SerArthurDayne
Member
I read something about Shepard, though? Literally he just wakes up and breathes?
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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Zomba13
Member
Oh yeah. Like a few seconds with him back in the London rubble somehow and then a breath. That is literally it. It's the 'reward' for having good EMS when picking destroy. The 'reward' for the others is having Big Ben not blow up.
PinkCrayon
Member
I don't think many people care about the First Contact War. Unless they did a game set before humans entered the fray.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Another thought that ocurred to me while watching the ending.
Shepard basically murders the entire Quarian race, as well as the entire Turian military.
They can't leave, and they can't eat. Sorry guys! Big dramatic, no "good" choice decision takes priority.
I guess the humans and Asari can leave peacefully with the Geth on the planet with probably no resources after it was completely destroyed and turned into a burned out shell for months.
Shepard basically murders the entire Quarian race, as well as the entire Turian military.
They can't leave, and they can't eat. Sorry guys! Big dramatic, no "good" choice decision takes priority.
I guess the humans and Asari can leave peacefully with the Geth on the planet with probably no resources after it was completely destroyed and turned into a burned out shell for months.
The colonies will survive, at least. Better outcome than all advanced life in the galaxy being reaped.
LightofRohan
Member
I'd be down
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
So, I finished this.
The ending wasn't good, but I felt that the game still had lots of resolution and closure in the time leading up to the ending. I feel satisfied, and can now proceed to let Bioware rot.
One minor point: I really liked the piano music during the ending.
The ending wasn't good, but I felt that the game still had lots of resolution and closure in the time leading up to the ending. I feel satisfied, and can now proceed to let Bioware rot.
One minor point: I really liked the piano music during the ending.
HarryHengst
Member
Lol
Maybe the trilogy we just played through was the prequel. Although I guess it's not a prequel if it came first, but you get the point. This could be Mass Effect's War of the Ancients.
Lol
I swear that ME2 still somehow has superior character models. My imported ME2 Shepard looked so much worse.
The ME2 femsheps were horrible with their plastic hair.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I've seen this commented on a few times, but I don't think it's that big of an issue. I'm sure there's some technological solution for turning human food into Quarian/Turian-compatible food. And given the huge depopulation of Earth, I can see there being enough to support lots of aliens, especially because the Reapers had little incentive to destroy the planet's resources.
HarryHengst
Member
The default ME2 Femshep was pretty good, but what they made of it in ME3 was a big step backwards. I was really happy when i found an excellent facecode.
Im pretty sure it was mentioned in the codex that Earth was sustained by the colonies, because it was pretty much stripmined already.
By the way, this might have already been discussed, but I found it too fascinating not to bring up. I'd really like to hear people's reactions in the event that this is what originally was being considered as the 'true' ending.
God, it sounded like a much more logical fucking conclusion. Check it:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/s...nged-dramatically-big-big-spoilers.250066288/
God, it sounded like a much more logical fucking conclusion. Check it:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/s...nged-dramatically-big-big-spoilers.250066288/
I never really cared about getting answers that much. What offends me about the ending is the contradiction of what we know. That we never learned what the reapers were after or how it all ends is an annoyance, but it doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the nonsense we get for the reapers motivations.
Of COURSE Shepard is the only one who is going to see the kid when he is in his DREAMS. That's not what I think is weird about the kid. What I think is weird is the fact that he somehow manages to disappear noiselessly in the airvent after shepard looks away from him. Whats wierd is that the military that is boarding the civilians in the escape shuttles takes no notice of the kid getting on, when that is his job and why he is risking his life in that place. What is wierd is just how bizzare the kid acts. He sees a military officer in a scene of chaos and confusion, and he doesn't listen to what he says, he isn't even scared beyond his wits. He's calm and just says that no one can help. It's surreal. That's not the reaction that a normal kid whose scared shitless would have.
I never really thought much of the ammo gun and space thing myself. If the catalyst can rewrite the DNA of the entire universe, it's likely he can make some kind of invisible space bubble. It's possible that it's a hint, but yeah, its most likely just done for gameplay reasons.
