drotahorror
Member
Patrick is writing much worse shit today than any of those old tweets and attempts at humor. He's writing hitpieces to fuck with someones livelihood
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Patrick Klepek gets called out on racism, sexism, rape jokes, child rape jokes, voyeurism and more
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
Patrick is writing much worse shit today than any of those old tweets and attempts at humor. He's writing hitpieces to fuck with someones livelihood
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
Been following this thread for a while, and a common take seems to be that Klepek is awful because he tried to get people fired.
To me, I see him as a part of the problematic far-left who, to their credit, care about the consequences of their actions, and want to make the world a better place. But as the alt-right has become an unmistakably toxic influence, I see a lot of people on the left as trying to fight for good causes in toxic ways themselves, which unfortunately pushes a lot of gamers who might have otherwise been moderate voices, to feel alienated and seek allies in the worst places.
Take gamergate, in the very beginning. As soon as the story broke, you got a lot of major articles talking about how bad gamer culture is, how gamers are dying, and how people piling into women in the industry should all be ashamed. To be clear, I don't think they were wrong entirely, and had I been a writer at the time might have written something similar.
But the current me would certainly not. Not in that way. The thing is, there were a lot of people who really didn't have a horse in the race when gamergate started. When these people read these GG-reaction articles, the reaction was a lot of "what? fuck me? No, fuck you, fake news" when in fact the salient issues were very easy to argue and the larger movement has never been defensible. Tact can be the difference between someone understanding what you've written and agreeing, remaining neutral, or becoming radicalized to the other side.[1] There's little value in being on the right side of an issue if you are so aggressive about it that you end up pushing people away.[2]
That was meant to give context for why I think Klepek is getting so much shit now. It's not for being a college kid and it's not (entirely) for shining a light on problematic figures in the industry. From my perspective, he is catching most of the shit now for being toxic in the way he tried to fight for good.
Most of the shit anyways. The dude would still be somewhat hated purely for shining a light on social issues in an age where gamers aggressively defend their bubbles of ignorance. You can spot this type a mile away when you see "SJW" or "virtue signalling" and similar dog whistles without substance.
Incidentally, I feel this is the exact trap resetera has fallen into. They "care" so much that care has become a cudgel and if you know what's good for you you'd better care in the exact same way they do. They are a toxic echo chamber now which happens to be on the right side of some issues, but they do more harm than good.
1. I will say that the people who let this sort of thing push them into dens of alt-right toxicity were not great people to begin with, and probably just needed an excuse. The point though, is that I'll take not great people over racist fucks any day of the week.
2. My favourite example of this is Warframe's -misan- mod, who proudly blogged about getting words added to the game's already draconian chat filter and consider people who don't come from their same background as "transphobic pieces of shit." This person straight up did their cause more harm than good and is a perfect example of how insulting people who didn't fully understand the issue ended up pushing a lot of people away.
To me, I see him as a part of the problematic far-left who, to their credit, care about the consequences of their actions, and want to make the world a better place. But as the alt-right has become an unmistakably toxic influence, I see a lot of people on the left as trying to fight for good causes in toxic ways themselves, which unfortunately pushes a lot of gamers who might have otherwise been moderate voices, to feel alienated and seek allies in the worst places.
Take gamergate, in the very beginning. As soon as the story broke, you got a lot of major articles talking about how bad gamer culture is, how gamers are dying, and how people piling into women in the industry should all be ashamed. To be clear, I don't think they were wrong entirely, and had I been a writer at the time might have written something similar.
But the current me would certainly not. Not in that way. The thing is, there were a lot of people who really didn't have a horse in the race when gamergate started. When these people read these GG-reaction articles, the reaction was a lot of "what? fuck me? No, fuck you, fake news" when in fact the salient issues were very easy to argue and the larger movement has never been defensible. Tact can be the difference between someone understanding what you've written and agreeing, remaining neutral, or becoming radicalized to the other side.[1] There's little value in being on the right side of an issue if you are so aggressive about it that you end up pushing people away.[2]
That was meant to give context for why I think Klepek is getting so much shit now. It's not for being a college kid and it's not (entirely) for shining a light on problematic figures in the industry. From my perspective, he is catching most of the shit now for being toxic in the way he tried to fight for good.
Most of the shit anyways. The dude would still be somewhat hated purely for shining a light on social issues in an age where gamers aggressively defend their bubbles of ignorance. You can spot this type a mile away when you see "SJW" or "virtue signalling" and similar dog whistles without substance.
Incidentally, I feel this is the exact trap resetera has fallen into. They "care" so much that care has become a cudgel and if you know what's good for you you'd better care in the exact same way they do. They are a toxic echo chamber now which happens to be on the right side of some issues, but they do more harm than good.
