ClosingADoor
Member
Because PewDiePie is a millionaire with the message of: look at what these people do for $5! Isn't that unbelievable!
It's pretty easy to see why that is a problem.
Disney cuts ties with PewDiePie after he posts antisemetic videos
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It's pretty easy to see why that is a problem.
I really don't think so. PewDiePie's bread and butter is the community he built over the years. He doesn't need the mainstream media, never did. And when they write something about him, it's often condescending or framed as a peculiarity. "Watch this youtuber make 5 millions a year, isn't it weird ?" or "PewDiePie is deleting his channel, apparently because he is white???" is usually the gist of it. I don't think that helps him at all. I'm sure it helps them get click though.
He explains about one video, not the videos that WSJ intentionally started with without ever providing context and leaving it at that, suggesting he just puts images of hitler randomly in his videos without reason.
Mind you, I consider WSJ a reputable source. I just think they did not do a good job in this particular situation.
ClosingADoor
Member
Mainstream attention = advertiser attention = money. Name recognition in the mainstream is worth a lot.
Link to the article where someone reported he deleted his channel because he is white? Doubt it are the same media people in here complain about at the moment.
He is explaining his sense of humor later on, which can then also be applied to the other images in the video.
Well, even if we take their apology video at face value, their argument was that they did not know what "jews" meant. That still means they knew they were saying "kill all -blank-". I personally highly doubt that they didn't know what they had written down, but even then you'd think they would research what they were writing to kill all of?
It is pretty dishonest to just show this image for example
while excluding that he apparently told people to not do this. The WSJ really goes out of it's way to remove the context from the videos and portrays it like he just has randomly nazi imagery appear.
"Jews" could have theoretically meant anything.
I just take exception to your assumptions, and you calling these people "stupid" for not knowing English well enough or possibly having other educational deficiencies. It's an ugly look.
ClosingADoor
Member
You are then ignoring the text that is in that image. The point is that using that type of content may still be celebrated by hate groups.
"red pilled" who comes up with these idiotic terms?
seriously, a generation raised on video games, films and anime is starting to create its own reality.
Gravy Boat
Member
They offered it as a service though. It's not like he went around soliciting poor people to see how desperate they are for money. He found these two guys who offered to do whatever was asked for $5 for their youtube channel, and he took them up on their offer. Him being a millionaire is absolutely irrelevant because anyone with $5 could have done the same thing with the same results. People are bringing wealth into it to make it seem like the big bad wealthy white man exploited the poor minorities when that's not the case. He paid for a service they offered. Before anyone tries twisting my words, I'm not defending PDP either, just saying that the Fiverr Funny Guys shouldn't be painted as innocent victims.
If I offered a 'I'll do anything for $5' service and you requested I punch a guy because he's an asshole and I did it, I would be as if not more responsible for that than you would. If I sold you drugs and we both got caught by the police, I'd be the one in trouble as I'm the one offering the service.
ClosingADoor
Member
And he is literally saying that... I mean, he is a celebrity. People report on things you say, so take that into account when producing your content.
I just don't agree with this sentiment of some what PewDiePie is somehow a victim of the media.
So because someone offers a service, you are in no way responsible for how you are using that service and how the one offering it might not be in a position to decline?
The text is about apologies, he wasn't apologizing in that video, he was pointing out to his community that they shouldn't do this in his game.
It's like saying that the WSJ now glorifies nazi imagery because it appeared in their video about PDP
Yep. This is the same outlet that was quoted in the other thread about this that was closed btw. And their current article about this situation claims he paid the Jesus guy to say something offensive, which is plainly false.
ClosingADoor
Member
That is the thing the quote is talking about if you don't get hung up on technicalities. It's pretty clear to me at least.
Gravy Boat
Member
You're twisting my words. I didn't say PDP wasn't responsible, I said both parties are. And how do you know they're not in a position to decline? Where is this assumption that they're poor coming from?
