Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Damn, a few days ago yet another Diamond Princess passenger died. That's a long illness, and there are still people who haven't recovered.
 
DeepEnigma said:
Heard this was in Greenwich Connecticut, any word on this?

Also, would be a shame...

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The "keep working and not testing first responders, no PPE around unconfirmed patients", and not letting them know if patients they come in contact with test positive either, is something I'm hearing from 4 different close doctor and nursing friends from 4 different states as well.

There are no protocols in favor at all for our HCPs right now. These hospital directors need to be dragged out and face the consequences. "Following orders" is not an excuse in WW2 for the Axis, and it SHOULD NOT BE ONE NOW.

I would not be shocked if people fucking snap and go "postal".

And the useful idiots in the MSM spending all their questions on anti-Trump sound bites instead of the important shit like our first responders and all of this popping up everywhere for weeks, FUCK YOU TO HELL AND BACK.

Nobody will be there to protect you, and they will remember you if this really turns south purge style. There are some evil motherfuckers pulling some strings right now for all of this to be too much of a coincidence that it's happening in every single healthcare facility.
 
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Karma Jawa said:
It'll be more than that. My guess would be 4K.

This is the stage where the figures start to rapidly climb.
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oatmeal said:
Wow.

Trump said back door.
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Fact check: Mostly False: Trump said back door. They went out the front door!

- Although they did leave the building, Trump racistly suggested (much like Rosa Parks, in the back of the bus) that they would be taken out of the back door.
 
hariseldon said:
So.. now I'm at a computer instead of my phone and I can get this done properly rather than shitposting.

First up, you're trying to present yourself as a centrist, a normal person. And you used the phrase 'Boris The Butcher'. That is the kind of language you only see from a certain class. It's like if someone uses the word cuck you know what you're dealing with, so you know that Boris The Butcher, the idea of our elected Prime Minister as some goon grinning maniacally at the deaths of thousands, looking for new and exciting ways to torture his poor slaves, when someone thinks that way you're not dealing with someone who is thinking clearly and rationally. That I've encountered this type so often in Bristol, and so infrequently elsewhere, and that these people are all basically cut-out clones of each other, makes it easy to paint a picture of you. Bristol is infested squatters/XR-cunts.

So, having established that it is almost impossible that you are any kind of centrist, that you are in fact almost certainly either on the far-left, or deranged by the mass media into being one of those people who thinks 2016 was the worst, apart from Boris being elected which is even worse, let's get to the business of whether or not Boris is competent to do the job.

First up, I think we must acknowledge that there is no magical solution where one can wave a wand and guarantee that nobody dies. Further, there is not necessarily full agreement even now, let alone back when this started, on what the best solution is. We'll look at some of that early response.

First up, you accuse the government of being callous with people's lives with the herd immunity thing, proving conclusively that you take your talking points from Twitter. At that time the spread wasn't too fast, it looked manageable. We had the prospect of waiting 18 months for a vaccine (and that's assuming it comes - that's not a certainty). The alternative is to manage the infection through the population so that the NHS can cope with the rate of infections and then you can get people who have had that exposure back into the economy to keep business working, people fed, rent paid, and allow Britain to come out the other side in a healthier shape than our competitors. There's value in that when our competitors include China and Russia - the West needs to come out of this strong or the world risks becoming more authoritarian through their influence, but I'll leave that to one side for now. The strategy here bypasses wishing for a vaccine miracle, and gives us a better preparation for the next pandemic, as our immune systems will be in pretty damn good shape for fighting the next one given the work-out it'll have with this one.

This strategy might have worked had the spread been manageable. It turned out it was not. It spread more quickly than expected. Now the spread is a tricky thing to predict from the off because it depends on many things but mainly on how many people each infected person meets and for how long, in how close proximity, etc. That is highly dependent on culture, demographics, density of population in different places, etc, so it's a hard calculation to get bang on. We tried, it didn't quite come off, so we're going to plan B which is to slow the spread down through lockdown. Even there, the government has resisted authoritarianism - I genuinely believe that Boris is not a fan of it. He doesn't want to be the PM that put the army on British streets, he wanted people to have the common sense to do the right thing. He could probably have been stricter but hindsight is always 20/20.

