The Walking Dead - Season 2 - Sundays on AMC

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Funky Papa said:
Check the spoiler thread if you want your mind blown.
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Ooo... o-oh my...

dligD.gif
 
It's so fucking obvious Shane wanted to die. He had no intentions of going back to that farm.

Lori speech tipped him over the edge. He knew then without a shadow of a doubt there was no chance between them.
He didn't even try to hide the fact that he let Randall out. Evidence everywhere. Didn't even fucking try to think up a decent story.
Lowering his weapon for no reason and then egging Rick on to kill him.

The only thing Shane wanted in the world was Lori and the life that Rick has. He knew he couldn't have it and decided he wanted no part of this world any longer.

Peace, Shane. You were the only one who truly knew what had to be done about Randall. And you gave your life to do it. You will be sorely missed. :(

Welp, time to hop off the Shane Express and jump on dat Darryl Bandwagon.
 
Kylehimself said:
Good episode as usual. Pumped for next weeks!

I'd be inclined to disagree, particularly because Rick had asked Andrea to watch Shane. I think Rick is aware of Shane's problems, just maybe not of the extent of them. In fact, I think the relationship was a mix of both your argument and the one you replied too.
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Well, that's the thing. Even after Shane clearly tried to decapitate Rick, he still wasn't entirely convinced Shane had completely turned. Yes, he asked Andrea to watch over him, but that was for the safety of the camp, not necessarily for himself (note that it's when Rick *leaves* camp that he asks her to watch him, not to watch Rick's back when he's there).

Obviously after all this time Rick has become more and more wary of Shane as events go on, but the fact is he was TOO forgiving in general... and with Shane even moreso.
 
andycapps said:
Yes, but I'll reiterate that the spoilers are major spoilers. It's obviously in the spoiler thread, but people shouldn't expect something minor. Major plot points and characters being spoiled. Since I read the comic, it made me very, very happy. Hoping the spoilers are true.
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Are we talking plot points and character deaths for the season finale in that thread? Or even stuff further as in Season 3?
 
Represent. said:
Are we talking plot points and character deaths for the season finale in that thread? Or even stuff further as in Season 3?
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Yes on both accounts. The spoiler thread is the place to talk about all the really big stuff that has yet to happen. It's a minefield, but spoiler tags are also in use.
 
Forceatowulf said:
It's so fucking obvious Shane wanted to die. He had no intentions of going back to that farm.

Lori speech tipped him over the edge. He knew then without a shadow of a doubt there was no chance between them.
He didn't even try to hide the fact that he let Randall out. Evidence everywhere. Didn't even fucking try to think up a decent story.
Lowering his weapon for no reason and then egging Rick on to kill him.

The only thing Shane wanted in the world was Lori and the life that Rick has. He knew he couldn't have it and decided he wanted no part of this world any longer.

Peace, Shane. You were the only one who truly knew what had to be done about Randall. And you gave your life to do it. You will be sorely missed. :(

Welp, time to hop off the Shane Express and jump on dat Darryl Bandwagon.
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Well said I agree.
 
walbertsmith said:
Those are YOUR projections, not the show's. Rick's whole MO (in both the show and the comics) was trying to make the whole group happy, not to be some sort of dominant leader. In fact, IIRC, they agreed to be co-leaders of the group (or some sort of unspoken understanding of such) in the first season. The crux of my whole argument was refuting your claim that Rick and Shane's relationship had a basis in "pulling rank" before the apocalypse. Again, neither person mentioned rank at all *anywhere*.
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I don't think they are just MY projections.

It didn't have to be mentioned. It was evident in the pilot that Shane and Rick were a Batman/Robin duo and Shane damn sure wasn't Batman. Rick was the sheriff and Shane was the deputy, not the other way around. I can't speak to the comics (i haven't read them) so they have no bearing on my thoughts about the two. I am going 100% on the show.

It was unspoken rank. Shane wanted what Rick already had, prior to the outbreak. This is evidenced by how often he would second guess Rick's decision making and how badly he wanted Lori and Carl to love him more than Rick.

He wanted Rick's life.


