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Guild Wars 2 Press Beta [Prepurchase Is Live]

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Might not have anything to do with Guild Wars 2, sadly. Nintendo is going to make some announcements in the morning too.

Don't toy with me!!!

Have the devs commented on why Asura/Sylvari werent available in the last press weekend?

No, though if I had to wager I guess I'd say that they wanted to keep people somewhat together given how few of people they had. Either that or they wanted to focus on testing these 3 races or the Asura/Sylvari stuff isn't quite ready. Could be all 3 really.

I'd cry if they let people with GWAMM or 50 on their HoM, only because I've been slacking on getting to 30 as of the last week or so.
 
Seriously though, G4TV doesn't seem like the kind of place that would hype up something for Guild Wars fans.

They have an entire segment called MMO Report run by Casey something or other, they have coverage of GW2 at conventions all the time. Even gone to ANet's office to get footage and do interviews.
 
Climbing stuff was one of the things I missed most when i spent time with guild wars. Glad to see this game will have exploration like that.

It would have been nice to see knock back skills used to punt some enemies off the ruins.

These all would have worked:

Counterattack
Kick
Point Blank Shot
Staggering Throw
Tail Lash Tail Lash (pet skill)
 
Whoa, that looks fun/difficult/a little glitchy. Glad it's in there though. Also I hope some of those building textures aren't maxed, they look really low res.

They're not, it's well known that Curse got horrible performance when they maxed the game out and had to drop it down to low. Recording footage seemed to not do so well for some people, many press said once they turned off Fraps FPS was fine.

Look at this beautiful footage that's probably encoded at max settings:

It's in German, but seems like a solid overview even if I don't understand much.

http://www.gamestar.de/index.cfm?pid=1589&pk=64931
 
They're not, it's well known that Curse got horrible performance when they maxed the game out and had to drop it down to low. Recording footage seemed to not do so well for some people, many press said once they turned off Fraps FPS was fine.

Look at this beautiful footage that's probably encoded at max settings:

It's in German, but seems like a solid overview even if I don't understand much.

http://www.gamestar.de/index.cfm?pid=1589&pk=64931
Okay, good to know. I know the game looks way better than that jumping video, I was just curious.
Edit: Hot damn at that vid! Got witcher 2 vibes from that first location.
 
I wanted to order this for the pre-order bonuses...but it's still not on Future Shop's website. I have a code for a free game on there that expires in a month, I hope it'll be there by then...
 
Someone looking through a vendor showing tons of PvP armor, weapons, and upgrade components. Upgrade components consist of Runes (Armor), Sigils( Weapons), and Jewels (Accessories).

Runes allow you to create your own set bonuses on any gear that you have as every piece of armor has 1 mod slot. You can even pull mods out of gear that you get through a salvage kit. Stuff like

Superior Rune of Dwayna

(1) +25 Healing
(2) +320% Regeneration duration
(3) +50 Healing
(4) 5% chance to gain regeneration for 10 seconds when hit. (cooldown: 30s)
(5) +90 Healing
(6) When you use a heal skill you and all nearby gain regeneration for 10 seconds. {cooldown:10s)

Sigils modify your weapon with effects like

- 30% chance to Chill your target for 2 sec on hit
- Swapping to this weapon causes your next attack to be a 100% critical attack
- You are healed every time you kill a foe, etc.

Jewels are more like straight forward stats from what we can see, stuff like

+25 precision
+17 condition damage
+15 power

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrvV0rKGKw
 
Commenting on the trinity worries, I found these pics at Something Awful.

Guild Wars 1 and everyone else's way:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AEsbZ.png[/IMG]

Guild Wars 2's way:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/eqqDx.png[/IMG]

As said, since there's no real healing there's only mitigation in combat, and falling back. If you fall back, someone else is going to have to cover you, either using knockbacks, snares, or temporary armor/shield skills.

