Plus Trayvon's arms were beneath his body when the police found him.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
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Plus Trayvon's arms were beneath his body when the police found him.
The middle finger photo that wasn't even trayvon?
And what the fuck at the people calling a screwdriver a "robbery tool" and accusing trayvon of having stolen jewelry despite the jewelry not being stolen. Because, you know, there is no conceivable reason for a kid with a girlfriend to have jewelry in his possession.
F****ing punks.
Seeing how close the incident happened to where he was staying, it's surprising his father did not figure out something happened to his son until later.
Also, the statements Zimmermans siblings are accusing Trayvon of saying sound ridiculous it's insulting....your going to die now...like he some type of contract killer.
shanshan310
Member
Why are the statements of the brother, who wasn't there and is heavily emotionally involved, being taken over eye witness statements? =/ "Oh yeah he totally said all that".
Zoe
Member
Funeral director and coroner are two different people. Funeral directors are hired by the family--they are not a part of the investigation.
I think the main problem is that he keeps spouting the sanford police department as "FACT" when it isn't. Then he gets all huffy when people don't believe them.
shanshan310
Member
lolwtf?!? this shit sounds so fake.
i can't help but think about that scene in The Mask with Jim Carrey. lulz
Zoe
Member
They're keeping their mouths shut, as everyone else probably should at this point.
BruiserBear
Banned
There are only two things I've suggested are facts from the police report. Two things. That does not in any way mean that I believe every word of the Sanford Police department, but it's funny that you just suggested as much.
The things I'm inclined to believe are the following:
1) The first officer on the scene noted Zimmerman's back was wet and had grass on it.
2) That Zimmerman had blood coming from his nose and some on the back of his head.
Those two things would be such random things to just make up, on the spot, that I find it very hard to believe they were completely made up. Especially when there is some evidence from other sources to back those things up. Such as a 911 caller stating they saw someone wearing a "white shirt" on top of the other person. Zimmerman was wearing a red coat, so the idea that a 911 caller would mistakenly identify a red jacket as a "white shirt" seems like a real long shot.
Vicetrailia
Banned
There are plenty of reasons to believe that number two is false. I don't need to recite everything all over again. You should really consider all of that information.
Also for the exact same "who on top of who scenario", two other eye witnesses have said otherwise.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
lol ok...
one of them has to have had signs of a struggle... it's just not possible to fight for your life with someone and leave NO evidence that you fought.. that includes bruises, cuts, dna under fingernails.. hair, or anything...
BattleMonkey
Member
Is there any known witness potential from EMT's on scene? Read that they said that the police took care of Zimmermans injuries which itself sounds odd. EMT testimony would be pretty important and they should have seen him if there was injuries. Don't see why the police suddenly are playing medics.
Final position of body is usually not very conclusive of anything, medical examiners will tell you this and was always repeated to us when I served on the grand jury. Unlike the movies people don't generally just fall down dead still and often are still moving around in their pain.
The comedic "you got me" is the most odd thing here really.
Final position of body is usually not very conclusive of anything, medical examiners will tell you this and was always repeated to us when I served on the grand jury. Unlike the movies people don't generally just fall down dead still and often are still moving around in their pain.
The comedic "you got me" is the most odd thing here really.
shanshan310
Member
Zimmerman was wearing a white shirt under the coat.
Assuming he really did say anything, in all likelihood he probably said 'You shot me.' as if surprised Zimmerman really did it. Zimmerman probably just misheard him.
It's an odd thing to lie about someone's final words anyway, and it's not as if it helps his case.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Zimmerman was wearing a light-grey t-shirt under his red coat while Tray was wearing a dark grey hoodie. The Hoodie was still on him when the body was found.
It could be a case of art imitating life. I've never been shot nor seen someone else shot in a situation where it would come as a complete and total surprise (or in general really), so I can't be sure.
If Trayvon had just been shot, whatever came out of his mouth was borderline delirious. For all we know he meant to say "You shot me" and then his rapidly-dying brain transposed words as he lost consciousness.
Conclusion: Means nothing. He could have said "I'M A MURDERING KILLER" and it'd be as useful as "evidence" as "You got me."
Conclusion: Means nothing. He could have said "I'M A MURDERING KILLER" and it'd be as useful as "evidence" as "You got me."
Zoe
Member
Was it ever said if it was a zip-up hoodie or not?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
People don't die that quickly... Not that I believe he said you got me but...
