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[prag16]

facts

I'm kind of confused by the handful of posts asserting that gaf has all along been some kind of alt-right bigot bastion for months/years.

Again, set the bar low enough, and charges like this lose all meaning.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm kind of confused by the handful of posts asserting that gaf has all along been some kind of alt-right bigot bastion for months/years.

Again, set the bar low enough, and charges like this lose all meaning.

And set the racism/bigotry bar so high like many conservatives do and you can never criticize anything. Racist doesn't exist to many people unless someone is throwing around the word nigger and burning flags.

 

[Fercho]

It's hard to fight for a community when the owner of the community effectively said he doesn't want you and you don't want him

Why would you fight for a community owned by someone you fundamentally disagree with and want don't want to contribute to? It would be one thing if he have up power but instead it went the opposite direction. He destroyed the community not the users

If only was as easy in the US as to just pack up and create a new country free of racism and bigotry many minorities would quickly take that option.

The thing is that the community and the environment that it creates matters more than one person.

Being deemed as "toxic", "eco-chamber" , "intolerant" by the imbeciles on the right was actually a sign that we were doing something right.

Actually i kinda admire that aspect of the right, they don't eat each other, i wish we where like that.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

What really bothers and makes me feel disappointed about the whole situation is all the users who said "fuck it" and committed account suicide, paving the way by all these new MAGA/Alt-Right assholes coming out of the rocks.

Instead of staying a fight for the community. This is classic of the "left" in the USA as a whole, not only in GAF , instead of fighting hard and taking a stand, they just say "fuck it" and move on to some other place where they feel confortable.

I'll say that my appreciation of what this site was is too much for me to just give up and stop posting. I'm really hoping things will normalize and it will be more like it was last week than it is right now

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I guess my issue is that sometimes it seems that any opinion that deviates -- even a little -- from the default liberal platform is defined as "questioning people's humanity" or arguing over their "right to exist." Maybe I'm being overly generous, but I think a person can have conservative opinions or tendencies and not necessarily be an irredeemable bigot. There are black republicans that presumably believe they and their families have the right to exist.

Because liberals understand and recognize dog whistles

So when someone like you who toes the more centrist point of view, you give those on the right the benefit of the doubt because what they are seeing seems benign.

People on the left are more apt to identify and see the undertone of what a lot of people don't recognize as racist/sexist/homophobic remarks that are just wrapped up in less threatening language.

This isn't a dig to you or anything, it's how stuff like identify politics works and how movements operate, people on the alt right/white supremacist talk openly with each other about attempting to hide their goals with more publicly palatable talking points.

So when you see something that doesn't look all that extreme get it's head bitten off, more often than not it's someone going crazy, it's a dog whistle getting pointed out and promptly discredited. Now if the person who wrote the dog whistle or coded language understand the hidden meaning of what they said is a different question.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

I'm not going to defend every ban enacted by the mods and I do think they went over the top sometimes. But that certainly shouldn't have resulted in the entire OT being burned down and all political/social discourse being permanently banned from NeoGAF.

A discussion was due that would have shaped the future of the forum to better serve everyone and their opinions, so long as those opinions weren't hateful. Instead, entire communities were purged and no longer feel welcome. It was a failure of moderation from the highest level. Evilore absolutely failed to do his job as the administrator of the forum. Killing OT and blaming "the last year of politics" doesn't work when you did absolutely nothing to preserve the right kind of discourse in that last year.

This is the tough part though: if you want to be fair, you have to have a clear idea of what hate is and it constantly changes.

To wit, I've been a fairly outspoken atheist most of my life and while I've long since retired from those kind of debates, the rules have definitely changed.

It used to be that I ragged very hard on religions for very good reason and liberal voices were generally in assent about this. Today, you've got to be very careful which religions you criticise: some are still fair game, but others will get you slapped with a 'hate speech' label right off the bat.

It can be hard to draw clear lines in such complex matters. Hence why an absolute defense of free speech has always been the cornerstone of intellectual discourse: better to discuss and dismiss bad - even offensive - ideas than potentially silence good ones.

 

[Drackhorn]

GAF has been overmoderated to an absurd degree.

For example, the following post got me insta-banned for a month.

I'm not a sexist, I'm not a gamergater, I'm not even a conservative. I was just asking a fucking question. I'm not afraid to say that shit needs to stop. It's a discussion forum for god's sake.