When it comes to mitigation, however, one of the best things I read about (and somehow didn't notice them mentioning before) was Cross Profession Combos.
Cross Profession Combos – CPCs have been fleshed out quite a lot since we initially heard about them. You'll be able to create these combos with other professions, people playing the same profession as you, and even by yourself. To start off a combo you'll need an Initiator which is like a “field” in the world that has been created by a spell. They range from elemental effects—such as fire, ice, and lightning—to other effects like poison, light, dark, and smoke. All fields persist in the world for a time and can be taken advantage of by any number of finishers. Next up you need a Finisher which is a category of spell types. All finishers are actions of some kind, including firing projectiles, leaping, and blasting an area. Every finisher can only be modified once, to avoid confusion and stacking. Some examples of combos that can be created are: Use Ricochet through a Firewall to get a bouncing axe that has a chance to burn the targets it hits. Leaping Death Blossom through a Symbol of Faith will remove conditions from allies near your target. Stomp inside a Smoke Screen to cloak nearby allies. This is just a small sampling of what you can do with combos, and we leave it to you to find them all and combo to your heart’s delight.

Other examples of CPCs are a Ranger putting down a Healing Spring, then a Thief uses Unload through the Water Field. These healing projectiles grants an area-of-effect heal to any allies that are attacking the thief's target. A Guardian could put down a Symbol of Switfness on top of an Engineer’s Big Ole Bomb, when the bomb explodes it not only deals damage but Blinds nearby enemies. A Necromancer could put down a Well of Darkness which blinds enemies inside of it, an Elementalist could drop Churning Earth which cripples enemies inside of it. When Churning Earth ends it combines with Well of Darkness and deals additional AoE damage.

There's even a UI element for creating combos that helps you take advantage of them as well as let your allies know they can set one up. When two players create a combo there's a floating notification shown to both players and tells you which skills are involved. Skills also display their field type or finisher type in their description, to help players experiment. Almost every weapon has some sort of initiator or finisher which leaves two players ample opportunities to find and capitalize on combos, regardless of profession or other skill choices.

Reading that, I could imagine moments where someone drops a Healing Spring on an enemy, and then a bunch of people do stomps back and forth to give each other small quick bursts of health back.

An explorer's dream come true...skill challenge jump puzzle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oYfi4cVbYM&feature=player_embedded#!

One of my favorite things about that video is the last enemy at the very end. He was smart enough to run near the wall to make sure you didn't try a knockback on him.

Mike B from Gamebreaker doing some PvP and from what I've read he's not bad(I'm slowly buffering as I write this):

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/mesmer-pvp-battle-of-kyhlo/
And this was a much better watch than I expected.
 
All your posts have a conflicting foundation of what constitutes builds/roles vs. skill set versatility. An extra set of attack options can not compare to exponential options in creating builds. Most of those builds did indeed cater towards roles but there is no discussion here. The options in GW1 were and will be higher in count.

I'm not going to hammer this point but let me run through a list of monk builds in GW1 for fun. I want to test my memory a bit.
  1. Offering of Blood Mo/N
  2. Air of Enchantment Smiter Mo/E
  3. Restore Condition Prot Mo/x
  4. Spell-breaker Infuse Mo/x
  5. Light of Deliverance AoE Mo/x
  6. Life Bonder Mo/E
  7. Shield of Deflection Prot Mo/x
  8. World of Healing Mo/x
  9. Zealous Benediction Prot Mo/x
  10. Healing Hands Mo/x
  11. Healers Boon Mo/x
  12. Blessed Light Healer Mo/x
  13. Aura of Faith Healer Mo/x
  14. Energy Drain Mo/Me
  15. Mantra of Recall Mo/Me

All of these builds were paired with uniquely delivered skills per expansions. They all played differently and were all meta. Sure, they went over years time. However, LoD, SB/Infuse, MoR, HH, ZB, AoE, BIP, etc... monks were very real. And I've only listed popular PvP builds. The options were immense and an absolute ton of skills were utilized. This does not include the choices in secondary skills and weapon set switching.

Which brings things back to GW2. GW2 is moving away from this system. That's just the direction they are choosing. And it involves less complexity and options. To really argue that you are now being given all these new options because you can weapon swap a skill set in along with traits is really nutty. You can praise the system they are delivering but lets not go off the deep end.

The average casting rate per minute is way above GW1 due to spammable skills. And the majority of the weapon bar has been shown to be about mix-ups. Your utility/elite also can have really huge cool-downs. So this will be a game where you are constantly hitting 1 and periodically mixing up attacks along with utility. The addition of dodging, movement, underwater, adds complexity/choice to the solitary build choices. Many will favor this however you are losing depth regarding those build choices.

