Support NeoGAF

[NeoIkaruGAF]

FF x DQ.
You're welcome, Square Enix. Now send in that cheque.

 

[StueyDuck]

I just never got around to finishing it. I have it preordered for the Switch 2. Hopefully being on a portable will make it easier to hold my attention, as I can play it while watching sports on the tv.

well you played like a 10th of the game

 

[StueyDuck]

Stop the childish anime writing.

That should be the first step

I'm really getting fed up with the overly quirky anime style girl, even in western games it feels like there's just one voice actress doing all female characters in many of the games.

It's really not endearing.

 

[Hudo]

I disagree. You can still do very good money with old-ass gaming concepts, if they are executed well. Look at GTA. That shit hasn't changed significantly since GTA 3, and it's one of the most valuable and profitable gaming IPs ever. Look at fucking Pokemon, the most valuable entertainment IP ever and the games, even though they aren't even "executed well" are selling gangbusters. Look at fucking Dragon Quest. That IP is the definition of "traditional" and it sells well.

The problem that Square Enix has is that the last couple of Final Fantasy games were mid at best. There is a reason why the most profitable thing is FF14, an MMO that has a fundamental game design from WoW people would nowadays call "old". The reason is that FF14 is the only game that executed that design well, aside from WoW. People like and buy well-designed games. And one of the DQ devs (maybe it was Horii himself?) already said that the reason why Square Enix (and others) have trouble capturing a new generation of gamers is mainly because each game takes like 10+ fucking years to make. It's a project management issue.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

The reason why most of SquareEnix output has sucked nowadays is because they modernized their IPs. Final Fantasy hasn't been good since Final Fantasy 12 (Don't @ FF14 at me) and they have said before they are making the next mainline Dragon Quest game more "darker" in tone whatever that mean

Turn based still sells look at Persona 5 and Clair Obsur Expedition 33

 

[FoxMcChief]

well you played like a 10th of the game

 

[Zephyranthes]

I'm reminded of a quote by John F Kennedy: "The first advice I'm going to give my successor is to watch the generals and avoid feeling that because they are military men that their opinions on military matters are worth a damn."

I feel the same often applies to video game executives and their opinions on video games.

 

[StueyDuck]

your trophies say that... and a switch 2 isn't gonna make anything different beside making everything look and run worse. I am unsure why the infinitely worser experience will somehow change anything.

 

[FoxMcChief]

your trophies say that... and a switch 2 isn't gonna make anything different beside making everything look and run worse. I am unsure why the infinitely worser experience will somehow change anything.

Because it won't have to compete with sports on the tv. New to portable gaming or something? My problem was never really with the simplistic gameplay, it's stupid amount of mini-games or the open areas with AC like towers. I just didn't feel compelled to play the game on the tv instead of other games, or watching tv.

The Switch 2 lets me easily play more games, when and wherever I want. I'm playing FF7:Remake on it right now while watching the White Sox getting beaten on tv.

 

[StueyDuck]

Because it won't have to compete with sports on the tv. New to portable gaming or something? My problem was never really with the simplistic gameplay, it's stupid amount of mini-games or the open areas with AC like towers. I just didn't feel compelled to play the game on the tv instead of other games, or watching tv.

The Switch 2 lets me easily play more games, when and wherever I want. I'm playing FF7:Remake on it right now while watching the White Sox getting beaten on tv.

Yes im new to portable gaming. Very smart.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Persona 5 and Dragon Quest XI are full of dumb anime cliches, angsty teenagers, and bloat, that didn't stop them from selling like hotcakes. You'd have to explain in detail where you think the disconnect is between these games and the FF franchise.

Personally, I think Final Fantasy has more of an identity problem. Every title is different so you don't know what to expect. The gameplay is standard action stuff you've played a million times already, and chances are another game did it better. The writing ranges from magnificent to grossly uninspired. But there's this weird disconnect I've found in the tone since they merged with Enix, from games X to the present. It's like the story is taking itself super-serious but then also being weirdly goofy. I don't know how to describe it, it feels out of place. Like Persona 5 is full of mature themes but also comedy, yet somehow manages to be tonally consistent.

