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[Ratrat]

Then he should know better than anyone now how to handle humor. He can't be that stupid. Not like Jontron.

Jontron isnt just stupid. Its clear which side he supports. Pewdiepie apologized and confirmed he does not support neonazi in any form and the joke was too offensive and deleted the video.

As Zakalwe(awesome name!) has been saying, its what he does from here on out that will really show how he feels about this.

 

[Zakalwe]

Jontron isnt just stupid. Its clear which side he supports. Pewdiepie apologized and confirmed he does not support neonazi in any form and the joke was too offensive and deleted the video.

Yep.

 

[Red Arremer]

More like: I've heard stuff about this so I make up my mind before I check it out myself.

I'm very sorry but I don't have the time nor the interest in Pewdiepie's content to watch every single video he made in order to find out if the poster I quoted is lying or not. Considering the topic of this very thread, however, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the truth.

Yes, that is making an assumption, but again: I don't have the time to scour through the masses of content he produces in order to confirm it. I already am negatively predisposed towards him due to his antisemitism - that he might've said a homophobic slur just is icing on the cake, if you will.

And my post is very short and simple. I find it hard to believe that someone like you connected your sexuality and religion to it.

Ethnicity. There's a difference between the Judaism, the religion and Jewish, the ethnicity.
Anyway, no, I didn't connect either to your post. I am simply explaining that I don't want to give traffic or ad money to someone who is abusing minorities I belong to. I thought saying that I belonged to these minorities was enough.

 

[atomsk]

They were his network so yeah he needs that money. He doesn't earn a penny from his videos without a network.

As someone who makes money on youtube without a network, you don't need one to be a "youtube partner"

Obviously you make a lot MORE money by signing ad deals with better CPM rates when you've got one, but it's not necessary.

A good friend of mine has 700k+ subs and has never signed with a network.

 

[Doc_Drop]

He's not even putting that much thought into it. He's doing it purely for the shock value. It's abundantly clear it's a thoughtless part of his persona now, and this is both a positive and a negative.

A positive because it shows us he's not far gone enough to turn it around.
A negative because this shit enables bigotry even if bigotry wasn't the intent.

I'm glad he's faced consequences, I hope it wakes him the fuck up, but he's clearly not got the agenda you describe.

I think yours is a naive standpoint. It makes perfect sense for him to be keeping that part if his fanbase alive,it has been working for quite a few public figures. He can then present the satire/shock/humour angle and keep his image clean

 

[Tubobutts]

So if he said "Death To All Armenians" who have also been through a genocide would the reaction have been the same? Allow me to tell you: no.

Congrats. You figured out a way to blame the Jews for people being upset about a guy being anti semetic

 

[King of Custard]

I've worked with kids extensively, and I can assure you they're incredibly influenced by sources such as their favourite youtube personalities.

And my abecdote has backing in the real world.

You're wrong here, your "gut feeling" about kids has no weight.

Except it doesn't and it isn't a gut feeling, you keep trying to belittle me to support your own argument. I work with adults and rehabilitation too and there is always a real issue behind things that influence their behavior they just blame that stuff in the early stages because it's easier.

 

[Rootbeer]

He's not even putting that much thought into it. He's doing it purely for the shock value. It's abundantly clear it's a thoughtless part of his persona now, and this is both a positive and a negative.

A positive because it shows us he's not far gone enough to turn it around.
A negative because this shit enables bigotry even if bigotry wasn't the intent.

I'm glad he's faced consequences, I hope it wakes him the fuck up, but he's clearly not got the agenda you describe.

I'm not even saying it is a deliberate plan on his part, only that he knows he has that audience, he continues to make the jokes and thinks he can get away with it, and he is benefitting from it.

Brings to mind Dave Chappelle and how he handled something kind of like it very differently. Dave has a story he's told before about how (gonna paraphrase very loosely) he was on stage telling a joke and he noticed someone in the audience that was reacting to the joke in a way he was not comfortable with (basically, enjoying it in a way Dave didn't intend). That was a turning point for Dave where he went "whoa, I need to take a step back here and think about some of this shit."

