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Pink Floyd fans. What's your take on The Final Cut?

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M

Mineshaft_Gap

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Tried listening to this again recently. It's just as impenetrable now as it was when I first tried listening years ago. On one hand I can now see it as being a serious artistic statement of some kind. Maybe not a musical/compositional statement. Still a statement none the less. Still others think this is the best Pink Floyd album. If you're one of those people could you please explain it to me? I'm trying. I really am.

I find the album dreadfully boring. I like Pink Floyd and I think Roger Waters is incredibly talented. I just think this album is mired in self importance. Roger Waters and Pete Townshend have a lot in common with regards to being pretentious twats whom I admire very much.

Secondly. Who are some brilliant songwriters who were amazing in a band setting but miserable failures in their solo careers?

Alex Chilton of Big Star
Roger Waters of Pink Floyd
 
i remember it being the last good pf album but its been a while

edit: gonna list to it again now

haha yeah this is pretty ridic

oh god i cant make it
 
GavinGT said:
Sucked hard.

It sounded like a collection of C-sides from The Wall.
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That's because that is what it was. I mean it was originally titled Spare Bricks, for fuck's sake. Terrible album, I don't count it among real Pink Floyd.
 
So does anyone really like it? Place it at the top of their list of favorite Floyd albums?

Would you care to elaborate on the moments in your life that would eventually lead up to having such a wrong opinion?
 
I rank other PF albums above this one, but I freaking love The Final Cut. It's one of the more emotional albums they have. And yeah, it's pretty much a Roger Waters solo album, but hey I like Roger Waters solo stuff.

One of the better PF moments is on The Gunner's Dream when he yells out "and hold onto the dream."

And Two Suns in the Sunset is a pretty amazing closer.
 
Roger Waters isn't much of a singer.. This was as much his solo album and Momentary Lapse of Reason was a Gilmore album, also the politics of the time in the lyrics make it sound very dated rather than transcendent like previous floyd albums.
 
Do those of you that actively dislike the album also dislike Waters' other solo stuff? Because I quite enjoy The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking and Amused to Death
 
I absolutely love The Final Cut. It's a bit over-dramatic, and Roger's voice does struggle at times, but it's a great album. Especially with "When The Tigers Broke Free" added. But I'm one of the biggest Roger Waters fanboys, so I'll defend anything he does. (Yeah, even parts of Radio KAOS).

But I can understand why people don't like it. Now Pros And Cons of Hitchhiking, that's a masterpiece of an album right there.
 
The big difference between Pete Townsend and Roger Waters is that Pete Townsend isn't a asshole.

Pete Townsend didn't try to marginalize the rest of the band. Sure, he sang perhaps more than he should have (though his voice is still a hell of a lot better than Waters's).

And while, he's a little pretentious, Pete Townsend was always far more grounded in everyday life.

His magnum opus for The Who was Quadrophenia. It dealt with growing up , going from a young adult to an adult, and in the process, coming to grips that adulthood isn't all that great.
He also covered the plight of the average working person in "Dirty Jobs" and "Bell Boy", as good as anyone ever has, IMHO.

In comparison, Roger Waters's big album for Pink Floyd was The Wall. It had two themes - how hard it was being a rock star - having to screw groupies because your wife won't talk to you, having to eat your meat before pudding*.

And secondly, something of an anti-war theme, which seems reasonable enough on the surface until you realize he's apparently talking about WW2. Uh, being anti-war wasn't really an option then, as Orwell famously pointed out. (But then, given Waters politics, I think he would have been happy with an Axis victory)

And ironically, even though it was almost entirely a Roger Water vehicle, the best song off of it was originally for a Gilmour solo album (Comfortably Numb)


* That's actually one rather common theme among rock songs of the late 70s, early 80s, that now seems to be missing - how awful school is.
 
