Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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If they told us not to wear masks because of health care workers then I understand but think that was a huge mistake and miscalculation.

Masks don't protect you that much, but they protect others and its a major way we can slow down the spread of the virus. Its like a condom. The condom won't protect your cock from getting sperm on it, but it will protect that fine big boobed Asian from getting sperm inside of her.

The virus "load" comes from when we spit/talk/sneeze etc... Well its sure as hell better that someone is expelling virus particles into their mask then into someones face.

So I think the WHO and world governments really fucked up, and humanity is fucked up too if they would of hoarded everything. Welp they actually kinda did in China where their Daigous were running around hoarding all the masks and sanitizer.

But that will be one of the mistakes we will look back on in a few months/years and realize that we probably did everything wrong when facing off against this pandemic.
 
Mohonky said:
In general, yes.

China did go in brutal on the isolation and quarantine regimen but it was too late and I do believe they played down the potential for the international spread probably because of the economic blow back (which of course as we now know, would have been a drop in the bucket compared to what it would eventually turn out to be). They need to be setting higher infection control protocols in wet markets and enforcing them. Until they do, the chance of continued zoonotic virus transmissions will forever be an issue.
Click to expand...
I used to think China was a "light" communist country, but as more time goes by, they keep showing that they will do what it takes to control their people.
 
Mohonky said:
That's the thing, look at people using home made face coverings.....they are basically droplet magnets.

The thing with face masks is that they need to be totally sealed; if you are wearing one, you should see the mask move with inhaling and exhaling; so it needs to be the appropriate fit and if you have facial hair, then it's not going to be able to do it's job. Once used it's also an exposure hazard, it needs to be removed correctly and disposed of correctly. Again, things most people don't do correctly.

The best form of protection really is isolation. We're learning that this virus can survive even on clothing for over 24hrs; so if you wear something out and about, you should immediately put those clothes in a hot wash and clean yourself before putting any other clothes on. Avoid touching your face or having your hands in or around your mouth in case you have touched something that has come into contact with the virus......also sanitise sanitise sanitise. Gel hand sanitisers both kill the virus as well as build up a layer that is harder for it to adhere to so there is less chance of you accidentally carrying it around.

Nothing however is going to beat avoiding it all together.
Click to expand...

The idea with the homemade masks is to reduce the spread if you're sick, not to stop you from contracting it.
 
marcyf said:
Understand completely. Then explain to people the need not to hoard, alternatives (home made face coverings), and the need to self-isolate in the interim. Perhaps, explaining the benefit of masks would also have allowed some of our essential service workers in grocery stores, pahramcies and gas stations, to have gotten supplies and worn them earlier.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that wouldn't work in most countries. If you say to people "please use a less effective solution so others can benefit more", you can be sure many will prefer their own safety (or that of their family) even if they're not especially exposed. Just look at how people react to "pleas stay at home to avoid exposing other people, especially the elderly". Or "please don't hoard toilet paper and hydroalcoholic gel".
 
Alx said:
Unfortunately that wouldn't work in most countries. If you say to people "please use a less effective solution so others can benefit more", you can be sure many will prefer their own safety (or that of their family) even if they're not especially exposed. Just look at how people react to "pleas stay at home to avoid exposing other people, especially the elderly". Or "please don't hoard toilet paper and hydroalcoholic gel".
Click to expand...
I agree it's not perfect, however, not trusting the advice from our leadership, could be worse. Why listen when they say to self-isolate, or self-quarantine, if we don't trust what's being told.
 
marcyf said:
Any ideas on where to read for the most objective information? So far I have original sources, and recommend sources below:

1. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html
2. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
3. https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...ing-threats/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19
4. https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus#tab=tab_1
5. https://www.seniorsafetyreviews.com/coronavirus-updates-resources/
Click to expand...

I listen to this Dr. Drosten guys podcast every day. He is probably the most reputable virologist when it comes to coronaviruses and I don't think there is any source with more authority when it comes to this topic.

