Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Heavy said:
The rest of my post still exists, if I was wrong about that.
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Well, the point wasn't that Javik was lying, it was that he was wrong. There's a difference between the two.

And it's true that Shepard is breaking the cycle . . . which is why it's dumb that at the end, the choice he is ordered to make are all based off the assumption that the cycle is inevitable.
 
MisterNugNug said:
Let me get this straight, you've got the leader of the united alien races lying on the ground in front of you. Instead of killing the MOTHERFUCKER, you opt to indoctrinate him/her?
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Um... Yeah.

What better way to win the war than to have the leader of the enemy on your side?
 
What a bittersweet ending. On one hand, I knew that Shepard had to die in order to have a more meaningful ending, but on the other, I'm disappointed at how fucking ambiguous it was (I got the one where Joker emerges as a dude with robotic eyes).

I think everything was all good until the very end. The last section you can walk around and talk to your comrades before going to war was fantastic, and it reminded me of the long journey up to that point. However it pisses me that, other than the quick conversations you had with them, you don't know anything else. I would have liked a more epic ending, with videos showing every member of your squad helping out in the war and stuff.

Now talking more about the game, it was fantastic. My favorite is still 2, because it had such an amazing atmosphere and sense of mystery. The combat and level design in 3 is the best though. I really, really, really love the combat. Pausing the game, switching powers, telling my squadmates what to do--- so good.

It was a nice journey, but I'm sad that it ended.
 
Dresden said:
Well, the point wasn't that Javik was lying, it was that he was wrong. There's a difference between the two.

And it's true that Shepard is breaking the cycle . . . which is why it's dumb that at the end, the choice he is ordered to make are all based off the assumption that the cycle is inevitable.
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The bolded is a really good observation... something to think about.
 
Dresden said:
Well, the point wasn't that Javik was lying, it was that he was wrong. There's a difference between the two.

And it's true that Shepard is breaking the cycle . . . which is why it's dumb that at the end, the choice he is ordered to make are all based off the assumption that the cycle is inevitable.
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The Reapers WOULD say something like that....

INDOCTRINATION.

It's inevitable, just give up. Lose hope.
 
SteeloDMZ said:
What a bittersweet ending. On one hand, I knew that Shepard had to die in order to have a more meaningful ending, but on the other, I'm disappointed at how fucking ambiguous it was (I got the one where Joker emerges as a dude with robotic eyes).

I think everything was all good until the very end. The last section you can walk around and talk to your comrades before going to war was fantastic, and it reminded me of the long journey up to that point. However it pisses me that, other than the quick conversations you had with them, you don't know anything else. I would have liked a more epic ending, with videos showing every member of your squad helping out in the war and stuff.

Now talking more about the game, it was fantastic. My favorite is still 2, because it had such an amazing atmosphere and sense of mystery. The combat and level design in 3 is the best though. I really, really, really love the combat. Pausing the game, switching powers, telling my squadmates what to do--- so good.

It was a nice journey, but I'm sad that it ended.
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Dont be sad, the journey will continue Shepard has become a leg end.
 
Heavy said:
So to summarize, you're saying we should believe he's lying about what he knows of the past cycles and history because we got the Geth and Quarians to stop fighting, and also EDI's character. The major point of the game was breaking that cycle, as you've alluded to. We already know that this cycle with Shepard has gotten the closest to any prior to stopping the Reapers. This isn't a late-game revelation. By the time the Crucible was finished there were mentions of this... how Shepard & Co. have gotten the farthest of any cycle prior -- all well before the ending. Which should lead us to believe that something is different this time around... that is the whole point of the game.
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It's not a matter of believing he's telling the truth or not. It's a matter of calling him out on his bullshit and how the whole Reaper thing is no longer applicable. That his high and mighty 'bu bu bu the cycle' crap is meaningless because you've proven his bullshit wrong. You cannot call him out on this, nor is there any plot thread that leads this way.
 
Rebel Leader said:
I would take him EVERYWHERE
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Make sure you talk to him after every mission. You will learn a lot about the past cycle, as well as some funny tidbits about the current advanced species.

I've also heard he schools Liara on Thessia, but I took either Garrus or EDI on my first run. I'm going to correct that mistake on my current playthrough.
 
Sojgat said:
I'm still not really clear on why the Reapers do anything. They are just evil, why just kill a guy when you can corrupt him, make him juicy fruit the universe in his flavour of choice.
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Yeah sorry, I don't mean to be an ass, its just the fucking ending (s).