Being gay didn't mean shit either. Try to be gay and have a centralist political view, you still were getting dogpiled and mods did zilch on OldGaf. Good riddance of the mods I say. Let them have their own snakepit.

 

[vonStirlitz]

[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]

 

[Elegant Weapon]

bad ideas where dismissed but you didn't like it

 

[Drackhorn]

bad ideas where dismissed but you didn't like it

Bullshit.

 

[prag16]

And set the racism/bigotry bar so high like many conservatives do and you can never criticize anything. Racist doesn't exist to many people unless someone is throwing around the word nigger and burning flags.

I'm not arguing for either extreme.

 

[Via Purifico]

I haven't even seen any of these posters allude to their being a magically nuanced place for major discussion in the geek community outside of this. Penny Arcade is decent enough, relatively but where is this utopia where rightwing opinions on social issues are expressed respectably and with nuance?

But to have so many say that OT was sooooo toxic like the rest of the internet isn't way worse? It's disingenuous as hell

It is disingenuous and OT wasn't all politics, mental health gaf was there too and a source of support and just venting.


Just because some folks mainly just lurked or posted in those paces doesn't mean that was the entirety of OT.

 

[Fercho]

Being gay didn't mean shit either. Try to be gay and have a centralist political view, you still were getting dogpiled and mods did zilch on OldGaf. Good riddance of the mods I say. Let them have their own snakepit.

The meaning of the "centralist" changed over the past year, specially in the USA. If you don't agree you haven't been paying attention. You can't be a centralist when the other side is talking racism & bigotry.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Bullshit.

so it was the good ideas that were dismissed?

 

[Drackhorn]

The meaning of the "centralist" changed over the pass year, specially in the USA. If you don't agree you haven't been paying attention. You can't be a centralist when the other side is talking racism & bigotry.

What happened is that the mods let the site be claimed by a particular polical viewpoint and everything outside it was either 'alt-right' helper or wrongspeak. Racism and bigotry have no place here, but mods went on al allout powertrip.

 

[prag16]

Now if the person who wrote the dog whistle or coded language understand the hidden meaning of what they said is a different question.

Wait wait wait, stop stop stop.

So if somebody says something that somebody else interprets as a "dog whistle", it's automatically game over? It doesn't matter whether or not the person saying the thing actually harbors any hate in their hearts?

Honestly well intentioned people can be going around "writing dog whistles and coded language" without even knowing it? What constitutes a dog whistle revolves completely around intent.

You really are lost. This is the type of shit that causes problems. The mobs here going around calling people bigots who aren't actually bigots. This type of nonsense is a big part of why the OT side had so many issues.

 

[TsuWave]

Serious question. What makes you feel unsafe about reading something you disagree with?

you don't just "disagree" with this type of post though:

Holy hell, by reading some dramatic posters one would think that gaf atm is filled with racist and sexist comments, I haven't read one, all I'm reading is people commenting of how extreme and agressive gaf was with that 'sjw' parade, when even the most inoffensive games threads will have some angry users commenting about the lack of a black protagonist or the lack of a prominent gay character, things like that, it was pretty tiresome to read.

It's like some of you can't stay 5 minutes without yelling racism or sexism or whatever, most of us don't give a fuck about that, we are here because of the gaming & media discussion.

ignorant, dismissive and offensive. is this what's supposed to pass under "balanced/reasonable discussion"? if reflective of some of the attitudes here, then its pretty natural for people to feel unwelcome and unsafe interacting with people like this

 

[Uno Venova]

The thing is that the community and the environment that it creates matters more than one person.

Being deemed as "toxic", "eco-chamber" , "intolerant" by the imbeciles on the right was actually a sign that we were doing something right.

Actually i kinda admire that aspect of the right, they don't eat each other, i wish we where like that.

Why does the community have to stay here?

 

[Croatoan]

bad ideas where dismissed but you didn't like it

Not being sold on intersectionality or third wave feminism are not "Bad ideas". People who fully supported 2nd wave feminism, and expanding civil rights were banned for merely questioning the above two things.

This would be like scientists banning anyone who disputes string theory.

This is what people mean when they say that differing opinions lead to a ban. Not that we want actual racists, bigots, and mysogynists here. There was basically a cleansing that saw a lot of more moderate liberals banned for not following these new ideas to a "T". Any dissent was squashed. Even 2nd wave feminists were cast out for not being pure enough.

