Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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betrayal
Banned
What if this virus had broken out in the US? Or somewhere in the EU? Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, would have closed the borders immediately.
The big unknown factor was the human-to-human transmission, which is why such a thing cannot be done immediately. This must at least be confirmed, so that something happens at all, and that is where the problem lies. Before you can prove a human to human transmission it is usually already too late.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Not happening in significant numbers - merely among a small section of people.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
That's what I said. I said "some people". I didn't say "all" or "most", I said "some". Which is a fact.
To which you posted people like me need to "get a grip".
For posting facts.
Think about that.
I like you, Haris, but c'mon now.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Nah, man. They speak for everyone. Just how the alt-right speaks for all the right. We all be nazis. And all lefties are authoritarian SJWs
Sakura
Member
The Hong Kong flu spread slowly and didn't have a particularly high death rate. In fact it still exists today and is one of the strains of influenza people catch every year.I wonder if all these measures are really worth it in the long run. I talked with my parents about the hong kong flu that spread across the world in '68. Back then 40000 (4 times what italy has now) people in germany died and around 1 to 2 million world wide. Nobody crashed the economy into the ground because of that. People got ill and some died, just like it happens every year with the regular flu. Maybe heartless to say it that way i guess.
In the age of the internet and worldwide communication, politicians can't really ignore something like the Corona Virus anymore. Still, the consquences of these measuress frighten me just as much as the virus i have to say.
Of course, i wouldn't want my parents to die from this disease, so it is difficult to really disagree too much with all of this.
You are looking at absolute numbers after the fact. 40,000 deaths when all is said and done, compared to what Italy has now? What is the point of such a comparison? 3 weeks ago Italy didn't even have a thousand deaths. Now they are over 10,000 confirmed. You have no idea what it will be a year from now. Italy's medical system is already overloaded and there is only 100,000 confirmed cases. What the hell do you think would happen if the country wasn't in lockdown, and the thing was allowed to spread with people doing nothing? It doesn't take a genius to work this out.
These arguments about crashing the economy are ridiculous. Like, what do you think would happen if there weren't lockdowns? Even though hospitals are overloaded and the death toll keeps climbing, you think people are still going to go shopping, go to the movies, pub, go on trips and cruises, etc? (well, some probably would...) The economy is fucked either way, people don't seem to understand this. You already had record numbers of people applying for unemployment before lockdowns. At least if you have lockdowns and do them properly, you can save a lot of lives, and keep the spread to a minimum. The economy will come back, the jobs will come back, but people won't.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Hey now this thread is about Kung flu-fighting. Not fighting each other.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
I'm not fighting, I'm pointing out fact from fiction. Haris knows I love him.
Malakhov
Banned
Oh come on, get over it. The first case was tracked to November. By the end of December it was a serious thing, then in January it was starting to spin out of control
They had months to figure this out, people were still coming in from China in canada a few weeks ago.
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Malakhov
Banned
I can't even believe that post, seriously.
A few did so that proves it! Whaaaat?
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Twas a joke.I can't even believe that post, seriously.
A few did so that proves it! Whaaaat?
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I say get a grip because the number of people is sufficiently small as to be not worth the time and effort of discussing, especially given how it has been used as a talking point among the hard left to deflect blame from the CCP by conflating hate for the CCP and Chinese people such that blaming the CCP for this becomes racist.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Hey I'm not into grannies - I'm not Wayne Rooney!
Malakhov
Banned
PrellboGark
Banned
Germany's curve seems to flatten 2-3 weeks after the shutdown was implemented.
It'll be another few days before they can be sure, though.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Why don't you respond to me directly?I can't even believe that post, seriously.
A few did so that proves it! Whaaaat?
You stated the sentiment was aimed squarely at the Chinese government. I disputed this. I am correct. What's your issue?
"Lol" isn't an argument.
GHG
Member
This is my motto.
Broad strokes, big categories, no thought, just black or white.
The simple life
Malakhov
Banned
You didn't dispute this. All you did replied is ok you admit a few did so I rest my case.
