A Most Virtuous Cat
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Spider-Man 2 Controversy: Gamers Are Stupid and Don't Know Sh*t About Development
- Thread starter ChiefDada
- Start date
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
We are stupid, so I will use few words and rely on pictures instead from Insomniac Games' GDC 2020 Conference discussing Ratchet & Clank Development process. I won't risk underestimating how high our level of ignorance can reach, so I will hold your hand in directing your attention to the dates listed on the bottom corner of each picture. Link below for the smart one's among us who wish to learn more.
Recalibrating Our Limits: Lighting on 'Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart'
The Insomniac Games lighting team was able to deliver on the promise of motion picture quality visuals and utilize lighting as a powerful artistic element. This talk will cover the setup, challenges, and lessons learned while paving the way for...www.gdcvault.com
Ok, ChiefDingaling
Zuzu
Gold Member
Sounds like the gamers version of the Liar Paradox!Quite the conundrum that OP has created.
If OP is right:
If OP is wrong:
- Gamers are stupid.
- OP is a gamer.
- OP is stupid.
- If OP is stupid, then OP's original assertion is likely wrong.
- If OP is wrong, then gamers are smart.
- If OP is smart, then OP is right.
- Repeat.
- Gamers are smart.
- OP is a gamer.
- If OP is smart, then OP is right.
- Gamers are stupid.
- OP is a gamer.
- OP is stupid.
- If OP is stupid, then OP's assertion is likely wrong.
- Repeat.
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hyperbertha
Member
Not the same.
-Zelda is a switch title. People buying a switch know what to expect.
-Zelda has the gameplay to carry it without visuals.
-they falsely advertised Spiderman as a next gen looking title with their teaser which ran in ps5.
-people spent money on ps5. If Spiderman is going to look like a PS4 title, they deserve to know before they were hyped up to buy a ps5 by the devs themselves.
-spiderman is mostly a cinematic style over substance game. Visuals are essential to carry it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't know what's worse, the rhetoric from people jumping to conclusions about an unreleased product, or the rhetoric from people jumping to its defense.
And at this point I'm afraid to ask.
And at this point I'm afraid to ask.
Umbasaborne
Banned
edit: my response was nedlessly hostile. I disagree with you, but im sorry for my earlier reply
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Umbasaborne
Banned
Amen. People seem to forget that at the end of the day we are the paying customers. I dont care that "waaah games are hard to make waaahh". Your putting out a 70 dollar product then crying on twitter. when people are pissed that your product does not live up to 70 dollar standards.
"Bubu…gamers are so entitled!!!" Imagine lobbing this complaint at someone who bought meat from the grocery store and it ended up being rotten. "Stop being so entitled, someone took time out of their day to pack that meat". Corporations have successfully cultivated an army of boot lickers on twitter. That way when someone tries to criticize them, they will get dog piled and ratio'd
Rickyiez
Member
I guess this pretty much confirmed OP's topic
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Shifty1897
Member
Puddlegate 2
GHG
Gold Member
Bo, you couldn't be more wrong here man.
Get yourself a switch oled and give it a go (play in handheld mode, don't waste your time trying to blow that up on a 4k screen). If you don't like it minimal harm done, the resell value on Nintendo hardware is good.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Eh, there is a clear downgrade from that first trailer to this, but that first trailer was more highly currated, and it was in engine but not in gameplay, so some settings could be boosted
TrebleShot
Member
I am stupid and i live for it
ChiefDada
Member
Hmmm I'm not sure if you're placing me in the latter bucket, but to be clear I'm not defending a damn thing, I'm just trying to remind people how game development works by showing a few illustrations. I stand by all of my harsh criticism of Sony's showcase including what Insomniac showed. A lot of people are upset, but their reasons aren't the same. ~99% is justified; this thread is specifically directed at the remaining 1% who are upset because they believe the gameplay trailer is a faithful representation of what the final game will look like.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
If they were like that, they wouldn't have money to feed the developers.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Right, that's what I mean. Most reasonable minded folk don't need reminding that it's a work in progress game, and the other folk who've made up their mind, or think differently at the moment, you won't be changing their thought processes especially if you lead the discussion by calling them stupid.