Again, this goes back to the fact that none of the evidence is definitive. Your interpretation of the meaning behind the choices is valid. However, there are reasons it doesn't work. For one, why would the Catalyst give you the option of destroying them if it's purpose was to preserve the previous species by turning them into reapers. Billions of years of harvesting are going to go down the drain, effectively killing all the species he ever saved, because the method he had no longer works for this new species? Why would he do that? And then he says all synthetic life is gone, but we see shepard alive at the end, which confirms that he is at least being wrong or untruthful in regards to what the renegade option does. Then there is the question of why give Shepard the choice at all? He's so powerful, all knowing, why does he let this man, who is obviously wounded so badly he cannot think straight, decide the future of his entire race? In addition, there is the whole way that he disappears in the renegade ending where as he remains in the other two.
Indoctrination isn't simply immediate mind control. It's like being lied to. If your not deeply into it and you know the truth, it doesn't work, you can deny it. The reapers cannot change one of the core aspects of his beliefs within the span of a few minutes. So they have to show him that letting the reapers live might not be such a bad idea. Indoctrination can eventually develop into full mind control, but they have to start small. Otherwise it doesn't work.
As for what they show after you pick any of the ending, with the mass relays exploding and joker running away in the normandy for some reason with your squad, I have no idea what that was. The best explanation I think of is that it's just further hallucinations, but I don't see why he would have them. However, it doesn't contradict either interpretation, nor does it enforce either. It's just sort of there. Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't help your argument in any way.
This one's easy. First off, TIM is indoctrinated and it's unclear whether it's because the reapers are helping him with the indoctrination or if it's his own work. If you believe the latter, his own indoctrination could be different from the reapers in some ways. In fact, I'd expect it to be, because they need to bend to HIS will, and not the reapers. If you think it's the former, that could easily be an inception pulled on us. Again, indoctrination is less mind control and more like being lied to. Shepard is AWARE that he is being indoctrinated at that point, so they show him some false effects, so when the real, in the form of the catalyst, is being done, he is unaware that it is happening and can accept it more easily.
There is no closure, which sucks, I agree, but it doesn't fundamentally go against everything the ME universe stands for, so I consider it a MASSIVE improvement. Furthermore, if it is true, I doubt that bioware is going to leave things off there. They have the true ending planned as DLC. Now, I will be the first to admit that this is shady business practices and it sucks, but the marketting has no effect on the story quality, and if they do provide closure in their DLC, the integrity of the story remains intact.
I'm not even going to deny that that is atleast partially true, but I could easily say the same about the people who insist that there is no possibility that bioware thought this through.
See? This is just blind faith. "There is no WAY bioware could make something this subtle." There is no reason they can't, you just don't think they're good enough, the same way others think bioware is simply too good to do this.
It's as bad as the people who buy the indoctrination theory just because they don't like the ending.
It put me right back at the decision making. I didn't have to repeat my talk with the kid. I just stood in front of the two options again.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I don't buy the indoctrination theory, but damn if I don't hope its true, even if I have to pay Bioware 10 dollars to redeem themselves.
I still don't get it though, he defeats the indoctrination regardless of his choice? He only defeats the indoctrination and "wakes up" if he chooses to beat the Reapers?
Isn't that counter intuitive? If he still has the will to fight, why would they let him out of indoctrination? Or is his will so strong he does it anyway!?
Or is he still indoctrinated, and somebody else will have to pick up the torch?
I still don't get it though, he defeats the indoctrination regardless of his choice? He only defeats the indoctrination and "wakes up" if he chooses to beat the Reapers?
Isn't that counter intuitive? If he still has the will to fight, why would they let him out of indoctrination? Or is his will so strong he does it anyway!?
Or is he still indoctrinated, and somebody else will have to pick up the torch?
Zomba13
Member
You know, if they wanted us to care about the kid and how he symbolises innocence on Earth they should have had him scared shitless, crying, wanting help, worrying where his parents are etc you know, normal things a kid in that situation would do. Not be all 'lol you can't help me' then disappear.
The renegade option is the only one that breaks off the indoctrination. The paragon ending is basically what they wanted to do with TIM. Shepard thinks he's in control, when he actually just gave up the chance to destroy them, meaning they win. In the synthesis ending, it seems that he turns everyone into mini-reapers, meaning bio-synthetics, except without destroying their individuality.