That's not even worth replying too, sorry
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Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Sufficiently small to whom? I've seen plenty and on GAF, too.
I'll continue to point it out. What's that quote about "they came and I said nothing, then they came for me"? Hmm.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Murr
Member
Well i mean the Deathrate of the Corona Virus isn't that high either. Obviously the exact numbers aren't really known so far, since we don't know how many people had the virus, but never got tested or never had any severe symptoms. It certainly isn't the black plague though.
But you are right of course, we can't predict how many people will die from the Corona Virus, so a comparison is difficult. Still most younger people don't really get severe symptoms from the Corona disease. So i find it hard to believe that that consquences would be as catastrohic as you suggest.
Of course i am no expert on the virus, so one can only hope that the measures really are necessary.
And by the way, that our medical systems are as overloaded as they are has a lot to do with they way they were privaticed and received one financial cut after the next. Something one shouldn't totally overlook. Indeed Italys numbers also have to do with the fact that many hospitals weren't capable anymore to serve regular patients. People with heart attacks etc. When you cut the system barely works at the best of times, than something like this will have a severe impact of course.
llien
Banned
The official letter from German ministry stated that if I break quarantine, it's a crime and there are up to 2 years in prison for that.
For this asshole, who actually is a confirmed C19 case (I was not even infected), it's merely "deporting".
What the heck:
Calls to deport Briton ignoring advice to self-isolate
BBC News
There are calls for a British citizen who's being treated for Covid-19 in South Korea to be deported after he broke quarantine guideline, possibly spreading the virus while travelling through the country.
The man, said to be in his thirties, travelled to South Korea from Thailand. He was examined at the airport but showed no symptoms of coronavirus. He was told to spend 14 days in self-isolation.
Instead, he reportedly visited four different cities, coming into close contact with 23 people over five days. He developed symptoms during that time and went to a test centre where he was told, once again, to self-isolate until he received his results. However, he is believed to have played screen golf at a games centre right after.
The justice ministry is investigating if his actions were illegal or if he put others in danger. He will be questioned after he recovers.
South Korea is toughening its entry rules. It is now mandatory for all arrivals to undergo 14 days of quarantine and they must download an app that tracks their symptoms and movements.
The government has warned that any foreigner breaking these rules will be deported while South Korean citizens will be fined.
For this asshole, who actually is a confirmed C19 case (I was not even infected), it's merely "deporting".
What the heck:
Calls to deport Briton ignoring advice to self-isolate
BBC News
There are calls for a British citizen who's being treated for Covid-19 in South Korea to be deported after he broke quarantine guideline, possibly spreading the virus while travelling through the country.
The man, said to be in his thirties, travelled to South Korea from Thailand. He was examined at the airport but showed no symptoms of coronavirus. He was told to spend 14 days in self-isolation.
Instead, he reportedly visited four different cities, coming into close contact with 23 people over five days. He developed symptoms during that time and went to a test centre where he was told, once again, to self-isolate until he received his results. However, he is believed to have played screen golf at a games centre right after.
The justice ministry is investigating if his actions were illegal or if he put others in danger. He will be questioned after he recovers.
South Korea is toughening its entry rules. It is now mandatory for all arrivals to undergo 14 days of quarantine and they must download an app that tracks their symptoms and movements.
The government has warned that any foreigner breaking these rules will be deported while South Korean citizens will be fined.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, when thots cum I don't tend to bother saying anything, I just wipe my cock on the curtains and leave.
Murr
Member
Well that would have been nice for sure. I kinda doubt that our western governments would have reacted much faster though.
Malakhov
Banned
This, if some individuals say stupid things about Chinese people then they deserve to be called outCome on guys, let's agree to disagree.
Some people say shit about Chinese people in general, not everyone does.
Scopa just call out individuals on it if and when they do it when it bothers you. It's better to challenge the thoughts of these people head on.
It's not reeee here but we still have the rights to call out racists
Malakhov
Banned
Oh no they wouldn't and didn't. I put the blame on our canadian prime minister as much as on China's government
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Don't worry, I do and have been. Did it the other day and everyone had a sperg out. It was hilarious.Come on guys, let's agree to disagree.
