Logan |OT| Children of (X)Men (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter MMarston
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I just got out of the movie, and it was terribly disappointing. The movie was doing pretty well up until the casino, and then it just got ridiculous:
- At the Hotel room, the whole movie comes to a complete stop while they play clips of an old western for multiple minutes just to blatantly set up Laura's speech at the end of the movie.
- Instead of having Logan ride the elevator up and then have Charles cause everyone to freeze, they decide to have it happen when he's just outside the hotel, then struggle to walk to the elevator, then ride the elevator up to the 14th floor, and then spend a long ass time working his way down the hallway and into the room. That's probably at least a 5 minute trip. Meanwhile they had made it clear earlier that it almost killed Caliban in about a minute in Mexico.
- "Logan, we should stop to round up horses."
- "Logan, we should definitely stay the night at these poor innocent's house. I'm sure nothing bad will happen to them."
- X24 is a mindless killing machine, but he stands there for the entirety of Charles' speech.
- The terrible explanation about how they built rage into X24.
- They get to Eden and every single child has managed to not only escape the facility, but to make it over the border from Mexico and all the way to Eden. Not even one staff member or other adult was there with them when Logan and Laura arrived. This retrospectively makes you wonder how the staff managed to extricate every single child from a secure military facility. Then you think back and realize the Mexican nurse had 20k US cash in an envelope that she "stole from her boyfriend" rendering that whole plot thread ridiculous.
- X24 dying from a single gunshot to the head. Apparently one adamantium bullet was all you ever needed to stop Wolverine.
- The speech from the western I had been waiting for since the hotel room followed by the eye roll inducing cross pulled up from the ground to be placed as an X instead.
- Canada...
- At the Hotel room, the whole movie comes to a complete stop while they play clips of an old western for multiple minutes just to blatantly set up Laura's speech at the end of the movie.
- Instead of having Logan ride the elevator up and then have Charles cause everyone to freeze, they decide to have it happen when he's just outside the hotel, then struggle to walk to the elevator, then ride the elevator up to the 14th floor, and then spend a long ass time working his way down the hallway and into the room. That's probably at least a 5 minute trip. Meanwhile they had made it clear earlier that it almost killed Caliban in about a minute in Mexico.
- "Logan, we should stop to round up horses."
- "Logan, we should definitely stay the night at these poor innocent's house. I'm sure nothing bad will happen to them."
- X24 is a mindless killing machine, but he stands there for the entirety of Charles' speech.
- The terrible explanation about how they built rage into X24.
- They get to Eden and every single child has managed to not only escape the facility, but to make it over the border from Mexico and all the way to Eden. Not even one staff member or other adult was there with them when Logan and Laura arrived. This retrospectively makes you wonder how the staff managed to extricate every single child from a secure military facility. Then you think back and realize the Mexican nurse had 20k US cash in an envelope that she "stole from her boyfriend" rendering that whole plot thread ridiculous.
- X24 dying from a single gunshot to the head. Apparently one adamantium bullet was all you ever needed to stop Wolverine.
- The speech from the western I had been waiting for since the hotel room followed by the eye roll inducing cross pulled up from the ground to be placed as an X instead.
- Canada...
So that wooden fort place is where Eden would have been. They obviously didn't find anything there so they built it themselves. Then, they had the goal of escaping to Canada once Laura caught up with them.
I never really liked any of the previous 'X' films from Fox including Deadpool. The first Singer film was an enjoyable romp and First Class was also good fun. I thought Deadpool was pretty unique but ultimately lightweight fun.
Everything else? I never really cared for any of it. Which is why I was so surprised by Logan. Not only did I think Logan was excellent...,
Everything else? I never really cared for any of it. Which is why I was so surprised by Logan. Not only did I think Logan was excellent...,
-- I cried at the end of this film.
The GPS coordinate was in North Dakota. I think they just took the idea from the comic to meet there, before crossing the border.
I disagree with most of this which is fine but the they straight up showed in the middle of the movie X24's healing factor isn't that great when they gave him that shot with the green stuff. I don't think he matched Logan's healing factor when he was in his prime or younger days at all.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Bad guys were pretty crappy again.
The head Reaver basically did nothing but graze a kid with a bullet the whole movie.
The head Reaver basically did nothing but graze a kid with a bullet the whole movie.
The Hotel room movie makes sense when you consider that a) the entire movie is a Western and b) the plot of Western that they're watching.