I try not to get caught up in daily numbers. It doesn't make sense.
 
Halo is Dead said:
I used to think China was a "light" communist country, but as more time goes by, they keep showing that they will do what it takes to control their people.
Click to expand...

There was some reports from Australians caught up in Wuhan that were talking about the Chinese response and they described how quickly enforcement came in and completely locked the place down. So it's not like they took it lightly, more that maybe they underestimated it and in all fairness, everyone did.

Singapore is an interesting case study. Sure, it's a small country (well it's really just a city) but their protocols are insane;

- they have clinics available specifically just to test people during outbreaks
- if you are positive or suspected of being positive, you are ordered into lock down.
- special teams then go through surveillance footage of that persons movements over the last few days and contact every person who was contact with that person and have them in for testing
- anyone in isolation or lockdown receives a text message that the person has to respond too,that response is GPS tagged to ensure they are in isolation.

I know in the west we'd be screaming blue murder about that sort of 'big brother' style approach of surveillance, but man they do not fuck around and were all over this the second it hit.
 
I'm really curious (and afraid) what some governments are going to do next. Lifting some lockdowns may seem like the only way to save the economy from a total crash and to make key public services available again, but the death count will likely surge again after about 2 weeks. Like for instance Denmark is planning to reopen some schools on April 15th despite not seeing any drops in daily deaths from the coronavirus. So do we keep things closed and people isolated until summer to limit the number of infected as much as possible? Or do we start living with the coronavirus and with the real threat that many weaker members of the society will be dying in much larger numbers than before the pandemic?
 
PrellboGark said:


I think they have no idea what they are talking about.
Click to expand...


Possibly gaming the market to try and restore some faith?


Zefah said:
Interesting video from Tucker yesterday:



He makes a good point about how the "stay home, except to buy food" directive that has everyone going to supermarkets all the time doesn't really make a lot of sense if the goal is to get the results of a proper quarantine, especially considering just how contagious this thing is and how it can remain on surfaces and spread simply by talking to someone within 2 meters.
Click to expand...


People are just dumb. The idea should be to go to the store as infrequently as possible. Go, stock up more than you normally would and try not to go back for at least a couple weeks. Instead, people seem to be acting like its the only thing to do these days so they go to the store every other day for trivial shit.
 
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xrnzaaas said:
I'm really curious (and afraid) what some governments are going to do next. Lifting some lockdowns may seem like the only way to save the economy from a total crash and to make key public services available again, but the death count will likely surge again after about 2 weeks. Like for instance Denmark is planning to reopen some schools on April 15th despite not seeing any drops in daily deaths from the coronavirus. So do we keep things closed and people isolated until summer to limit the number of infected as much as possible? Or do we start living with the coronavirus and with the real threat that many weaker members of the society will be dying in much larger numbers than before the pandemic?
Click to expand...
Similar to airport security and terrorism, we should just set up checkpoints and monitor people for health problems. People who are confirmed sick/infected are immediately told to go home.
Do this with every business and school.
 
HellforLeather said:
People are just dumb. The idea should be to go to the store as infrequently as possible. Go, stock up more than you normally would and try not to go back for at least a couple weeks. Instead, people seem to be acting like its the only thing to do these days so they go to the store every other day for trivial shit.
Click to expand...

I mean, government officials have made it a point to tell people to not hoard items and that stores would continue to be well stocked...
 
Zefah said:
I mean, government officials have made it a point to tell people to not hoard items and that stores would continue to be well stocked...
Click to expand...

Its up to your personal definition where stocking up ends and hording begins I suppose but taking carts full of hand sanitizer and TP is not what I mean.

EDIT: on further reflection, maybe my initial reaction is unfair. Its just hard not to apply the anecdotal stories I hear from co-workers to the public at large. Just the other day someone told me they went to the store just because they were out of milk, which doesnt seem like a justification for a trip to the store these days. Risking exposure or potentially infecting dozens of other people because you cant be bothered to eat your Cheerios without milk.
 
