andythinkpad
Member
We are already at low intensity civil war.
Vice News: Extremism Experts Are Starting to Worry About the Left
- Thread starter Fudgepuppy
- Start date
We are already at low intensity civil war.
liberals invariably feel as if they hold the higher ground. it hamstrings their action because they think any sort of violence or actively aggressive action is wrong. for example "they go low, we go high." fuck that. kick them in the teeth while they are down. the right has proven they have no compunction to do that when they are in power and not even in the minority.
gutter_trash
Banned
Maximilien Robespierre, a Far-Left nut job who sent his opponents to get executed via guillotine and accused many innocent people of being an opponentI have no idea who this is.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Yeah, that, or brutal authoritarian tyranny and the industrial-scale mass murder of millions.
I'm disturbed that a bunch of posters are echoing your (incorrect) sentiment. I don't think that leftist violence is a huge issue right now, but as a justified reaction to the evil of the right-wing or not, it absolutely could become one in the future.
Hierophant
Banned
"They go low, we go high" = "I'm a giant coward doormat who's too afraid to use dirty tactics out of a sense of 'decency' that my opponent never had"
Yeah, it would suck if the right actually knew what it felt like to be the left, wouldn't it?
The earth would literally fall into chaos right now without the presence of our military in some form. Should it be monetarily reduced? Should a LOT more of our money go towards education and sustenance? Fuck yes. Should the concept of jingoism and nationalism and artificial dividers and made-up bullshit be abandoned by society?
YES.
But the world's too shitty a place to not be capable of defending, by force, 300 million humans that have been allowed to reap the benefits of a massive first-world political state.
In the future, there should be no political borders and people shouldn't be greedy and kill each other out of fear or tradition. Don't know when that will happen. Gotta have some form or preventing idiots from doing whatever they want in the meantime. If some genius comes up with a way to do that in a magically pacifistic yet un-totalitarian manner, let's do it.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
In this case, the bully fucks with the kid, teacher does nothing. Kid's pushed to breaking point, fucks up the bully, and ONLY the kid gets punished, NOT the bully. Bully cries, "Look at how crazy and VIOLENT that kid is! He should be locked up, cause we shouldn't have people like HIM walkin around! A threat to society!" while laughing under his breath. There's a cold, hard look taken at both of them, and the "adults" say the kid is a ticking time bomb of violence, while the bully is misunderstood, just 'kidding around' (boys will be boys) and should gain everybody's sympathy.
That's it in a nutshell.
nephilimdj
Member
Thats not what I said, why qoute me with a generalised rant
Well I guess they're even now and everybody can just chill out and stop making threats.
HA!
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean I don't condone violence like that baseball game shooting if that politician and I've said as much but the ruling elite needs to understand there are far more of us than them and we can't continue to be placated with trinkets and games.
When people can't find jobs. Or the jobs they can find aren't enough to pay the bills or when they can afford a basic standard of living like healthcare shit like this is going to become more and more common. Both ways. Sadly.
When people can't find jobs. Or the jobs they can find aren't enough to pay the bills or when they can afford a basic standard of living like healthcare shit like this is going to become more and more common. Both ways. Sadly.
LMAO, you really have not a single clue of what you are talking about. Robbespierre a leftist? Are you for real? The concept of left and right didn't even exist back then. Robbespierre and his organization, the Jacobins, were the most radical version of the liberal, bourgeois revolution against the old feudalist, monarchic order and tried to prevent a counter-revolution by royalist forces any means necessary (which happened later temporarily) Regardless of how you feel about Robbespierre, he had as much to do with any kind of leftism as Donald Trump with communism.
Exactamundo.
It was mission accomplished when Trump won the primaries. The rest is just gravy.
old manatee
Banned
"When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling timeout, it exposes itself as a ruse."
-Ta-Nehisi Coates
-Ta-Nehisi Coates
IrishNinja
Member
admittedly, Peterson was the only name I was more familiar with of the 3 (and he's a fuckwit) but a cursory search of the other 2 yielded enough ANTI-PC & college campus boogeyman drivel that while academic distinctions can be made about degrees here, none of them seem worth the effort. my thesis point here is that if the "far left" is so inexcusable for taking stands on hate speech/etc, I think it's worth examining who you share that hill with before dying on it.
love this dude, really need to read more of him
Sirpopopop
Member
Or maybe it means, "Hi, let's prove we are better by being better people."
Hierophant
Banned
Why do you have to prove we're better people? We already know that and it's not like they care
Yes, by fighting back against fascism, oppression, racism and all kinds of other shit, you are just as bad as the fascists, racists and Nazis.
By the way, just forget about statistics provided by the state about "leftist extremism" and "leftist violence". In Germany, the overwhelming amount of those offenses are property damage and, even more laughable, people blocking Nazi demonstrations by sitting on the street and getting carried away by police, but liberal and conservative politicians have a vital interest in painting "both sides" as "just as bad". In the eastern states of the former DDR, police and state constantly harass and pursue anti-fascist activists while going easy on actual neo-nazis and their friends in AFD and Pegida. Just read up about the NSU scandal. The so-called amok shooting in Munich last year turned out to be a right-wing terror act, by the way, because there is a mountain of evidence that the guy killed specifically migrants or otherwise brown-looking people because of his racist, Nazi-like views. This has gained next to zero traction in media and the public because the people rather love them some fear mongering about Islamic terrorism.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
The proletariat will rise if they suffer enough and their lives are threatened. We are finally reaching the technological place where a real transition to socialism and later communism is feasible. I welcome a real anti-capitalist, anti-authoritarian, democratic Red Revolution.