PDP needs that moment. He should have had it on his own long ago on this issue and he never has. I think that speaks a lot to his character.

 

[Zakalwe]

I think yours is a naive standpoint. It makes perfect sense for him to be keeping that part if his fanbase alive,it has been working for quite a few public figures. He can then present the satire/shock/humour angle and keep his image clean

It's not, I'm taking into consideration things other than his shock comedy. His actions, articulation outside of his persona, etc... he's very clearly not what you describe.

Except it doesn't and it isn't a gut feeling, you keep trying to belittle me to support your own argument. I work with adults and rehabilitation too and there is always a real issue behind things that influence their behavior they just blame that stuff in the early stages because it's easier.

You're wrong dude, these things influence kids. To deny it is delusion. Sorry.

I'm not even saying it is a deliberate plan on his part, only that he knows he has that audience, he continues to make the jokes and thinks he can get away with it, and he is benefitting from it.

Brings to mind Dave Chappelle and how he handled something kind of like it very differently. Dave has a story he's told before about how (gonna paraphrase very loosely) he was on stage telling a joke and he noticed someone in the audience that was reacting to the joke in a way he was not comfortable with (basically, enjoying it in a way Dave didn't intend). That was a turning point for Dave where he went "whoa, I need to take a step back here and think about some of this shit."

PDP needs that moment. He should have had it on his own long ago on this issue and he never has. I think that speaks a lot to his character.

Well, he's not stupid so he's probably aware of these links, I just think he's not putting enough thought into it because he probably doesn't see what he's doing as an issue.

And hopefully recent events will wake him up, because it /is/ an issue and he /could/ go beyond the point of return with it all.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Er, that was in response to h3h3 being called alt-right because he had a few complaints about the left even while he voted for Hilary.

What truths about the "SJW menace" did h3h3 have to share then?

Not sure what quoting the bible is supposed to prove?

Why don't you read it and get back to me.

Sorry, but this isn't 100% correct. In German it's called "Nationalsozialismus" and not "nationaler Sozialismus". That's because the Nazis had no ties to Marx, Hegel & co.

There were a few elements of socialism in the Third Reich, but all in all "Nationalsozialismus" should rather be looked at as German Imperialism combined with a government run war industry.

Yes they hated Marx, so do the right-wing nationalist Putin-funded parties today. They're still socialists who want more of the government benefits for themselves via kicking out all the foreigners.

 

[Ponn]

Jontron isnt just stupid. Its clear which side he supports. Pewdiepie apologized and confirmed he does not support neonazi in any form and the joke was too offensive and deleted the video.

As Zakalwe(awesome name!) has been saying, its what he does from here on out that will really show how he feels about this.

Did you actually watch his "apology" video before he took it down? Because that was not an apology, that was lashing out. I'm sure he's sorry NOW that he's facing real consequences like so often happens in these cases.

There's a difference between feeling remorseful and understanding why what you did was an awful thing and just being sorry you got caught and called out.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Have you seen the world we live in? Kids have to face worse than this on a daily basis. Kids are smarter than you think and decide for themselves.


Also just because young people watch his content does not mean that's who it's aimed at. How many "kids" play GTA for fucks sake.

Going by that logic, because GTA is played by kids, we should be OK for the companies making those games to advertise and promote them directly to kids? Whether they are playing it is a thing for the parents to deal with, but a company should not aim their products towards kids if there is an M/18+ rating on it. But that might be going off topic here.

Your other argument is basically "well, worse things happen" which is not a good excuse. And no, kids are not smarter and can not decide everything for themselves when it comes to media consumption. And content creators that know a good portion of their audience consists of kids should take that into account, it's called taking responsibility.

Except it doesn't and it isn't a gut feeling, you keep trying to belittle me to support your own argument. I work with adults and rehabilitation too and there is always a real issue behind things that influence their behavior they just blame that stuff in the early stages because it's easier.

So your work with adults, makes you an expert on kids? That is not how this works.

 

[Tiops]

At this point I think we've seen enough to learn that those who use the term "SJW" unironically are pieces of shit, regardless of whether they actually outright identify themselves as alt-right nazi wannabes.