All of this comes down to what you like, what you prefer. So let's try to can the GW1/GW2 crusades which make no sense.

Great post. I think GW2 is going to be a great game for what it is (even though some people are way overhyping a lot of things) and I'll definitely be buying it, I am disappointed that they moved away from what made GW1 fun in the first place. That being build wars. I did notice in pretty much every beta vid so far that combat consists of spamming 1 90% of the time while the rest of your skills are on cool down. This makes GW2 combat a lot more dumbed down. Some people say that because you can jump and evade it makes up for it but personally I don't think so.

GW1 had a lot more choice and actually required the player to think about his builds while GW2 more or less dictates how you will be playing every single class.
 
The press are not indicative of proper play, period. There's literally about 3-4 videos of people who know what they're doing, everyone else has absolutely no damn idea.

Great Ele PvP vid (wait this is Izzy from GStar and THIS is how you play the game):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zDRLKp9kAU

I don't see how being a good player will change the fact that most of the skills in your bar will be on a 5-10+ second cd while you are left spamming 1 for most of the fit. I really hate how they think completely removing resource management in favor of shitloads of CD results in anything other than a dumbed down game. Be honest and admit that you don't want the players being punished for anything and that they want the game to appeal to grandmas everywhere. The fact that it's so hard to die in this game is proof of that, I think.
 
I don't see how being a good player will change the fact that most of the skills in your bar will be on a 5-10+ second cd while you are left spamming 1 for most of the fit. I really hate how they think completely removing resource management in favor of shitloads of CD results in anything other than a dumbed down game. Be honest and admit that you don't want the players being punished for anything and that they want the game to appeal to grandmas everywhere. The fact that it's so hard to die in this game is proof of that, I think.

I'm with you on resource management man. I don't understand how so many MMO's don't even try to use it. Resource management not only adds to balance, but allows players choices to make with respect of how to maximise it. It's also nicer to manage the resource than the CDs of 8 spells.
 
I don't see how being a good player will change the fact that most of the skills in your bar will be on a 5-10+ second cd while you are left spamming 1 for most of the fit. I really hate how they think completely removing resource management in favor of shitloads of CD results in anything other than a dumbed down game. Be honest and admit that you don't want the players being punished for anything and that they want the game to appeal to grandmas everywhere. The fact that it's so hard to die in this game is proof of that, I think.

That's what switching weapons is for and who said it was hard to die?
 
I don't see how being a good player will change the fact that most of the skills in your bar will be on a 5-10+ second cd while you are left spamming 1 for most of the fit. I really hate how they think completely removing resource management in favor of shitloads of CD results in anything other than a dumbed down game. Be honest and admit that you don't want the players being punished for anything and that they want the game to appeal to grandmas everywhere. The fact that it's so hard to die in this game is proof of that, I think.

Dying is quite easy, I've seen people get one shot by DE bosses, a group of mobs killing people in 5 sec flat, people chain dying about 3 times in 10 sec cause they're not paying attention, and so on and so forth. If you're not swapping weapons to make the most out of your skills then you're simply doing it wrong. Those people you see who just hit skills when they're off cooldown or stand there and spam 1 have absolutely no idea how to play, they have no idea what their skills do, how to properly use them in conjunction with one another, they don't dodge, they don't use profession mechanics, they don't use cross profession combos.
 
New Total Biscuit vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjDJXZIwU5k

Wow @ TBs footage, DAT GRAPHICS & DAT FPS

He wasn't kidding when he said people don't know how to record. His footage is encoded and takes no FPS hit while Fraps was killing people's FPS.

Another TB character creation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVNT...xt=C3cbd268UDOEgsToPDskJTkEFndEHP8h9NP3QwvLCW

TB said they have 2.5TB of raw 720p footage, he said he'll start getting more content up next Monday.

Excellent. Even before he put out the character intro videos, his releases were what I was looking forward to the most. Good video and good commentary = hooray.

Just a shame that it all had to happen at a busy time period for him personally but like everything in life the good things are never at the forefront.
 