Its just aggravating and stupefying. Reading the threads over on BSN, it's crazy to see how the Indoctrination theory is gaining so much traction. Because what it implies is that, ALL of us, we don't have real endings to our stories. We don't have closure for our Shepards. So now we all wait in limbo, if the theory is to be believed. We've got fans clinging to random tweets about the future. We have no announcements or ETA for anything really. I mean say they do release some DLC; its obviously not going to be free. We have to fork over more for our endings.

Honestly, I hope someone writes an academic article about all of this. It can be a case study for how not to fuck up the final act of a series, gaming, television, book, etc.
 
Dresden said:
Well, the point wasn't that Javik was lying, it was that he was wrong. There's a difference between the two.

And it's true that Shepard is breaking the cycle . . . which is why it's dumb that at the end, the choice he is ordered to make are all based off the assumption that the cycle is inevitable.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it more, yeah wow, that's huge. So the whole game we are lead to believe that this cycle is different, that the cycle can be broken, that's the whole point of it all... why we're playing the game. All the things we've influenced and changed; synthetics and organic life getting along (i.e., Quarians and Geth) point to this being the case. And then the ending comes along and we're lead to believe that wasn't the case and it was inevitable all along. I'm not the type that's unable to admit when I'm wrong or when someone has a great point...you're right.
 
Dresden said:
Why eat his corpse when you can make his corpse eat the corpses of his friends for you?
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How would that work if he's a corpse? Make him a husk? They are so generic that they will probably not recognize him anyway. Making a collector? Takes forever man, the others will have time to die from starvation on generic jungle planet #223.
 
Heavy said:
Exactly. Just because he was wrong about Legion, something he barely knew, doesn't mean all his vast prior knowledge of past and present races was bs. He mentions/implies how synthetics will always rise up and destroy their creators a couple of times. There was no reason not to believe him... certainly not because he didn't trust our geth crew member.
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That's the point though, whether what he says is true or not, you have evidence that contradicts his views. And I'm sure that is something Shepard would want to bring up when she's deciding the fate of the galaxy.
 
EatChildren said:
It's not a matter of believing he's telling the truth or not. It's a matter of calling him out on his bullshit and how the whole Reaper thing is no longer applicable. That his high and mighty 'bu bu bu the cycle' crap is meaningless because you've proven his bullshit wrong. You cannot call him out on this, nor is there any plot thread that leads this way.
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It's like being charged with murder and your lawyer doesn't present evidence that makes you obviously innocent.
 
Heavy said:
So to summarize, you're saying we should believe he's lying about what he knows of the past cycles and history because we got the Geth and Quarians to stop fighting, and also EDI's character. The major point of the game was breaking that cycle, as you've alluded to. We already know that this cycle with Shepard has gotten the closest to any prior to stopping the Reapers. This isn't a late-game revelation. By the time the Crucible was finished there were mentions of this... how Shepard & Co. have gotten the farthest of any cycle prior -- all well before the ending. Which should lead us to believe that something is different this time around... that is the whole point of the game.
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No we should disregards his opinion because all he has known is war as part of a culture whose core tenants involve subjugating the "lesser races." He isn't lying but his perspective is clearly skewed. If all of a sudden we discovered that a Roman Legatus(think general) during the Hannibals rebellions had been asleep and just awoken him would you really trust his opinion on things?
 
Heavy said:
Thinking about it more, yeah wow, that's huge. So the whole game we are lead to believe that this cycle is different, that the cycle can be broken, that's the whole point of it all... why we're playing the game. And then the ending comes along and we're lead to believe that wasn't the case and it was inevitable all along. I'm not the type that's unable to admit when I'm wrong or when someone has a great point...you're right.
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You fool. You've just been indoctrinated.
 
Heavy said:
Thinking about it more, yeah wow, that's huge. So the whole game we are lead to believe that this cycle is different, that the cycle can be broken, that's the whole point of it all... why we're playing the game. And then the ending comes along and we're lead to believe that wasn't the case and it was inevitable all along. I'm not the type that's unable to admit when I'm wrong or when someone has a great point...you're right.
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The entire basis for your argument at this point is "because they said so", making any debate with you over this matter completely meaningless.
 
Heavy said:
The rest of my post still exists, if I was wrong about that.
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Except the rest of your post is still meaningless because nothing is different in terms of Synthetics Vs Organics because while Shepard can unite the Geth and Quarians and broker piece between organics and synthetics, you can just as easily wipe out all the Geth and tell them to go screw themselves and yet you still go on to defeat the Reapers and meet the Catalyst no problem, you can still even get the Merge ending.