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Since the virus jas not the same spread rate around the US. We can expect that once it reduces on NY other states will start to sume cases? By example California and Florida, it seems they are on earlier stages ...
Or are most states on the same stage, specially the ones more populated?
 
Loki said:
Question for anyone who has loved ones with COVID in the hospitals right now (especially in NY/NJ): how are you staying apprised of their status? Has the hospital called you periodically or when there is a change in their status? Obviously visitation is impossible, so I'm wondering. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Quoting again because I'd like to hear others' experiences with this and how they found out status without visiting the hospital.
 
globalnews.ca

30,000 ventilators to be made in Canada amid coronavirus pandemic: Trudeau - National | Globalnews.ca

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced on Tuesday that the government is working with a number of Canadian companies to manufacture ventilators amid the coronavirus outbreak.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca

I hope that we aren't going to go to China to produce these. Better actually be done IN CANADA and not by Canadian companies outsourcing to China.

x6 the amount of ventilators we actually have, that could be lots of jobs for out of work Canadians thanks to CCP virus.
 
Mohonky said:
There was some reports from Australians caught up in Wuhan that were talking about the Chinese response and they described how quickly enforcement came in and completely locked the place down. So it's not like they took it lightly, more that maybe they underestimated it and in all fairness, everyone did.

Singapore is an interesting case study. Sure, it's a small country (well it's really just a city) but their protocols are insane;

- they have clinics available specifically just to test people during outbreaks
- if you are positive or suspected of being positive, you are ordered into lock down.
- special teams then go through surveillance footage of that persons movements over the last few days and contact every person who was contact with that person and have them in for testing
- anyone in isolation or lockdown receives a text message that the person has to respond too,that response is GPS tagged to ensure they are in isolation.

I know in the west we'd be screaming blue murder about that sort of 'big brother' style approach of surveillance, but man they do not fuck around and were all over this the second it hit.
Click to expand...
Im not really referring to their response to COVID-19, but their government as a whole. After watching documentaries on the nation their people are almost as brainwashed as North Korea and now they have the fucking balls to blame America for this shit show.
 
Personally I feel like this is the most dangerous time. Things are generally "looking better" and people see a light at the end of the tunnel, but now everyone is going to get very restless and want to get things back to normal ASAP.. and if we jump the gun, we risk going right back into exponential spread mode.
 
Captain Zyrain said:
Personally I feel like this is the most dangerous time. Things are generally "looking better" and people see a light at the end of the tunnel, but now everyone is going to get very restless and want to get things back to normal ASAP.. and if we jump the gun, we risk going right back into exponential spread mode.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Realistically we have to keep this up until the start of May, then we can gradually start reopening stuff.
 
Zefah said:
Interesting video from Tucker yesterday:



He makes a good point about how the "stay home, except to buy food" directive that has everyone going to supermarkets all the time doesn't really make a lot of sense if the goal is to get the results of a proper quarantine, especially considering just how contagious this thing is and how it can remain on surfaces and spread simply by talking to someone within 2 meters.
Click to expand...

Yup, the decisions taken are going to be debated for years, but I think we can't truly say we're wrong or right until the actual case fatality rate is determined.
 
HellforLeather said:
Possibly gaming the market to try and restore some faith?




People are just dumb. The idea should be to go to the store as infrequently as possible. Go, stock up more than you normally would and try not to go back for at least a couple weeks. Instead, people seem to be acting like its the only thing to do these days so they go to the store every other day for trivial shit.
Click to expand...

Yep have noted this behave , there are people going to supermarkets every 3-4 days...its like somekind of therapy due to being inside for long time and not being able to behave as before.


Also the same way is not the same keep in home for a celebrity or super rich than the most of us , is different to keep in home for someone in a city than one in that live in rural areas....

