I know exactly what I'm talking about regarding Dawntrail because as I said, I watched my spouse play it, and through 7.1. I also never said FFXIV was a failing game, that's you creating a straw man to argue with. I simply questioned your claim that there's a "consensus" that FFXIV's content is the best it's ever been. The numbers don't support what you're saying, at all. FFXIV is in no danger of shutting down, but it's fallen quite a bit from its heights and has to work to earn its player base back.
People rushing to make excuses are the reason FFXIV became the stagnant MMO it is today. Folks would try to provide constructive criticism over the years, but there's always a defense force ready to deflect the feedback away from the developers who need to hear it. You speak of circlejerks, and that is literally what r/ffxiv was for years which is why we're now having a discussion like this.
It doesn't matter how good the mechanics are in the latest raids when there are core issues with the combat design that need addressed. The homogenization of roles, the dumbing down of job identity by sanding off the edges (removal of Hissatsu: Kaiten from Samurai is a drop in the bucket of bad choices they've made), and the incredibly stupid 2-minute meta that they keep doubling down on have led to a game where player skill expression is minimal at best. It's really bad when the game's awful PVP has clearer job identity than the PVE side. Maybe they'll fix it in 8.0 as I'm still observing what is happening, but I don't have my hopes up.
BTW, I'm subscribed to Zepla and Preach, so... you might want to cut back on the assumptions.
Because the numbers aren't a reflection of the quality of the content itself...
By that logic then why did EW have so many players in spite of all the complaints about its content, much of it was directly addressed by the devs in DT?
Do you think that WoW's content nowadays is worse than it was back in the day quality wise? Even tho WoW had significantly more players back then.
A game having more or less players isn't some inherent indication of quality it's more complicated than that and FFXIV is a unique case too because it's a MMO that had an actual ending to a lot of people EW was the end.
Also remember that FFXIV is still the second most popular MMO nothing has even changed in that regard.
Every game peaks at some point and then it goes down to a more stable level that happens every single time there's no such thing as infinite growth and video games are largely a flavor of the month type of thing.
I am honestly just getting so tired of this exact same discourse every single time with every MMO it's not even a FFXIV or DT discourse this same song and dance about player numbers is a story as old as time when it comes to MMO's.
How am I rushing to make excuses too I am perfectly fine with discussing actual issues in the game, that doesn't mean that I can't also acknowledge when they do things right such as encounter design for instance.
I don't agree at all with your portrayal of the FFXIV sub as a circlejerk either but the issue is that people see disagreements about their negative opinions as '' toxic positivity ''... The forum and discussion subs have always been perpetually negative too.
You say that you've played since 1.0 then you should remember the Heavensward and Stormblood discourse too I honestly remember the Stormblood discourse around the MSQ being worse than with DT even, Heavensward's post MSQ got a ton of hate too especially with some characters not staying dead and the Warriors of Darkness being cringe etc.
The forums were a nightmare during Shadowbringers even same with Endwalker.
You keep moving the goal post tho, I was talking about content ( mostly encounter design ) and you're moving on to talk about Job identity ( and ofc you bring up Kaiten so regurgitated that it has become a meme ).
Even there it's a mix for instance they also updated Midare to enable more of them which I'd argue is part of Samurai's core identity, iaijutsu's is like one of the most iconic things about Samurai in pop culture.
The problem is too that no one can agree on this because everyone has different opinions on it and want different things, read discussions about it on the discussion sub and no one can agree what Job identity actually means and what the devs should do.
We've had so many different iterations of AST now for instance and everyone has their own personal favorite iteration there's no '' Job identity slide '' they can just push to solve the issue.
They've also stated that 8.0 is when Job reworks will come and have talked about things like skill trees/ talent points and improving Job identity they're aware of this issue and they always said it was going to be in 8.0 and that DT was going to be about improving encounter design which they have done successfully.
SMN comes to mind too, SMN plays significantly more like an actual Summoner now than it used to but that doesn't mean it's automatically better designed and that people enjoy it more there's complexity to this issue.
It's fine to criticize the 2 min meta in the end of the day tho it's also a result of player feedback over the years tho the problem is that people aren't very specific or even constructive with their feedback too often.
Personally my biggest issue is how much is tied to it I think we should get to push our fun buttons more often buffs being at 2 min is less of an issue imo.
You're the one who brought up Youtubers so then if you're subscribed to Zepla in particular and have watched her more recent streams of FFXIV you should know that she has been singings its praises recently.
Or that Mike is currently streaming the Savage tier and enjoying it and has been critical but overall liked most of DT?
Like what other Youtubers are you talking about here then?
Smaller ones who are trying to clickbait for a couple thousand views or people like LlamTodd who is ranting about wokeness and trying to get localizers fired?
And like I am sorry you don't know what you're talking about because you didn't play it you watched your spouse play literally the worst parts of the MSQ.
In no way does you watching your spouse play the MSQ up until 7.1 refute anything I am saying.
If you want to say fuck 7.0 and Wuk Lamat is cringe okay not exactly a controversial take but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
Whether sandbox or themepark, one thing I feel clearly is that the "gold rush" of post-WoW themeparks has been well and truly dead for about a decade.
It's sad but agreed honestly being a MMO player makes me feel old sometimes, MMO's are a very slow genre that requires a lot of investment but I think very few people nowadays are willing to really go through that.
