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Storytelling in Videogames - To Cutscene or not to Cutscene

C

Card Boy

Banned
I was watching a video on TotalBiscuit's channel where he goes into a in depth explanation of cutscenes and story telling in games. The trigger for the video was when he did a WTF is of Max Payne 3 where the game was basically way too much cutscene to the point of very little gameplay.

The problem with cutscene generation it makes you more of a spectator than a 'player'. You are the hero of the game, you should be able to move the story along at your own pace rather than the game forcing you through cutscenes. It may sound selfish or egotistical but the game is all about YOU, the protagonist. I think good example is the Elder Scrolls series. The games don't have cutscenes, but like Half-Life the story is told through dialog and experiencing the events first hand, you become the hero of that game at your own pace.

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TB mentions Doom as an example of game with little to no story and the game holds up to this day on gameplay alone.

* So are we more becoming a viewer rather than a player?
* What are a good examples of a game done right through storytelling?
* Are developers focusing too much on delivering too much blockbuster 'cinematic' experiences instead of gameplay?
* Are QTEs a acknowledgement of the problem?
* Are an overuse of cutscenes an admission that a developers game can't stand up on gameplay alone?

What are you're thoughts on the whole cutscene generation and storytelling though games?

Video in question that was the inspiration for this thread
 
Don't mind cutscenes as long as the story is good. Just don't have too many at the beginning of a game.

Genre makes a big difference as well

All games need to have a pause and skip scene feature though. It's criminal that not every game does this
 
I'd like cutscenes back please. After playing Crysis 2 and Syndicate this year I am sick of "first-person" storytelling. That shit is awful and forced now.
 
Gez said:
True, i think its mostly acceptable in an RPG as its all about story. But you have to look at FF13 as a prime example of way too much cutscene.
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FFXIII's problem was pretty much that 2010 diagram you posted. Cutscene>Walk a bit> Cutscene. It get's jarring. If it was the normal cutscene at the beginning and end with none in between, it would've been okay.
 
Shahed1987 said:
Don't mind cutscenes as long as the story is good. Just don't have too many at the beginning of a game.

Genre makes a big difference as well

All games need to have a pause and skip scene feature though. It's criminal that not every game does this
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yeah, pause and skip commands should be mandatory.

I think cut scenes are not bad if you don't feel that they are "in the way", Batman:AA did a wonderful work with this; the cut scenes are short, concise and most of them were made with the game engine, so they didn't take an eternity to load, and were easily integrated with the gameplay.

FF6 did that wonderfully too on the SNES era, the beautiful and huge battle sprites (for its time) allowed even "in battle" cutscenes that flowed really well and didn't feel forced.
 
I'm fine with (skippable) cutscenes, but I find that even more immersive methods of storytelling are often worse as they can't be skipped. Solution: make them skippable. That includes non-controllable first-person storytelling (Crysis 2/Black Ops mission intros), slow walk sequences (Uncharted 3), and passive/fully-controllable dialogue moments such (Half Life 2). During these moments, display a small icon in the bottom corner of the screen that tells me I can hit a button to fast-forward to the next actual game part of the game. Please don't make it a chore to replay these things.
 
Gez said:
The problem with cutscene generation it makes you more of a spectator than a 'player'. You are the hero of the game, you should be able to move the story along at your own pace rather than the game forcing you through cutscenes. It may sound selfish or egotistical but the game is all about YOU, the protagonist. I think good example is the Elder Scrolls series. The games don't have cutscenes, but like Half-Life the story is told through dialog and experiencing the events first hand, you become the hero of that game at your own pace.
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This is where I totally disagree with you

Not every game needs to be a 'you become the hero' scenario

I actually enjoy playing a game through the eyes of a character and that characters own story and being immersed in their world, moreso than any number of bland nameless, wordless make-your-own story kind of heroes

And if that means more cutscenes, then that's fine by me. As long as they're well directed I can sit and watch them
 
Just started Driver: San Francisco and I already hate the cutscenes.