DiscoJer said:
In comparison, Roger Waters's big album for Pink Floyd was The Wall. It had two themes - how hard it was being a rock star - having to screw groupies because your wife won't talk to you, having to eat your meat before pudding*.
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Come on, dude. That is a ridiculously childish take on The Wall. It's about isolation and depression and the madness that can creep in on a person who walls himself off from the world. So what if it uses the detached life of a rock star to express those themes? It does so brilliantly. It resonates with people not only because it sounds good, but because the depression and isolation expressed is something almost every person can relate to.
 
Satyamdas said:
Come on, dude. That is a ridiculously childish take on The Wall. It's about isolation and depression and the madness that can creep in on a person who walls himself off from the world. So what if it uses the detached life of a rock star to express those themes? It does so brilliantly. It resonates with people not only because it sounds good, but because the depression and isolation expressed is something almost every person can relate to.
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As fantastic as The Wall is, it is still not as good as Quadrophenia. I agree with DiscoJer on that.
 
If the discussion is whether Pete Townshend is better than Roger Waters I can't really say that you'll get much argument from me. The Who are probably my favorite band that isn't The Beatles.
 
Ducky_McGee said:
If the discussion is whether Pete Townshend is better than Roger Waters I can't really say that you'll get much argument from me. The Who are probably my favorite band that isn't The Beatles.
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internet-bro-fist.jpg
 
I really like Final Cut. It's a little preachy, but Post War Dream, The Gunner's Dream, Paranoid Eyes, The Fletcher Memorial Home, The Final Cut, and Two Suns in the Sunset are all really good tracks.

I decided to get Amused to Death (a Roger Water's Solo Album) on the basis that it was recommended if you liked Final Cut, and I wish I never listened to it.
 
desh said:
I really like Final Cut. It's a little preachy, but Post War Dream, The Gunner's Dream, Paranoid Eyes, The Fletcher Memorial Home, The Final Cut, and Two Suns in the Sunset are all really good tracks.

I decided to get Amused to Death (a Roger Water's Solo Album) on the basis that it was recommended if you liked Final Cut, and I wish I never listened to it.
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If you like Final Cut the correct Waters album is pros and cons of hitchhiking, which is very similar and quite good. Amused to death is more of a concept album and less about the music than the message. Pros and cons is just damned good music, and very final cuttish.
 
elrechazao said:
If you like Final Cut the correct Waters album is pros and cons of hitchhiking, which is very similar and quite good. Amused to death is more of a concept album and less about the music than the message. Pros and cons is just damned good music, and very final cuttish.
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Yeah, I'll need to try out Pros and Cons. The Wall and Final Cut are concept albums as well, so I guess I thought I would like Amused to Death because of this same reason. But none of the tracks grabbed me. I like stories in my music, but I still need to like the music, which I just couldn't get in to with Amused to Death.
 
PhoncipleBone said:
As fantastic as The Wall is, it is still not as good as Quadrophenia. I agree with DiscoJer on that.
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I'm not saying Quadrophenia isn't amazing or that one is better than the other (personally I prefer The Wall). I'm just saying that reducing The Wall to "lol whiny rockstar + fuck school" is either weak trolling or genuine ignorance.
 
I like Final Cut. It's not my favourite Floyd album, or even my favourite Waters album, but for some reason it's still my go-to "melancholy" album for when I'm a little down.
 
I dont like it, for me its as bad (or worse) than A Momentary Lapse of Reason

I find both albums very "non pink floyd"

but hey, thats just me
 
Box of Bunnies said:
I like Final Cut. It's not my favourite Floyd album, or even my favourite Waters album, but for some reason it's still my go-to "melancholy" album for when I'm a little down.
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That's the cool thing about the album. It really fills a space in their discography that none of their other albums really touched on. So, while it isn't really my favorite, it's still a great album. I do like it better than the first Gilmour fronted PF album, A Momentary Lapse of Release, but much much less than the 2nd Gilmour fronted PF album, The Division Bell (one of my favorites from PF)
 
Last great Pink Floyd album. People who are angry that it's more of a Roger Waters solo project tend to forget the fact that when Roger Waters left, the remaining albums consistently sucked hard.
 
