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Legend of Korra |OT| - Saturday Mornings Just Got Better

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googleplex said:
Katara did not suck. Katara was/is one of the more complex female characters in western animation ever.
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Sorry man, can't agree. She was grating on the nerves pretty much everytime she was on-screen for me, no matter how cool bloodbending was.

Not trying to tell anyone else they can't like her, I just don't.
 
The Zuko Katara stuff was annoying as hell so I can see why people are nervous about possiblity of new shipping but we just have to accept it. I don't think Mako is a carbon copy of Zuko. He certainly occupies the same position, which is brooding loner guy but there will always be certain character types that they need to fill in a cartoon. Besides Korra is definitely not Katara.
 
apana said:
The Zuko Katara stuff was annoying as hell so I can see why people are nervous about possiblity of new shipping but we just have to accept it. I don't think Mako is a carbon copy of Zuko. He certainly occupies the same position, which is brooding loner guy but there will always be certain character types that they need to fill in a cartoon. Besides Korra is definitely not Katara.
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I really think the uneasiness is due to how well Mako is occupying the position (hell he's even a firebender for fucks sakes) to the point its looking like pandering to some.


Should be interesting seeing how he's fleshed out and i hope he isn't defined by that "Zuko" shit but he is his own character..
 
AlphaDragoon said:
Sorry man, can't agree. She was grating on the nerves pretty much everytime she was on-screen for me, no matter how cool bloodbending was.
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I'm talking about the how the Katara was developed as a character in relation to her personal history, and interactions with other characters. Not her bending ability.

Katara was a someone whom was with her mother in her final moments before she was murdered. The saw her family fall apart without her mother the stabilizing influence. So she did her best to take her mother's place, desperately trying to hold her family together. At the same time she had to deal being the only water bender in the south pole with no one to guide her. And then just to add insult to injury, her father (and most of the men) left her to fight a war!

All of these things influenced the person Katara became, even down to her trust issues. She was a good person, that had an almost compulsive drive to "mother" people, because she knows with it's like to lose one. She is a very trusting person until you betray that trust then it's almost impossible to gain it back.

Because Katara was now "Mom", she wasn't really allowed to grieve for her mother because her job was the family Anchor. The sadness of her mother's murder turned into resentment, which turned into anger, that she unleashed on her father when they reunited, and then on Soka. Even going as far as accusing him of not loving their mother as much as she did!


Katara was an incredibly complex character for a kids show. I much prefer Katara to Toph's, "Look at me! on young powerful, punky and a tomboy!"
 
googleplex said:
I'm talking about the how the Katara was developed as a charters in relation to her personal history and interactions with other characters. Not her bending ability.
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I know what you mean. I'm saying that no matter how awesome it was that she could blood bend (because that was awesome), I still don't like her character. And that's without even going into that Aang/Katara business which I hated (I felt like the first show didn't really need romantic relationships period for the most part).

Ignis Fatuus said:
You should be tried for crimes against humanity and spelling.
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I kinda have to agree, because Toph was pretty damn boss.
 
I like both of them!

But I do like Toph better.

apana said:
The Zuko Katara stuff was annoying as hell so I can see why people are nervous about possiblity of new shipping but we just have to accept it. I don't think Mako is a carbon copy of Zuko. He certainly occupies the same position, which is brooding loner guy but there will always be certain character types that they need to fill in a cartoon. Besides Korra is definitely not Katara.
Click to expand...

When I first watched the first two episodes of Korra, Mako did remind me of Zuko and I actually thought he was an obvious expy but since rewatching the original series (well 45 episodes into it, anyway), I'm not really seeing the resemblance as strongly. There's some superficial similarities, to be suer and people are probably right that he was created to appeal to the same fanbase, but I don't think that's a reason to decide he's going to be awful two episodes in and almost completely sight unseen.
 
AlphaDragoon said:
I know what you mean. I'm saying that no matter how awesome it was that she could blood bend (because that was awesome), I still don't like her character. And that's without even going into that Aang/Katara business which I hated (I felt like the first show didn't really need romantic relationships period for the most part).



I kinda have to agree, because Toph was pretty damn boss.
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Don't get me wrong, I loved Toph. But I knew all there was to know about Toph her her first episode. besides learning to bend metal, she was pretty much a one dimensional character. Toph was all about kicking ass and taking names.

I just prefer characters like Katara.

Edit: I'm way to drunk to be typing right now.
 
Infinite Justice said:
Or you could just type out why you disagree.
Click to expand...

The subject of Toph and her depth as a character has already been covered many times in this thread by her legion of admiring fans and I think you know that already. But for our drunk friend...