The quality of the satire and the care it's employed with matter a great deal.
PDP failing on both counts greatly effects the amount of rope he should be given. Just doing something wrong and saying "it was a joke" isn't enough to avoid criticism.
staticneuron
Member
That is what gets me about all of this. I don't follow this guy, so I had no idea how out of context they are showing this.
That is a paper thin point of view to hold. There were nazi imagery in Indiana Jones and Hellboy. Does that mean that the film makerse really support antisemitic views despite the Nazi's being villains?
I don't know about you, but out of morbid curiosity I have visited hate sites before. They don't show racist and nazi imagery then apologize. There is no apologizing going on actually, just stead fast views that sound alot like some sort of dogmata.
The point is, all of the text along with the video they showed was clear misrepresentation. And seemingly done on purpose.
ClosingADoor
Member
I'm going out on a limb here and guess the guys offering a service for $5 from India for video production are not on the same level as the millionaire living in central London.
Indiana Jones and Hellboy are movies where that is used for the setting. PewDiePie uses it as a central thing in his video. "Look guys, you can do this, but don't because it is bad!" It is not necessarily bad, racist or antisemitic, but don't go complaining when people take offense and it gets reported on.
But it was obviously a joke regardless of quality, so "doing something wrong" doesn't apply here at all.
You realize they didn't even showed the actual segment or the actual quote where he "blames" Youtube for it for being white. Like, the video and quote they quoted were entirelly different from that lol. He literally does not state what the title of the article says he states.
Well yeah he is saying that, in his most sarcastic voice in a 10 minutes video. Meanwhile they try so hard to remove all context by cutting this 15 seconds clip and using the quotes to write an article about it. It's completely disingenuous.
My point is, the media didn't wait for him to make antisemitic jokes to write shit about him. This is just the perfect opportunity for them to continue. Now maybe that's on PewDiePie for giving them even more ammunitions to do so.
You can feel that way, but others don't.
Louis CK is generally well crafted, biting, considered satire. That's not the same as just throwing out hate speech for the sake of shock.
ClosingADoor
Member
So all media are now bad because this one outlet reported in a way you don't agree with? That is mostly my problem here. By all means, if you don't agree with an outlet and its reporting, point out the article and say so. All fine. But the talk by people I quoted earlier is that somehow "the media" are out to get him, which is simply untrue.
Gravy Boat
Member
That doesn't mean they're poor though. You're literally assuming that they're so poor that they need to offer this service in order to survive, when you have no reason to do so other than 'They're from India', which in itself is slightly racist. It doesn't matter if they're not on the same level as a millionaire, there's no evidence that these guys are living below the poverty line for where they live, or that they're stuggling to make ends meet.
If there's anything that's come to light that has shown that these guys are indeed poor as shit, and this is their main source of income then I will happily conceed that PDP was taking advantage. But at the minute it just looks like they do this for fun, for the sake or promoting their youtube channel. The fact that PDP is a millionaire is completely irrelevant as the situation would be no better or worse if this 'challenge' was set by someone spending the last $5 they had.
They clearly had access to the internet, they should have checked what it meant. They knew they could be saying something horrible. Ignorance doesn't excuse racism anyway, but I'm pretty sure they know more english than they're letting on. They're on an english website, communicating with people in english in written form. And also talking pretty alright english.
Now let's make one thing clear, I never called them stupid for not knowing english. I called them stupid for not declining the request and for getting themselves banned. Just like it was stupid for PDP to not edit this bit out. Doing something stupid doesn't make the person stupid.
If you watch the video it seems pretty clear to me that the text is referring to the clip they were showing a second earlier where PDP says that he isn't a nazi. They just threw in the image to underline the idea again that PDP has randomly nazi imagery appear in his videos.
Hell, they even cut out the audio so you don't know what PDP is saying in that instance.
Read what he wrote because it also applies to you:
It is pretty dishonest to just show this image for example
while excluding that he apparently told people to not do this. The WSJ really goes out of it's way to remove the context from the videos and portrays it like he just has randomly nazi imagery appear.
