty useless but that's just me

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Number two is. If you seriously think SS is the worst film ever made, you have a pathetically small and narrow view of how bad cinema can get.

It's pretty fucking bad tho.

 

[Always-honest]

I don't get it.

You have to say things are "garbage" on this forum.

 

[capitalCORN]

I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me. I am one with the force and the force is with me.

Who is to say that's the Force, maybe just the same brand of luck that carries Han Solo? The movie makes clear everyone is vulnerable.

 

[The Scollard]

That's the thing about Rogue One, the mission will succeed. But where to take the story is where the freedom lies. There are no jedi, no Jesus figures, the force is all but absent, The

Spoiler

stardust

link on it's own is tenuous in a way that could only make sense for two specific people. So we get a story about a band, who group together from

Spoiler

Jedah

, barely an emotion shared between each, and it's not magic. It's simply people on a mission, fighting a dirty war to stop the catastrophic. No ideology, no mythos, no pathos, just a beeline with a far goal.

But since we know the mission will succeed, the only reason to care about what happens is the characters, and none of the characters (besides maybe K2SO, because he reminds me of HK-47) were interesting. They were all just forgettable, and that's why there no emotional gravitas. If the characters were better, and I actually cared about Galen and Jyn's relationship (I don't, because we barely see any of it). Compare her to Luke. We saw his normal life and his relationship with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. With Jyn, we don't see anything of her relationship with her father, the first scene is him being taken away. If the story actually built up their bond, I might have cared, but it didn't, so the entire thing fell flat to me.

 

[Lamel]

worst movie I've seen all year

ill even take batman vs. superman over it

Trash taste confirmed. Congrats.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Who is to say that's the Force, maybe just the same brand of luck that carries Han Solo? The movie makes clear everyone is vulnerable.

The force doesn't make you invincible. Otherwise every single Jedi but Luke would live.

 

[capitalCORN]

But since we know the mission will succeed, the only reason to care about what happens is the characters, and none of the characters (besides maybe K2SO, because he reminds me of HK-47) were interesting. They were all just forgettable, and that's why there no emotional gravitas. If the characters were better, and I actually cared about Galen and Jyn's relationship (I don't, because we barely see any of it). Compare her to Luke. We saw his normal life and his relationship with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. With Jyn, we don't see anything of her relationship with her father, the first scene is him being taken away. If the story actually built up their bond, I might have cared, but it didn't, so the entire thing fell flat to me.

That's part of the pacing. There's no 'hot wash' between takes. The cast doesn't sit down to ruminate over a beach sunset. The course of the movie is maybe a few days. It's point a to point b, no stops for breath. I think it illustrates the providence of the crew to manage themselves in such a narrow window to accomplish the impossible. The last moments between Cassian and Jyn are really just realizing the gravity of all the events that took place, not some romantic forbearance.

Oh, Didn't see Galen. He's been an

Spoiler

absentee father

for such a long time, with such little time together, what could they possibly accomplish? All he could do was

Spoiler

relay the location of the plans with his dying breath and expire

.

The force doesn't make you invincible. Otherwise every single Jedi but Luke would live.

Plot vulnerable. It's obvious from the beginning the gloves are off.

 

[shintoki]

Que?

Kylo's one of the best SW characters yet, but TFA shits all over the main OT trio's characterization. Luke's back to being insecure about his ability as a jedi, Leia's back to having to lead an outnumbered army, Han's back to being a smuggler fucking over the people he makes deals with.

TFA almost makes Return of the Jedi completely worthless.

TFA, just hit the reset button on everything to do ANH again.

Not even just the characters but the plot. We're back to the empire and rebels. Death star. Strand kid of a jedi. Guy in the big black suit hunting them down. Etc.

 

[AlexFlame116]

I'm still upset that Kyle Katarn, and to an extent Jaden Korr, are no longer canon to anything. Including the Death Star plans.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I don't get these "useless" comments. Okay say the name "Star Wars" wasn't attached to it, would it still be considered "useless"? It's a excellent movie with/without Star Wars ties.

 

[Afrocious]

I don't get these "useless" comments. Okay say the name "Star Wars" wasn't attached to it. Would it still be considered "useless"? It's a excellent movie with/without Star Wars ties.

It's useless in the sense that it doesn't add anything that could be important in the universe aside from Jedah and that one planet with the Obi-wan anagram for a name.

I wouldn't say it makes the OT better or worse personally.