I feel sorry for the ones that just can see this throught thier windows :

images



Meanwhile at least on open areas you can see something like this ;

images
 
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Captain Zyrain said:
Personally I feel like this is the most dangerous time. Things are generally "looking better" and people see a light at the end of the tunnel, but now everyone is going to get very restless and want to get things back to normal ASAP.. and if we jump the gun, we risk going right back into exponential spread mode.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard a compelling explanation for how we leave lockdown without triggering exponential spread mode that doesn't involve the following:

- Masks everywhere, all the time.
- Temperature checkpoints.
- Mass testing and contact tracing.
- Forced quarantine for the infected.

All legally enforced.

I don't see how that happens in America or many countries, honestly.
 
Stop blaming china, stop with conspiracy theories.

Wake up to the reality and find your deep intuition and spirituality. There's nothing you can do now, just reflection.

The world pushed the handbrake.

Time to stop and think on more important things than money, politics, ideology.
It's time to be a better person, to contact the light.
 
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Zefah said:
Interesting video from Tucker yesterday:



He makes a good point about how the "stay home, except to buy food" directive that has everyone going to supermarkets all the time doesn't really make a lot of sense if the goal is to get the results of a proper quarantine, especially considering just how contagious this thing is and how it can remain on surfaces and spread simply by talking to someone within 2 meters.
Click to expand...



I was just trying to watch this and I had to stop when he showed the clip of the doctor from WHO talking about coming into your home and removing a sick person and isolating them

but Tucker turns that whole clip around saying the man said they are coming for YOUR Children?!

Why do we accept the media to get away with this kind of crap? And that is just 1 minute in... sheesh. I really don't like the WHO but seriously do we have to shut down our brains and let these talking heads translate English words into their own English words just so they can make their own stories? Can't we just keep what the guy said as he said it without reacting out and saying he means they are coming for our children.
 
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Mohonky said:
That's the thing, look at people using home made face coverings.....they are basically droplet magnets.

The thing with face masks is that they need to be totally sealed; if you are wearing one, you should see the mask move with inhaling and exhaling; so it needs to be the appropriate fit and if you have facial hair, then it's not going to be able to do it's job. Once used it's also an exposure hazard, it needs to be removed correctly and disposed of correctly. Again, things most people don't do correctly.

The best form of protection really is isolation. We're learning that this virus can survive even on clothing for over 24hrs; so if you wear something out and about, you should immediately put those clothes in a hot wash and clean yourself before putting any other clothes on. Avoid touching your face or having your hands in or around your mouth in case you have touched something that has come into contact with the virus......also sanitise sanitise sanitise. Gel hand sanitisers both kill the virus as well as build up a layer that is harder for it to adhere to so there is less chance of you accidentally carrying it around.

Nothing however is going to beat avoiding it all together.
Click to expand...

They are still effective on infected person. So if everyone wears one, it's working.
 
Alx said:
Unfortunately that wouldn't work in most countries. If you say to people "please use a less effective solution so others can benefit more", you can be sure many will prefer their own safety (or that of their family) even if they're not especially exposed. Just look at how people react to "pleas stay at home to avoid exposing other people, especially the elderly". Or "please don't hoard toilet paper and hydroalcoholic gel".
Click to expand...

Lying has consequences. This approach ensures the only thing I know for sure is the government lies. Now I just do whatever I want, knowing I don't know the truth, and only will after it's irrelevant.


You wonder why Alex Jones has so many fans? Cause the government lies, and is not looking out for your best interests. Honestly if you trust the government at this point what wouldn't you believe?
 
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Zefah said:
I haven't heard a compelling explanation for how we leave lockdown without triggering exponential spread mode that doesn't involve the following:

- Masks everywhere, all the time.
- Temperature checkpoints.
- Mass testing and contact tracing.
- Forced quarantine for the infected.

All legally enforced.