HarryHengst
Member
Who is this 'he' you are talking about. Shepard is a woman, so i assume you are talking about Conrad?
Exactly. Of all the speaking roles in mass effect 3, his is the worst acted with the clunkiest dialogue and by far the least believable. At the time, I just took it as bad acting on part of bioware, but if the indoctrination theory is true, then this is a reaper trying (and failing) to act like a human being. His terrible acting suddenly makes sense.
All right, I'm fully in to the whole 'indoctrination ending' thing now.. these tweets are oh-so-teasy!
User 1: "I still want to believe you guys are sneaky trolls and have something going on you don't tell us yet. Can I get a cryptic reply?"
@masseffect: "The sun, it shines. www.youtube.com/watch"
User 2: "You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope."
@masseffect: "Can't it be both?"
User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."
User 4: "Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough."
@masseffect: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."
User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."
User 6: "Fans are people too. Playing with their minds isn't that nice as it may look like to people from Bioware."
@masseffect: "We're not playing with anyone's minds, we are answering what questions we can and recording what feedback we receive."
User 7: "Its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she [was] with me."
@masseffect: "Probably a good thing to be cautious of."
User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available
."
User 1 -Well, i think i'll stop naggin you and trying to get you to talk about the indoctrination theory.
Good game though!
Merizan - I want people to make up their own minds right now, then when more people have played we'll talk[/i]
User 1: "I still want to believe you guys are sneaky trolls and have something going on you don't tell us yet. Can I get a cryptic reply?"
@masseffect: "The sun, it shines. www.youtube.com/watch"
User 2: "You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope."
@masseffect: "Can't it be both?"
User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."
User 4: "Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough."
@masseffect: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."
User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."
User 6: "Fans are people too. Playing with their minds isn't that nice as it may look like to people from Bioware."
@masseffect: "We're not playing with anyone's minds, we are answering what questions we can and recording what feedback we receive."
User 7: "Its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she [was] with me."
@masseffect: "Probably a good thing to be cautious of."
User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available
."User 1 -Well, i think i'll stop naggin you and trying to get you to talk about the indoctrination theory.
Good game though!Merizan - I want people to make up their own minds right now, then when more people have played we'll talk
[/i]SerArthurDayne
Member
Lol. I do have a femshep laboring through ME2, but I find my motivation to get her through has waned a bit.
Fucking bitter and salty as hell about this ending. Fucking Bioware. You gave me 98% of a good game, but unless you magic it away I will have to fanfic an ending that doesn't suck in my own mind.
I think the problem is that this isn't the first time fans have attempted to explain away inadequate writing by calling it a dream, a hallucination, etc.
Probably just bad acting and writing, man.
Probably just bad acting and writing, man.
Maybe that kid never existed in the first place and was just the beginning of Shepard being indoctrinated. The kid saying "You can't help me" just made me think that maybe that was the reapers trying to convince Shepard that he couldn't win. Trying to break his spirit which is his best weapon against them. Just doesn't seem like the kind of thing a scared child would say, plus then he disappeared when Shepard looked away for a second, that seems like something that happens with hallucinations.
damn. beaten kinda.
I'd buy that if it wasn't for everything else. As I said, I'm not convinced by any single instance, but rather the sheer volume of suggestions that its possible. It eventually seems absurd to me to think that everything is just a coincidence that all happened to fall into place in a way that makes an otherwise totally non sensible ending make sense.
Yes. But with nothing to definitively disproves the theory, when you say conclusively state that there is no way that bioware could possibly do something as subtle as this so it must not be there, that is blind faith talking. I'm not trying to convince you that the theory is legit, there's no definitive evidence for either case. My argument here is only that there is enough evidence, more so than just any arbitrary dream notion like that it was all a dream from the Eden Prime moment, to accept the theory has a real chance of being true.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
nothing disproves the theory that it was all made up by the grandpa at the end of the game either.
There's a difference between what is explicitly shown to you, and expected of you to understand, as the gamer, and things you may or may not pick up as foreshadowing without any eventual confirmation.
You're never going to get anything in the game disproving it either, they probably never even thought of that. As far as they're concerned, they showed what happened. They're not going to sit there and list off the things that it isn't when they very clearly show you what it is.