This is the fucking United States. You don't have to worry about leftists shoving stock brokers into a Gulag any time soon.
Fear-mongering about left-wing extremism is generally harmful. Even if if not made with the intent of delegitimizing left-wing causes, this kind of rhetoric enables the right... particularly the extreme right, as figures like Gavin McInnes and Richard Spencer derive a lot of their legitimacy from fears of BLM and Antifa and other activist groups.
If some 20-year-old communist posts shooting Nazis, comparing them with white supremacists who actually wish to kill people is not a rational response. Instead, consider why increasing numbers of people are militantly critical of the current state of affairs, and listen to the alternative policies we propose.
TestOfTide
Banned
I'm not saying that the US Military hasn't done some fucked up shit.
But to outright suggest the COMPLETE DISMANTLING of the entire US Military is ridiculous for numerous reasons.
Like, do you really need to me to explain why that suggestion is outright stupid?
Let's basically set the bar for extreme liberalism as "Stalin did nothing wrong."
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Oh, it's you again. I remember you from the article GAF tore apart.
gutter_trash
Banned
Isaac Otherworld
Member
This post gets it.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah that's really coming in handy while hate crimes are on the rise & our administration takes turns normalizing this & stripping our rights
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Nobody is hiding anything under the guise of anything, if someone says something hateful or racist they should be called out for it, not beat up or threatened. That's authoritarian. Suppressing speech through such means is immoral, even if that speech is itself immoral.
Bull fucking shit. Show me where they're apologists for white supremacy or white nationalism.
This isn't a zero sum game, I can both be upset by the nazis on the right and the craziness I see on the left. The article was about leftist extremism. Learn to hold two non-mutually exclusive thoughts simultaneously that might seem contradictory on the surface but aren't under a little scrutiny.
Sirpopopop
Member
You do it to preserve your own sense of self and dignity in the process.
This is to ensure that when we gain power again, we will take steps to ensure that the extremism that lead to the rise of Donald Trump doesn't take hold again. Not become that which we have been fighting against...
Left/right dichotomy emerged out of the French Revolution. Robespierre and his crew can be considered early prototype leftists.
TestOfTide
Banned
You claimed that the shooter was one of the people who protested at Trump's rallies (even though there is absolutely no evidence of that):
And you even tried to claim that it was the protesters at those Trump rallies who were violent (hint: you have it backwards).
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
History has shown that far-left groups that completely embrace an "ends justify the means" approach become monstrous. This hasn't just happened once, but again and again.
Maybe you, personally, will use whatever tactics necessary (including violence and killing) to implement your desired policies, and then revert to being a decent human being. But others won't stop there.
None of that exists in America
you got those sources yet?
gutter_trash
Banned
planet Earth is more than just America
it was a motion not a bill, it's not law
jackissocool
Member
If our standard is that political violence is unacceptable under all circumstances, then absolutely. Is that the standard you want?
While hegemony under the United States is probably less violent than an apolar system, our imperialistic domination of 90% of the world's people has led to so much suffering and bloodshed that any reaction other than relentless criticism absolves America of war crimes. Both historically and currently, the US military has served as the vanguard of the American business elite, protecting investments through mass violence in the global south and turning the Middle East into a pockmarked wasteland in hopes of appeasing our Saudi and Israeli allies.
Ideally, the military power currently monopolized by the United States would be assumed by a transnational body free from chauvinism or the influence of profit. This way, the world's people could enjoy the freedoms such as national self-determination and the current Pax Americana without the risk of being massacred because American capitalists want their resources.
I get what you're trying to say, but remember that leftism and liberalism aren't the same thing. American conceptions of politics are totally fucked, but a liberal is a capitalist who opposes attempts to inhibit the private sphere. While liberalism has given us many of the liberal values we all cherish, also requisite of liberalism is the defense of wage labor and economic inequality. Since the '20s, left-wing liberals have followed the Keynesian model, which retreats from the classical liberal rhetoric of the right in its optimism about state intervention and warnings against inequality. More recently, left-wing liberals look increasingly similar to right-wing liberals when it comes to economics. While Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan obviously disagree about a lot of important issues, they have a shared belief that free trade and low taxes and a strong upper class are effects that we should strive for.
While some people might call Bernie and Corbyn "extremist liberals", they're some of the most illiberal politicians in the West given their criticism of capitalism. Anybody who outright advocates the overthrow of capitalism (and thus, the abolition of liberal politics) is not a liberal. Socialists and left-wing liberals only resemble each other because they have a shared opposition to racism, misogyny, and homophobia. Socialists go a step beyond in their opposition to economic, as well as identitarian, inequality, and generally identify capitalism as interconnected with other forms of social oppression.
I think it's accurate to say that old Max and and the gang function as proto-leftists in the wider scheme of things since the bourgeoisie was a historically progressive class in the fight against the aristocracy. The Leninists were certainly fans of the Jacobins.
so no receipts, cool
I'm confused. I thought Antifa was a group, or collection of groups, that self identify as anarchists.
What are considered "dirty tactics" to you?
The post was about just America, as is this thread so....
gutter_trash
Banned
No, he can't. Nothing in what he did or what he wanted to achieve has anything to with what radical leftism is about. Radical leftism originated with the birth of Marxism and anarchism, or anti-capitalism in general .
History has also shown that fundamental change and toppling of oppressing structures is rarely achieved by peaceful talking and asking very nicely. You are just all about negative peace, which is nothing else than arguing for the status quo.
harriet the spy
Member
We have our own GAF member with the coffinhal monicker who loves to engage with college level polisci.
That's a good point. They've really proved they don't care.