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Marvel14
Banned
I never said they were the same...I was talking about the high visual bar some folks require to be happy with their videogames and how that drags down their gaming experience. TOTK was just an example.
Guilty_AI
Member
spoodyman2 looked like a ps4 game.
OP says it'll look better on release.
Skepticals don't think so.
Personally i think abdicating the obsession with graphics is for the best.
But then again sony built its entire game brand and the ps5 on visuals and hardware capabilities, so the fanboy anger is just Sony getting their just desserts when they can't deliver.
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Comandr
Member
Anyone who is drawing comparisons between a game that has
1) been out for years
2) remastered for various platforms including high spec pcs
Versus… a game that's still under active development and arguably at the tail end of alpha or the beginning of beta at this time frame- you know, the part where they polish the game-
I would argue that person is stupid.
Miles morales didn't even have muscle deformation until a post launch patch much later, objectively increasing the fidelity of its models.
This isn't even his final fucking form.
Imagine being a publisher and revealing a new game in development with a cool CG trailer and then getting backlash because it's CG. Okay fine. Release a gameplay trailer of A GAME IN HEAVY DEVELOPMENT. Then get backlash because it doesn't look good. There's just no fucking pleasing anyone.
1) been out for years
2) remastered for various platforms including high spec pcs
Versus… a game that's still under active development and arguably at the tail end of alpha or the beginning of beta at this time frame- you know, the part where they polish the game-
I would argue that person is stupid.
Miles morales didn't even have muscle deformation until a post launch patch much later, objectively increasing the fidelity of its models.
This isn't even his final fucking form.
Imagine being a publisher and revealing a new game in development with a cool CG trailer and then getting backlash because it's CG. Okay fine. Release a gameplay trailer of A GAME IN HEAVY DEVELOPMENT. Then get backlash because it doesn't look good. There's just no fucking pleasing anyone.
Ronin_7
Member
And who said that other than brainless losers on Twitter who paid for Twitter blue?
Guilty_AI
Member
i'm not one to obsess over graphics, but those 4k screenshots don't really scream next-gen to me. It looks more or less like the original game.
staticshock
Member
Im gonna have to push back on this alittle.We are stupid, so I will use few words and rely on pictures instead from Insomniac Games' GDC 2020 Conference discussing Ratchet & Clank Development process. I won't risk underestimating how high our level of ignorance can reach, so I will hold your hand in directing your attention to the dates listed on the bottom corner of each picture. Link below for the smart one's among us who wish to learn more.
Recalibrating Our Limits: Lighting on 'Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart'
The Insomniac Games lighting team was able to deliver on the promise of motion picture quality visuals and utilize lighting as a powerful artistic element. This talk will cover the setup, challenges, and lessons learned while paving the way for...
Its misleading to say that graphics is the last thing that is worked on.
Its true all the bells and whistles are not worked on or alot of the times turned off so you don't bog down your system during level building/gameplay development.
Usually for a game, gameplay and story-line is being developed seperately from the graphics, as you don't want graphics getting in the way of gameplay development.
So gameplay/story-line is usually done with box (lego like) levels.
However the actual graphic fidelity the game/development team is aiming for is determined in the first quarter of development (if we imagined development being 4 NBA Quarters).
This is when you have a vertical slice that is demoed, which is usually the first gameplay or in-engine demo.
But graphics, gameplay/story are being worked on at the same time. you just have different sub-teams working on it, with their own branches.
The Cockatrice
Banned
People gave shit to CDPR but I think most of you all have been spoiled by Cyberpunks amazing graphics as well as Horizons. Anyway Spider-man 2 can look the same as the first for all I care. Gameplay and story is all that matters in a Spider-man game so I'm super hyped about it. It's gonna be awesome.