It's not a good term, but I definitely wouldn't go that far just because he used it. It's not a racial slur or anything, and it's only seen as some absolutely prohibited word in some heavily left leaning communities (like GAF).

Maybe if someone said to him "hey, don't use that term" instead of saying he's an alt right piece of shit he would not use it anymore.

 

[kingocfs]

I hope the "they are just jokes" crowd can understand the broader context of what he is doing when PDP makes many videos with these kinds of references.

While in his videos he goes out of his way to point out he doesn't support these messages, time and time again he uses nazi and antisemitic content in his videos under the guise of comedy and the reason why is becoming increasingly crystal clear.

He is deftly appealing to a certain portion of his audience he 100% knows exists, and that is of the alt-right, the white supremacists, the nazi sympathizers, etc.

To me it doesn't even matter if he agrees with these viewpoints or is just using it to be edgy. He knows there's a huge chunk of people that are getting off on it and is trying to leverage that.

He thinks he can have his cake and eat it to by using antisemitism to reaffirm and elate one part of his audience (and by extension normalizing these sorts of 'jokes' and comments), in hopes that it just comes off as a "dark humor" joke to the other side of his audience.

This is not acceptable and I'm glad he's facing some consequences here.

Well said.

 

[xeroborn55]

In what world is it okay to make jokes like the ones in that WSJ video? ESPECIALLY in videos targeted at kids. I don't go around getting mad at silly shit on the internet, but that video got me riled up.

 

[Doc_Drop]

It's not, I'm taking into consideration things other than his shock comedy. His actions, articulation outside of his persona, etc... he's very clearly not what you describe.



You're wrong dude, these things influence kids. To deny it is delusion. Sorry.

Right, ideal cover to hide the fact he is courting alt right audiences. I'm not saying he necessary an anti-semite or whathaveyou, but he's benefitting from their custom whether he's meaning to or not. I feel its probably the latter, unless he desists from producing more content along those lines

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

to all the "lol just a joke, lighten up" people in here. i bet most of you would be shocked if i made just a joke about 9/11...

I really wouldn't be, but then I'm British. I was 14 when the 9/11 attacks happened and the very next day people in IT class were using Wingdings to illustrate two planes flying into two tower blocks. I ride the London Tube to work every day and have done for nearly a decade, I wouldn't be offended by a London bombing joke either.

My view: we can learn from, celebrate and understand our history without being held hostage by it.

 

[Zakalwe]

Right, ideal cover to hide the fact he is courting alt right audiences. I'm not saying he necessary an anti-semite or whathaveyou, but he's benefitting from their custom whether he's meaning to or not. I feel its probably the latter, unless he desists from producing more content along those lines

Again, to this point I think he was aware of the links to a degree but considered himself free of them because "he didn't mean it".

At this point he absolutely has to take stock and realise, it's very clear his actions have had a huge negative effect. He'll either double down and become an ally for their cause without realising it, or he'll grow up and drop the shock part of his persona.

Here's hoping... it would be horrible if he fell, he's far too influential and it would have a nasty impact.

Did you actually watch his "apology" video before he took it down? Because that was not an apology, that was lashing out. I'm sure he's sorry NOW that he's facing real consequences like so often happens in these cases.

There's a difference between feeling remorseful and understanding why what you did was an awful thing and just being sorry you got caught and called out.

Can't lump it like that /until/ we see his actions in the future, how he handles his actual new content. This could very well be the start of a new period of growth for him, we have no way to tell yet.

 

[Kayhan]

To be quite honest I'm shocked PDP as a brand/idea is allowed to exist unopposed in 2017.

wat

He is a silly youtuber.

 

[clockworkinyou]

Fuck him. All the people who defended him for this shit should get fucked.

 

[Ratrat]

Did you actually watch his "apology" video before he took it down? Because that was not an apology, that was lashing out. I'm sure he's sorry NOW that he's facing real consequences like so often happens in these cases.

There's a difference between feeling remorseful and understanding why what you did was an awful thing and just being sorry you got caught and called out.

So, perhaps rightfully you are skeptical. Im sure a lot of people are. His actions here on out will determine whether you were right.