Again, *your* projections, not the show's. Shane was Rick's best friend and Rick didn't want to believe what Shane became until the very last moment. Shane threw a WRENCH AT RICK'S HEAD and Rick still wanted to reconcile with Shane. In fact, it wasn't until Shane pointed a gun at him that Rick finally figured it out. You say that Rick was aware of his flaws? Nope, in fact the opposite was true.. Rick was blind to his flaws until the very end because of his loyalty to him as his best friend. You've completely misinterpreted their relationship.
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Again, not just MY projections.

Rick knew who Shane was but was surprised to see that he would betray him so many times (banging his wife, leaving him for dead, trying to kill him in the yard w/ all the zombies) in this new world. In the beginning, it was shown that they had a best friend relationship. He even leaned on Shane when he got back to the group. Shane was the one that got threatened and acted out when he returned.

Rick gave him several chances to reconcile those trespasses (even saved his life in the yard with all the zombies, ffs--he could have left him for dead) but ultimately realized that this Shane wasn't the one he knew back in the world anymore. This Shane was consumed with his obsession to replace Rick altogether, in all things.

While I agree that taking over a friend's family is low, the situation was entirely believable. Rick was dead for weeks, and it's not such an unusual circumstance that it hasn't happened in other, non-zombie situations. It's not farfetched in the slightest for people to get closer in high intensity, traumatic situations. Do people fall in love with their best friend's SO? All the time, in fact. Did Shane do this when Rick was alive? No, of course not. So is he a terrible person for falling in love with someone? No, of course not.

Now, are his actions after Rick came back deplorable and emotionally unstable? Yes, absolutely. But were any of his actions predicated on any sort of sheriff/deputy relationship with Rick before the zombies arrived? Not in the slightest.
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To answer all of this, I say that it seemed to me that Shane was an opportunist that wanted everything that Rick had (family, leadership, everything). When Rick was dead, he pounced on the chance to be what he wasn't able to be in the normal world and while it was happening, he was on cloud nine.

Once Rick returned, the conflict was 100% Shane's. His emotions made for an uneasy existence. He never garnered favor with Hershel because he driven by his own demons and not every decision he made was for the benefit of the group.

He became vengeful and petulant when his "friend" returned. He wasn't happy that his so called friend had survived. Think about that. His situation was fucked over in his mind (not like, "Holy shit, my bro is alive!") when his "friend" returned.

He wanted Rick outta of the way so he could be the alpha again. In his final moments on-screen, his true cowardice showed through. For all the tough talk, he wasn't able to best Rick and make the hard decision. He couldn't kill that which he grew to despise. In the end, Rick showed why Shane wasn't the true leader; in this world or the normal one.
 
Shane = the scorned silverback that gets thrown out of the pack once the real boss returns from shitting in the woods.

You all know this is true.
 
Funky Papa said:
Shane = the scorned silverback that gets thrown out of the pack once the real boss returns from shitting in the woods.

You all know this is true.
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Hell I'd be scorned too, if I were replaced by a guy who got WAY more people killed than I did in my tenure and people still looked at me like I was somehow less fit for the job.

I would definitely start to get a little salty about that bullshit...
 
Represent. said:
Oh christ, I was planning on joining the thread after the S2 finale but nevermind lol
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Well, the spoilers only mention what is in the finale. They don't give away Season 3. I don't know how to explain it without giving stuff away that we'll find out next week if they're true, but what allegedly happens definitely impacts season 3.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I don't think they are just MY projections.

It didn't have to be mentioned. It was evident in the pilot that Shane and Rick were a Batman/Robin duo and Shane damn sure wasn't Batman. Rick was the sheriff and Shane was the deputy, not the other way around. I can't speak to the comics (i haven't read them) so they have no bearing on my thoughts about the two. I am going 100% on the show.

It was unspoken rank. Shane wanted what Rick already had, prior to the outbreak. This is evidenced by how often he would second guess Rick's decision making and how badly he wanted Lori and Carl to love him more than Rick.

He wanted Rick's life.


Again, not just MY projections.

Rick knew who Shane was but was surprised to see that he would betray him so many times (banging his wife, leaving him for dead, trying to kill him in the yard w/ all the zombies) in this new world. In the beginning, it was shown that they had a best friend relationship. He even leaned on Shane when he got back to the group. Shane was the one that got threatened and acted out when he returned.