What the wsj did is nontheless disgusting but you dont care about it because PDP is "excusing Antisemistic behavior."
Btw Social science student here: humans love hatebubbles and humans love to hate a potrayal-not the real thing, but a selfcreated simplistic image- of a group or a person. It is in out nature. But realizing that can help one immensly adjusting bis own impulses
This and the other already closed thread making my head spin because I thought better of neogaf, but yeah, the image-realzis difference
These have improved greatly, excellent visual representation of everything thats happened.
If alt-right fascists approve of your message, your attempt at satire has failed.
Snowybreak
Member
I'll go even further and say that this is just the equivalent of an AM Saturday morning shock-jock. No substance, and the "humor" isn't really all that funny. It's not even made to be funny, it's made to be edgy.
I don't think people say "media" as generalising all media. Just that a plurality of outlets have handled this particular somewhat dishonestly. I don't even think WSJ is bad at all, I just think they messed up in this particular instance. They continue to being a reputable news source despite that.
Hence outrage culture.
Not really, but OK, whatever you want to go with...
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Thats bullshit. How is PDP excusing it if he explicitly detests against it and says not to do that.
Wait, is there any time where satire isn't viewed as satire by some people? How is that proof that the satire failed? People can be dumb asses and take all sorts of jokes seriously. It has happened since jokes were invented. Mind you, PewDiePie attemp was shit, but people taking your joke or satire seriously has nothing do with either it fails or not. People have been dumb and continue to be fucking dumb and misinterpret things. The Charlie Hebdgo child refugee drawing for example : one of the most obvious showing of satire i've seen in my entire life, and many people still didn't get it.
Sorry forgot the " "
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
What's funny about that defense is how pathetic an entertainer has to be to resort to those kinds of jokes. It's rock bottom garbage, regardless of anything else. Amazing that that kid has such an audience but not the talent or good sense to stick to actual good jokes worth that audience's time, without the need to be a shitheel.
Man...this is it how your sentence sounds like to me. No closer look, no second thought, just really toxic letting off some steam
You now hurt the feelings of a random stranger
How do you proceed:
[ ]I dont give a fuck about you and I dont have the time to look any closer
[ ]I already looked pretty closly and PDP is still subhuman scum
It is pretty dishonest to just show this image for example
while excluding that he apparently told people to not do this. The WSJ really goes out of it's way to remove the context from the videos and portrays it like he just has randomly nazi imagery appear.
Y'know, this got me thinking.
could it be that both parties, him and his fans, influenced each other? we know he likes to keep in touch with his fans, and with a fanbase as big as his, there will certainly be jokes of such nature, which makes him think that his Fanbase is okay with those jokes, and makes him use them in his videos.
This on the other hand invites more people to join in in making nazi jokes, which pushes him further, thinking that he found the kind of humor he and his fans like.
So, the entire thing leads to nazi jokes being "normalized" in the "PewdiePie-Community", where it becomes a silly thing for the core-community, but horrible for the other 48-(?) Million people subscribed to him, but not regularly following his stuff.
Disclaimer: I am not defending him on what he did, i never will. I am just thinking about how he managed to reach that point. Those are things that also need to be talked about imo. Most of the time the cause of an problem is just as important as the problem itself.
Finale Fireworker
Member
"Death to all Jews" is not a joke. Simply saying something outrageous is not a joke. This is a classic thing that people do - they do something outrageous that upsets people and then scoff and say "it was just a joke" or "it was a social experiment."
I'll be clear: I don't think anything PewDiePie has done confirms he is an antisemite. I think, as an exceedingly privileged individual, he believed something like this would be harmless. Oppressive and dehumanizing language usually doesn't impact the speaker. White people dont usually feel the sting of "nigger" and straight people don't have their stomach churn at "faggot." So they use these terms freely because they don't impact them and they become perfectly reasonable fodder for supposed humor.