Some people say shit about Chinese people in general, not everyone does.
I have always and will always call out racism because I hate it. I've got nothing against jokes, crass, dark, offensive or otherwise. But, when I know it's coming from a place of dumbfuckery, they'll get both barrels.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
The Italian opera singing was so much more classy.
PrellboGark
Banned
From my perspective, Europe and the US underestimated it for a long time, because you hear about some diseases spreading in China/Asia quite regularly and they never became a problem for Europe or the US.
Everyone just thought this is going to be just like previous outbreaks, you hear about it in the news but it never really reaches you.
But many scientists warned in early January that the seemingly high infection rate, high rate and long period of patients needing intensive care and especially the long incubation period with asymptomatic transmission make this virus extremely dangerous and only a matter of time until it reaches and spread everywhere in the world.
But not many people listened and instead just looked and the not very intimidating death rate and compared it to the flu.
Which completely misses the point. Because we know that the real danger of pandemics in today's time is when healthcare systems reach capacity and collapse. So death rates are a secondary issue, the main issue is how fast this spreads and how many people will need intensive care. As we now see with Italy, once the healthcare system can't cope anymore, the death rate skyrockets from 1% to 10%, because many people can't receive the treatment they need anymore for a lack of resources.
Covid-19 spreads extremely fast, it's hard to track because it can spread asymptomatically and has a long incubation period, meaning that you can have major outbreaks in cities going on for weeks before you'll notice it through hospital admissions.
The most crucial thing here would be testing. Without widespread testing, you are blind to the spread. You can't lay out a rational course of action without having extensive testing data to inform it.
But most countries only started preparing when they already started seeing outbreaks, which is months too late.
This response was the problem. Even if China had already informed the world back in November, the West wouldn't have been better prepared.
Also, the important details about transmission, infection rate, and death rate only became available once the outbreak got going in China. Before January the number of cases was just way too low to read anything out of it.
But by January we knew the relevant facts and many countries still failed to prepare.
I honestly thought that the modern world would be better able to handle a pandemic. We have all the scientific knowledge and all the tools to handle it well, but our politicians refused to use these tools in time.
It's frustrating.
To think back to the 1918 Spanish Flu (that most likely originated from a poultry farm in the US btw., the only reason its called Spanish Flu is that the Spanish press wasn't censored at the time and so it was the first to report on it):
That was a time shortly after microbiology was "discovered". So this was the first pandemic in human history where we actually understood what was happening, but we weren't yet ready to actually fight the "invisible enemy".
Today we are able to fight it, but we still fucked it up.
We, as humans, should have been better than this.
Consider how big of an issue epidemics and pandemics have been throughout our history: Every religious scripture goes on at length about them, they have been seen as seminal events like huge wars, impacting everyone's lives in massive ways. They marked the ends and beginning of eras and empires. It was something humans just never could do anything about. People were simply at fates mercy.
But now, in a time where we can take fate into our own hands, we fail, because we can't bring ourselves to listen to the scientists when what they have to say sounds inconvenient. What our ancestors would have given to have a fighting chance against a threat like this...
And what's especially interesting is how the different ideologies across the world have all fucked it up in different ways.
China put it authoritarian way of doing stuff ahead of scientific considerations and especially the crucial free scientific expression and debate.
Had doctors and researchers not been censored we would have learned important things about this virus much quicker. Science is based on collaboration, that's the entire reason why people write and cite papers. Your work always relies on other peoples work.
China only look at the communist party's bottom line and even now is just doing things from which it thinks it will benefit the most.
The West, on the other hand, had apparently fallen into a state of complacency after there wasn't a major epidemic in over 100 years now and apparently had almost religious faith in that everything will be already.
On top of that, it is also now facing the fact that healthcare systems which are entirely or partially part of a free market, aren't prepared for extreme situations like these.
So China has a problem with its ideology, while the West has a problem with its system and complacency.
Both have the science they need, but both still manage to fuck it in different ways.