Yesterday Matt Hancock wrote off £13bn of NHS debt. Boris was elected on a promise of huge investment in the NHS, and since the crisis he and Rishi Sunek have given the NHS a blank cheque, though it's worth noting that no amount of money can make this manageable since there is still a finite number of individuals available with the right training, a finite amount of materials, a finite amount of production capacity. The underfunding of the NHS under previous Tory governments has definitely been a problem - but it seems to me that Boris doesn't want to work that way. Given very little of the current cabinet was behind the policy decisions that led to austerity (let's face it, that was Cameron and Osbourne's baby) and given the influx of new MPs from the North with a very different set of priorities, I'd say this is a new government and should be treated as such, while accepting that there are pockets of arseholery such as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Having got through that, let's consider testing strategy. First up, testing as we go isn't necessarily useful. If we know someone's probably got it because they have the symptoms, the goals are to get them through the disease and prevent them from spreading it. The advice given has been to self-isolate, solving the latter problem, while for most people a few weeks in bed will solve the former. For the cases that require hospitalisation, they go to hospital. This strategy has the added bonus of not stretching an NHS that's going to need all the resources it can get (oh by the way we're rapidly building huge NHS Nightingale hospitals to help with that). So the testing here isn't useful. As for testing NHS staff: I go back to my earlier point. A test won't tell people anything they don't already know - the only time it's actually useful is if a staff member is self-isolating so we can figure out whether we can get them back onto the front line to help our country in crisis. With the number of asymptomatic carriers it's a given that, despite anyone's best efforts, doctors are going to come into contact with people with the disease, so managing staff in terms of getting them out if they have the infection but are asymptomatic doesn't necessarily do anyone any good, and potentially deprives the NHS of a useful person. Where I do have a criticism is the lack of PPE, but while there are a small number of good examples, most countries have struggled with this. The government should have done better though, and the media has for once been useful in holding the government to account on that.

Next let's consider the way they've chosen to support the economy, given your comment about millions being unable to pay their bills. The government launched support the likes of which we've never seen in this country, offering to pay the wages of employees to enable companies to keep their staff while they have no income. Other countries are not as generous. I work for a company that is having to furlough staff - our British staff aren't losing a penny as they are topping up the furlough but our staff elsewhere are losing out because similar schemes don't exist in their countries (and we can't transfer them to the British company to furlough under British law sadly). This isn't just generous though, it's smart, because those companies will be able to restart quickly once we're in a position to fire the economy up again. It's a vastly better solution than airdropping money into people's accounts as Trump plans to do because all that would do, with nowhere to spend the money, is push up the price of toilet paper. The whole way through this you can see the government not just looking at what's the best short-term play, but what's the best way to come out the other side with as many people as possible in the best possible shape biologically through immunity and economically (and the latter is important - people need to be able to pay the rent and feed their families).

I hope you give a considered response to this post, there is more that I wanted to say but it's too fucking long already and I suspect most people won't want to read something as long as this. TLDR the government is thinking ahead, there are no perfect solutions and it's easy to snipe from the sidelines when you're not under enormous pressure (honestly I'd not want to be Boris right now and I reckon probably Boris doesn't want to be Boris right now).
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What a lot of Tory-apologist wank. You don't establish a single thing about me, but proceed to base your ad hominem reaction to yet another fabricated construction of your own creation.

I'm happy for you that you are able to avoid antagonistic, abusive, and fictitious posts when no longer restricted by the technology available, but you've already established your character and the content of your latest reply hardly warrants a detailed response. Yes there are millions being left to struggle with no support (the many millions renting, for a start), but you are happy to gloss over that and the disastrous decisions made by the government (decisions almost unanimously criticised by the experts Gove has had enough of) to maintain what is frankly a treasonous agenda.
 