1. I will say that the people who let this sort of thing push them into dens of alt-right toxicity were not great people to begin with, and probably just needed an excuse. The point though, is that I'll take not great people over racist fucks any day of the week.
2. My favourite example of this is Warframe's -misan- mod, who proudly blogged about getting words added to the game's already draconian chat filter and consider people who don't come from their same background as "transphobic pieces of shit." This person straight up did their cause more harm than good and is a perfect example of how insulting people who didn't fully understand the issue ended up pushing a lot of people away.
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I don't have a problem with him deleting tweets. If there was anything shitty there I'm sure we'd all agree it's the smart thing to do to get rid of them, why leave yourself with a massive target on your back. Truth is more people should probably do a purge every couple of years, be it for PI or because you said something stupid
He deleted them because that was people found was jsut a small sample of the really bad stuff. I am sorry but if he attacks other people for shit like this he should be held accountable as well. But Waypoint is kissing his ass because he is on the right side of history. That is why you can not trust these people. Its all a clique who does not care about ethics, morals and journalistic standards
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Why are you stopping short in your post? You know damn well he did it, to try and protect himself from people like him.
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again, why is that the wrong thing to do? Are you saying you wouldn't do it? If I had any sort of social media following or spotlight on me I'd be a lot more carefulWhy are you stopping short in your post? You know damn well he did it, to try and protect himself from people like him.
D Dunki same to you. He'd be an idiot to leave himself wide open if he thinks/knows there's stuff there he doesn't want people to use against him. He is being accountable, you might want him to be fired but that would be extreme (and hypocritical apparently?) and evidentially isn't going to happen
I personally want the same thing happen to him than what did happen to the ones he tried to get fired by constantly asking their employees to fire or ban them from YouTube.again, why is that the wrong thing to do? Are you saying you wouldn't do it? If I had any sort of social media following or spotlight on me I'd be a lot more careful
D Dunki same to you. He'd be an idiot to leave himself wide open if he thinks/knows there's stuff there he doesn't want people to use against him. He is being accountable, you might want him to be fired but that would be extreme (and hypocritical apparently?) and evidentially isn't going to happen
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
again, why is that the wrong thing to do? Are you saying you wouldn't do it? If I had any sort of social media following or spotlight on me I'd be a lot more careful
It is all about context. Thankfully, I never acted like an edgelord on my social media accounts to worry about that, but if I had to worry, I would not be doing it because I was a toxic person going after others for it. Context as to what matters when expressing your character, amigo. He is his own person he looks over his shoulder for.
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Personally I think most people did act like that when they were young the difference is that they also did not want to fire others because they act the same as you did.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh no doubt. The wanting to get people fired for the same shit you did at one time, instead of opening up dialogue to perhaps educate and change someone's perception is the epitome of a narcissistic ego.
Even more sinister since it is all politically/financially motivated as well.
bitbydeath
Member
Nah, there's no defence for either side. If someone's going out of their way to impact your life negatively, be it racism or other forms of bullying then their actions should both be put in the spotlight for what they're doing is inexcusable.
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me either, and I don't recall Klepek saying anything racist or misogynistic in recent years, but I don't follow him all that closely (I don't follow him on twitter, I mainly know him from Giant Bomb), so that context is why he's not getting fired, but why someone like Thorn is (was lol) in the spotlight. With regards to Thorn, based on what I've read, I can't say I blame him for asking questions of people who hire him
From the podcast it seems like Klepek knows he's brought this on himself, if that's not a harsh way of wording it. Hearing him talk, he seems to just see it as him asking questions, which I doubt you'll believe is genuine, but it does highlight the problem. If something makes the news there isn't a quiet way to deal with something like this. Employers will start to wince (look at Disney), because I don't entirely disagree with you, I'd prefer people not to have their lives, or at least careers ruined, particularly if it's something that was a mistake or a stupid one off, ideally you've got to give people a chance to improve.
I seem to use football analogies a lot on here. There's an ex-player, now a pundit, called Jamie Carragher. At the end of last season he was driving back from a game, was being goaded by fans, and spat at someone (ended up spitting in the fan's daughter's face). Sky suspended him for the rest of the season but he's back for the new season. I think that's probably it being handled fairly well. Unless you think the person is going to do it again, then you just wash your hands of them
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't want Klepek getting fired any more than the people he's been targeting. The thing is, he was using his Twitter account to post about all the little things he was doing before even getting into any dialogue with Thorn or his employers, which all that did was rally up the toxic troops. He was using this platform knowing it would create harassment for someone else. Political targets. Those are not sound ethics. That is helping to curate a story and narrative before even getting information directly from the parties you targeted.