Oh and the Guild UI for anyone who missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60U8tSaGSKY&feature=related

I'm extremely impressed by just how much stuff there is for Guilds to do.
That looks pretty amazing, all the possible upgrades, gear, trinkets, and buffs you get from actively representing and contributing to a guild looks very well done.
I can imagine rolling deep with your guild would be very beneficial in WvW for example.

That said, will there be a GAF guild on launch day?
 
I don't see how cooldown isn't a resource. It's a quickly renewable resource that you have to manage so you aren't sitting there using your weakest ability. For a lot of classes, you need to manage those other skills so that your weakest ability can even do a respectable amount of damage, or even hit. For some classes that weak ability is only there to constantly apply a status while you focus on your other skills to do your damage or perform your strategy. Looking at just the Elementalist video Jira just linked, how often do you see him using his 1 skill?

I hate people going on as if mana is the only possible resource in the world to be used in an RPG. What's the point of a resource mechanic in the first place? To make it so that you can't constantly spam skills without consequence. Any skill you'd use to replenish mana can just be rewritten to replenish cooldowns, and these very same skills still exist in Guild Wars 2. If you end up in PvP with all your skills on cooldown, you will die.

Anything that leaves you in a state where you can't defend yourself is a "resource" to manage in an action game of any type, from combo action games, to fighters, to RPGs. The point isn't the flavor or feel; that's just extra. The point is the balance of consequence.
 
The point is that Guild Wars 1 used both Energy and cooldowns as resources for a player to manage, and the interplay between the two resulted in far more variety and depth than either could achieve on its own - and that if they really had to choose only one between the two, Energy was by far the more intricate and interesting.
 
The point is that Guild Wars 1 used both Energy and cooldowns as resources for a player to manage, and the interplay between the two resulted in far more variety and depth than either could achieve on its own - and that if they really had to choose only one between the two, Energy was by far the more intricate and interesting.

I disagree on the depth. Either it meant that you had to hold off on skills (same as cooldowns), are forced to bring an energy management skill (takes up space), or you'd try to be clever and use energy destruction on enemies (which is a lot like giving them cooldowns).

You can call it a gross simplification, but it's no more so than simplifying the depth of any action game. Mana does not equal depth. It's just a balance tool often used as a time or resource sink.

And then the professions in GW 2 are given mechanics to act as their second resource to interplay with their skills. Go manage that.
 
Mana gives you wonderful creativity and strategy, cooldowns don't.

Like, mana denial on opponents, as a control option.
Or mana hiding, or weapon swap with high-energy weapons (+15 mana/-1 mana reg) to increase your spiking potential.

AND you had cooldowns.

Just cooldowns can't be a valid alternative.
 
I'd like to think of it as a game of chess. You make a move and if it was the wrong decision you face the consequences of that action.
 
I disagree on the depth. Either it meant that you had to hold off on skills (same as cooldowns), are forced to bring an energy management skill (takes up space), or you'd try to be clever and use energy destruction on enemies (which is a lot like giving them cooldowns).

You can call it a gross simplification, but it's no more so than simplifying the depth of any action game. Mana does not equal depth. It's just a balance tool often used as a time or resource sink.

And then the professions in GW 2 are given mechanics to act as their second resource to interplay with their skills.

So you can't see how stealing, gaining over time when meeting certain conditions, interrupting and stopping energy gain is more interesting than "whoops 3 of my skills are on a 45 sec cool down and the rest anywhere from 5 to 10+ and I can't do anything about it. Time to spam 1"?

All the options and situations that meter management created in GW1 is the very definition of depth. It doesn't matter if you disagree. Meter management adds a lot more to the game than simply using CDs. This is a fact.

Dying is quite easy, I've seen people get one shot by DE bosses, a group of mobs killing people in 5 sec flat, people chain dying about 3 times in 10 sec cause they're not paying attention, and so on and so forth. If you're not swapping weapons to make the most out of your skills then you're simply doing it wrong. Those people you see who just hit skills when they're off cooldown or stand there and spam 1 have absolutely no idea how to play, they have no idea what their skills do, how to properly use them in conjunction with one another, they don't dodge, they don't use profession mechanics, they don't use cross profession combos.