At the beginning it is difficult for Toph to connect emotionally with others; her encounter with Iroh is the first time we see her start to do this. That unlikely and instant friendship is what prompts her to return to the gang. We don't see her really open up to the others until season three when she has her fight and reconciliation with Katara; there we find out that she has mommy and daddy issues and isn't just a tomboyish wild child, she's actually very emotionally vulnerable. She's also insecure about her image, a problem stemming from her blindness, as we saw in Ba Sing Se. In the season finale she shows that she has the same fears as everyone else when she cries thinking that she and Sokka are about to die.

In short, calling her one dimensional is basically factually wrong. She has a clear character arc that takes her from being an emotional recluse, a product of her upbringing, to being able to connect with other people. What he perceives as one dimensional is simply the image she adopts because she doesn't know how to interact genuinely with people; the fact that it comes across as simplistic and forced is a testament to how well her character is written. And that's without even discussing the blindness: Toph is also a handicapped character but never shies away from her disability or allows it to define her--she lets neither man nor nature dictate her place in life.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to prove the point. If you still think she's one dimensional by the end of the show, you didn't pay attention to it. If The Legend of Korra can produce even one character with half the depth of Toph, then I will be ecstatic.

And I still wish I could hate him to death!
 
Ignis Fatuus said:
Nothing yet but it's not even clear that they're still together after the one year timeskip. They haven't been seen together and right now
Suki is guarding Zuko with the other Kyoshi Warriors in the Fire Nation
while
Sokka is flying around with Aang and friends
.
Click to expand...

And this makes him
getting with Toph
making sense...how? I can't see that at all and if it turns out to be true it's a complete fail on the writers part.
 
Ignis Fatuus said:
The subject of Toph and her depth as a character has already been covered many times in this thread by her legion of admiring fans and I think you know that already. But for our drunk friend...

At the beginning it is difficult for Toph to connect emotionally with others; her encounter with Iroh is the first time we see her start to do this. That unlikely and instant friendship is what prompts her to return to the gang. We don't see her really open up to the others until season three when she has her fight and reconciliation with Katara; there we find out that she has mommy and daddy issues and isn't just a tomboyish wild child, she's actually very emotionally vulnerable. She's also insecure about her image, a problem stemming from her blindness, as we saw in Ba Sing Se. In the season finale she shows that she has the same fears as everyone else when she cries thinking that she and Sokka are about to die.

In short, calling her one dimensional is basically factually wrong. She has a clear character arc that takes her from being an emotional recluse, a product of her upbringing, to being able to connect with other people. What he perceives as one dimensional is simply the image she adopts because she doesn't know how to interact genuinely with people; the fact that it comes across as simplistic and forced is a testament to how well her character is written. And that's without even discussing the blindness: Toph is also a handicapped character but never shies away from her disability or allows it to define her--she lets neither man nor nature dictate her place in life.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to prove the point. If you still think she's one dimensional by the end of the show, you didn't pay attention to it. If The Legend of Korra can produce even one character with half the depth of Toph, then I will be ecstatic.

And I still wish I could hate him to death!
Click to expand...

This made me like Toph more than I did previously.
 
Ignis Fatuus said:
good post
Click to expand...

There you go (except for the last line!)

Ignis Fatuus said:
I mean really, I would prefer to go back to talking about ridiculous shipping. They're actually demanding an explanation of why Toph isn't one dimensional!
Click to expand...

No ill will against toph and i do think she's multidimensional, but i just wanted some explanation in the thread rather than some one liner voicing disagreement. :P



Edit: I checked out the end of TLA and that Korra preview clip with Amon
and it really does look like energy bending since the finger is at the same position in the head as Aang did when he took out Ozai. So either its energybending or Amon found a chi blocking point that does the same thing and disables bending permanently.


Gonna be mighty interesting.
 
Just saw the promos. Holy moly. Don't care about the shipping stuff since they always spend very little time on the romantic stuff in the first series, but the Amon stuff? Wow!

It really does look like Amon has some kind of technique to take away bending. I doubt it's the same form of energy bending that Aang did since I always was under the impression that the technique he used was exclusive to the Avatar but we'll see.
I guess shit will go down pretty soon in the first 12 episodes. Looking forward to this so much.
 
Hey guys, what were you talking about while I was aslee-


i8UBxb0TxU8jC.gif
 
Ignis Fatuus said:
The subject of Toph and her depth as a character has already been covered many times in this thread by her legion of admiring fans and I think you know that already. But for our drunk friend...