There is no cycle to break, other than that of the Reapers coming in an wiping out all advanced organic life. Befriending and proving that Organics and Synthetics can live in harmony has absolutely no bearing on this goal and its success or failure.

The Reaper "revelation" provided by the Catalyst is completely unfounded and irrelevant to the series and is a poor attempt from BioWare at adding some deeper meaning to the Reapers existence and creating context for the massive galaxy changing ending "choices" we are forced in to.
 
Vamphuntr said:
How would that work if he's a corpse? Make him a husk? They are so generic that they will probably not recognize him anyway. Making a collector? Takes forever man, the others will have time to die from starvation on generic jungle planet #223.
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I figure it's just for propaganda purposes. I suppose you could just kill him and mount his head somewhere, but what if a roboreaper Shepard was out there blasting fools out of airlocks?
EatChildren said:
It's not a matter of believing he's telling the truth or not. It's a matter of calling him out on his bullshit and how the whole Reaper thing is no longer applicable. That his high and mighty 'bu bu bu the cycle' crap is meaningless because you've proven his bullshit wrong. You cannot call him out on this, nor is there any plot thread that leads this way.
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Well, I think he tacitly admits that he was wrong, in a way, at the end. When you talk to him in London prior to the final push to the conduit, he'll talk about how in his time, this uniting of races never happened, and how Shep was the reason it happened.
 
EatChildren said:
The entire basis for your argument at this point is "because they said so", making any debate with you over this matter completely meaningless.
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Think about this... how often do you see someone (on the Internet no-less) admit the other person was right and had a great point? No need to rub it in. Forums would be a better place if everyone wasn't so stubborn to admit they're wrong or give the other guy a point. I just hadn't thought of it like that... Dresden made a great observation. Maybe it was obvious to others but it wasn't to me. I did just finish the game an hour ago, though.
 
Vamphuntr said:
Eat his corpse then eat the corpses of his friends?
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But how would that help you?

Take control of the leader of the united galaxy, plant the suggestion in his head to all go to planet whatever, have a huge reaper ambush there. If you have control of the elader, the one everyone trusts you could easily do what you want.
 
Dresden said:
Well, I think he tacitly admits that he was wrong, in a way, at the end. When you talk to him in London prior to the final push to the conduit, he'll talk about how in his time, this uniting of races never happened, and how Shep was the reason it happened.
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I was speaking mostly about the Catalyst there, not Javik. Javik's conversation on Earth is excellent.

Heavy said:
Think about this... how often do you see someone (on the Internet no-less) admit the other person was right and had a great point? No need to rub it in. Forums would be a better place if everyone wasn't so stubborn to admit they're wrong or give the other guy a point.
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I like to think I do it quite freely whenever the opposition offers a compelling counter argument.
 
Rebel Leader said:
I tweeted them.. let's see if I get tweeted back again
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I tweeted as well.

@masseffect On disappointing ending: I couldn't bring in evidence that refuted the ghost child's claims that the cycle couldn't be broken.

@masseffect When obviously, I just helped resolve the war between organics and synthetics in the Quarian and Geth war.


EatChildren said:
I was speaking mostly about the Catalyst there, not Javik. Javik's conversation on Earth is excellent.



I like to think I do it quite freely whenever the opposition offers a compelling counter argument.
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So there is hope for the Indoctrination side. Mwahahahaha
 
Jake Tower said:
You mean the Hammer of Dawn. The game should have had you switch characters to Jaime for that part, since it's from his native universe.
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He actually wasn't as bad as I was fearing, had some real funny things to say, suprisingly a bit of a pessimist. Good to roll with carnage and inc grenade destroys everything. Just leave his helmet on and you never have to look at his pug nose Jersey shore face.
 
Duki said:
it was pretty easy if you just got out of the reapers way

go behind one of the buildings and the reaper cant hit you

tell your squadmates to follow you

shoot every thing

run like hell when the missile button comes on
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If I'm not mistaken, those big monstrosities actually came into the buildings with me. It distracted me from dealing with the normal reapers and the Banshees. The only reason I survived was due to me spamming adrenaline rush and medigels. I did run when the missile button became available. Man it was like an army of those brutes though.
 
Sojgat said:
For the robot dog?
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LOL!

Shep walks into a room and sees a dog at the controls.

"It was you, wasn't it?"