Rick gave him several chances to reconcile those trespasses (even saved his life in the yard with all the zombies, ffs--he could have left him for dead) but ultimately realized that this Shane wasn't the one he knew back in the world anymore. This Shane was consumed with his obsession to replace Rick altogether, in all things.

To answer all of this, I say that it seemed to me that Shane was an opportunist that wanted everything that Rick had (family, leadership, everything). When Rick was dead, he pounced on the chance to be what he wasn't able to be in the normal world and while it was happening, he was on cloud nine.

Once Rick returned, the conflict was 100% Shane's. His emotions made for an uneasy existence. He never garnered favor with Hershel because he driven by his own demons and not every decision he made was for the benefit of the group.

He became vengeful and petulant when his "friend" returned. He wasn't happy that his so called friend had survived. Think about that. His situation was fucked over in his mind (not like, "Holy shit, my bro is alive!") when his "friend" returned.

He wanted Rick outta of the way so he could be the alpha again. In his final moments on-screen, his true cowardice showed through. For all the tough talk, he wasn't able to best Rick and make the hard decision. He couldn't kill that which he grew to despise. In the end, Rick showed why Shane wasn't the true leader; in this world or the normal one.
Click to expand...

Are you reading any of what I'm writing? There is absolutely zero evidence of Rick pulling rank on Shane in the show. Not once. In 9,000 posts on this season of Walking Dead, absolutely ZERO posts have commentary on Rick pulling rank... because he never did. Try it... search "rank" in this thread, and the only times it's used are when people are ranking this show next to other shows. In fact, if you even do a google search, one of the top results is THIS thread, meaning no one out there in the interwebs had the same impression. So yes, those are YOUR projections.

All of your commentary about Shane wanting Rick's life... Yes, I know that. I agree with you, and I described as such in my posts. Like I have constantly said, Rick's return was the catalyst to Shane's demise... and hey, we both agree there. However, this debate started because of a comment you made that implied that Rick pulled rank... which he never did.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Hell I'd be scorned too, if I were replaced by a guy who got WAY more people killed than I did in my tenure and people still looked at me like I was somehow less fit for the job.

I would definitely start to get a little salty about that bullshit...
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Shane suggested killing Hershel if he didn't come around.

Rick had to talk him down.

How the fuck would that have made things better?
 
walbertsmith said:
Are you reading any of what I'm writing? There is absolutely zero evidence of Rick pulling rank on Shane in the show. Not once. In 9,000 posts on this season of Walking Dead, absolutely ZERO posts have commentary on Rick pulling rank... because he never did. Try it... search "rank" in this thread, and the only times it's used are when people are ranking this show next to other shows. In fact, if you even do a google search, one of the top results is THIS thread, meaning no one out there in the interwebs had the same impression. So yes, those are YOUR projections.
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So in that episode when they left the yard (with the zombies) Rick didn't lay down how things were gonna be going forward (that he needed to get with the program), much to Shane's chagrin?

I see that as "pulling rank".

Was that another 'The Walking Dead' show on AMC?
 
oh it finally feels like we are leaving this fucking farm!

Finally something is happening in this damn show.
Awesome episode and I think the next episode will be crazy good.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Shane suggested killing Hershel if he didn't come around.

Rick had to talk him down.

How the fuck would that have made things better?
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Look, Shane isn't perfect. But this idea that Rick is this great leader is absurd.

People forget they were doing well as a group when Shane was running shit. Then Rick shows up and.. well, the bodies haven't stopped dropping, have they?

Oh and they'd still be looking for a ghost girl in the fucking woods getting their people nearly killed if it wasn't for Shane. Gotta love that vastly superior Rick leadership!
 
ryutaro's mama said:
So in that episode when they left the yard (with the zombies) Rick didn't lay down how things were gonna be going forward (that he needed to get with the program), much to Shane's chagrin?

I see that as "pulling rank".

Was that another 'The Walking Dead' show on AMC?
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Still not reading, I see. Your original original comment was about how Rick was the sheriff, and Shane was the deputy before the apocalypse. THAT was the rank I spoke of, not after Rick arrived at the group. By the end of season 1, Rick was firmly in leadership of the group but he never used his previous rank as sheriff as leverage in his dealings with Shane.