 

[Wagram]

Easily my 3rd favorite Star Wars film. Veryfaithful and well done. It makes me look back very harshly at 7 for their lack of originality with it.

 

[The Scollard]

That's part of the pacing. There's no 'hot wash' between takes. The cast doesn't sit down to ruminate over a beach sunset. The course of the movie is maybe a few days. It's point a to point b, no stops for breath. I think it illustrates the providence of the crew to manage themselves in such a narrow window to accomplish the impossible. The last moments between Cassian and Jyn are really just realizing the gravity of all the events that took place, not some romantic forbearance.

I get that, but that's the exact with the movie. Because it does that, there's no reason to care about the characters. An ensemble like that could work if you actually were interested in whether or not the whole mission would succeed, but you already know it does, which means the only way the film can make people care is by getting them to care about the cast. The pacing pretty much killed that idea. I forgot soon after the movie most of the characters names.

If they were going to do the story of getting the Death Star plans, they should have built up that bond, because getting to care about these characters is the only way they create tension, since we already know they're going to succeed. I could have forgiven the pacing if the movie was about a mission who's outcome I didn't already know.

EDIT: And this:

You can have breakneck pacing while still having character moments. GAF's favorite movie, Mad Max Fury Road is fast paced, but still has great character moments.

 

[theCalamity]

That's part of the pacing. There's no 'hot wash' between takes. The cast doesn't sit down to ruminate over a beach sunset. The course of the movie is maybe a few days. It's point a to point b, no stops for breath. I think it illustrates the providence of the crew to manage themselves in such a narrow window to accomplish the impossible. The last moments between Cassian and Jyn are really just realizing the gravity of all the events that took place, not some romantic forbearance.

You can have breakneck pacing while still having character moments. GAF's favorite movie, Mad Max Fury Road is fast paced, but still has great character moments.

 

[Afrocious]

Wait, we can be critical about RO in this thread? Is this a safe space? I don't want to be told that I need to get over myself again.

 

[FullMetalx117]

You can have breakneck pacing while still having character moments. GAF's favorite movie, Mad Max Fury Road is fast paced, but still has great character moments.

what were the names of those character's again? I just knew them as Charlize Theron and Tom Hardy

Edit: Haha actually I'm assuming Tom Hardy's name is Mad Max

 

[Mulgrok]

RO was entertaining enough, but it does a poor job of developing the characters. I felt nothing for the characters. Events held no weight and little impact because of it.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

what were the names of those character's again? I just knew them as Charlize Theron and Tom Hardy

Edit: Haha actually I'm assuming Tom Hardy's name is Mad Max

Exactly. People are acting like in ensemble movies you actually remember the names of the characters aside from 1-2. What were the names of all the Inception characters? The names of all the Oceans Trilogy characters?

 

[mxgt]

I don't get these "useless" comments. Okay say the name "Star Wars" wasn't attached to it, would it still be considered "useless"? It's a excellent movie with/without Star Wars ties.

Without Star Wars ties I think it's an incredibly poor movie in nearly all aspects aside from the direction of the action.

The number one concern is the characters. None of them are memorable, none of them have a developed back story and there is absolutely no reason to give a shit about any of them. Not even the two main characters.

Rogue One has zero charm and zero reason to exist other than to appease Star Wars fanboys that love watching classic elements of Star Wars shoved onto the screen.

 

[Pifje]

what were the names of those character's again? I just knew them as Charlize Theron and Tom Hardy

Edit: Haha actually I'm assuming Tom Hardy's name is Mad Max

Well done, you played yourself.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Well done, you played yourself.

Not really. It says a lot when to know a character's name it has to be in the movie's title. Was his name even mentioned in the movie?

And Inception is a great example. Can't name a single character in that movie.

 

[theCalamity]

Not really. It says a lot when to know a character's name it has to be in the movie's title. Was his name even mentioned in the movie?

And Inception is a great example. Can't name a single character in that movie.

Ariadne. Dom. Yusef. Saito. In Mad Max, they barely say a few character names and the others aren't named except in the credits.

I don't think remembering names is the measurement of whether or not a character is good or likable. I liked Donnie Yen's character, but I didn't know his name.

 

[Pifje]

Not really. It says a lot when to know a character's name it has to be in the movie's title. Was his name even mentioned in the movie?

And Inception is a great example. Can't name a single character in that movie.

Ah, okay, if you say so.

