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thetrin said:
I think the issue with how VII handled death is that it's inconsistent with how the world operates. I don't have a problem with a character dying, but when you've had the ability to save characters with phoenix downs and Life the entire game, it rings a little false that THIS time, this is REAL death.
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Yeah, but the impact it has on you I've never really felt in any other game.
 
Lissar said:
If we're going for dramatic, emotional deaths, I think (to bring up another game in the series) Crisis Core did it better.
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I cried big manly tears at the end of Crisis Core. I regret nothing.

Worst part was, I was sitting in my office playing the game on my lunch break when I reached the ending. My coworkers were like "omg, did thetrin just find out some bad news?"

Stet said:
Well, if we're going to go that far, in terms of dramatic, emotional deaths, I think my grandmother's was pretty good.
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My grandmother's death was more emotional and dramatic than yours.
 
Stet said:
*repeatedly tries to use SOFT on Porom and Palom while sobbing*
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It was at this point in the game where I got fed up with everything and turned it off. I also deleted my save. Fuck FF4, my most hated game.
thetrin said:
Should be. I haven't looked. I highly recommend it. It's the be all end all of Strat RPGs.
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marrec said:
They are the two best written RPGs in my opinion, but if you haven't played Tactics Ogre then you need to play Tactics Ogre.
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Duly noted.
 
Xenogears starts out like it's going to have a good story, but it all falls apart.

Couldn't make it very far into Xenosaga at all. I just couldn't hang with it. The writing was too awful.
 
Lissar said:
Dramatic, yes, but mature? There was death in VI too, though it was far more understated. Also, I found the characters (I'm talking about the core characters here, not the weirdos on the edge) much more believable in VI. I can't even argue about the villains, when it comes to maturity, since neither of them are.
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Well the water supply was poisoned at one point, so there were a lot of deaths. To me, I thought the story in VII was deeper and more complicated.

Xenogears goes even further. It goes much deeper into psychology, philosophy and spirituality. These are all subjects VII brushes upon too.
 
Tactics Ogre delivers a shit sandwich to your doorstep every morning, and makes you eat it. Every time you kill someone, you find out they had noble motives, they were actually a good person, and you are the real monster.

Then you find out that you have to keep going because your people deserve freedom. Then everyone and everything you've ever loved is taken from you, and you just have to fucking say "Shit man, I've got a job to do. No time to be a human being with feelings" and you fucking DEAL.

That is Tactics Ogre.
 
thetrin said:
I cried big manly tears at the end of Crisis Core. I regret nothing.

Worst part was, I was sitting in my office playing the game on my lunch break when I reached the ending. My coworkers were like "omg, did thetrin just find out some bad news?"
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The amazing thing about that scene is that (assuming you played the first game) you know going in that he's going to die. But that didn't take away any of the emotion from that scene. I was especially impressed with the use of gameplay in that scene, where all the soldiers are attacking you but you can hardly lift your sword to do anything. It really gives you a sense of helplessness.
 
Lissar said:
If we're going for dramatic, emotional deaths, I think (to bring up another game in the series) Crisis Core did it better.
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Agreed. Even though you knew it was coming from before you ever start the game, Zack's death actually comes off as emotional because you've spent so long with the character and know how his mind works. He's literally fighting to his last breath.

By contrast, Aerith was just sort of...there. Cloud was your main character, Tifa was already introduced as the love interest beforehand, Aertih talked about her boyfriend minutes after you meet her. I'm not going to say the death has no impact, but it's that shallow video game-style impact where the developers assume the players are supposed to feel something because the characters state they are feeling things.
 
thetrin said:
Tactics Ogre delivers a shit sandwich to your doorstep every morning, and makes you eat it. Every time you kill someone, you find out they had noble motives, they were actually a good person, and you are the real monster.

Then you find out that you have to keep going because your people deserve freedom. Then everyone and everything you've ever loved is taken from you, and you just have to fucking say "Shit man, I've got a job to do. No time to be a human being with feelings" and you fucking DEAL.