Preemptively trying to scrub your online history from deeds in the past just before doing this is icing on the cake of this all.
So he is aware of what he is doing to cause angst in others, since he was trying to avoid angst himself.
J-Roderton
Member
Yes. You get it.
Texas Pride
Banned
We both know that's not happening. And honestly it wouldn't change shit if he did. All he'd do is make excuses why he did it and why it shouldn't matter. Nothing of substance.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Some of them, sure.
But the ones who really make a big deal about getting up on their high horse and going on about how virtuous they are is suspect, to me that indicates that they just like stroking their own egos and being dicks to others, not that they actually care about morals.
MiguelItUp
Member
Honestly, you can find out just by skimming a few pages in this thread...
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
He rubs me the wrong way. When I first heard about him it was through Giant Bomb and especially when Ryan passed away. Then I started to feel like he was the type of guy who would make fun you behind your back. Then shine a camera on him and he's all an act.
Like a lot of people who write about games, it never feels like they really care about the customer.
He knows he's in the same boat as anyone who has ever said something like this. He is now trying to protect his ass. He reaches out to people he talks shit about for help.
I also remember Tag names on Xbox Live with the word Rape in them. I remember the rape talk got real bad when they weren't cataloging everything someone said like we were in a court room.
Not watching an attractive female in a video game after their personality reflects otherwise is nonsense. It makes it harder to believe, especially how fowl mouthed these people can get. It's not like your sex drive just stopped or women gross you out.
It makes me think they're all putting on some fake alter ego to fight justice online (or at least in front of parents). If you're Reggie at Nintendo, maybe. But not someone who has to review a slug of M rated games over a decade.
I dont think anyone who has been exposed to the same culture as I have (Mature rated games) should act like they're somehow appalled. How long have you narrated the experience of viewing all this content? What's next? The Anti-M rated game journalist who can only play games rated E-T because they somehow distort the minds of children living around the world?
Vice also has docs on Incest Facebook groups. At times their stories are in the rabbit hole, so their response on this whole thing is not surprising.
People threw Evilore in the fire. That was one of Patrick's TED talks, right? He said that to bunch of people and broke down about it. What happens when there's zero proof and a man gets set ablaze for it?
Like a lot of people who write about games, it never feels like they really care about the customer.
He knows he's in the same boat as anyone who has ever said something like this. He is now trying to protect his ass. He reaches out to people he talks shit about for help.
I also remember Tag names on Xbox Live with the word Rape in them. I remember the rape talk got real bad when they weren't cataloging everything someone said like we were in a court room.
Not watching an attractive female in a video game after their personality reflects otherwise is nonsense. It makes it harder to believe, especially how fowl mouthed these people can get. It's not like your sex drive just stopped or women gross you out.
It makes me think they're all putting on some fake alter ego to fight justice online (or at least in front of parents). If you're Reggie at Nintendo, maybe. But not someone who has to review a slug of M rated games over a decade.
I dont think anyone who has been exposed to the same culture as I have (Mature rated games) should act like they're somehow appalled. How long have you narrated the experience of viewing all this content? What's next? The Anti-M rated game journalist who can only play games rated E-T because they somehow distort the minds of children living around the world?
Vice also has docs on Incest Facebook groups. At times their stories are in the rabbit hole, so their response on this whole thing is not surprising.
People threw Evilore in the fire. That was one of Patrick's TED talks, right? He said that to bunch of people and broke down about it. What happens when there's zero proof and a man gets set ablaze for it?
cr0w
Old Member
Jesus Christ I was interviewed about my sex life by a grown-ass man who shields his eyes from footage of attractive women in video games?
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
What I was trying to get at is that there are a lot of neutral gamers who aren't really bothering anyone. They don't religiously follow discussion forums and barely follow games media, and a lot of those people now do go on forums and complain about SJWs because some well meaning writer took a tone they took umbrage with and made them feel judged. So they go on to find their own echo chambers and social circles where they can find acceptance being terrible.
...thus they become the shits we always thought they were... instead of, y'know, at least not being part of the problem. And by God are people crying SJW at every progressive move ever part of the problem.
brap
Banned
I don't see the problem here. Some leftist wrote an article and a lot of people that were neutral are now against SJWs? Then maybe they should fuck off because they sure as hell don't represent the majority.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
This is all a fantasy in your head. It is not real.
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
That's a weird position to take. I explained how some people on one side can carelessly push neutral people to the other side. Exactly what part of that is not real?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
You are wrong, it definitely happens. I'm not saying everyone who gets offended does that but it is a real enough concern that I think it merits tact for people writing in positions of influence. So many alt-right communities blew up so much after gamergate and I'm not putting all of that on tactless writers but it's a real factor.