This I can agree with -- the Reavers are supposed to be pretty intimidating, especially in the comics. They're essentially random meat shields in this movie...
This I can agree with -- the Reavers are supposed to be pretty intimidating, especially in the comics. They're essentially random meat shields in this movie...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It was Shane. Came out back in 1953.
It's typically regarded as one of the best westerns ever made. "Come back, Shane!" became a pop-culture reference for awhile there.
A bunch of people are probably gonna check it out this weekend, I'd imagine.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's a thing that's always gone on, but it seems a little exacerbated lately due to a cottage industry of secondary media/enthusiast press on YouTube for whom that's considered not just a valid form of criticism, but the primary one.
It teaches people to watch movies not so much to watch them, but to compete with them. "I bet I'm smarter than you, and I bet you're going to do something I wouldn't have done, and I'm going to tell everyone how you fucked that up when I get back to my keyboard after this."
RipperGrim
Member
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yeah it feels like everyone is too obsessed with canon consistency. Like if Xavier's seizures were so powerful at one point, how come they aren't as powerful in another? Xavier is unstable, consistency is the last thing you should expect from someone who can't control his powers. Not everything has to fit neatly and avoid contradicting anything written on the wookiepedia page.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I thought the movie was excellent, by far the best xmen movie to me. Glad it got the push to be rated R too, it definitely helped.
Yeah he at least had a personality, which is better than most villains these days.
Oddly enough, I watched the movie a couple of years back in a Hollywood Cinema class, and that kid became a running joke among us students for a bit.
Shaaaaaaannnne
ryutaro's mama
Member
Greatest walk off ending in comic book history.
I see now why Stewart and Jackman are done.
Fantastic Western masquerading as a comic book movie...And smfh @ all the TLOU stupid ass memes references in regards to this film.
GTFOOH...All of you.
I see now why Stewart and Jackman are done.
Fantastic Western masquerading as a comic book movie...And smfh @ all the TLOU stupid ass memes references in regards to this film.
GTFOOH...All of you.
ZackieChan
Member
Didn't read the whole thread, but did anyone correct Bobby's incorrect description of why the mutants died out? Richard E. Grant says that they started to add something to food and other consumables to correct the genetics or something, so that they could have control over who becomes a mutant. Or did I interpret that scene incorrectly?
Edit: also, it's fucking great to see Richard E Grant and Eriq LaSalle on screen again.
Edit: also, it's fucking great to see Richard E Grant and Eriq LaSalle on screen again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
CitizenVectron
Member
RipperGrim
Member
I really like that Logan and Xaver's last moments weren't cliche long speeches, they were barely coherent which is what someone dying would most probably be like. Also it's harsh that Logan never got to find out Xaviers words before he got stabbed.
Yeah I liked Logan tryna tell Charles "it wasn't me" but it not being clear if Charles understood or believed him.
CitizenVectron
Member
One thing I heard before the movie came out was that Mr. Sinister was the main bad guy. Where did that rumour come from?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, we went over that upthread
Thing is, almost everything about the event itself isn't made explicitly clear, and also isn't even really the point of the storytelling, either. It's just a bunch of vague allusions to stuff in the past. The closest we get to a solid description of what exactly happened is Charles apologizing at the farmhouse, and Rice monologuing in North Dakota.
Charles is considered a weapon of mass destruction. There are no more mutants outside of the three we see. The lab is creating them now, and no new ones have been born for decades.
It seems safe to assume Charles had a seizure at one point in the past that killed a lot of mutants, and that Rice's genetic tomfoolery prevented any new ones from being born. It's not like he only had the one seizure, I'm betting. Just that the first one he had was the one that really fucked things up. He keeps having them after that event (including two of them in this movie), hence Logan hustling for that medication.
Apocalypse's stupid stinger.
Stingers are stupid, btw.
The thing about Canada is that the kids are like, "we just need to get to the border" and the bionically enhanced, no law, obsessed Texan guy with a literal army of weapons and endless disposable soldiers and superpowered mutant(s) is like, "we've got to stop them before they get to the border".
As in, after being cool with torturing and murdering random people (e.g. gas station dude) up and down both Mexico and the United States they're going to just stop at the Canadian border.
Clearly the only explanation is that Magneto and all the surviving mutants have joined forces with Trudeau to turn Canada into a giant armed fortress with a Game of Thrones styles wall. One of those people was the one you heard on the radio the kid was using.