I don't see how that happens in America or many countries, honestly.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the first two, but what is wrong with the second two?
America (and pretty much all other countries) already do testing and contact tracing. They just weren't doing a very good job of it back before everything went to shit. You had the people in charge acting like flubros.
Forced quarantine as well, is already legally enforced in the US, and has been enforced numerous times throughout history. Other countries probably have similar laws.
 
Zefah said:
I haven't heard a compelling explanation for how we leave lockdown without triggering exponential spread mode that doesn't involve the following:

- Masks everywhere, all the time.
- Temperature checkpoints.
- Mass testing and contact tracing.
- Forced quarantine for the infected.

All legally enforced.

I don't see how that happens in America or many countries, honestly.
Click to expand...


If they were honest they would tell you the truth. Because they don't have enough tests to test people randomly they don't know how many people have it. It could be the case that half the country has it but we don't know that cause we don't have enough tests. It might be the case that this quarantine isn't doing much and we are close to a herd immunity threshold.


In Germany they found a lot of people volunteering to give blood had it, and did not know they did, because of how mild their symptoms were.


Without random testing of the population with a test that will detect low levels of antibodies for people with mild symptoms we have no idea what the situation. Is or what is prudent. All we know is the government will lie to try to get us to do what it wants at this moment.
 
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Ok, so far evidence suggests cats can indeed get COVID-19. They actually show symptons after they get it.
The good news, so far, and hopefully it remains that way until proven otherwise:
Humans can spread it to them, but not vice versa.

So in theory you have an animal that's a natural COVID-19 detector to some degree.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I was just trying to watch this and I had to stop when he showed the clip of the doctor from WHO talking about coming into your home and removing a sick person and isolating them

but Tucker turns that whole clip around saying the man said they are coming for YOUR Children?!

Why do we accept the media to get away with this kind of crap? And that is just 1 minute in... sheesh. I really don't like the WHO but seriously do we have to shut down our brains and let these talking heads translate English words into their own English words just so they can make their own stories? Can't we just keep what the guy said as he said it without reacting out and saying he means they are coming for our children.
Click to expand...
It's a bit of sensationalist pandering you have to subtract from his rants. He still raises some valid points after you account for that though.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I was just trying to watch this and I had to stop when he showed the clip of the doctor from WHO talking about coming into your home and removing a sick person and isolating them

but Tucker turns that whole clip around saying the man said they are coming for YOUR Children?!

Why do we accept the media to get away with this kind of crap? And that is just 1 minute in... sheesh. I really don't like the WHO but seriously do we have to shut down our brains and let these talking heads translate English words into their own English words just so they can make their own stories? Can't we just keep what the guy said as he said it without reacting out and saying he means they are coming for our children.
Click to expand...

I would have been right there with you in calling this a sensationalist interpretation even just a few months ago, but breaking into homes and forcibly removing family members for quarantine is exactly what they did in China and the WHO has nothing but praise for the Chinese response.

Still, what could the WHO guy's words mean, ultimately, once you remove the decoration like "in a safe and dignified manner." He's calling for people to be identified and removed from their environments, specifically in reference to homes and family settings. It's not something that most people will accept or comply with willingly.

gamerMan said:
Update on Boris
Click to expand...


Some good news if true. Hopefully he's able to release a video of himself speaking normally soon to reassure everyone (and disappoint the hateful maniacs).
 
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Sakura said:
I don't know about the first two, but what is wrong with the second two?
America (and pretty much all other countries) already do testing and contact tracing. They just weren't doing a very good job of it back before everything went to shit. You had the people in charge acting like flubros.
Forced quarantine as well, is already legally enforced in the US, and has been enforced numerous times throughout history. Other countries probably have similar laws.
Click to expand...

I guess I just don't see how any of it can be realistically enforced en masse in a country like the United States. I'm sure even in China, which is the most advanced police state in the world, has trouble really enforcing this kind of thing in more remote rural areas.
 