At the beginning it is difficult for Toph to connect emotionally with others; her encounter with Iroh is the first time we see her start to do this. That unlikely and instant friendship is what prompts her to return to the gang. We don't see her really open up to the others until season three when she has her fight and reconciliation with Katara; there we find out that she has mommy and daddy issues and isn't just a tomboyish wild child, she's actually very emotionally vulnerable. She's also insecure about her image, a problem stemming from her blindness, as we saw in Ba Sing Se. In the season finale she shows that she has the same fears as everyone else when she cries thinking that she and Sokka are about to die.

In short, calling her one dimensional is basically factually wrong. She has a clear character arc that takes her from being an emotional recluse, a product of her upbringing, to being able to connect with other people. What he perceives as one dimensional is simply the image she adopts because she doesn't know how to interact genuinely with people; the fact that it comes across as simplistic and forced is a testament to how well her character is written. And that's without even discussing the blindness: Toph is also a handicapped character but never shies away from her disability or allows it to define her--she lets neither man nor nature dictate her place in life.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to prove the point. If you still think she's one dimensional by the end of the show, you didn't pay attention to it. If The Legend of Korra can produce even one character with half the depth of Toph, then I will be ecstatic.

And I still wish I could hate him to death!
Click to expand...

Ok I agree with all this. I like Toph, but the problem here is what you described is pretty much just the "tough guy" trope. We see this all the time. I think Toph is a well developed character, but I would say that Katara is as well and Katara's "role" is a much less conventional one than "tough guy who deep down really is vulnerable."
 
It seems that Katara had a brotherly love for Aang throughout the series. She acted like a big sister for all of the show. It was extremely unrealistic for her to have romantic feelings for Aang in the last 5 minutes. Yeah, i know, realism in a kids show, but the showing of Katara´s mopre than brotherly emotions in the last 5 minutes did not sit well wit me.

Ignis Fatuus said:
The subject of Toph and her depth as a character has already been covered many times in this thread by her legion of admiring fans and I think you know that already. But for our drunk friend...

At the beginning it is difficult for Toph to connect emotionally with others; her encounter with Iroh is the first time we see her start to do this. That unlikely and instant friendship is what prompts her to return to the gang. We don't see her really open up to the others until season three when she has her fight and reconciliation with Katara; there we find out that she has mommy and daddy issues and isn't just a tomboyish wild child, she's actually very emotionally vulnerable. She's also insecure about her image, a problem stemming from her blindness, as we saw in Ba Sing Se. In the season finale she shows that she has the same fears as everyone else when she cries thinking that she and Sokka are about to die.

In short, calling her one dimensional is basically factually wrong. She has a clear character arc that takes her from being an emotional recluse, a product of her upbringing, to being able to connect with other people. What he perceives as one dimensional is simply the image she adopts because she doesn't know how to interact genuinely with people; the fact that it comes across as simplistic and forced is a testament to how well her character is written. And that's without even discussing the blindness: Toph is also a handicapped character but never shies away from her disability or allows it to define her--she lets neither man nor nature dictate her place in life.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to prove the point. If you still think she's one dimensional by the end of the show, you didn't pay attention to it. If The Legend of Korra can produce even one character with half the depth of Toph, then I will be ecstatic.

And I still wish I could hate him to death!
Click to expand...

Cheers.
 
Phoenician_Viking said:
It seems that Katara had a brotherly love for Aang throughout the series. She acted like a big sister for all of the show. It was extremely unrealistic for her to have romantic feelings for Aang in the last 5 minutes. Yeah, i know, realism in a kids show, but the showing of Katara´s mopre than brotherly emotions in the last 5 minutes did not sit well wit me.



Cheers.
Click to expand...

Were we watching the same show?
 
Phoenician_Viking said:
It seems that Katara had a brotherly love for Aang throughout the series. She acted like a big sister for all of the show. It was extremely unrealistic for her to have romantic feelings for Aang in the last 5 minutes. Yeah, i know, realism in a kids show, but the showing of Katara´s mopre than brotherly emotions in the last 5 minutes did not sit well wit me.



Cheers.
Click to expand...

Wiseblade said:
Were we watching the same show?
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Agreed wise. Seriously, the love angle has been there since season 1.
 
Phoenician_Viking said:
It seems that Katara had a brotherly love for Aang throughout the series. She acted like a big sister for all of the show. It was extremely unrealistic for her to have romantic feelings for Aang in the last 5 minutes. Yeah, i know, realism in a kids show, but the showing of Katara´s mopre than brotherly emotions in the last 5 minutes did not sit well wit me.



Cheers.
Click to expand...

No.
It started as brotherly love.
But you could clearly see it evolve throughout the series into much more. Katara watched Aang grow and become strong and mature, and she started to reciprocate the feeling towards him.
 