Drive for 5 seconds > cutscene
jump into car > cutscene > THEN I can drive

It's probably just the intro shit, but MAN was it annoying.
 
The Xtortionist said:
I'm fine with (skippable) cutscenes, but I find that even more immersive methods of storytelling are often worse as they can't be skipped. Solution: make them skippable. That includes non-controllable first-person storytelling (Crysis 2/Black Ops mission intros), slow walk sequences (Uncharted 3), and passive/fully-controllable dialogue moments such (Half Life 2). During these moments, display a small icon in the bottom corner of the screen that tells me I can hit a button to fast-forward to the next actual game part of the game. Please don't make it a chore to replay these things.
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These are devastating at time, especially when you're replaying the game. Uncharted 3's desert sequence? Liked it the first time. Absolutely hated it on my Crushing playthrough.
 
Rodney McKay said:
Just started Driver: San Francisco and I already hate the cutscenes.

Drive for 5 seconds > cutscene
jump into car > cutscene > THEN I can drive

It's probably just the intro shit, but MAN was it annoying.
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I can't enjoy GTA4 for the same reason, I can't past the first missions because too many cutscenes and tutorials bores me to death.
 
Crappy story and poor dialog can sour you on wanting to replay a game. The intrusive dialog in Diablo 3 is super grating on me now, especially when they design the game where you need to do the whole thing 4 times per character. Even getting through Hell on all classes means you have listened to the same drivel for 15 play throughs. I can't reach for my esc key fast enough. And some of the mindless chatter from followers can't be skipped.
 
Gez said:
True, i think its mostly acceptable in an RPG as its all about story. But you have to look at FF13 as a prime example of way too much cutscene.
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I disagree, the cutscenes in FFXIII were mostly very brief and concise.
The problem with FFXIII was the map design which made the game too linear and story focused, the same amount of cutscenes with a more open environment and nonlinear gameplay would be the perfect balance

I think what we should be discussing more is linearity in modern gaming, that's the big issue, not so much cutscenes
 
I don't mind custcenes, it's the ultra linearity that bothers me. Well I do hate when games overload you with cutscenes like in Max Payne 3. You can't do anything in that game without a cutscene happening right after.
 
BlazingDarkness said:
I actually enjoy playing a game through the eyes of a character and that characters own story and being immersed in their world, moreso than any number of bland nameless, wordless make-your-own story kind of heroes
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I will use Dues Ex and another example then. The only time 'control' is taken away from the player is during conversations and the ending cutscenes. Not every character needs to be a voiceless/nameless nobody.

Imagine if Uncharted had no cut-scenes? I think set pieces are fine as long as they move along the story where it's not possible to do so within the physics of the game. Over reliance on them like cutscenes is a problem (see COD).
 
I've played game that do both well, but prefer it when a game doesn't stop, slow, or restrict my abilities to tell me a story. If the game has to stop me, at least give a good reason why. That's something the Portal games and Bioshock do well.

I'm fine with cutscenes too. I feel like the way for cutscenes to work is to bookmark a section of game without interrupting. But most of all, make it all skippable.

Actually, this is an odd example, but a game I recently played that got on my nerves is Ghost Trick. Probably my expectations getting the best of me. I went in thinking it'd be a puzzle/adventure style game, and what I got was more like Heavy Rain; the focus seemed to be telling the story.

James Woods said:
I'd like cutscenes back please. After playing Crysis 2 and Syndicate this year I am sick of "first-person" storytelling. That shit is awful and forced now.
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What stood out to me most in the Crysis 3 E3 footage was the "press to skip" prompt that appeared during those sequences. Inability to skip those embedded cinematic sequences is why I somewhat preferred cutscenes; most of those can be skipped.
 
zruben said:
I can't enjoy GTA4 for the same reason, I can't past the first missions because too many cutscenes and tutorials bores me to death.
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It appears that after the first 30 min or so the game uses a lot smarter method of story telling that lets you drive while characters are talking, but man if it didn't start off with a bad impression.
 