What truths about the "SJW menace" did h3h3 have to share then?



Why don't you read it and get back to me.

An abridged version if you can bother. I havent felt like reading the bible in years. Actually nevermind.

 

[SerTapTap]

Not defending him here, but it might surprise people how common nazi-jokes and references are in some european countries. As a finn, it feels I hear a hitler joke at least weekly.

Here in America we at least try to make the nazis the butt of the joke not the jews, except for...certain types. Types that do not get the benefit of the doubt, especially now.

His history, plus the repetition of this (extremely unfunny) 'joke', combined with the non-apology speaks volumes. Anyone crying "context" is right, but not in how they think they are.

If you get praised in the Daily Stormer and don't say "oops I fucked up" that alone is a really strong negative sign.

 

[Lime]

In what world is it okay to make jokes like the ones in that WSJ video? ESPECIALLY in videos targeted at kids. I don't go around getting mad at silly shit on the internet, but that video got me riled up.

it's the whole south park / 4chan / edgy shitlord type of humor where causing offense is the supreme ideal no matter the consequences.

 

[Zakalwe]

So, perhaps rightfully you are skeptical. Im sure a lot of people are. His actions here on out will determine whether you were right.

Indeed.

If he doubles down or refuses to change I'll be one of the first to stand up and call it.

For now he has the chance to grow, and I really hope he does as his position is far too influential to lose to the wrong side.

 

[Christhor]

They were his network so yeah he needs that money. He doesn't earn a penny from his videos without a network.

There's youtubers without a network who lives off of their channel. This will probably give him more money from his videos.

 

[SerTapTap]

it's the whole south park / 4chan / edgy shitlord type of humor where causing offense is the supreme ideal no matter the consequences.

I don't think South Park would really be in the same basket here. Southpark is extreme and stuff but usually has a pointed message as well (at least for the last 10 or so seasons). Cartman usually gets what's coming to him, I don't really think South Park would make a video full of alt right propaganda and never at any point challenge it.

Indeed.

If he doubles down or refuses to change I'll be one of the first to stand up and call it.

For now he has the chance to grow, and I really hope he does as his position is far too influential to lose to the wrong side.

His "apology" is already refusing to change though. The fact he's been doing it since august is refusing to change. I can't view arguments like these as being in good faith when it seems like any opportunity for them to actually do so is long gone.

 

[King Gilga]

Making hitler jokes whatever fine.

But as soon as you pay someone to say 'kill all jews' you cross a very obvious line.

Especially when the majority of your audience is impressionable preteen children.

This youtube/disney partnership removals were well deserved.

 

[Lime]

I don't think South Park would really be in the same basket here. Southpark is extreme and stuff but usually has a pointed message as well (at least for the last 10 or so seasons). Cartman usually gets what's coming to him, I don't really think South Park would make a video full of alt right propaganda and never at any point challenge it.

It's just the concept or premise of the show's humor wherein causing offense regardless of the victim is considered hilarious regardless of who's at the receiving end, not necessarily nazi or alt-right humor.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

An abridged version if you can bother. I havent felt like reading the bible in years. Actually nevermind.

I don't mean the whole book, just the verse.

It's not a good term, but I definitely wouldn't go that far just because he used it. It's not a racial slur or anything, and it's only seen as some absolutely prohibited word in some heavily left leaning communities (like GAF).

Maybe if someone said to him "hey, don't use that term" instead of saying he's an alt right piece of shit he would not use it anymore.

How about "only shitheads and sociopaths devoid of empathy use that term, don't use that term"

We're not his youtube buddies and he's not our audience, but if there's any truth other members of GAF can learn here, let it be that.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

I don't think South Park would really be in the same basket here. Southpark is extreme and stuff but usually has a pointed message as well (at least for the last 10 or so seasons). Cartman usually gets what's coming to him, I don't really think South Park would make a video full of alt right propaganda and never at any point challenge it.

They did get Osama Bin Laden to fly commercial air liners into the state of New Jersey to stop the spread of Jersey people. As tasteless jokes about harrowing atrocities go, I don't think they're a long way off here.