Here's the comment that launched all this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35952328&postcount=9002

Your comment implied that Shane was just keeping the seat warm until Rick came along, which is entirely untrue. For one, because Rick was dead. And two, because the group was already reasonably stable (as you could be in a zombie apocalypse). Glenn had done multiple forays into the city, they were doing civilized things like laundry, and they had been at the campsite for weeks. That is evidence of stable leadership.

When leadership started to turn to Rick, it's because of the deterioration of Shane's emotional state... NOT because Rick pulled rank as sheriff.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Hell I'd be scorned too, if I were replaced by a guy who got WAY more people killed than I did in my tenure and people still looked at me like I was somehow less fit for the job.

I would definitely start to get a little salty about that bullshit...
Click to expand...

Shane let the camp get run over. Rick brought guns back with which to kill zombies. Shane didn't follow Rick when he lured the zombies away from Sophia.... Shane shot Otis. Shane burst open the barn, causing Hershel to drink and then the groups run into the scavengers, and the despair of blondie and her attempted suicide. Shane alienated Dale, causing him to go on a walk. Shane broke Randall's neck. Shane was banging away on a metal windmill.....

Who did Rick get killed?
 
walbertsmith said:
Still not reading, I see. Your original original comment was about how Rick was the sheriff, and Shane was the deputy before the apocalypse. THAT was the rank I spoke of, not after Rick arrived at the group. By the end of season 1, Rick was firmly in leadership of the group but he never used his previous rank as sheriff as leverage in his dealings with Shane.

Here's the comment that launched all this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35952328&postcount=9002

Your comment implied that Shane was just keeping the seat warm until Rick came along, which is entirely untrue. For one, because Rick was dead. And two, because the group was already reasonably stable (as you could be in a zombie apocalypse). Glenn had done multiple forays into the city, they were doing civilized things like laundry, and they had been at the campsite for weeks. That is evidence of stable leadership.

When leadership started to turn to Rick, it's because of the deterioration of Shane's emotional state... NOT because Rick pulled rank as sheriff.
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Ahh...ok.

I was using the sheriff/deputy dynamic to illustrate that Shane was the beta in that relationship, not to say that Rick actually said, "Hey guys, I'm the sheriff! I'm back now!"

Sorry if that didn't come through.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Oh and they'd still be looking for a ghost girl in the fucking woods getting their people nearly killed if it wasn't for Shane. Gotta love that vastly superior Rick leadership!
Click to expand...

I'm Team Shane as anyone, but if Otis wasn't dead, they'd know ghost girl was in the barn.

Remember, he's the one that captured all the walkers stuck in the swamp/mud/whatever.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Look, Shane isn't perfect. But this idea that Rick is this great leader is absurd.

People forget they were doing well as a group when Shane was running shit. Then Rick shows up and.. well, the bodies haven't stopped dropping, have they?

Oh and they'd still be looking for a ghost girl in the fucking woods getting their people nearly killed if it wasn't for Shane. Gotta love that vastly superior Rick leadership!
Click to expand...

Rick isn't perfect either but he approaches situations better than Shane, hands down.

Shane killed Otis so he could be the hero everyone would love.

Shane finally did kill Randall...and it almost ended up getting Glen and Daryl killed.

Shane put all that macho shit into Carl's head...and it got Dale killed.

And that backfired too.

I can go on about Shane O Mac.

:P
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Ahh...ok.

I was using the sheriff/deputy dynamic to illustrate that Shane was the beta in that relationship, not to say that Rick actually said, "Hey guys, I'm the sheriff! I'm back now!"

Sorry if that didn't come through.
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Fair enough, but you REALLY didn't make it clear when you said their pre apocalypse jobs still matter:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35952557&postcount=9007

I still have issues with saying Shane was "the beta" in the relationship just because Rick never assertively established he was the alpha either.... but that's all semantics at this point.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Look, Shane isn't perfect. But this idea that Rick is this great leader is absurd.

People forget they were doing well as a group when Shane was running shit. Then Rick shows up and.. well, the bodies haven't stopped dropping, have they?

Oh and they'd still be looking for a ghost girl in the fucking woods getting their people nearly killed if it wasn't for Shane. Gotta love that vastly superior Rick leadership!
Click to expand...
Yeah, but if it wasn't for Rick Shane would just be dropping people left, right and centre if they didn't agree with him.