I just remember the ending of ME1 with Shepard emerging from the citadel rubble and the awesome music and then FAUNTS and then I have this ending which is like poo from a butt
 
I'm busier than I thought, so here's a .gif for now, in lieu of the video I'm working on.

enterthethreadeqa1t.gif
 
Bisnic said:
I played most of the game on hardcore with little deaths, but that part alone made me die like 6 times before i switched to normal(and i still died a few times there). I'm ashamed,
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I played on hardcore w/ vanguard and died a couple times, had to really utilize the wheel. I really enjoyed it...brutes and banshees are fun.
 
bigace33 said:
Bioware = vindicated. They can now pump out more lame endings to $60 games because the facts remain, some people actually liked this ending. :^/
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I don't think bioware should be vindicated at all, especially with all the missing gameplay elements I was expecting to be improved rather than removed from ME1.

Maybe I should rephrase what I meant:

I liked the overall direction bioware intended with how the ending would be presented because I was expecting some cliche happily-ever-after ending, that is why I am not so angry as everyone else.
However, I do agree that the execution definitely fell flat (a lot of holes with the lore, themes, lack of consequences from choices, lack of backstory to the reaper origins, etc).

I just didn't have any preconceived ideas or any high expectations, nor did I over-analyze everything in the moment that the game was ending.
When you set your expectations really low (which I had after ME2), everything comes out much better.

Do I want a more complete ending with a proper closure to the lore, without any holes - of course I do.
All I am saying is I still enjoyed the game.


(and no, I will not be paying for any "true" ending, I will just watch it on youtube).
 
Y2Kev said:
LOL!

Shep walks into a room and sees a dog at the controls.

"It was you, wasn't it?"

I just remember the ending of ME1 with Shepard emerging from the citadel rubble and the awesome music and then FAUNTS and then I have this ending which is like poo from a butt
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And then FAUNTS.
 
MasterShotgun said:
Make sure you talk to him after every mission. You will learn a lot about the past cycle, as well as some funny tidbits about the current advanced species.

I've also heard he schools Liara on Thessia, but I took either Garrus or EDI on my first run. I'm going to correct that mistake on my current playthrough.
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I wish I brought him. I was going to but wanted to run with Tali and Garrus through the game and as we only had room for one I took Tali. She does make all the points about the god looking like a Prothean but I assume it's way better with Javik.
 
EatChildren said:
I like to think I do it quite freely whenever the opposition offers a compelling counter argument.
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Thinking about it some more... is the choice where we kill off the Reapers and take a gamble on organic life breaking the cycle again not the ending we're looking for? Isn't that what we want?
 
bigace33 said:
If I'm not mistaken, those big monstrosities actually came into the buildings with me. It distracted me from dealing with the normal reapers and the Banshees. The only reason I survived was due to me spamming adrenaline rush and medigels. I did run when the missile button became available. Man it was like an army of those brutes though.
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The brutes can't follow, I think, but the banshees will come into the buildings chasing you. Meanwhile the marauders and cannibals are crowding around shooting at you (the real danger on Insanity; shield gets dropped in one or two seconds) and I'm trying to kill them with my pistol while using every cooldown on pushing out Incinerate against the brutes and the banshees. Without the Chakwas upgrade on medigels I probably would've run out halfway in because as an engineer, I needed to keep Garrus and Javik alive for their firepower.

Fun~

Eventually I got some breathing room after killing enough and with another banshee coming in I guessed that the waves might spawn infinitely until I hit the switch.
 
Zomba13 said:
But how would that help you?

Take control of the leader of the united galaxy, plant the suggestion in his head to all go to planet whatever, have a huge reaper ambush there. If you have control of the elader, the one everyone trusts you could easily do what you want.
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Because it wouldn't work. All of your squamates who spent the last years with you would know something is wrong anyway. They saw what happened to Saren and Benezia so they would stop you. It's also stupid because they don't need an indoctrinated Shepard to win. Without Space Magic you wouldn't have won the fight. All of the fleets of the universe were sent to Earth and they were getting slaughtered until the beam fireed.
 
Dresden said:
The brutes can't follow, I think, but the banshees will come into the buildings chasing you. Meanwhile the marauders and cannibals are crowding around shooting at you (the real danger on Insanity; shield gets dropped in one or two seconds) and I'm trying to kill them with my pistol while using every cooldown on pushing out Incinerate against the brutes and the banshees.

Fun~

Eventually I got some breathing room after killing enough and with another banshee coming in I guessed that the waves might spawn infinitely until I hit the switch.
Click to expand...

The brutes jump into the buildings :(. And they'll quickly corner and gangbang you.
 
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