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holygeesus said:
The UK predicted to be the worst hit country in Europe, with 66,000 deaths by August.

www.theguardian.com

Coronavirus: UK will have Europe's worst death toll, says study

IHME analysis is disputed by scientists whose modelling is relied on by UK government
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Predicted to overtake France and Italy because of looser lockdown protocols and delay caused by initial herd immunity approach.
Click to expand...

Surprised they didn't use 66,600, but the 3 zeroes can be the subliminal for the third 6. ;)
 
Birdo said:
Pure fear mongering reporting when we are starting to see good news.

Enemy of the people.
Click to expand...

Why would a world leading disease data analytical company based in Seattle, care to fear monger to a UK based newspaper in regard the UK's rate of infection? What they say makes a lot of sense.
 
Mohonky said:
There was some reports from Australians caught up in Wuhan that were talking about the Chinese response and they described how quickly enforcement came in and completely locked the place down. So it's not like they took it lightly, more that maybe they underestimated it and in all fairness, everyone did.

Singapore is an interesting case study. Sure, it's a small country (well it's really just a city) but their protocols are insane;

- they have clinics available specifically just to test people during outbreaks
- if you are positive or suspected of being positive, you are ordered into lock down.
- special teams then go through surveillance footage of that persons movements over the last few days and contact every person who was contact with that person and have them in for testing
- anyone in isolation or lockdown receives a text message that the person has to respond too,that response is GPS tagged to ensure they are in isolation.

I know in the west we'd be screaming blue murder about that sort of 'big brother' style approach of surveillance, but man they do not fuck around and were all over this the second it hit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's definitely a strength of any country that opts for security in the security/freedom balance. There's good with the bad no matter where you go.

HellforLeather said:
Its up to your personal definition where stocking up ends and hording begins I suppose but taking carts full of hand sanitizer and TP is not what I mean.

EDIT: on further reflection, maybe my initial reaction is unfair. Its just hard not to apply the anecdotal stories I hear from co-workers to the public at large. Just the other day someone told me they went to the store just because they were out of milk, which doesnt seem like a justification for a trip to the store these days. Risking exposure or potentially infecting dozens of other people because you cant be bothered to eat your Cheerios without milk.
Click to expand...

Going to the store once a week shouldn't be viewed as selfish or putting people at harm's risk. Stay spaced apart, use the automatic checkout if possible, and you're really not interacting with anyone. If you're actively sick, send someone else to go for you.

Alebrije said:
Since the virus jas not the same spread rate around the US. We can expect that once it reduces on NY other states will start to sume cases? By example California and Florida, it seems they are on earlier stages ...
Or are most states on the same stage, specially the ones more populated?
Click to expand...

Most state probably won't ever reach a stage near as bad as the NE metroplex/MegaCity1 (hah) area, as most of the country isn't packed in like sardines, and doesn't rely on mass transit to the same degree.

MasterDerico said:
Stop blaming china, stop with conspiracy theories.

Wake up to the reality and find your deep intuition and spirituality. There's nothing you can do now, just reflection.

The world pushed the handbrake.

Time to stop and think on more important things than money, politics, ideology.
It's time to be a better person, to contact the light.
Click to expand...

You've got to take a hit and pass that shit, bro.
 
eot said:
Yup, the decisions taken are going to be debated for years, but I think we can't truly say we're wrong or right until the actual case fatality rate is determined.
Click to expand...

the power of hindsight is going to allow us to see all the mistakes we made, and i am sure we are going to see we made plenty of em.

I am sure we did not handle this in the best way possible. But when you are in a pandemic you sometimes don't have the opportunity to sit down and make all the correct and logical decisions.
 
holygeesus said:
Why would a world leading disease data analytical company based in Seattle, care to fear monger to a UK based newspaper in regard the UK's rate of infection? What they say makes a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the Guardian publishing it.

That article has no purpose other than to make people more scared. There is no information of any value at all.
 
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