11,600 In Mad Rush At Chinese Border
This is the moment travellers fall over one another as thousands force their way into a border post before China announced stricter measures for those returning to the mainland last week.

Shocking video from Macau's Lotus Bridge checkpoint shows mask-wearing travellers lugging bags and suitcases as they queue in their thousands to enter the city of Zhuhai in China's southern province of Guangdong.

www.liveleak.com

ItemFix - Social Video Factory

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Shock Vids As Chinese Clash With Cops In COVID Province
This video shows thousands of residents, including police, marching across a bridge in China's coronavirus epicentre Hubei Province and clashing with border police in a neighbouring city as lockdown measures are lifted.

Footage of the dramatic incident shows large crowds from Huangmei County, which is in Huanggang City in China's central Hubei Province, walking across the First Yangtze River Bridge on 27th March

www.liveleak.com

ItemFix - Social Video Factory

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Been seeing all this news about how successful China has been with controlling covid and how they're opening the economy back up. Ive said it before but get more suss about China doing this deliberately as a strategy for world domination. It's reported they have labs in Wuhan the epicentre of the outbreak who have probably been researching this shit for years and so understand the best ways to control it. Perhaps they already do have a vaccine in case things get really out of control. They know it's highly contagious and with a mortality rate countries will worry about. They also know strict social distancing measures will be effective which they know an authoritarian regime can execute swiftly and effectively. Whilst western democratic structures would struggle with slow and uncompliant lock down measures which they know will weaken the countries economic strength because of how long they will need to switch the economy off.
Really when you look back the way they executed their lock downs was swift and organised. Almost pre-empted and planned. hey're using their strength while leveraging others weakness against themselves to win. And using the virus as the catalyst and the strength of their massive population as the suicide bomber carriers to the rest of the world. It's very covert warfare and sounds like science fiction but don't underestimate the strategic mind of the Chinese to win the global domination war. They wrote that shit Sun Tzu The Art of War.
 
Saw this on twitter, this guy predicted back in Feb 28, when there were only 60 cases in US, that US was on the road of not be able to contain this virus anymore.

 
oatmeal said:
Legit just watched that and time stamped it.

It's bonkers:

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Why do people act like saying that the Wu Flu is going away is an absurd statement? Of course it is going away eventually.

And immediately the American press whines about Bennies for Illegals. They care more about illegals getting free shit than basement dwellers care about tendies.

And then they don't get that the federal government stockpile will obviously be given to states. Where else would the US government use them at? The Virgin Islands?

Jonsoncao said:
Saw this on twitter, this guy predicted back in Feb 28, when there were only 60 cases in US, that US was on the road of not be able to contain this virus anymore.

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We aren't going to contain it - no country is. The few countries that claim to be are lying, outside of Germany (and even then they just have slowed it to minimize the death rate).
 
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DeepEnigma said:
Yeah, it would be a shame for the people of Canada if their globalist puppet cuts off their supply.
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As a Canadian I'm more annoyed with our fuckwit of a leader than Trump. If we had competent leadership in this country we wouldn't have tried to earn brownie points on the world stage by giving away medical supplies in the first place.
This is what happens when you vote in a globalist moron who is more concerned with how he LOOKS on the world stage rather than his actions.
Maybe if he wasn't such a shit bird behind Trumps back he might have had a better chance of rapport with his USA counterpart, but instead he played the teenage gossip queen and the wonders why the USA is perfectly fine giving Canada the finger.
Maybe if Canada would actually get back to building shit again we could take care of ourselves... but we don't have a hope in hell with the drama teacher at the wheel, we can't even get our own resources out of the country (oil)
 
A Federal Reserve economist estimated America could be seeing over 30 percent unemployment in a few months — more than the nadir of the Great Depression.