 

[Fercho]

What happened is that the mods let the site be claimed by a particular polical viewpoint and everything outside it was either 'alt-right' helper or wrongspeak. Racism and bigotry have no place here, but mods went on al allout powertrip.

Ok, give an example of a perfectly fine "political viewpoint" that was not tolerated by the mods?

 

[Kamina]

What confuses me about the OT Title is the need to point it out this exact way.
Why not just say: “Neogaf will always respect all human beings equally, regardless of race, gender, sex or sexual orientation.”

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

so it was the good ideas that were dismissed?

Often yeah: GAF is a community of game enthusiasts, journalists and tech hobbyists, just like the moderators were. I saw good, reasonable arguments dog-piled and dismissed because the majority of posters simply failed to grasp the point.

The problem isn't GAF's though, it's society's at large. Most people are happy to admit they don't have intelligence or relevant experience to wrestle with the inherent complexity of a calculus equation or a classical symphony, but everybody - everybody - assumes they can just 'get it' when it comes to political or philosophical issues (which are rarely any less complex). The upshot is that when they don't understand something, they tend to assume it's wrong.

 

[HStallion]

Often yeah: GAF is a community of game enthusiasts, journalists and tech hobbyists, just like the moderators were. I saw good, reasonable arguments dog-piled and dismissed because the majority of posters simply failed to grasp the point.

The problem isn't GAF's though, it's societies at large. Most people are happy to admit they don't have intelligence or relevant experience to wrestle with the inherent complexity of a calculus equation or a classical symphony, but everybody - everybody - assumes they can just 'get it' when it comes to political or philosophical issues (which are rarely any less complex). The upshot is that when they don't understand something, they tend to assume it's wrong.

There isn't much to get about certain "political" ideologies.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

What confuses me about the OT Title is the need to point it out this exact way.
Why not just say: “Neogaf will always respect all human beings equally, regardless of race, gender, sex or sexual orientation.”

I honestly hate the term minorities and it weirds me out when people say "I'm a minority"... like they don't know wtf they are

 

[metalslimer]

What confuses me about the OT Title is the need to point it out this exact way.
Why not just say: “Neogaf will always respect all human beings equally, regardless of race, gender, sex or sexual orientation.”

One implies actively trying to respect those people while the other is a little more passive. I don't think it really meant much though and was probably made in the heat of shit last night

 

[HStallion]

I honestly hate the term minorities and it weirds me out when people say "I'm a minority"... like they don't know wtf they are

I'm a minority and I fully know well what I am. You know when you're a minority in America. You can never forget it as it can get you killed.

 

[rackham]

Not being sold on intersectionality or third wave feminism are not "Bad ideas". People who fully supported 2nd wave feminism, and expanding civil rights were banned for merely questioning the above two things.

This would be like scientists banning anyone who disputes string theory.

This is what people mean when they say that differing opinions lead to a ban. Not that we want actual racists, bigots, and mysogynists here. There was basically a cleansing that saw a lot of more moderate liberals banned for not following these new ideas to a "T". Any dissent was squashed. Even 2nd wave feminists were cast out for not being pure enough.

Not sure if it's worth posting but I was banned for calling a post moronic (not the poster) that literally said that having sex and wanting sex with a guy doesn't doesn't make you gay- in a thread about Witcher 3 and why Gerald doesn't have the option to have sex with guys or romance them.

I've always considered myself progressive and liberal but had these people coming after me because I didn't automatically agree with them about Gerald being able to have sex with guys. I was almost labeled a bigot because of it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250748240&highlight=#post250748240

thread in question.

My ban reason was supposedly because I called people a moron- which I only called the post moronic- over "video game sex" when it was clearly about people literally trying to push an agenda just Gerald can have gay romance options.

Am I a bigot because of that? Some dog pilers and toxic posters would make me believe so. I thought I was liberal as hell but I guess not.

I'm sad about this whole thing. Don't want anyone to leave. I let bans roll off my shoulders. It's not a big deal at the end of the day but I do believe that the old mods could do some bullshit things. That's kind of what I liked at the same time though.

 

[Kamina]

I honestly hate the term minorities and it weirds me out when people say "I'm a minority"... like they don't know wtf they are

Yeah. Minority implies a people with comparably low ammount of individuals living in a specific country, doesnt it?
Since most countries are on the internet, and the internet is a global network, there can’t be any minorities here.