That is Tactics Ogre.
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And the original game made you work your ass off just to have the opportunity to eat a shit sandwich.
 
Lissar said:
The amazing thing about that scene is that (assuming you played the first game) you know going in that he's going to die. But that didn't take away any of the emotion from that scene. I was especially impressed with the use of gameplay in that scene, where all the soldiers are attacking you but you can hardly lift your sword to do anything. It really gives you a sense of helplessness.
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LOVED that. There's this great relationship established between Cloud and Zack, too. Not to mention that when you see the flash forward in the ending, and realize Cloud is severely shell shocked, you get it.

It's the one FFVII related game that I think expanded the fiction in a useful way.
 
Alrus said:
In FF VI, one of the character actually consider suicide and actually does it. That was a pretty intense scene for me.
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Me and a friend are replaying FF6, she's at that point now. Even the parts related to Celes (with Locke) in the world of beauty were sad but well done. So emotional. Don't need pages of dialogue or dynamic camera angle cutscenes to convey a good story.
 
marrec said:
And the original game made you work your ass off just to have the opportunity to eat a shit sandwich.
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And you fucking LIKE IT.

Tactics Ogre exists in a brutal universe.
 
Shadow Hearts 2 (especially in combination with SH1) really makes you feel the full bearing of "loss," even though the tone of the game is generally comedic.

Fragile is just like "depressing depressing depressing now hit this thing with a stick depressing depressing" in game form.
 
leadbelly said:
Well the water supply was poisoned at one point, so there were a lot of deaths. To me, I thought the story in VII was deeper and more complicated.

Xenogears goes even further. It goes much deeper into psychology, philosophy and spirituality. These are all subjects VII brushes upon too.
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The poisoning was shocking, (ah hell, I'll put this in spoilers just in case)
but not as big of an impact as Rachel, Terra's parents and a whole society of espers, Celes trying to help a man she cared for and (assuming you fail) her attempt at suicide...
 
thetrin said:
LOVED that. There's this great relationship established between Cloud and Zack, too. Not to mention that when you see the flash forward in the ending, and realize Cloud is severely shell shocked, you get it.

It's the one FFVII related game that I think expanded the fiction in a useful way.
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Crisis Core makes me remember FFVII fondly, which I didn't think was possible again.

It tells you information you already know but ties you to those events and characters emotionally so they have more relevance.

Cloud climbing on the hill facing Midgar in FFVII and Cloud climbing on the hill facing Midgar in Crisis Core are on totally different levels and not just because of graphics.

Doesn't hurt that the final fight is set to this amazing piece of music.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Shadow Hearts 2 (especially in combination with SH1) really makes you feel the full bearing of "loss," even though the tone of the game is generally comedic.

Fragile is just like "depressing depressing depressing now hit this thing with a stick depressing depressing" in game form.
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I love Shadow Hearts 2! I love it when a game (or any media) can properly mix humor and drama. It's the best kind.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Crisis Core makes me remember FFVII fondly, which I didn't think was possible again.

It tells you information you already know but ties you to those events and characters emotionally so they have more relevance.

Cloud climbing on the hill facing Midgar in FFVII and Cloud climbing on the hill facing Midgar in Crisis Core are on totally different levels and not just because of graphics.

Doesn't hurt that the final fight is set to this amazing piece of music.
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Completely agree. Crisis Core succeeded in adding gravitas to scenes from FF7 that you knew were supposed to be sad, but never really felt for.

Crisis Core is pretty much the best FFVII related creation ever. Brilliant game.
 
Rinoa said:
Me and a friend are replaying FF6, she's at that point now. Even the parts related to Celes (with Locke) in the world of beauty were sad but well done. So emotional. Don't need pages of dialogue or dynamic camera angle cutscenes to convey a good story.
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THIS, so many great moments.
 