No game better encapsulates "identity crisis" than the FFVII trilogy either. Sometimes it's pure, perfect nostalgia and other times I don't know what the fuck I'm playing. And I don't mean that in a positive way, either.

I agree about the identity crisis somewhat.

DQ and Persona know exactly what they're trying to be. They know what the audience wants and they bring it. Persona is shounen anime life sim with demons. DQ is traditional comfort food. (And make no mistake, neither of those series is as big or culturally significant as FF was in its prime)

Final Fantasy does (or did) have an identity too. It was the series that elevated video game storytelling and audio visual presentation to higher levels. The only AAA JRPG series.

But I still think the main problem is they just keep making flawed, subpar games. Like you say, there's something off. They don't know how to tell a story anymore. FF VII doesn't work when when the tone is all over the place, the writing is braindead stupid, everyone hams it up to extreme levels, and there's 8 hours of Ubisoft slop between every story beat.

The reason I bring up E33 is because it feels like the "Final Fantasy for grown ups" that I always imagined Squaresoft would be making someday. It proves that you can gain massive commercial and critical success by making such a game. There's a huge audience who's hungry for this sort of thing. You don't need to fill it with shit that you imagine Gen Z gamers want

 

[Melfice7]

Classic ff is better than modern ff so i guess the solution is to make it even more modern!

 

[evanft]

Final Fantasy has been an essentially irrelevant series for the better part of the last twenty years. The success of games like Persona or Expedition 33 proves that there's a market for traditional JRPGs. Square simply isn't capable of making something compelling in the genre. The best thing they can do is make HD-2D remakes of their old games rather than try to create anything new. I'd bet they could have done Chrono Trigger and FF9 for less than the marketing costs of FF16, and the ROI would have likely been better.

 

[Myths]

These threads just devolve into the aame armchair "look at X turn-based games selling like crazy", but if it were as profitable as forecasted then there's zero reason they wouldn't capitalize on it as a business. So it's not delusion, a lack of market insight or data analytics as much as it is just a fundamental design decision. The FF brand itself doesn't stop them using old tried and true in new IPs. If it's not about the budget or production, but rather something more simplistic than there's a lot of explaining to do as to why their side games and spinoffs that still very much use these older design decisions aren't moving as much as you expect.

Don't wait for it to be called FF to prove a point.

 

[yogaflame]

The word "modernize" is a red flag this days

 

[Mayar]

Square Enix Needs to Modernize Its IP

Option:- "We'll start making games that fans expect from us", they don't even consider.
And get Nomura away from the wheel already, there's something wrong with his head...
They have an example right in front of their faces - it's how well their Dragon Quest remakes were received, they don't even want to see it.
For some reason, no IP modernization was required for the DQ, Maybe because the games were well made and players finally got what they had been waiting for?

 

[squidilix]

Square Enix is a company of artists. But it's also a company riddled with bureaucracy. Many key figures from major games in the 90s and 2000s aren't working on anything today.

They used to be very active producers or artists, but now we only see them once every five years.

This needs to change; these people we once admired are now leeches on the company.

I wouldn't blame Division 3 in any way, as it's by far the most active of all.

In ten years, they've released five major expansions for FF14 after fixing the MMO project that cost 400 million, in addition to a very high-quality remaster (FF Tactics), and published Fantasian to re-establish communication with Hironobu Sakaguchi.

Finally, they did produce FF16, which was heavily criticized for its game design, but this project was problematic from the start due to the greed of the parent company, which was incapable of understanding what the public wants in a JRPG. Of course, Yoshi-P had to play the firefighter, saying that "the players want action."

But we all know it was the parent company that wanted this requirement.

The entire Division 3 team (FF6, FF9, FF11, FF12, Ivalice Stuff, FF14), the Asano team (Octopath Traveler, Bravelyt Default, Triange Strategy, DQ HD I, II, III HD). They are by far the most competent and responsive.

I wouldn't say the same for the other team that's swallowing up Square Enix's entire budget on a crappy three-part remake for more than 15 years and a Kingdom Hearts 4 that nobody wants.

 

[Liopleurodon]

Both Square-Enix, and their IPs will be fine.