 

[HStallion]

Yeah. Minority implies a people with comparably low ammount of individuals living in a specific country, doesnt it?
Since most countries are on the internet, and the internet is a global network, there can’t be any minorities here.

You don't live in the internet despite how much time we can spend on it. What are you on about?

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Often yeah: GAF is a community of game enthusiasts, journalists and tech hobbyists, just like the moderators were. I saw good, reasonable arguments dog-piled and dismissed because the majority of posters simply failed to grasp the point.

The problem isn't GAF's though, it's society's at large. Most people are happy to admit they don't have intelligence or relevant experience to wrestle with the inherent complexity of a calculus equation or a classical symphony, but everybody - everybody - assumes they can just 'get it' when it comes to political or philosophical issues (which are rarely any less complex). The upshot is that when they don't understand something, they tend to assume it's wrong.

your second paragraph seems to contradict the first. Could those "reasonable arguments" not be stated in a way to prevail over the "dog pile" repliers that you say just didn't get it?

Everyone mentions these dog piles as if they never refute the post that got so much attention, which is very unlikely. People did explain and dismiss the argument that was dog-piled, most times I saw it happen

 

[Buzzman]

is this the "complain about an old ban" thread cuz if so,

 

[gtj1092]

I'm not arguing for either extreme.

Your posts kind of say otherwise. You came in attacking one side. Reality is you can't divorce race and sex from people's decision making and unfortunately racism is baked into American society so those delivering the racism dont even notice. If someone tells you that you're being offensive you probably are. It's doesn't mean youre automatically an evil person but maybe instead of protesting you should self reflect.

 

[Kamina]

You don't live in the internet despite how much time we can spend on it. What are you on about?

When someone from america talks about minorities, from a european point of view the very same people might not be monorities at all.
What i mean is, when talking on the internet about people originating from other countries, the word monirity is unfitting.

 

[metalslimer]

Not sure if it's worth posting but I was banned for calling a post moronic (not the poster) that literally said that having sex and wanting sex with a guy doesn't doesn't make you gay- in a thread about Witcher 3 and why Gerald doesn't have the option to have sex with guys or romance them.

I've always considered myself progressive and liberal but had these people coming after me because I didn't automatically agree with them about Gerald being able to have sex with guys. I was almost labeled a bigot because of it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250748240&highlight=#post250748240

thread in question.

My ban reason was supposedly because I called people a moron- which I only called the post moronic- over "video game sex" when it was clearly about people literally trying to push an agenda just Gerald can have gay romance options.

Am I a bigot because of that? Some dog pilers and toxic posters would make me believe so. I thought I was liberal as hell but I guess not.

I'm sad about this whole thing. Don't want anyone to leave. I let bans roll off my shoulders. It's not a big deal at the end of the day but I do believe that the old mods could do some bullshit things. That's kind of what I liked at the same time though.


Do

It doesnt make you gay. People have sex for all different kinds of reason besides straight attraction. I don't think you were being bigoted, just somewhat misinformed as to how sexuality works.

One of things that I think did happen a little too often was that people would attack generally misinformed people who would be open to more info. The problem is the alt right tends to use the asking questions defense when people call out their bigotry so it becomes really hard on the internet to decipher

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I'm a minority and I fully know well what I am. You know when you're a minority in America. You can never forget it as it can get you killed.

So why not just state what you are instead of saying "i'm a minority". That's so weird, to me.

Yeah. Minority implies a people with comparably low ammount of individuals living in a specific country, doesnt it?
Since most countries are on the internet, and the internet is a global network, there can’t be any minorities here.

It just seems like it's used to downplay the importance of the issues certain groups face.

"these are minority issues, which matter less because there are fewer of them while ignoring there is less of them because our country specifically made it that"

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

your second paragraph seems to contradict the first. Could those "reasonable arguments" not be stated in a way to prevail over the "dog pile" repliers that you say just didn't get it?

They don't contradict, the issue with complex arguments is that 1) they difficult to grasp and 2) in highly divisive, emotionally-charged discussions people have usually picked their side and will be determined to hold it anyway.

One and two are a problem anywhere you go and are a testament to just how hard it can be to change hearts and minds, but GAF had a third issue: if the mods didn't get it - and they often didn't, because they're no more well-versed in political philosophy than the average poster - you'd get banned before you had time to get that far.