 

[Afrocious]

On the subject of characters: i may not remember the names of Ocean's Eleven or the Wives individual names in Mad Max Fury Road, but at least I can say their movies were written well enough to where I cared about them.

I think one big issue with RO's characters is that you know they're going to be okay until they actually get the plans, so I felt no tension in the first half or so in the movie.

TBF the only new character that interested me was the cape dude. Though he had no reason to climb that tower by himself to confront Jyn, I thought it was kinda cool to see him wounded and looking up at his own creation about to destroy him. The set up was dumb, but that was my favorite shot in the whole movie.

It made me wish we got a story about imperial admins doing admin stuff. It would've been boring as hell for kids though.

 

[Mr. Mister]

Actually feel asleep for a bit during second act. A real mess of a movie propped up by some fan service and eye candy for the last 45 minutes. Ends on the film equivalent of a sugar high.

 

[Timu]

Worst Star Wars movie and I hated the PT.

It's not worse than AOTC.

 

[jett]

Not really. It says a lot when to know a character's name it has to be in the movie's title. Was his name even mentioned in the movie?

And Inception is a great example. Can't name a single character in that movie.

When you can't remember the name of the main character in a movie titled after the main character, the only that says is that your brain momentarily malfunctioned.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Not really. It says a lot when to know a character's name it has to be in the movie's title. Was his name even mentioned in the movie?

Yes? And I don't think too many people have trouble remembering that Charlize Theron's character had a silly name like Furiosa, either.

 

[capitalCORN]

I get that, but that's the exact with the movie. Because it does that, there's no reason to care about the characters. An ensemble like that could work if you actually were interested in whether or not the whole mission would succeed, but you already know it does, which means the only way the film can make people care is by getting them to care about the cast. The pacing pretty much killed that idea. I forgot soon after the movie most of the characters names.

If they were going to do the story of getting the Death Star plans, they should have built up that bond, because getting to care about these characters is the only way they create tension, since we already know they're going to succeed. I could have forgiven the pacing if the movie was about a mission who's outcome I didn't already know.

EDIT: And this:

If you didn't align with the characters, that's fine. But to say they have no defining quality is demeaning. All the characters in the movie are damaged, that's to show what the Empire's oppression is like,

Spoiler

Jyn is steel headed because she was raised by an extremist (Saw), and knows she has to undo her fathers's work. Bhodi is deeply distrustful, being alone int he web of the Empire's underworld, Cassian is wrought and weathered, having been in the Rebellion from child onwards (which I assume were not very successful days). to basically become a tooth and nail mercenary. Chirrut was an old custodian to the temple, still holding hope that the good he tended to will bring fruition, but not without damage. His chanting is very obsessive compulsive. Baze could be sitting in a bar, ruminating his best days and cursing living under the Empire's boot. But Chirrut serves as an example to him to keep hopes and spirits up. K2SO is obviously a kinder and gentler HK 47

. This isn't an Errol Flynn adventure, it's more war drama than anything.

 

[FullMetalx117]

When you can't remember the name of the main character in a movie titled after the main character, the only that says is that your brain momentarily malfunctioned.

It could also mean I didn't care about the main character enough. And tbf I wouldn't really consider Hardy to be the main character in the movie anyways. He just happened to tag along in Charlize Theron's adventure.

 

[kobu]

It's crazy to me that star wars fans are complaining about characters not being memorable and having no backstory.

 

[theCalamity]

On the subject of characters: i may not remember the names of Ocean's Eleven or the Wives individual names in Mad Max Fury Road, but at least I can say their movies were written well enough to where I cared about them.

The little Asian dude in Ocean's has more personality than most of the characters in R1.

I think one big issue with RO's characters is that you know they're going to be okay until they actually get the plans, so I felt no tension in the first half or so in the movie.

My problem with them is that -- at least with the main two -- is that their drama was predictable. As soon as Cassian got the order to kill Galen, I groaned because I've seen it done before. I told my friend after I watched it that we know how the story ends, but at least make the drama be different.

Another problem I have with them is that they barely interact with each other. Jyn mostly talks with Cassian and K2SO. Chirrut is usually with Baze. There's barely any talking between the groups. They didn't feel like a group.

 

[Afrocious]

It's Saving Private Ryan but without likeable and relatable characters

 

[The Scollard]

This isn't an Errol Flynn adventure, it's more war drama than anything.