As in, after being cool with torturing and murdering random people (e.g. gas station dude) up and down both Mexico and the United States they're going to just stop at the Canadian border.
Clearly the only explanation is that Magneto and all the surviving mutants have joined forces with Trudeau to turn Canada into a giant armed fortress with a Game of Thrones styles wall. One of those people was the one you heard on the radio the kid was using.
Have to process some feelings.
Overall I think I was satisfied, but the character and look of X-24 didn't sit well with me. But I realize it has poetic narrative meaning having the killer look like the protagonist. And the fights between he and logan were nuts. Extremely visceral and violent. The cast did great together. LIttle Spanish kid was really great. Just sad I'm not gonna see Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman as those characters again.
Overall I think I was satisfied, but the character and look of X-24 didn't sit well with me. But I realize it has poetic narrative meaning having the killer look like the protagonist. And the fights between he and logan were nuts. Extremely visceral and violent. The cast did great together. LIttle Spanish kid was really great. Just sad I'm not gonna see Patrick Stewart and Hugh Jackman as those characters again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And someone said nobody cares about Puck anymore.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
This movie was great. The action sequences were brutal and amazing to watch. They didn't tone it down for Laura and that helped sell even more just how violent a kid that the audience would be watching.
They should just continue with Laura for any Wolverine needs. The actress is young and talented, you could have a entire series of movies about her growing up ahead of you provided nothing gets messed up.
They should just continue with Laura for any Wolverine needs. The actress is young and talented, you could have a entire series of movies about her growing up ahead of you provided nothing gets messed up.
ZackieChan
Member
The radio lady says 7 mutants were killed, iirc. That's wiping them all out?
The timeline is a total mess. Mutants stopped being born 25 years ago, but the evil lab starting creating mutants at least ten years ago. Charles had his first seizure one year ago, or at least the one that forced Logan to smuggle him to Mexico. Also the Reaver guy hasn't had any mutants to hunt for at least a year, since Caliban left (they just let him go?) to help care for X a year ago.
So, in this metaphor, the radiation precedes the bomb by twenty five years? Is that how bombs work?
So, in this metaphor, the radiation precedes the bomb by twenty five years? Is that how bombs work?
ZackieChan
Member
You should start a YouTube series with shittily-drawn cartoons pointing out these plot holes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's unclear what the radio lady is talking about. Most everything is unclear. Sorta like how nobody knows what caused the apocalypse in The Road. It doesn't really matter.
And it's not a "oh, you just don't want to admit you're wrong" thing because I've admitted (and apologized) for misrememberings & mistakes in the thread already. Like Brakke pointed out - shit is confusing. It's probably intentionally confusing. Plus I've only had the one viewing, and it was over a week ago.
But it really does seem like the movie is absolutely trying to push the notion that Charles killed most of the mutants on accident with one of his seizures, and Wolverine barely survived it. How many other seizures has there been? How many other hiding places have they holed up in?
(shrug) who knows. Movie doesn't say straight out. Because it's not really the focus of the film. It's continuity bullshit in a movie that doesn't give a shit about continuity.
In that metaphor, sure. It's a fuckin' metaphor.
So questions:
- What was wrong with Charles and how did Wolverine get poisoned? I understood they gave it to him, was that before the first X-MEN? WIf so, why did the poison start killing him so long after?
- Is the movie not in the universe of the 3 X-men mobies considering no mention of Magneto (he seemingly started getting his powers back in the end of X-men 3)?
- Who was Lauras mother?
- What was wrong with Charles and how did Wolverine get poisoned? I understood they gave it to him, was that before the first X-MEN? WIf so, why did the poison start killing him so long after?
- Is the movie not in the universe of the 3 X-men mobies considering no mention of Magneto (he seemingly started getting his powers back in the end of X-men 3)?
- Who was Lauras mother?
- Charles was suffering from degenerative brain disease. The problem is that opens a whole new can of worms considering he has a super-powered brain. Logan on the other is merely suffering from aging aka his regenerating powers are wearing off. On that note, the side effects of Adamntium radiation are now taking effect on him.
- It's post-DOFP -- some things are different, some things are the same, but in this case, X3 didn't happen.
- Doesn't matter - it was stated in the phone video brief that she was an expendable random.
What is the exact problem with the timeline here?
Thanks!
Overall, really enjoyed the movie. Had to tell myself not to cry, but I think I shed a tear and got gosebumps by the ending.