Then you'd get a half-dozen posters drop a 'lol, such-and-such got hit with the ban hammer' and that'd be the end of that discussion.

 

[rackham]

It doesnt make you gay. People have sex for all different kinds of reason besides straight attraction. I don't think you were being bigoted, just somewhat misinformed as to how sexuality works.

One of things that I think did happen a little too often was that people would attack generally misinformed people who would be open to more info. The problem is the alt right tends to use the asking questions defense when people call out their bigotry so it becomes really hard on the internet to decipher

See I disagree with that as one of the definitions of being gay or bisexual is that you're attracted to the same sex. I don't really see how you can romance the same sex and not consider yourself bisexual.

I don't mind this option in RPGs it's just that this particular thread kind of annoyed me because it was so clearly trying to push an agenda and make the devs or people who didn't agree feel bad that Gerald couldn't be with a guy. I don't want to derail this thread moreso but I just wanted to point out that when people talk about toxicity concerning the liberalism around here, I think of this moment and a few others.

Devs shouldn't feel bad because they're making a straight character who his/her own life and likes. If an RPG is using a blank template for a character, then go for it and do whatever- but the Witcher series did not strike me as an RPG with a blank template character. You had choices but they were choices that all fit Gerald's character.

 

[HStallion]

When someone from america talks about minorities, from a european point of view the very same people might not be monorities at all.
What i mean is, when talking on the internet about people originating from other countries, the word monirity is unfitting.

You're a grown person with the internet at your fingers. You can easily look up population statistics in other countries and see who is, and isn't a minority as well as culturally I think its pretty easy to figure out who is and isn't. Again what are you on about?

So why not just state what you are instead of saying "i'm a minority". That's so weird, to me.

Because I'm Samoan, Hawaiian, Japanese Italian, German and Irish. I don't exactly what to have to type that out every time.

 

[boiled goose]

When someone from america talks about minorities, from a european point of view the very same people might not be monorities at all.
What i mean is, when talking on the internet about people originating from other countries, the word monirity is unfitting.

This is so obtuse and silly.

It's not hard to understand when someone says minority it means minority in their country. And not just minority in numbers but a marginalized group generally.

Come on now .. :/

 

[Elegant Weapon]

They don't contradict, the issue with complex arguments is that 1) they difficult to grasp and 2) in highly divisive, emotionally-charged discussions people have usually picked their side and will be determined to hold it anyway.

One and two are a problem anywhere you go and are a testament to just how hard it can be to change hearts and minds, but GAF had a third issue: if the mods didn't get it - and they often didn't, because they're no more well-versed in political philosophy than the average poster - you'd get banned before you had time to get that far.

Then you'd get a half-dozen posters drop a 'lol, such-and-such got hit with the ban hammer' and that'd be the end of that discussion.

Again, I usually always saw the dog piled post get refuted with thought out points but I wasn't in every thread clearly

I would love to know where you guys go for nuanced non-partisan political discussion on geek culture based forums...?

because it's strange so many of you say gaf was so toxic when the rest of the internet is way worse

 

[metalslimer]

See I disagree with that as one of the definitions of being gay or bisexual is that you're attracted to the same sex. I don't really see how you can romance the same sex and not consider yourself bisexual.

I don't mind this option in RPGs it's just that this particular thread kind of annoyed me because it was so clearly trying to push an agenda and make the devs or people who didn't agree feel bad that Gerald couldn't be with a guy. I don't want to derail this thread moreso but I just wanted to point out that when people talk about toxicity concerning the liberalism around here, I think of this moment and a few others.

Devs shouldn't feel bad because they're making a straight character who his/her own life and likes. If an RPG is using a blank template for a character, then go for it and do whatever- but the Witcher series did not strike me as an RPG with a blank template character. You had choices but they were choices that all fit Gerald's character.

I was saying you don't have to be attracted to someone sexually to have sex with them. But yes I agree with your point that Geralt is an established character and I don't really think they needed that option there. Anyway there is a ton of research on how many straight people have had/thought about having a gay experience

And yeah I don't want to derail the thread but yes I do think in certain instances GAG could have done better but the version of the site some people seems to have wanted was a much worse version from a bygone era where minorities knew their places and shut up

 

[BeauRoger]

Wait wait wait, stop stop stop.