 

[p2535748]

It's funny, because when Charlie Hebdo offends Muslims by satirizing Muhammad we were all in support of free speech. I don't agree with either approaches cause I simply don't find these kind of jokes funny. But the fact is: if PewDiePie had made the joke towards another group -as I mentioned earlier- I bet Disney wouldn't do a single thing and I just find that extremely hypocritical.

Two things:

1. You can't make up a hypothetical and then criticize someone for how they act in that hypothetical. If you have evidence Disney has been hypocritical, use it, otherwise you're just making stuff up.
2. Terrorists killed people over Charlie Hebdo. No one's suggesting anyone try to kill PewDiePie, no one's suggesting the government arrest him. There's no free speech issue here. He's a business and he's suffering business fallout for his actions. That's completely reasonable.

 

[Zakalwe]

His "apology" is already refusing to change though. The fact he's been doing it since august is refusing to change. I can't view arguments like these as being in good faith when it seems like any opportunity for them to actually do so is long gone.

Not enough to call it. It could be a knee jerk. He's very clearly in deep with his persona and being defensive, that doesn't mean this shit won't wake him up over the coming weeks. This might be exactly the wake up call he needed, and these things sometimes take a little time to sink in.

Time will tell, I have faith in him still.

 

[King of Custard]

Going by that logic, because GTA is played by kids, we should be OK for the companies making those games to advertise and promote them directly to kids? Whether they are playing it is a thing for the parents to deal with, but a company should not aim their products towards kids if there is an M/18+ rating on it. But that might be going off topic here.

Your other argument is basically "well, worse things happen" which is not a good excuse. And no, kids are not smarter and can not decide everything for themselves when it comes to media consumption. And content creators that know a good portion of their audience consists of kids should take that into account, it's called taking responsibility.


So your work with adults, makes you an expert on kids? That is not how this works.

Did you even read what I wrote? He is not advertising to kids the same way GTA is not advertising to kids but they both have young audiences.

It's not, I'm taking into consideration things other than his shock comedy. His actions, articulation outside of his persona, etc... he's very clearly not what you describe.



You're wrong dude, these things influence kids. To deny it is delusion. Sorry.



Well, he's not stupid so he's probably aware of these links, I just think he's not putting enough thought into it because he probably doesn't see what he's doing as an issue.

And hopefully recent events will wake him up, because it /is/ an issue and he /could/ go beyond the point of return with it all.

I'm sorry mate saying your right just because your right isn't a good counter argument If you work with kids you know full well there are many more underlining issues then what YouTube personality they watch.

 

[xeroborn55]

They did get Osama Bin Laden to fly commercial air liners into the state of New Jersey to stop the spread of Jersey people. As tasteless jokes about harrowing atrocities go, I don't think they're a long way off here.

There's never been a systematic attempt to wipe the people of New Jersey off the face of the earth before, either.

 

[Zakalwe]

D
I'm sorry mate saying your right just because your right isn't a good counter argument If you work with kids you know full well there are many more underlining issues the what YouTube personality they watch.

I've already presented a valid argument why I feel you're being deluded here, and, as I said, I stand by it. I'm not going in circles with you, thanks.

 

[Doffen]

Making hitler jokes whatever fine.

But as soon as you pay someone to say 'kill all jews' you cross a very obvious line.

Especially when the majority of your audience is impressionable preteen children.

This youtube/disney partnership removals were well deserved.

Is there a way to see his current demographic?

 

[blastprocessor]

Wow so ties with Maker Studios over then??

 

[ClosingADoor]

Did you even read what I wrote? He is not advertising to kids the same way GTA is not advertising to kids but they both have young audiences.

You brought GTA into it for some reason, I'm pointing out that we don't target content towards a young audience for that, because that would be inappropriate. Same way that PewDiePie not taking into account his young audience when making his content is inappropriate.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

He'll either double down and become an ally for their cause without realising it, or he'll grow up and drop the shock part of his persona.
.

I'm happy to be corrected on this one, but I don't get the impression that the vast majority of those who've swung towards the right over the past few years consider themselves neo-nazis.