Thanks to America's uniquely boneheaded insistence on tying health insurance to employment, a great many of these people also suddenly find themselves without health coverage — one of several ways the novel coronavirus pandemic is hammering the insurance system. But the problem will also affect more than those who have lost their jobs. If Congress doesn't do something very big — like throwing every American onto the military's Tricare program — the system is in very real danger of collapsing altogether.

…The whole medical system is facing an unprecedented surge of costs across the board. A bad case of COVID-19 can leave people in the ICU for weeks, and hospitals across the country are already having to work flat out to try to save as many people as possible. They are chewing through their reserves of supplies and working their staff to the bone.

Meanwhile, insurance companies are losing millions of their enrollees at the same time as millions of others require extremely expensive care. Analysts are predicting as much as a 40 percent hike in premiums next year to cover these costs.

The private insurance system, which has already been coming apart at the seams due to endlessly-skyrocketing costs, would be further undermined — if it isn't bankrupted and destroyed altogether.
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If it takes a pandemic of biblical proportions and 30% of Americans losing their jobs to bring about universal health care, so be it. Bernie tried to make you take your medicine, but you didn't want it.

B-b-but how will you pay for it? The price just went up, try the GREAT DEPRESSION VOL. 2.
 
E-Cat said:
If it takes a pandemic of biblical proportions and 30% of Americans losing their jobs to bring about universal health care, so be it. Bernie tried to make you take your medicine, but you didn't want it.

B-b-but how will you pay for it? The price just went up, try the GREAT DEPRESSION VOL. 2.
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Except this would be a temporary cost rather than an annualized one.
 
Captain Zyrain said:
I just remember there being a sentiment around here that "2K/day deaths by Easter" was some kind of fear-mongering nonsense.
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NY alone will probably be over 1k a day in a couple of weeks.

I'm not trying to scaremonger. It will differ considerably across the different states as it's going to hit highly populated areas hard. With the population of the US, and the exponential growth of this virus, you'll be seeing a rapid growth in infected people. The vast majority will just have a cough and maybe a fever, but approximately one in five will need treatment in hospital, and a percentage of them will end up in the ICU. Rough figures suggest half of those will die.

When everyone can be infected, a small percentage of a population at risk of death is still going to be a huge figure.

This can be beaten by easing the burden on the health services, and that means doing whatever we can to avoid potentially passing the virus on to others, even if we're asymptomatic. The high number of deaths are largely due to hospitals not being able to cope with the volumes of new patients. Many of those who have died could have been saved by stagnating the rate that people are hospitalised.

If we all do our bit we can keep these figures at a manageable level. Unfortunately that will probably only be achievable by tanking the global economy.
 
E-Cat said:
Yeah, but perhaps it would make people realize how absurd and brittle the current system is.

Then again, maybe not...
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It's not brittle - we are taking almost the exact same steps as every other country is, so if those steps are the correct response and our system is brittle, then their systems are just as brittle.

All that is left is expanding Medicaid, which is basically done now for Wu Flu treatment.
 
infinitys_7th said:
We aren't going to contain it - no country is. The few countries that claim to be are lying, outside of Germany (and even then they just have slowed it to minimize the death rate).
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Besides an already-back-at-manufacturing China, you think Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan are lying as well?
 
Jonsoncao said:
Besides an already-back-at-manufacturing China, you think Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan are lying as well?
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Japan definitely, and they and the others have better hygiene than the west anyway when it comes to not spreading disease. Given the recent news about mere breath spreading it, masks are a lot more beneficial than China or WHO or anyone let on.
 
infinitys_7th said:
It's not brittle - we are taking almost the exact same steps as every other country is, so if those steps are the correct response and our system is brittle, then their systems are just as brittle.

All that is left is expanding Medicaid, which is basically done now for Wu Flu treatment.
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So, if you lose your job and/or your insurance, you're definitely not paying anything for hospitalization due to COVID-19? Because otherwise it's not "taking almost the exact same steps as every other country is".