I am very confident that when all is said and done, the countries who will have managed this crisis the best, will be the ones who listened to their scientists the most and didn't censor or ignore them.
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MasterDerico
Member
It's because now she needs to be hygienic.
GamingKaiju
Member
betrayal
Banned
Measles, SARS, MERS-CoV, Lasse Fever, Dengue Fever, Ebola, Zika Virus, etc.
Almost every single year there are several outbreaks of the pathogens just mentioned. Should all borders be closed immediately every time? Some people here simply lack perspective and knowledge. That is no problem, but then people should hold back with stupid claims and pseudo-intellectual statements.
Disease outbreaks by year
www.who.int
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Malakhov
Banned
Of course they should, just like when you get the flu and stay home instead of going to work and spread itMeasles, SARS, MERS-CoV, Lasse Fever, Dengue Fever, Ebola, Zika Virus, etc.
Almost every single year there are several outbreaks of the pathogens just mentioned. Should all borders be closed immediately every time? Some people here simply lack perspective and knowledge. That is no problem, but then people should hold back with stupid claims and pseudo-intellectual statements.
Disease outbreaks by year
betrayal
Banned
Did you check the link i've posted? So we should have 100 or more border closures per year across the world?
I don't understand the connection between staying at home when you have the flu and border closures. So now every country should close its borders as soon as someone has the flu?
Malakhov
Banned
We should have border closures when a serious threat is up, in January the threat was confirmed as being one. The h1n1 was a serious threat, Sars, swine flu etc... You're just being dishonest in throwing everything together now
If you don't see the connection between staying home when you have the flu and a country closing its borders to prevent spreading a threat well I can't help you
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nush
Member
That wasn't true, the Madame / mamasan took the fall for her girls so they would not be hounded by the press.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
You could find anecdotes and say some people for just about anything
Bullet Club
Banned
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
There's only so much room in the freezer and such. At some point you gotta feel safe
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
I was finally able to buy tp at the store yesterday. So my ass will be taken care of for at least another month.
PrellboGark
Banned
Measles, SARS, MERS-CoV, Lasse Fever, Dengue Fever, Ebola, Zika Virus, etc.
Almost every single year there are several outbreaks of the pathogens just mentioned. Should all borders be closed immediately every time? Some people here simply lack perspective and knowledge. That is no problem, but then people should hold back with stupid claims and pseudo-intellectual statements.
Disease outbreaks by year
The thing is, and this was known before, that a Pandemic can only happen if the disease has certain properties.
Ebola for example just doesn't spread fast enough to cause a pandemic. Most diseases actually just require regional action.
But there is always the chance that one will come along that has the right properties to spread across the globe.
The game plan here is to communicate internationally and share information early.
The second China shut down they should have shared their reasoning. The scientific information about the virus at the point already warranted extreme measures.
The other thing is that not everything in a Pandemic is up to immediate action. Many things depend on preparation.
There needs to be proper infrastructure in every country to quickly ramp up testing if necessary.(Labs) There needs to be a plan for quickly increasing medical resources. And for fucks sake, every country should be able to produce its own damn masks.
We have all this technology and wealth and at the end of the day people die because we don't manage the give them enough pieces of cloth? Thats ridiculous.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
That doesn't make it any less truthful, buddy. Whatever helps you sleep.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Well actually it kinda does. You could trawl the internet and find Trump supporters saying something racist and use that to make the point that Trump supporters are racist. That would, however, be intellectually dishonest. You could similarly trawl the internet to find a British person who hates tea and use that to make the point that the British are going off tea. That would be similarly intellectually dishonest. The point here is that in neither case is it statistically significant - it's anecdotal bollocks and anyone adhering to the scientific method should disregard such. If the vast majority of people just think the Chinese government are a bunch of cunts but you can find a small number of people from trawling twitter or whatever, that doesn't mean that people bagging on China are racist, it means that you successfully found a small number of quotes to match a narrative, which is precisely the kind of bullshit the media has been pulling, and which I expect Gaf members to be above.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Makes me want to travel now : D
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