Except even war movies have characters you care about. I heard a lot of comparisons to Saving Private Ryan when having this movie described. SPR was a war movie, but unlike R1, it still had characters that were built up through the film, characters the audience ended up caring about. R1 doesn't do that, it's like SPR but none of the characters have any personality. And no, being "damaged" isn't a character trait. It's as much of a character trait as being clumsy.

EDIT: Beaten on the Saving Private Ryan comparison.

 

[firehawk12]

At this point I bet that the Han Solo movie will have young Han playing poker with young Lando, and when Lando loses the ship he'll go, "Well, one day I'm going to have a city on the clouds and you'll come crawling back to me!"

And everyone will lap it up.

 

[Afrocious]

At this point I bet that the Han Solo movie will have young Han playing poker with young Lando, and when Lando loses the ship he'll go, "Well, one day I'm going to have a city on the clouds and you'll come crawling back to me!"

And everyone will lap it up.

I will walk the fuck out the theater.

 

[y2dvd]

It's Saving Private Ryan but without likeable and relatable characters

That's still a disrespect to Saving Private Ryan.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This movie succeeds at being the most accurate depiction of war in the star wars universe. And for making Darth Vader seem scary as fuck, the scene where he's slaughtering the rebels is fucking terrifying, he's tearing through these dudes like it's nothing despite being outnumbered 10-1, when's the last time these films genuinely made Darth Vader intimidating? The first half is definitely flawed but holy hell the second half is straight up pornography if a bit unearned right up to the credits.

 

[jstevenson]

fuck the haters. it's a great movie. people bitch just to bitch. It's an echo chamber online where they grab onto dumb shit like "no character development" in an fucking ensemble movie that actually has nice arcs for a ton of characters.

or they bitch about CGI

or they bitch about not enough Vader.

or they bitch about too much Vader

Rogue One is great. It's better on repeat viewings too, just like Force Awakens.

 

[Afrocious]

fuck the haters. it's a great movie. people bitch just to bitch. It's an echo chamber online where they grab onto dumb shit like "no character development" in an fucking ensemble movie that actually has nice arcs for a ton of characters.

or they bitch about CGI

or they bitch about not enough Vader.

or they bitch about too much Vader

Rogue One is great. It's better on repeat viewings too, just like Force Awakens.

Here we go

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

It's Saving Private Ryan but without likeable and relatable characters

I'd say the other difference is that it's almost nothing like Saving Private Ryan.

 

[The One and Done™]

Hatin asses. You all should be thankful

 

[diaspora]

fuck the haters. it's a great movie. people bitch just to bitch. It's an echo chamber online where they grab onto dumb shit like "no character development" in an fucking ensemble movie that actually has nice arcs for a ton of characters.

or they bitch about CGI

or they bitch about not enough Vader.

or they bitch about too much Vader

Rogue One is great. It's better on repeat viewings too, just like Force Awakens.

Disagree, Rogue One is significantly better than TFA imo.

 

[Mr. Mister]

fuck the haters. it's a great movie. people bitch just to bitch. It's an echo chamber online where they grab onto dumb shit like "no character development" in an fucking ensemble movie that actually has nice arcs for a ton of characters.

or they bitch about CGI

or they bitch about not enough Vader.

or they bitch about too much Vader

Rogue One is great. It's better on repeat viewings too, just like Force Awakens.

Lol nice arcs. Did you watch the same movie? The villain had the best (only?) arc in the film.

 

[capitalCORN]

Except even war movies have characters you care about. I heard a lot of comparisons to Saving Private Ryan when having this movie described. SPR was a war movie, but unlike R1, it still had characters that were built up through the film, characters the audience ended up caring about. R1 doesn't do that, it's like SPR but none of the characters have any personality. And no, being "damaged" isn't a character trait. It's as much of a character trait as being clumsy.

EDIT: Beaten on the Saving Private Ryan comparison.

Because SPR had a whole movie after the beach head. I've explained it already in spoilers.

 

[Afrocious]

I actually find TFA to be better than RO despite it borrowing heavily from ANH. I cared about TFA's characters.

 

[mxgt]

in an fucking ensemble movie that actually has nice arcs for a ton of characters.

 

[Brazil]

I just dislike how, in both this and TFA, the space ship battles seem like mere afterthoughts, with absolutely zero tension or interesting set-pieces revolving around them.

You're joking, surely.

Spoiler

This film has a Hammerhead pushing a shieldless Star Destroyer into cutting another one in half.