The reason I say that is because I keep seeing stories like this:

A new analysis from the Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that the average cost of COVID-19 treatment for someone with employer insurance—and without complications—would be about $9,763. Someone whose treatment has complications may see bills about double that: $20,292. (The researchers came up with those numbers by examining average costs of hospital admissions for people with pneumonia.)
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And that is for people with insurance, mind you.
 
E-Cat said:
So, if you lose your job and/or your insurance, you're definitely not paying anything for hospitalization due to COVID-19? Because otherwise it's not "taking almost the exact same steps as every other country is".

The reason I say that is because I keep seeing stories like this:



And that is for people with insurance, mind you.
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www.nytimes.com

Trump Says Hospitals Will Be Paid for Treating Uninsured Coronavirus Patients (Published 2020)

Critics say that the plan may not go to hospitals in the states hit the hardest so far and that it fails to address the problems of uninsured people more generally.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Trump Says Hospitals Will Be Paid for Treating Uninsured Coronavirus Patients
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infinitys_7th said:
www.nytimes.com

Trump Says Hospitals Will Be Paid for Treating Uninsured Coronavirus Patients (Published 2020)

Critics say that the plan may not go to hospitals in the states hit the hardest so far and that it fails to address the problems of uninsured people more generally.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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"Critics say that the plan may not go to hospitals in the states hit the hardest so far and that it fails to address the problems of uninsured people more generally."

Too little, too late?
 
E-Cat said:
"Critics say that the plan may not go to hospitals in the states hit the hardest so far and that it fails to address the problems of uninsured people more generally."

Too little, too late?
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Unlike funds to hospitals to pay for the uninsured who develop Covid-19, "insurance coverage would give newly unemployed people access to primary care, urgent care and prescription drugs to get symptoms checked and treated," Mr. Fishman said, including those with health problems other than coronavirus.
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Tests are free:

www.nytimes.com

Now That Coronavirus Tests Are Free, Some Insurers Are Waiving Costs for Treatment (Published 2020)

But you could still face high medical bills. Experts advise consumers to not write a check immediately because more aid may be coming.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

And prescription drugs and urgent care are going to be costs assessed by the hospital for anyone with symptoms requiring hospitalization.

And people should not be going to their primary care physicians anyway now - social distancing, after all. Doctor's offices and hospitals are nasty places full of sick people. If you have symptoms call your health department and get tested at a drive-thru station.

All that said, the next step as people lose general health coverage without a way to pay is to expand the Medicaid income limits.
 
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12Goblins said:


icu doc in nyc thinks we are dealing not with ARDS but something that more resembles high altitude pulmonary edema
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From Wikipedia:

"HAPE generally develops in the first 2 to 4 days of hiking at altitudes >2,500 meters (8,200 ft), and symptoms seem to worsen most commonly on the second night.[7] Initial symptoms are vague and include shortness of breath, decreased exercise ability, increased recovery time, fatigue, and weakness, especially with walking uphill.[7][3] People then develop a dry, persistent cough, and often cyanosis of the lips. Another cardinal feature of HAPE is the rapid progression to dyspnea at rest.[7][3] The development of pink, frothy, or frankly bloody sputum are late features of HAPE.[7][3] In some cases, people will develop concomitant neurological features such as poor coordination, altered consciousness, or cerebral edema (High-altitude cerebral edema).[7][3]"

This sounds remarkably like Covid19.

Also, the doctors in Italy filmed inside their own ICU and the patients all had these greenish blue lips, as described in the above entry.

Also, anecdotal here, but Chris Cuomo of CNN said that on his third night with Civid19 he saw his father sitting on the couch right in front of him - this fits the 'altered conscious' that's symptomatic with HAPE.

Super interesting.

EDIT: Also, there's this...

"Treatment: "Though they have not formally been studied for the treatment of HAPE, phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitors such as sildenafil and tadalafil are also effective[14"

Viagra! I have that!
 
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