Vicetrailia
Banned
From what I recall it was described as a sweatshirt hoodie. Also I take back that it was dark gray, different sources say different things (mostly just gray hoodie, which can mean a lot).
I thought that he was wearing something like this light-grey hoodie:
But it looks like I had no reason to assume that.
I'd like to lock down what hoodie he was wearing exactly.
I don't really think we can put a timeline on how people die, especially when we don't have the exact coroner's report.
But, let's say Trayvon had his heart (and torso) pierced, he's going to lose consciousness FAST as the blood loss will take, according to the sources I just checked, 5-15 seconds.
Barely enough time to say anything as your vision is going black.
Zoe
Member
From what I recall it was described as a sweatshirt hoodie. Also I take back that it was dark gray, different sources say different things (mostly just gray hoodie, which can mean a lot).
I thought that he was wearing something like this light-grey hoodie:
But it looks like I had no reason to assume that.
I'd like to lock down what hoodie he was wearing exactly.
Unless he was wearing a hoodie that was open showing a white shirt, I'm not sure how much weight that witness's statement would hold since they were both wearing some shade of grey instead of white.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He was all good until people started complaining
He still might not get arrested, looking at how easy it is to kill someone in Florida. Apparently someone walking up to your car angry is reason enough to shoot them, or stepping onto your boat angry.
Basically, if someone steps to you angry, you can be like "Oh, I thought he was going to kill me".
It's fucking unbelievable to me, heck you can just say that someone was stepping to you angry, and I don't see how anyone would know different.
Why? It's become clear that
1) He's not exactly the clearest thinker. He already has a record for thinking he's untouchable.
2) He IS untouchable, to some degree, given his family's connections.
He hasn't been arrested yet, so this suggests that he's actually right in both of those reasons.
Vicetrailia
Banned
I don't know why people justify it either. Oh wait, they do because it's the law. That's all it takes.
Need better laws man...that's it.
I'm not so sure about that. Trayvon's hoodie was dark grey. Zimmerman's shirt was light grey. The witnesses described the man on top as wearing a white shirt.
A dark grey is much harder to mistake for white than alight grey. And they said shirt, not sweater, not hoodie.
If zimmerman removed his jacket, it explains why the jacket was wet with stains, why zimmerman was the person the witnesses saw on top, and why they saw him wearing a white shirt (because he removed his jacket).
The question then is, why did he remove his jacket, and what of the alleged bleeding and broken nose?
BattleMonkey
Member
The law is fine in concept, but the execution of it's intent is completely wrong. Fear should not be an excuse to be able to kill someone else.
You really are not supposed to simply be able to claim "I was scared", there had to be a reason for you to assume probable cause that your life was in danger. But without witnesses you basically get a suspect who can pretty much say anything.... "he was reaching in his pants and pulling something out while coming at me saying hes going to kill me!". Without witnesses, a person can get away with murder
BruiserBear
Banned
The reasons people have given for number two being false basically amount to conspiracy theories, and "I dont' see any blood in this video taken 30 minutes later, so it can't be true".
I'm not saying the police are 100% credible, but the first cop on the scene said Zimmerman had some blood from his nose, and on the back of his head. Make of that what you will, but it's in the report, and it would be a very random thing for a cop to just create out of thin air and say on a report.
The same goes for the wet grass on the back of his red jacket. That would be a very random thing to just make up and put in your police report.
The "on top" scenario is only questionable because people are trying to put different statements together at different times, and say they're the same. While the scuffle was happening, a 911 caller said "a guy in a white shirt is on top of the other one".
I'm not aware of a single other person who says they saw different while the scuffle was occurring. I am aware of others saying after the shot was heard, they then saw Zimmerman on top of Martin. AFTER the gun shot was heard.
Yes, but the first cop on the scene said he was wearing his red jacket, and it had wet grass on the back of it.
So we have a 911 caller saying they see a guy in a "white shirt" on top of the other.
Then we have a cop who shows up and says Zimmerman is wearing his red coat, and it's got grass on the back.
Did the 911 caller and the cop talk before hand, and make sure they had their stories straight? Of course not. So it seems pretty damn likely Zimmerman's coat was always on him.
That is an interesting thought there.
It's just a little weird to imagine him taking off his coat in the heat of the moment.