Dying isn't easy when once your HP reaches zero you go into a downed state where you can still attack while your teammates resurrect you and failing that you can resurrect yourself. Add to that the fact that once you are downed the players who downed you have to channel a spell to really "kill" you. I'd say all that makes it pretty fucking hard compared to pretty much any serious competitive game on the market. And Anet themselves said they wanted GW2 to be taken seriously as an Esports.
 
So in other words you want a battle system that is unrelenting and punishing? Where were you when UO and EQ were the frontier?
 
So you can't see how stealing, gaining over time when meeting certain conditions, interrupting and stopping energy gain is more interesting than "whoops 3 of my skills are on a 45 sec cool down and the rest anywhere from 5 to 10+ and I can't do anything about it. Time to spam 1"?

All the options and situations that meter management created in GW1 is the very definition of depth. It doesn't matter if you disagree. Meter management adds a lot more to the game than simply using CDs. This is a fact.

I can't see how you can't just rewrite each of those with "a skill that lengthens the time to your opponent's next action or cooldown while speeding up your own action or cooldowns", or "interrupt and have no skills recharge for X amount of time."

You're focusing on all the offensive things you can do regarding mana, while only looking at the self-costs regarding cooldowns. You see cooldowns as something that only affect you, instead of something used to affect both sides, which is how a major resource in competitive multiplayer game works. And in any game, all of those tactical and strategic actions have multiple ways of being represented; focusing on mana just feels more like focusing on the flavor.

And as I later edited, I just realized that that's half the reason we have all of these different profession mechanics; to give you that second resource you desire, while not making it a second shared resource across all characters.
 
But you do die. From what has been said if you don't defeat or help defeat an enemy then you will simply die, and the channeled heal to rise back up can be interrupted itself. It seems that it's just like every other MMO out there with an additional kick to the act of death instead of falling down in to a corpse.

Unless I am being mistaken on what I've surmised previously.
 
I disagree on the depth. Either it meant that you had to hold off on skills (same as cooldowns), are forced to bring an energy management skill (takes up space), or you'd try to be clever and use energy destruction on enemies (which is a lot like giving them cooldowns).

No.

Energy, as implemented in Guild Wars, was a universal resource, which cooldowns are not. This made it easy to quantify, which cooldowns are not - and the fact that it could be quantified meant that not only was 'Energy management' an entirely new avenue of gameplay, but so was 'Energy denial' - both of which are no longer even possible to explore in Guild Wars 2.
(It's also kind of disingenuous to paint Energy Management as 'taking up space'. Lots of energy management actually synergized quite well with other skills - Channeling as a cover enchantment, as probably the easiest example.)

It also allowed a player the option to expend all of that resource in a short burst, either by blowing through their skill bar (cooldowns alone supports this), or by repeatedly using a skill with a short cooldown but high energy cost (cooldowns alone do not support this). Powerful skills with short cooldowns were one of the most interesting aspects of the original Guild Wars. So were powerful skills with low Energy costs. Both were only possible because of the dual mechanics of Energy and cooldown. Skills in Guild Wars 2 must be balanced based only on their relative strength versus the amount of time it takes before they can be used again. Skill balance in Guild Wars 1 had three dimensions; now it has two. There is, quite literally, less depth available to the designers than in the first game.

Energy also allowed for the existence of tactics like the focus swap, alternating between equipment that gave +5 Energy and equipment that gave +15 Energy, but -1 Energy Regeneration - which gave rise to 'hiding' Energy, which was one of the coolest emergent mechanics in Guild Wars. That is now gone.



It's not hard to figure out why they wanted to remove Energy from the game. Energy was a thorn in the side of the game's designers and balancers right from launch, with nO (and others) running builds that tripled up on "Fear Me!" while half the casters took Energy Drain. It certainly makes their job easier if they can just remove such a vital mechanic from the game entirely. But that doesn't mean that they should have, and it's undeniably removed many of the mechanics, explicit and emergent, that gave Guild Wars 1 its identity compared with other RPGs. Maybe they replaced it with something that makes up for some or all of those losses, and maybe they didn't - but they are losses to the depth of the gameplay, and they've really got their work cut out for them if they're trying to replace that depth with other mechanics.
 