"alt right"
"gamergate"
Jeez anymore buzzwords you want to use? Call some people incels, complain about "toxic masculinity". I mean, this entire thread is just a giant "microagression"
GrimDarkDarrel
Member
I used relevant words in appropriate ways. If you were trying to say something of value you did not include it in your post.
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Nymphae
Banned
Or maybe just own up to what you say? It's more worthy of respect to me than memory-holing 50 000 tweets to keep a squeaky clean appearance (as you hunt for other people's decades old transgressions to point digital fingers)
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Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Exactly. Own everything you say on the internet. Old folks like me new that already. Amateurish cleanskins are just working it out.
Don't post it if you don't mean it (or don't have the strength of your convictions).
eot
Banned
Being "held accountable" for a shitty joke you made 10 years ago is outrageous, as are these internet witch hunts, regardless of which political side is perpetrating them. If deleting your history is a way to avoid it then go for it I say.
Nymphae
Banned
By "held accountable", I mean people on the internet being able to find the information, and being able call you out. I mean just own what you said, and apologize if you feel the need. Patrick seems to think being held accountable for shitty behaviour in the past means you should lose your job.
I don't understand the logic of not being able to delete the posts though. Even just out of civility it'd be justified, let alone just being realistic and not risking bringing a load of shit on yourself for stuff you said years ago (in general I mean, it's obviously not worked for Klepek)
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
If you've never posted anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.
I know I never have. I don't need to frantically check my pasts tweets because I'm not an immature dickhead and never have been.
Own what you post.
So you want everyone who's ever said anything stupid to stand by it even if they don't believe it any more (assuming they ever believed it in the first place)?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Why post something you don't believe in?
Well, most people aren't born fully formed, they learn from experience and so change as people. Their beliefs, attitudes and behaviour alters over time
Then you'll have people making jokes. Possibly even trolling for their own amusement or attention, again something people often grow out of
Nymphae
Banned
I mean sure, I'm not saying no one should ever be able to delete their own stupid posts. There's just something incredibly slimy to me about memory-holing so much of his own stuff, while digging through other people's. I'd like to see Patrick acknowledge this at least, that is what I would consider owning it, saying yeah people found some crap, it was old and I was dumber, etc. Instead? No acknowledgement, wipe it from the internet. That doesn't feel good to me.
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Mochilador
Member
It's really amazing haha.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Yeah, nah. I wasn't born "fully formed", but I'm not a cowardly nerd ashamed of my past tweets. Yes, you learn from experience, but basic intelligence leads you to not publically post stupid shit unless you are an idiot. In which case people shouldn't be listening to your opinions anyway.
PSA: Don't listen to anything Patrick Klepek has to say because he is an idiot not worth listening to.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I love Patrick's writing and hearing him on podcasts, yet I agree with you too. This guy has to speak about this stuff. He has to "own" it and talk about it. Patrick is a GREAT person to listen to.
But he can't push for change in the world to make it better, if he doesn't speak about how he went from college Klepek to, today's Klepek.
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eot
Banned
This is the argument people use for indiscriminate surveillance. Guess what, most people do or say things they regret, and yes most people were immature at some point. You're not born mature. Standards change too, if you go back 10 years and listen to gaming podcasts you can hear people making jokes that would get them crucified today. The idea that everything you ever did should go on a permanent record and be able to be used against you is something I find absurd.
Internet hate mobs are not rational, or something you argue with or apologise to. Also, I don't like calling out people to have them fired like Patrick did, but I also don't like it happening to him, and I'd understand anyone deleting their history, because the way it gets used against you in the court of public opinion is despicable. It's why many people use the internet anonymously.
He addressed it on some waypoint podcast
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Please report back. I don't wanna give those guys anything resembling clicks or revenue.
Shifty1897
Member
Lots of people make mistakes. The difference is that Klepek makes his career on shitting on and vilifying others no different than himself. I wish I could say that maybe this would give him a chance to reflect and possibly tone down his bullshit, but knowing him, nah.
It's a shame, too. When he just writes about video games, he's fantastic.
It's a shame, too. When he just writes about video games, he's fantastic.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
That's because he's a gamer-on-a-leash. He lends credibility to the know-nothings who've jumped into the videogame industry (specifically, into videogame journalism) for political/ideological purposes. They pat him on the head and overlook his gamer sins and he scolds the nerds for them.
It's really no mystery why these types support socialism and Communist propaganda: this is the part of the playbook where they wine and dine the Intellectuals to promote their viewpoint and then they shoot you in the head when you've outlived your usefulness. This is literally written in our history books already. Thankfully for Klepek, he'll just get ostracized by his former "friends" instead of taken out back for a "cigarette break".
DarkestHour
Banned
The dude is a piece of shit.