I really need to finish Crisis Core... I got burnt by trying to do all the side missions, I should just finish the main quest.

And man, that song is amazing!
 
Hawkian said:
I agree with that. It made me appreciate FF7 more, and was most impressively just a generally fun and enjoyable gameplay experience.
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That's what I felt every FF7 related creation should have done. Augmented FF7. Only CC did that. AC made me hate myself, BC was okay, but didn't really augment FF7, and DC was just awful.
 
Stet said:
Why is this not on GoG or Steam?!
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God, I don't know, I hadn't even thought about it. I have it on my hard drive and have moved it between three different PCs. I don't even know where the disc is anymore.

It's sort of unbelievable it's not on Steam. Is it compatibility?

It's pretty low-res by default.

thetrin said:
That's what I felt every FF7 related creation should have done. Augmented FF7. Only CC did that. AC made me hate myself, BC was okay, but didn't really augment FF7, and DC was just awful.
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Dude, I'm sorry, I don't even know what those games are abbreviated. DC makes me vaguely think of some action game with Vincent... can't remember what it was called but I read a review and.. yeah
 
Hawkian said:
Dude, I'm sorry, I don't even know what those games are abbreviated. DC makes me vaguely think of some action game with Vincent... can't remember what it was called but I read a review and.. yeah
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AC = Advent Children
BC = Before Crisis (cell phone game)
DC = Dirge of Cerberus
 
Being emotionally manipulated by a game isn't something to be ashamed of, either.

It's part of the game design for games that want to pursue it. Any game can just say "Oh the little girl who loves life/the beautiful young girl with everything to live for was killed!" and get you on the hook.

It takes more to get you to care about the guy with the big sword.
 
Lissar said:
The poisoning was shocking, (ah hell, I'll put this in spoilers just in case)
but not as big of an impact as Rachel, Terra's parents and a whole society of espers, Celes trying to help a man she cared for and (assuming you fail) her attempt at suicide...
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Yeah. I suppose in a way, it doesn't really help playing VII before playing VI. I never really connected with the deaths in VI the same way.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Being emotionally manipulated by a game isn't something to be ashamed of, either.

It's part of the game design for games that want to pursue it. Any game can just say "Oh the little girl who loves life/the beautiful young girl with everything to live for was killed!" and get you on the hook.

It takes more to get you to care about the guy with the big sword.
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Which is why I thought CC's ending was so powerful. I don't even particularly like Cloud. The game made me really feel for him and Zack.

MANLY TEARS
 
Dirge of Cerberus is an abomination. I can't even remember the story elements because the gameplay elements were so bad. I still feel ashamed I paid full price for it considering how quickly it went down to $10.
 
Lissar said:
Dirge of Cerberus is an abomination. I can't even remember the story elements because the gameplay elements were so bad. I still feel ashamed I paid full price for it considering how quickly it went down to $10.
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I feel ashamed for you.
 
thetrin said:
AC = Advent Children
BC = Before Crisis (cell phone game)
DC = Dirge of Cerberus
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I enjoyed Advent Children a lot as a testament to the capabilities of CG animation. It didn't do anything for the story at all.

Lissar said:
Dirge of Cerberus is an abomination. I can't even remember the story elements because the gameplay elements were so bad. I still feel ashamed I paid full price for it considering how quickly it went down to $10.
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Ouch.
 
leadbelly said:
Yeah. I suppose in a way, it doesn't really help playing VII before playing VI. I never really connected with the deaths in VI the same way.
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I can understand that. I mean, even though IV has a lot of emotional deaths I've never really been able to get into that game as I played it many years after it came out (I think I played it around the time IX came out actually.)
 
Lissar said:
Dirge of Cerberus is an abomination. I can't even remember the story elements because the gameplay elements were so bad. I still feel ashamed I paid full price for it considering how quickly it went down to $10.
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Little girl with psychic powers that Vincent is in love with

DO YOU REMEMBER NOW
 
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