Sure, there'll be a small number who sleep with a copy of Mein Kampf set on the night stand, but by and large most won't consider themselves in league with genocidal tyrants.

Given the the current trend towards labelling those on the right fascists and nazis, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if many on the alt-right might interpret this as lampooning them: some kind of cultural commentary about how easy it is to get people to say stupid racist things - maybe.

I'm not saying anything definite, but I wouldn't take it as read that seeing a popular Youtube personality parade around in Nazi regalia would immediately curry favour with large numbers of alt-righters who don't consider themselves genocidal tyrants but are being called it quite a lot - they might in fact see it quite the opposite.

Just my thoughts...

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I really wouldn't be, but then I'm British. I was 14 when the 9/11 attacks happened and the very next day people in IT class were using Wingdings to illustrate two planes flying into two tower blocks. I ride the London Tube to work every day and have done for nearly a decade, I wouldn't be offended by a London bombing joke either.

Thats totally comperable to jokes about the holocaust.

 

[BGBW]

nah I'm gonna say anyone who uses SJW as an epithet is a piece of shit. "Triggered" jokes can also fuck right off.

It's really not that hard to be funny without being offensive. If you can only be funny while insulting swathes of people, you're not funny, you're just an asshole.

Using the terms "SJW" and "triggered" are offensive now?

 

[bosseye]

I watched the videos when they were released; I didn't find them funny. I don't believe he is a genuine anti semite, but I do object to stuff like this as it normalises the abhorrent in the name of entertainment.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

There's never been a systematic attempt to wipe the people of New Jersey off the face of the earth before, either.

I was referring to the inclusion of Osama Bin Laden targeting American civilians with passengers planes (something that kinda did happen pretty recently), but... yeah, whatever.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Thats totally comperable to jokes about the holocaust.

You should probably read the post I was responding to first - I didn't make the comparison, but meh... whatever.

 

[Koobion]

Doubt he cares, lol. People need to chill.

 

[Zakalwe]

You brought GTA into it for some reason, I'm pointing out that we don't target content towards a young audience for that, because that would be inappropriate. Same way that PewDiePie not taking into account his young audience when making his content is inappropriate.

Exactly. Again. Well said, CAD.

 

[onemanasylum]

That was pretty stupid of him.

 

[Doc_Drop]

I'm happy to be corrected on this one, but I don't get the impression that the vast majority of those who've swung towards the right over the past few years consider themselves neo-nazis.

Sure, there'll be a small number who sleep with a copy of Mein Kampf set on the night stand, but by and large most won't consider themselves in league with genocidal tyrants.

Given the the current trend towards labelling those on the right fascists and nazis, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if many on the alt-right might interpret this as lampooning them: some kind of cultural commentary about how easy it is to get people to say stupid racist things - maybe.

I'm not saying anything definite, but I wouldn't take it as read that seeing a popular Youtube personality parade around in Nazi regalia would immediately curry favour with large numbers of alt-righters who don't consider themselves genocidal tyrants but are being called it quite a lot - they might in fact see it quite the opposite.

Just my thoughts...

Of course they don't consider themselves neo-nazis, they probably don't realise how close their ideals are. They think they're justified in feeling the way they are and lack the insight to see how toxic their views have become.

In my impression those on the far right try and vacuum any easily led people and latch on to celebrity or people in power who even on a shallow level appear to be in support of their ideas in order to aid persuading people to their cause

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Using the terms "SJW" and "triggered" are offensive now?

Depends on how you use them. Those who use them as slurs, for some reason, are assholes. Quite the mystery why that is. We've been working on it, if you care to follow the thread.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Of course they don't consider themselves neo-nazis, they probably don't realise how close their ideals are. They think they're justified in feeling the way they are and lack the insight to see how toxic their views have become.

In my impression those on the far right try and vacuum any easily led people and latch on to celebrity or people in power who even on a shallow level appear to be in support of their ideas in order to aid persuading people to their cause

Can you think of any specific examples? Generally, when people are trying to legitimise thier cause they look to people who'll give their views an heir of respectability and rationality - not somebody who parades in comic representation of the worst claims made about them.