So if somebody says something that somebody else interprets as a "dog whistle", it's automatically game over? It doesn't matter whether or not the person saying the thing actually harbors any hate in their hearts?

Honestly well intentioned people can be going around "writing dog whistles and coded language" without even knowing it? What constitutes a dog whistle revolves completely around intent.

You really are lost. This is the type of shit that causes problems. The mobs here going around calling people bigots who aren't actually bigots. This type of nonsense is a big part of why the OT side had so many issues.

Agreed. Whats more, that reasoning so obviously circular; you deem yourself apt at discovering underlying motives or subtexts because you often read that into other peoples statements. So you are good at because you find it so often and you find it so often because you are good at it. Its worrying to me that people go around parading such lapses in reasoning.

 

[Kamina]

This is so obtuse and silly.

It's not hard to understand when someone says minority it means minority in their country. And not just minority in numbers but a marginalized group generally.

Come on now .. :/

I dont think it is silly at all, but whatever.

You're a grown person with the internet at your fingers. You can easily look up population statistics in other countries and see who is, and isn't a minority as well as culturally I think its pretty easy to figure out who is and isn't. Again what are you on about?

What are YOU on about?
Its not like everyone ist stating where they are from when talking about minorities, and i wont always have the time to look up things either.

All i meant was that instead of staing “I respect minorities” its more accurate to say “i respect people regardless of they racial hertitage” because this also includes people that might be falsely sated as minority too.

 

[DraconisNav]

I said it rapes my ears.

If you really got a 6 month ban for that, then I think most reasonable people would agree that's a problem.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Again, I usually always saw the dog piled post get refuted with thought out points but I wasn't in every thread clearly

I would love to know where you guys go for nuanced non-partisan political discussion on geek culture based forums...?

because it's strange so many of you say gaf was so toxic when the rest of the internet is way worse

I appreciate the candour - I really do. The problem is the 'well thought our refutations' might have been bogus to a degree. I always think of it like calculus. If someone gave me three calculus equations, one with a correct conclusion and two with false, I wouldn't have a clue how to sort them. I can do a basic level of maths, but it in no way arms me to understand something on that level.

The same is true with complex philosophical and political arguments - just because you grasp the basics, doesn't mean you can grasp the complex nuance. Some might see it as pedantic, but for me, it's always been the small, hard to wrap your head around details that matter in any serious discussion.

Where do I go for a high level of debate? My wife, maybe? A handful of close friends? I don't know anywhere on the internet that civlised...

 

[HStallion]

I dont think it is silly at all, but whatever.


What are YOU on about?
Its not like everyone ist stating where they are from when taalking about minorities, and i wont always have the time to look up things either.

I've been pretty straight forward with what I'm getting at. I live in a country where I am a minority, its as simple as that.

 

[SuperBanana]

Women are sex objects =/= Respect women.

 

[HStallion]

If you really got a 6 month ban for that, then I think most reasonable people would agree that's a problem.

Nah that seems fine. You can't joke about rape here and not expect to catch a ban or at least that used to be the case. Especially if that wasn't the only post on the subject that came off that crass. Its rarely just one post that nets you that ban, its several, often in a row.

 

[Fercho]

What happened is that the mods let the site be claimed by a particular polical viewpoint and everything outside it was either 'alt-right' helper or wrongspeak. Racism and bigotry have no place here, but mods went on al allout powertrip.

Ok, give an example of a perfectly fine "political viewpoint" that was not tolerated by the mods?

And he went away........

This is the kind the of "civil discussion" they want to have.

They don't contradict, the issue with complex arguments is that 1) they difficult to grasp and 2) in highly divisive, emotionally-charged discussions people have usually picked their side and will be determined to hold it anyway.

One and two are a problem anywhere you go and are a testament to just how hard it can be to change hearts and minds, but GAF had a third issue: if the mods didn't get it - and they often didn't, because they're no more well-versed in political philosophy than the average poster - you'd get banned before you had time to get that far.

Then you'd get a half-dozen posters drop a 'lol, such-and-such got hit with the ban hammer' and that'd be the end of that discussion.

I ask you the same question:

Please, give an example of a perfectly fine "political viewpoint" that was not tolerated by the mods or GAF as a whole.

 

[Kamina]

I've been pretty straight forward with what I'm getting at. I live in a country where I am a minority, its as simple as that.

Just updated my previous post for some more clarity.