Umbasaborne
Banned
We need to get back to vertical slices that look way better than the final product will ever look. Like watch_dogs or aliens colonial marines
/s
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ResilientBanana
Member
Puddle-gate all over again.
Umbasaborne
Banned
I never understood why people got upset that a clear downgrade was pointed out. They removed reflective puddles, likely to save on performance. Thats a fact. Their are other things in that scene, spideys suit looks more detailed compared to the final game, the texture quality all around is a little better, and it also had higher quality shadows. I dont understand why people were deemed "stupid" for calling that out? At the end of the day that game had to run on a ps4, so its understandable why those cuts may have been made, or why for instance the last of us part 2 did not have many of those advanced animations shown in the trailers
Comandr
Member
BlackTron
Gold Member
Zathalus
Member
The game is less then half a year away, it's not going to look significantly different then what it currently does. Some minor tweaks at most.
As for people's expectations, maybe Insomniac shouldn't have released a teaser trailer that was significantly better then what they eventually released.
As for people's expectations, maybe Insomniac shouldn't have released a teaser trailer that was significantly better then what they eventually released.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Last comment for a bit. I can see where insomniac is coming from. Keep much of the visual quality ps4 level, but use the overhead to expand in other ways. Bigger world, more reactive world, better physics, letting the player move through the world much faster. At least I hope this is their intention.
I feel like I'm in crazy world. Screenshots always let you see flaws, but when the game is in motion you see the object on screen for a quarter second.
Did it look real? No, but a month ago everyone was going off about that FPS being photo realistic with its body cam view. Let it looked like a very basic game in multiple parts in the video. But I some people like to complain rather than having fun. In a world full of numerous flavors, they always choose salt.
Did it look real? No, but a month ago everyone was going off about that FPS being photo realistic with its body cam view. Let it looked like a very basic game in multiple parts in the video. But I some people like to complain rather than having fun. In a world full of numerous flavors, they always choose salt.
Neff
Member
No argument needed, it's pretty much a fact.
Most gamers want several games a year, every year, with 80+ hours of gameplay, and Matrix Awakens levels of visuals throughout in 4K 120fps. So they can sell it and buy another used game.
The discrepancy between player expectations and feasible industry economics has never been greater.
Interfectum
Member
Says the grown ass man hyped for a Spider-Man game.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. This is so important. Remember, they announced Horizon and Miles as PS5 only at first. Only admitting they were not after preorders went live.
Then for a whole year they advertised GT7 as next gen only featuring RT in every trailer. Jimbo was asked point blank if GoW Ragnorak was next gen only at a launch interview and straight up refused to confirm it.
These guys know exactly what they are doing. They hype up this shit knowing we would buy their consoles or hold on to it for a promise of big things to come. They knew that Ratchet in June 2021 was the last true next gen from Sony first party for the next 2.5 years so they released TLOU Part 1, a PS4 game as a PS5 game and called it a day. Now they are doing the same thing with spiderman 2.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Where's the lie tho?
Your average gamer doesn't know shit about the game development process or pipelines, but they sure argue like experts with disingenuous screencaps and using tech demos, etc.. It's going on right now in the "disappointed" thread.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Says the grown ass man hyped for a Spider-Man game.
Not hyped at all. But it's a good game, usually 7-8/10 to my taste.
Msamy
Member
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
but no one besides GAF thinks it looks bad...?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
We are stupid, so I will use few words and rely on pictures instead from Insomniac Games' GDC 2020 Conference discussing Ratchet & Clank Development process. I won't risk underestimating how high our level of ignorance can reach, so I will hold your hand in directing your attention to the dates listed on the bottom corner of each picture. Link below for the smart one's among us who wish to learn more.
Recalibrating Our Limits: Lighting on 'Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart'
The Insomniac Games lighting team was able to deliver on the promise of motion picture quality visuals and utilize lighting as a powerful artistic element. This talk will cover the setup, challenges, and lessons learned while paving the way for...
This my issue would be with why show that part of the game if it's not ready to be shown? They should have disrupted development and shown a 2 minute gameplay from a vertical slice that's more "ready".