There's a difference between what is explicitly shown to you, and expected of you to understand, as the gamer, and things you may or may not pick up as foreshadowing without any eventual confirmation.
You're never going to get anything in the game disproving it either, they probably never even thought of that. As far as they're concerned, they showed what happened. They're not going to sit there and list off the things that it isn't when they very clearly show you what it is.
Eagerly awaiting Grandpa DLC.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Like I said earlier, I don't buy the theory, I just want it to be true.
The best support for it is actually twitter. Bioware is either straight up trolling, or there is more than meets the eye (or when 95% of people fucking hated it they realized that shit got real).
If there is more than meets the eye, you can certainly find some support for the idea, however.
Further, I think under the "destroy" ending what you see is consistent with the theory (Shepard waking up in London- how?), and inconsistent without further explanation, as is your crew magicking to the Normandy.
The best support for it is actually twitter. Bioware is either straight up trolling, or there is more than meets the eye (or when 95% of people fucking hated it they realized that shit got real).
If there is more than meets the eye, you can certainly find some support for the idea, however.
Further, I think under the "destroy" ending what you see is consistent with the theory (Shepard waking up in London- how?), and inconsistent without further explanation, as is your crew magicking to the Normandy.
Riposte
Member
Can we pretend Allers isn't real too please?
that humming Vega talks about? it's because Allers brought aboard an indoctrination device.
Mohonky
Member
I am going to go against the general concensus and say that having heard how terrible the end was, i prepared myself. Now hat i have seen it, i didnt think it was that bad. It was not as holy shit worthy as the build up was leading me towardx, but i didnt come away from the game raging, not by a long shot.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
How did he get to a magic flying ancient space station in the first place? He probably just went out the same way he came in. it took the citadel a second to charge up.
think about it like this too. if that was all an indoctrination hallucination, even the good endings that some people like, shep is still laying there in the rubble, then that wasn't the end. bioware didn't include an ending to their game at all and will have to release it later on and you'd have to replay the last mission. even if the dlc were free people would be extremely mad.
Again, you are misunderstanding my argument. It's not merely that there is a lack of evidence against it. I would not believe it just because there is nothing disproving it. It's the bits and pieces that all come together for it that convinces me of it's validity. And you have no definitive evidence FOR the fact that what they showed is what they meant besides your own faith that bioware wouldn't do this. Now, on the other hand, if the work was legitimately badly written, there would be arguements you can make that go against it.
Let me give you an example. Have you ever read the Inhertitance Cycle by Christopher Paolini? Generally terrible series. One interesting notion, however, is the idea that the protagonist is actually the villain while the evil king is actually a decent guy. Now, while there are bits and pieces that support it, it's very clear that the writers intention is to make the main character a good guy and the villain evil for various reasons (the way other characters act, what the villain does, how eragon is portrayed in the text, etc).
When something is badly written due to lack of consideration, even if fans manage to come up with a theory of making it more complex than it is, its' generally contradicted by something in the text. Not just an alternative interpretation, but actually contradicted by the text. Like why is the villain threatening to burn down the town for no reason if he isn't actually evil? If bioware really did write it as sloppily as you say, there would be something that goes against that. This doesn't have anything as far as I can tell.
Being unexplained is not the same thing as being inconsistant. We just don't know what the hell it means, but that doesn't contradict it.
-- They are in pure spin mode until they can get their writers and DLC guys together.
-- No doubt they are very concerned about repurcussions to future DLC sales if people drop out (like I have). They are probably carefully watching the multiplayer participation (as people are now figuring out that it does jack-all to help in SP) and watching sales of the Prothean DLC as news gets out about the ending. If those show signs of deteriorating faster than expected you can bet cash money (or MS points) they will use this initial obfuscation to crap out something like "the ending you saw all took place in a snowglobe" or "Harbinger was in the shower when you woke up." If those look stable then they will just spin this up as "look at how much controversy we stirred with our ARTISTIC ending! Yay we rock, now back to work on Dragon Age 3: The Dragoning and Multiplayer Skin Packs for ME3!"