GCX said:
But you're not supposed to like the fire lord, man!
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Actually, that isn't far from the truth.
Ozai was the only character in the series that was not used to his fullest.
He was the most generic foil of a villain ever.
"Rawr! I'll just kill everyone! Cause I'm evil!"

There was no reasoning, no real motive. And even at the end, he was still the exact same.

That being said:

It's not really a big deal. The show was far less about Aang vs Ozai. And more about Aang vs Aang. It was a show about the journey.

Korra, on the other hand, is very clearly going to be a three way battle. Korra fighting herself and the Equalists (specifically Amon).
 
AceBandage said:
Actually, that isn't far from the truth.
Ozai was the only character in the series that was not used to his fullest.
He was the most generic foil of a villain ever.
"Rawr! I'll just kill everyone! Cause I'm evil!"

There was no reasoning, no real motive. And even at the end, he was still the exact same.

That being said:

It's not really a big deal. The show was far less about Aang vs Ozai. And more about Aang vs Aang. It was a show about the journey.

Korra, on the other hand, is very clearly going to be a three way battle. Korra fighting herself and the Equalists (specifically Amon).
Click to expand...

Eh, I don't think the firelord was THAT unrealistic. He was basically manifest destiny personified that made sense to me as motivation.
 
Ezduo said:
I always considered the energy bending or whatever as the biggest disappointment of the original series and a gigantic deus ex machina thrown in at the last possible moment to sidestep the moral quandary Aang had been dealing with the entire series. If Amon is indeed doing the same thing my thought process is thus: they'll better explain it better which could potentially smooth out the rough edges I felt the original series ending had or they'll leave it as vague as ever which will be pretty disappointing but depending on how everything else works out not the end of the world. We'll see. I feel like it would've worked better if this had been a brand new thing rather than a carryover power from the original series.
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That's interesting. I liked the fact that it was brought in at the last moment, and it was the perfect purpose for the Lion Turtle.

With that said, I hope energy bending does not appear in this series. In the original, it was something special.
 
Tuck said:
That's interesting. I liked the fact that it was brought in at the last moment, and it was the perfect purpose for the Lion Turtle.

With that said, I hope energy bending does not appear in this series. In the original, it was something special.
Click to expand...

There would be no way that Korra could learn Energy Bending.
Aang was the perfect combination for it.
The Avatar
Completely Connected to the Spiritual World
Had already died once.

Korra could never learn to do it.
 
AceBandage said:
There would be no way that Korra could learn Energy Bending.
Aang was the perfect combination for it.
The Avatar
Completely Connected to the Spiritual World
Had already died once.

Korra could never learn to do it.
Click to expand...

Well isn't the avatar state the combination of everything past avatar learned?
 
CrazyDude said:
Well isn't the avatar state the combination of everything past avatar learned?
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It brings up their strength and memories. I don't think it automatically allows you to use every single thing they could.
Add to that, you still have to MASTER the Avatar state, which, again, is not in Korra's style.
If Energy Bending does return, I'll be pissed. There's no reason for it. Solve your problems your own way.
 
AceBandage said:
It brings up their strength and memories. I don't think it automatically allows you to use every single thing they could.
Add to that, you still have to MASTER the Avatar state, which, again, is not in Korra's style.
If Energy Bending does return, I'll be pissed. There's no reason for it. Solve your problems your own way.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows she is going to learn the avatar state eventually. You can't be the Avatar with out it.
 
CrazyDude said:
Everyone knows she is going to learn the avatar state eventually. You can't be the Avatar with out it.
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There's a difference between using it and mastering it.
Aang almost mastered it (via the guru), but every other time, it was in response to something.
Korra doesn't have the will (at least, not right now or any time soon) to be able to release herself from her physical being.

QuiteWhittle said:
Korra is definitely mastering the Avatar State.
Click to expand...



In order for that to happen, she would have to become far more spiritual than even Aang. And I just do not see that happening.
 
AceBandage said:
There's a difference between using it and mastering it.
Aang almost mastered it (via the guru), but every other time, it was in response to something.
Korra doesn't have the will (at least, not right now or any time soon) to be able to release herself from her physical being.





In order for that to happen, she would have to become far more spiritual than even Aang. And I just do not see that happening.
Click to expand...

Aang did master it completely by the end though, that's also why he is the youngest fully realized Avatar.

On the subject of Korra, I kinda agree she will not master it during the series. She will undoubtly do so sometime in her life though.

AceBandage said:
Ty Lei's martial arts.
That's been speculated for ages now that her abilities would be the cornerstone for the Equalist's fighting.
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I think he's talking about
completely taking away the bending
 
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