I don't think it can be argued that cool-down management with weapon swapping is as intricate as mana/cool-down on a single 8 bar. However, ANET simply does not want a player to be waiting. That's ironic with such heavy cool-downs like the 120sec elites but it's accurate. With the weapon swapping and fast 1 recharges, you will constantly be hitting inputs. There's no blackout or disable. A difference maker could be conditions such as Mesmer confusion, which stacks. Bad players might spam through it. And a Mesmer with a proper trait system will have heavy stacks basically resulting in a suicide. Spamming 1 at that point will only give Mesmer lolz of the past. Dazing is another counter. A ranger concussion shot is especially nasty here as it can also stun.

Here's the kicker though. Condition removal is so universal due to the absence of monks. It is self-managed the same as healing. Even a warrior has multiple skills to utilize to remove conditions. So instead of 112131 you go 5112131 and resume the fight. Guardians fucking troll conditions as another example. You might as well kill yourself and throw rocks instead of condition spamming them.

And spamming 1 will be a very viable use. It is fast, efficient, and powerful DPS. It also allows you to tune out your bar management noise to control your 3d movement. As someone who tries to master the ins and outs of complex 3d games like DMC3, I know exactly what noise removal means. Nobody is a prodigy and will be able to maintain all these areas without slip. The best players will likely be the best at "switching hats." That means when your tactics switch, it is seamless.

So for those hating on the 1 spammers, I will predict a few surprised faces when you try to NOT do the same. Managing 3d space at such a level of dodging, spacing, watching enemies, spell effects, etc... along with constant weapon switching / cool-downs management is serious shit. So when you change hats into 3d space management, you are going to mentally drop some baggage. Over maybe months time you might be able to combined these areas more effectively. But I doubt there are going to be day 1 prodigies in this thread of those who are frustrated with what they see. Just sayin.

I'm going to study runes, sigils, and all that shit today. I still forsee only passive buffing or gimmicks. But I'm still quite interested.
I'd like to think of it as a game of chess. You make a move and if it was the wrong decision you face the consequences of that action.
Nah, chess doesn't allow make-ups.
 
I can't see how you can't just rewrite each of those with "a skill that lengthens the time to your opponent's next action or cooldown while speeding up your own action or cooldowns", or "interrupt and have no skills recharge for X amount of time."

You're focusing on all the offensive things you can do regarding mana, while only looking at the self-costs regarding cooldowns. You see cooldowns as something that only affect you, instead of something used to affect both sides, which is how a major resource in competitive multiplayer game works. And in any game, all of those tactical and strategic actions have multiple ways of being represented; focusing on mana just feels more like focusing on the flavor.

And as I later edited, I just realized that that's half the reason we have all of these different profession mechanics; to give you that second resource you desire, while not making it a second shared resource across all characters.

I'm focusing on the self costs of cool downs because there aren't many skills in GW2 that behaves in the way meter management skills in GW1 did. Have you actually looked at any of the skills in the game and their effects or are you arguing out of presumptions? The entire reason that the Mesmer is centered around crappy illusions in GW2 rather than what it was famous for in the previous game is that they are completely phasing out meter management in the game.

You can't play with your opponent's cool downs in the way you could play with your opponent's as well as your own meter in GW1. This is why GW2 lost some of the depth that made build wars so interesting. Sure you can swap weapons in GW2 but so what if most of your skills will still be the same as every other Mesmer on the server and they've removed things like meter management? GW2 will undoubtably have much, much less build variety than GW1 and that's why I am nowhere near as excited for its PvP as I was for GW1's.
 
You have to channel a spell to kill them, the other team have to channel a spell to rez them.

There are no longer any rez spells.

You do pitiful damage from the ground. It only makes a difference if the person you were attacking was at dangerously low health.

Rallying is essentially a moral boost, although I dislike it a little in the case of close fights. It's more interesting in team fights, though, as well as the other two skills you get while downed.

While still up and about, it is incredibly hard to heal more than 50% of your hp within seconds unless you're out of combat, and from the videos I've seen it feels like that's been lowered to more 20-40% on average. Regeneration occurs at a much slower rate compared to what could be done in GW1.

There's still a death penalty, just not in your stats. Instead, every time you're downed you're much closer to being dead dead, to the point where it'd be easier for the enemy team to just attack you from afar while you're on the ground and can't dodge. Just like in GW1, it disappears over time, but there's no other way to make it disappear other than waiting it out.

What else am I forgetting?
 
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