-- It's quite obvious they themselves thought the ending was avante gard and artistic. Now that they see that a lot of fans hate it, they are just going to follow the money and push out something that will placate the most people so they can get the DLC monetization back on track. If that means they can roll with the fan theory, so much the better for them, saves them some work figuring out how to retcon the hole they dug.
Oh man, with how bad the ending was I forgot all about this piece of crap. I did like how Bioware let you tell her to get lost as soon as you meet her. That Dress, even in the future no serious journalist would dress like that, especially a freakin war correspondent. Did she end up being a possible love interest? Jesus Bioware can be creepy.
She's a woman aboard the Normandy, it's a given that she wants Shepard's dick.
This is also definitely a possibility. I hope it does happen if this is true because then the story quality remains intact. I mean, if you were playing this months afterwards with no knowledge of what bioware did marketing wise, with all the DLC installed, you will just get a great game with an ending that makes sense. It wouldn't change the fact that Bioware's writers are incompetent for not realizing how bad this ending is, but the story would come out of this none the less intact. It'd be an odd case where terrible writers produce a good story.
Mohonky
Member
I tried to get some scissor action out of her but she just wouldnt open up (scuse pun) to me.
FullMetalx
Banned
Stayed up all night and just finished the game.
The type of vibe I'm getting of the ending is the same as the ending of LOST, which is not good... Five Years wasted...
The type of vibe I'm getting of the ending is the same as the ending of LOST, which is not good... Five Years wasted...
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm starting to think the longer we spend in this thread, the more indoctrinated we get. I keep hearing this humming sound now.
This is honestly a bad sign.
Soon you'll be talking to ferns and sticking figs up your butthole I've seen it a million times.
I don't really think that he was proven wrong at all, at least not given the context of his war with the reapers. The head of his empire was cut off from the very beginning (which didn't happen this cycle as we all know) and his people still lasted for over a century against them. You get a report very early in the game that flat out tells you that the currrent cycle would be financially unable to sustain the war effort longer than one year, and the protheans lasted one-hundred times that.
This cycle had a number of thigns working for it, one of which was the final weapon designed by the protheans to win the war. Most importantly, they had someone who knew the reapers were coming and somewhat (as best he could) helped set things in motion prematurely to help get the galaxy ready for war.
If the protheans had all the advantages given to them that this cycle had I would have no doubt they would have won the war the fight against the reapers.
I'm going out on a long fucking limb here, but I'm going to say that the Illusive Man knew what he was doing all along with bringing Shepard back, and that the Shepard he brought back might not in fact be Shepard at all.
I also think that his intentions truly are for the overall good of humanity, at any cost.
I say it will all come together soon and Bioware will be redeemed. The series is just too fucking good to intentionally flush down the shitter. They aren't gonna go all renegade mode and shoot something that prints money in the face.
I also think that his intentions truly are for the overall good of humanity, at any cost.
I say it will all come together soon and Bioware will be redeemed. The series is just too fucking good to intentionally flush down the shitter. They aren't gonna go all renegade mode and shoot something that prints money in the face.
The weapon wasn't designed by the protheans, it was made by countless cycles before them, so they had the same advantage this cycle did. They didn't think of it on the fly. And just because the cycle is financially unstable, that doesn't mean that is the time that they lose. It just means the economy collapsed and their people have to switch to different survival tactics, helping people out out of altruism, hiding out in cities that are ruined, hoping the reapers don't find them. They could still keep up a fight, money just wouldn't be a concern anymore, or just be vastly changed to objects like that one salarian suggested. And no one listened to Shepard anyway. He stopped them form invading early twice, but no one actually did anything until they were at the door.
Besides, Javik himself admits at one point that they fell because they were entirely centered around one race, one believe, no diversity between themselves and others. It made their weaknesses obvious and they had no way of compensating for it.
Also, I did the math. The reaper invasion would last centuries in this cycle as well if only due to huge population. At the rate that they go (about 1.86 million a day), it's take atleast a decade to kill off all of earth alone, let alone the rest of the galaxy.
Terra Firma
Banned
Looks like there's an alternative ending where we don't have to do jack shit about the Reapers because Spiderman comes to save the day.
You can't romance Traynor as male Shepard.
You can't romance Traynor as male Shepard.
Terra Firma
Banned
Can't delete
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