Consider that maybe he took his jacket off at one point? That it was on the grass - ie, getting wet - and he put it back on inbetween the time he shot trayvon and waited for the cops?
Or maybe his jacket was open, and all people saw was the stark white underneath, since seeing red at night is a bit hard?
You jump to these "Pretty damn likely" conclusions PRETTY easily, and knock people down for doing the same thing.
Jacket - Three Reasonable Possibilities:
Was not wearing jacket because he was in his car, left it in car during altercation, wore it to station.
Had jacket on entire duration.
Took jacket off in "come at me bro" moment.
And it was raining at some point.
BruiserBear
Banned
Well, this should be very easy to clear up, because neighbors walked up Zimmerman seconds after the shooting, so I'd love to hear one of them asked "when you saw him on top of Trayvon, was he wearing his coat. I'm sure that will be cleared up during a trial.
Your first idea would require the cop first on the scene entirely fabricated that he was wearing a red coat, and it had grass on the back of it.
Zoramon089
Banned
It's like something I watched in one of my japanese anime. Bet he fell back with a smirk on his face too, right? Such BS...
Zoe
Member
Was his shirt white or grey?
That makes zero sense. Neighbors walked up to Zimmerman seconds after the shooting, but didn't see the shooting? Why would you hear a gunshot, and then immediately walk up to the person shooting? And how could they be in a position to do so seconds after it happened without actually seeing the event take place?
demigod
Member
Who in their fucking mind would walk up to someone *seconds* after a gunshot goes off? Are you fucking stupid?
BruiserBear
Banned
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...c-news-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-zimmerman
"ABC News has re-digitized video of George Zimmerman taken shortly after Trayvon Martin's shooting.
The video was unveiled as an exclusive this morning on "Good Morning America." ABC was the first news organization to show the original tape."
"Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows "what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman's head."
Neighborhood Watch volunteer Zimmerman has said he shot 17-year-old Trayvon in self-defense. The video shows Zimmerman arriving at the Sanford Police Department within an hour after the shooting.
Gutman said the video had been "clarified" by Forensic Protection Inc. Former FBI Special Agent Brad Garrett told ABC that the clearer video shows "marks on the back of Mr. Zimmerman's head."
"ABC News has re-digitized video of George Zimmerman taken shortly after Trayvon Martin's shooting.
The video was unveiled as an exclusive this morning on "Good Morning America." ABC was the first news organization to show the original tape."
"Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows "what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman's head."
Neighborhood Watch volunteer Zimmerman has said he shot 17-year-old Trayvon in self-defense. The video shows Zimmerman arriving at the Sanford Police Department within an hour after the shooting.
Gutman said the video had been "clarified" by Forensic Protection Inc. Former FBI Special Agent Brad Garrett told ABC that the clearer video shows "marks on the back of Mr. Zimmerman's head."
BruiserBear
Banned
I guess you two had better direct your questions to this lady.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-eOl1Iq332o#t=182s
Who? What? Where?
The guy from Everybody Loves Raymond is a Former FBI agent?!
I wonder if AIR-QUOTE Re-Digitized footage will be allowed in the trial, cause this sounds pretty hilarious.
The video is mostly for the court of public opinion. At trial things like medical records and statements from EMTs(or a lack of those things) will be what matters most. The video could be important if those things are not produced by the defense.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Beaten so badly he feared for his life so he was forced to shoot an innocent kid? Yeah, not seeing that shit at all. But thanks for the update.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
While we are quoting witnesses..
Also his head wounds are crucial, if I were free after I murdered someone and everyone was talking about if I had wounds on my head I would run my dome into a car door so fast...
Just like OJ sitting on his hands and fumbling the gloves...
Also his head wounds are crucial, if I were free after I murdered someone and everyone was talking about if I had wounds on my head I would run my dome into a car door so fast...
Just like OJ sitting on his hands and fumbling the gloves...
But could the 're-digitized' video be provided as any kind of evidence? Would they have to bring in some joke expert to say 'Yep, this Re-Digitazation is Legit! I know because I've seen a few Re-Digitazations in the past!' *collects paycheck*
Their completely random FBI agent has weighed in.
Anyone seen the footage from 'Good Morning America'?
I trust some random GAFers opinion just as much as random ex-FBI dude.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Like I said earlier, meaningless. Trayvon had every right to defend himself from a guy with a weapon. He clearly wasn't being beaten to a pulp though.
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