Stet said:
Last great Pink Floyd album. People who are angry that it's more of a Roger Waters solo project tend to forget the fact that when Roger Waters left, the remaining albums consistently sucked hard.
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Totally agree, but now we'll have to listen to people talk about how momentary lapse of reason and division bell are true floyd, and other such bullshite.
 
Ducky_McGee said:
Obscured By Clouds vs. Final Cut

GOGOGO
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Obscured By Clouds by a country mile, brilliant album.


Come on, my friends, let's make for the hills, they say there's gold and I'm looking for thrills!


Also I'm listening to Animals right now, delicious.
 
elrechazao said:
Totally agree, but now we'll have to listen to people talk about how momentary lapse of reason and division bell are true floyd, and other such bullshite.
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They're not. The Wall was their last album in my mind.
 
NGAMER9 said:
I absolutely love The Final Cut. It's a bit over-dramatic, and Roger's voice does struggle at times, but it's a great album. Especially with "When The Tigers Broke Free" added. But I'm one of the biggest Roger Waters fanboys, so I'll defend anything he does. (Yeah, even parts of Radio KAOS)
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High Five! I agree 100%. I really like Radio KAOS and Amused to Death.

( But the best PF albums are still DSotM, WYWH, The Wall, Meddle, Animals )

I also love Quadrophenia, possibly my favorite The Who album. And The Lamb Dies Down on Broadway by Genesis (live version) is pretty damn fantastic as well.

Progressive Rock FTW!
 
Stet said:
Last great Pink Floyd album. People who are angry that it's more of a Roger Waters solo project tend to forget the fact that when Roger Waters left, the remaining albums consistently sucked hard.
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Hey now, The Division Bell was goddamned fantastic. High Hopes is easily one of their best songs in their entire discography.
 
I could never get into Barrett's Pink Floyd. Every time I try to listen to Piper I end up turning it off halfway through or just forgetting its even on.
 
jambo said:
Obscured By Clouds by a country mile, brilliant album.


Come on, my friends, let's make for the hills, they say there's gold and I'm looking for thrills!


Also I'm listening to Animals right now, delicious.
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Surprised other people love Obscured, too. Honestly it's my favorite and always thought that it was often overlooked, but glad to see it gets some recognition.
 
RDreamer said:
I could never get into Barrett's Pink Floyd. Every time I try to listen to Piper I end up turning it off halfway through or just forgetting its even on.
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Even now? You don't think that song I just linked is an incredible song?

It's just so unique. There is something amazingly child like about Syd's writing; they're almost like nursery rhymes - in a way. There is also something quite mystical and mysterious about his melodies. 'Enchanting' I guess is the word I'm after.

They're not really conventional songs, and I think that's what throws some people.

You can understand their artistic merit though right?

I think he was a genius personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEd3D8uGR8
 
Ducky_McGee said:
So does anyone really like it? Place it at the top of their list of favorite Floyd albums?

Would you care to elaborate on the moments in your life that would eventually lead up to having such a wrong opinion?
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I like it, even though as others have said it's pretty much a Roger Waters solo album. It wouldn't make it even into my top 3 Floyd albums though, let alone the number one spot. I'd probably rank it tied for 5th place with Meddle.
 
I love The Final Cut, and it's one of my favorites. I think it does suffer for a lack of Gilmour, but then, his PF projects suffer for a lack of Waters.

I have a live bootleg of Pros and Cons with Eric Clapton which is great!
 
leadbelly said:
Even now? You don't think that song I just linked is an incredible song?

It's just so unique. There is something amazingly child like about Syd's writing; they're almost like nursery rhymes - in a way. There is also something quite mystical and mysterious about his melodies. 'Enchanting' I guess is the word I'm after.

They're not really conventional songs, and I think that's what throws some people.

You can understand their artistic merit though right?

I think he was a genius personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiEd3D8uGR8
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Been a while since I tried to listen to it, honestly. I'm listening now, though.

I didn't really like the nursery rhyme-y lyrics. That was one of my bigger turn offs. And yeah it's pretty unique, but it's so different from why I like most Pink Floyd that when I'm in the mood for PF I can't listen to Piper, and when I'm in the mood for something like Piper it's usually The Beatles I pull out. I realize there's a difference in the two sounds, but the moods needed for both are kind of similar to me anyway.