-Pyromaniac- said:
Last 2 episodes Daryl has been Rick's right hand man and I love that!
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As do I.
 
When Shane was the group "leader", they had a psychotic racist doing as he pleased and a husband roughing up his wife, iirc. It wasn't all peaches and cream...
 
Oldschoolgamer said:
When Shane was the group "leader", they had a psychotic racist doing as he pleased and a husband roughing up his wife, iirc. It wasn't all peaches and cream...
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That's more an indictment of those people, not Shane. He didn't force anyone to be racist nor did he force dude to beat up on Carol.

And despite Merle's clear douchebaggery, like Darryl he was probably extremely useful in other ways.

And to be clear, I'm not a Shane apologist. He was a despicable character and deserved to die... but retroactively applying all these undeserved negative traits to him is inaccurate at best.
 
SamuraiX- said:
http://i.imgur.com/JxfEal.jpg[IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/LwPVcl.jpg[IMG]

If anyone can find a 1920x1080 image of the shots above, I'd wallpaper the shit outta them. Please and thank you. :D[/QUOTE]

probably the best you can do without a blu-ray source

[url=http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=wd1wducq.png][img]http://www.abload.de/thumb/wd1wducq.png[/url]
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Funky Papa said:
I don't mind as long as the writers wake the fuck up and give them some real development. Tyreese is a great character with a hefty background whereas T-Dawg is the token black guy.
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Agreed, though I think we're talking about future characters here, which means we're into spoiler territory. He'd really have to develop a personality. And it seems like he's missing some of the traits of that character.
No daughter with him, for one. Though they could scrap that.
 
Finally watched it.

1) can we finally non-spoiler talk about the fact that they got up without being bit or are we still putting our fingers in our ears and going "la la la la la didn't notice that" until someone straight up points it out, in detail, on the show? Like Hershel with a fucking microscope or reading some obscure biblical texts or whatever and goes "AH HA...when the moon is in full alignment to the sun the dead will walk the earth blah blah blah".

I think we'd all be in agreement if this was an original show, not based on material. We're so spoiler wary that we're scared to commit to something. haha

2) Shane's death was done great I think: much better than in the comics, but still subtly similar. When they showed Carl in the house I was a bit worried that was basically a message to comic readers that "carl will not be a part of this". But I should have known that with his binocs it was basically confirming it.

Of course, it does ruin one of the cooler moments later
where Rick would go back to Shane's grave, dig him up, and shoot him in the head.

Funky Papa said:
I don't mind as long as the writers wake the fuck up and give them some real development. Tyreese is a great character with a hefty background whereas T-Dawg is the token black guy.
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Character not in TV show:
Nah, Tyreese is pretty intelligent and strong, intimidating. TDog is slow, weaker and bumbling. In fact, now that I think about it, he's the kind of guy who would have been killed pretty soon in the series if he wasn't the Token.

I really want them to bring in some actual strong non-whites in this next season and Tyreese would be one of them. You know the other.
 
If you're going to talk about the comics, use the other thread or at the very least put some spoiler tags on it. Nothing too spoilerish so far, but it's a slippery slope. These things rapidly digress into comic book spoiler talk, which we should avoid here. Thanks for your help.
 
Speaking of TDog, I finally read that interview with him from last week or this week. I was wondering if anyone but the internet were going to respond to him not being on the show much this season:

We haven't seen much of T-Dog lately. Where's he been? What's next for him? [Ed. note: This interview took place before last week's shocking episode.]

I had a conversation with Glen Mazarra, our showrunner, we had a long chat in his office, and he basically apologized for not expounding on T-Dog's character, but I explained to him, I'm just happy to a part of this show. I mean, this is the biggest show in basic cable history! This show's The Walking Dead, based on the comic book The Walking Dead and all the characters from the comic book. I'm the only one who's not in the comic, and I understand that—you got to develop those characters first. There's a following for those characters. So Glen says we're gonna work our way through T-Dog—if T-Dog survives, of course—we'll find out more about his background, where he comes from, if he has a family, that type of stuff. He's on a spiritual journey, trying to figure out if he can make it through this post-apocalyptic world with his humanity intact. We'll see if that happens.
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Seems a pretty humble guy.
 
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