There's a scene in Reign Over Me (the terrible Adam Sandler 9/11 movie) where Don Cheadle tells Adam Sandler not to say faggot because it's offensive. Adam Sandler says it's only offensive if you're gay, then calls him a faggot again.
People who aren't affected by hate speech think hate speech is funny. This is a problem. This is PewDiePie's problem.
You do not get a free pass to say or do something offensive and then say it was a joke or an experiment. You, from your position of privilege and comfort, do not get to decide what is appropriate for others to get upset about. This is not "outrage culture." There is no such thing as "outrage culture." In the digital age, people's actions and words go much further. They reach hundreds or thousands or even millions of people. People need to learn that jokes you make privately with your friends, in an understanding context, are not the same when the whole world hears them. You can't say something inappropriate in front of millions of people and not expect millions of them to be mad. There are jokes I make on a daily basis between close friends that would get me sued by the ACLU. I don't post them on NeoGAF because people would be disgusted, offended, and condemn me.
That's not "outrage culture." That's reality.
My post wasn't about the fallibility of the art of satire or its ability to be misconstrued, in this particular case there doesn't seem to be any.
Messofanego
Banned
Since some of you are going to the hilt over defending PDP's bad antisemitic jokes and railing against WSJ, can you defend this joke?
The website fiverr is Israel-based. A person playing as Jesus gives out a message of "Hitler did nothing wrong".
"Can I just point out it's a little bit ironic that Jews somehow found another way to fuck Jesus over?"
The website fiverr is Israel-based. A person playing as Jesus gives out a message of "Hitler did nothing wrong".
"Can I just point out it's a little bit ironic that Jews somehow found another way to fuck Jesus over?"
Don't mistake railing against WSJ with defending PDP's jokes. I think he clearly crossed some lines, but the WSJ article also misrepresented the situation.
Since some of you are going to the hilt over defending PDP's bad antisemitic jokes and railing against WSJ, can you defend this joke?
The website fiverr is Israel-based. A person playing as Jesus gives out a message of "Hitler did nothing wrong".
"Can I just point out it's a little bit ironic that Jews somehow found another way to fuck Jesus over?"
nono, you see, he was making a comment on how Keemstar is so racist.
staticneuron
Member
It's almost as if people believe that bad jokes and misrepresentation are like the same exact thing.
I do not subscribe to PDP. Do not find him funny. I got this news from GAF. With the information provided, made a judgement call. After seeing H3H3 videos went back and actually watched two of the videos in question and without a doubt, PDP was misrepresented and seemingly done on purpose.
Peroroncino
Member
Pretty much this is where I'm at. Joke was bad, but WSJ purposefully misrepresented the whole situation, they took it out of context (yes, the context being an extremely bad joke, but a joke nonetheless) and even went as far as adding some sad music to make it more shocking for somebody who doesn't even know what the video was originally about.
Finale Fireworker
Member
It's quite obvious, really. Jesus wasn't even killed by Jews. He was, after all, King of the Jews. That's the tell. That's the crack in the facade that tells us to look deeper. PDP's comment about the King of the Jews being screwed over by his own followers is actually meta-commentary about himself. It's actually a deep and complex joke. PDP is holding up a dark mirror of introspection here and seeing himself consumed by hubris. The things he does for his followers, or his "Jews", ultimately screws him over. His sense of responsibility is still misplaced though, as he blames his followers for his undoing, not his actions to appease them. But we see a PDP on the precipice of realization. He is finally realizing that his quest to entertain his followers has come at the expense of his own soul.
I can't believe you didn't get this. It's all so obvious. It's just a joke, dude. Outrage culture at its finest. Don't forget to like and subscribe and visit my website for more.
♪ PewDiePie, superstar, do you think you're what they say you are?
PewDiePie, Jesus Christ, who are you, what have you sacrificed? ♪
No, he can't, and it's not. They reported what he said, "leaving out context" isn't libel.
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