As for them not being conventional songs... eh, I dunno. I'd say they're more conventional than some other PF songs. In fact it took me a while to really even listen through it because they're too close to conventional pop songs (I didn't get into the beatles or anything until later)

And yeah I can understand their artistic merit. I wouldn't insult the guy for what he made, and I can tell it's good stuff, I think I just forget about it mostly. That happens with a lot of lesser known but still awesome albums from bands I love. When I get in the mood for Opeth I don't usually listen to Orchid or Morningrise, even though when I do I think they're awesome. I just forget about them because their other work is so much "better" in a way. And same with my favorite band, Porcupine Tree. Up the Downstair and The Sky Moves Sideways are pretty painfully forgotten by me. A lot of the earlier Beatles stuff is like that too. It's great work, but I'm more likely to put in Revolver or Abbey Road or something.

And, yeah, I'm listening to the new remaster now and I'm liking it quite a bit. My other problem with the album, and this still stands even with this remaster, is that the album sounds like crap. I realize it's old, but I've listened to a lot of old sounding records that sound pretty amazing. Help!, Rubber Soul, and Revolver were all recorded before this and if I had to blind guess I'd almost put this at 8-10 years before those just based on sound quality. In the Court of the Crimson King came out just two years after Piper and it too sounds like it could have been recorded not too long ago, really.
 
RDreamer said:
In fact it took me a while to really even listen through it because they're too close to conventional pop songs (I didn't get into the beatles or anything until later).
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There are pop songs on pipers as that's what they needed to do. I think Pink Floyd's (without Syd) most unconventional songs are probably more conventional than Syd's most unconventional songs.


Scream Thy Last Scream for instance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPzPoSxha8

This is one of his more enchanting songs.
Chapter 24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQbzgNBcMVM
 
leadbelly said:
There are pop songs on pipers as that's what they needed to do. I think Pink Floyd's (without Syd) most unconventional songs are probably more conventional than Syd's most unconventional songs.


Scream Thy Last Scream for instance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPzPoSxha8

This is one of his more enchanting songs.
Chapter 24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQbzgNBcMVM
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I'd say Saucerful of Secrets is more unconventional to me. Absolutely amazing on Live at Pompeii, but still very unconventional.

Even so, being unconventional isn't what turns me off of Piper a bit. I mean I literally listen to noise albums sometimes, so conventional or not doesn't really bother me one bit at all.
 
RDreamer said:
I'd say Saucerful of Secrets is more unconventional to me. Absolutely amazing on Live at Pompeii, but still very unconventional.

Even so, being unconventional isn't what turns me off of Piper a bit. I mean I literally listen to noise albums sometimes, so conventional or not doesn't really bother me one bit at all.
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Piper was their first Album and Syd's last. His career was over before it started. Even so you got glimpses of what could have been.

Saucerful of Secrets was them trying to emulate Syd in some way.
 
leadbelly said:
Piper was their first Album and Syd's last. His career was over before it started. Even so you got glimpses of what could have been.
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He did make a couple of great solo albums after that (with David Gilmore's help). You sound like you might know this but I can't tell based on your wording.
 
leadbelly said:
Piper was their first Album and Syd's last. His career was over before it started. Even so you got glimpses of what could have been.

Saucerful of Secrets was them trying to emulate Syd in some way.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I would have liked full on Syd Pink Floyd over the long haul, especially if we're talking about a set of events that would have had them never pick up Gilmour. I think Syd's PF would have probably been good, but I absolutely doubt they'd have hit highs like DSOTM, WYWH, and Animals. Have to wonder if Waters' ego would have still pushed the rest of the band out in later years.

Now if we're talking Syd continuing on in the band and them still getting Gilmour for some reason, that would have been quite interesting indeed. I think we would have had some quite special stuff there. Then again, that could have really been a too many cooks sort of syndrome that later PF already had with Gilmour and Waters alone.
 
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