Just got back from this...WOW! Absolutely loved it. My kind of superhero movie. Brutal, violent, depressing, well acted and directed. Amazing film. The action scenes were a total adrenaline rush.
It was funny the that a lot of people in the audience just sat quiet and numb when the credits started rolling. I was smiling ear to ear.
It was funny the that a lot of people in the audience just sat quiet and numb when the credits started rolling. I was smiling ear to ear.
Nothing there is inconsistent exactly. But it's weird that it's so unclear and also there's some enormous worldwide event that happened that the movie just skips over entirely. Mutants stopped being born 25 years ago, but now they're all gone. There must've been some kind of worldwide hollocaust against mutants? Which X and some number of X Men just... weren't killed by? And also failed (or didn't even try?) to stop? But also despite people all over the world just kind of letting this extermination happen, they also publish and buy comic books featuring X Men? The fact that we don't know if extermination started before or after sterilization is also weird. I guess the Reaver captain guy is thirty-something, so there were still mutants to hunt as recently as ten years ago. And, again, Charles was living in Westchester with at least a few other mutants as recently as one year ago. So the holocaust was both an exhibition of worldwide brutality but also everyone was just kind of ok with not finishing the job?
It all matters because what are we supposed to make of Chuck in this movie? Dude has a long history in this franchise of putting bazillions of lives at risk for selfish reasons (even in this one, he goes off his meds to "communicate" with Laura, and almost destroys Oklahoma City). What the fuck was Charles doing while the Reavers were running around murdering all his friends and students is a pretty big question that the movie wants to just brush off.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Again, it's continuity-fretting in a movie that doesn't really give a fuck about continuity. The movie doesn't really care much about what happened before it starts past the extent of its emotional effects on the characters. What's important isn't the particulars of how these vague catalysts occurred, it's how those catalysts have affected (and still affect) the characters, and informs their actions.
The questions you're asking largely don't have much to do with how this story plays out. They'd be more relevant for a movie that happens BEFORE this one, but not really for what this one is doing.
I just got back from watching it. This comes really close to beating The Winter Soldier as my favorite superhero movie of all time. (Yeah it beats the Dark Knight)
It's hard to compare Logan to the Winter Soldier or any other comic book movies. Logan is more like an action/drama with a hint of superhero mixed in. It worked really well. Jackman and Stewart gave some of the best performances I've ever seen. At the end I just SAT there in shock. It really felt like the end of an era. I hope one day either Stewart or Jackman may take on the role again. But if not, this is an excellent send-off.
It will be hard for me to watch Logan again, just becauss of how depressing it can get. Most of the time I can't watch movies like that again. But I appreciate how amazing they are.
I cried quite a bit throughout the film. I didn't expect it to hit me so hard. But growing up with these characters would do that to you.
In a way, Logan is the best comic book movie I've ever seen. It has almost everything I ever wanted from a Wolverine movie. It's just a shame that it took us so long to get it and that it might be the last time we see Weapon X in all his glory.
10/10 amazing.
It's hard to compare Logan to the Winter Soldier or any other comic book movies. Logan is more like an action/drama with a hint of superhero mixed in. It worked really well. Jackman and Stewart gave some of the best performances I've ever seen. At the end I just SAT there in shock. It really felt like the end of an era. I hope one day either Stewart or Jackman may take on the role again. But if not, this is an excellent send-off.
It will be hard for me to watch Logan again, just becauss of how depressing it can get. Most of the time I can't watch movies like that again. But I appreciate how amazing they are.
I cried quite a bit throughout the film. I didn't expect it to hit me so hard. But growing up with these characters would do that to you.
In a way, Logan is the best comic book movie I've ever seen. It has almost everything I ever wanted from a Wolverine movie. It's just a shame that it took us so long to get it and that it might be the last time we see Weapon X in all his glory.
10/10 amazing.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Wolvy ain't immortal or invincible, but he is extremely resilient. Even without that, its clear that his adamantium body was beginning to fail him, like how Xavier could still have a degenerative brain disease with his WMD level brain.
LFMartins86
Member
About how the mutants died, they were definitely not all killed by Xavier.
When Pierce is torturing Caliban, he clearly says that Caliban used to track mutants for them so most of them were probably killed by Alkali.
Regarding what's poisoning Logan, it's heavily implied that's the Admantium.
When Pierce is torturing Caliban, he clearly says that Caliban used to track mutants for them so most of them were probably killed by Alkali.
Regarding what's poisoning Logan, it's heavily implied that's the Admantium.
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