Good storytellers find a balance between advancing the plot with cutscenes and throwing stuff at you via the in-game world.
 
i don't like cutscenes and i don't like half life 2 style "wait around while watching other people talk". I want game designers to make the player interact with the story without resorting to cutscenes or qtes.

edit: that's the reason im not buying mp3
 
A game should have exactly as many cutscenes as it needs.

I've played a million games that had far too many cutscenes, but I've also played a few that I think could've used more.

In general, I think cutscenes should be used only when necessary, and should stay below one minute in length.
 
Shahed1987 said:
FFXIII's problem was pretty much that 2010 diagram you posted. Cutscene>Walk a bit> Cutscene. It get's jarring. If it was the normal cutscene at the beginning and end with none in between, it would've been okay.
Click to expand...

FFXIII featured about the same amount of dialogue as any other FF, the difference is that now every dialogue is a voiced cutscene rather than text boxes. The problem was the design of the game and the corridor levels, not really the cut scenes, they were mostly short and not more than in older games.
 
Kojima needs to be publicly whipped for the disease he infected games with.

Like TB mentioned, the rules and tools for storytelling are different in games than in other media. Forcing things in from outside media offers little for the game. The question always tends to be, "Why is this a game"? As in, what does it gain from being a game? Sometimes, unfortunately, the answer is "because gamers have lower standards". Yet not all gamers have such low standards.

If you want to tell a story in a game, look back at the past of games. Look way back, to the bit wars and before 3d. Look even at the way you and your friends would make up rules for a game when you're bored. If you don't understand or love the medium then your story will suffer for it. When I see that Max Payne 3 is constantly shifting into cutscenes, I see a game that is ashamed of being a game.
 
I've never been a huge fan of cutscenes, I prefer games that can tell the story more naturally.

But if you do include it, make sure it is skippable, and doesn't go on too long.

And a minor pet peeve of mine, but don't allow the characters to do amazing feats that I'd never be able to replicate when actually playing.
 
Cut scenes can and have been done well, but overall I honestly don't think they add to much to the actual game experience.

When done well, Max Payne 3 actually being one example, they definitely add more to the overall product, but in my opinion they separate the gameplay and the story. When I'm engaging in gameplay, I'm not thinking about the story as my motivation at all, I'm just thinking about shooting stuff. When I'm watching cut scenes, I don't feel like what I did in the gameplay has any effect on it. It's like I'm enjoying two different pieces of entertainment, and I think this medium can do better than that, and already has.

From a mechanical standpoint overall I'm starting to prefer the style of storytelling employed by most western RPGs - dialog systems integrated as a part of the gameplay. Bethesda's games in particular I think do an excellent job of making the whole experience feel like a consistent whole, so you don't think about the "gameplay" and "story" as separate elements. Just a few days ago in the middle of Fallout New Vegas I actually spent considerable time deciding what I was going to do in the game from a story standpoint not only because I was interested in the story, but because what I did had a tangible effect on the game world. All of these games might not tell stories particularly well, but I think their storytelling mechanics are perfectly sound and make the story feel like a more important part of the game.
 
mysticwhip said:
never played it, how does it handle storytelling?
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Lots of dialogue, no cutscenes. Most of the time you can actually control your character during conversations and quite alot of them happen during active events like battles etc...

The more deep and detailed TES lore is entirely optional and can be learned by collecting and reading books. The game has ALOT of these books.

But really, its the way they do it. It never feels like it drags or that the game took control, at least to me.
 
I love cutscenes. I grew up with them being a reward for your progress in the game. If they're well done, they can be just as important to me than the gameplay itself. An example for that are the early Command & Conquer games. The game itself was great, but when I first played it, it was also a means to get to the next awesome FMV cutscene.

I remember when the CD medium was introduced on PC. That was the rise of the FMV and I loved how cutting edge it was. I enjoyed playing all of the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective games, they also had the FMV/reward mechanic.
On consoles some of the cutscenes were amazingly well done and they seemed so far ahead of their time, like in the Final Fantasy games on Playstation. They looked so much better than the graphics themselves, so they also had that reward element in addition to advancing the story.

I don't like to play just for score or character level. That rarely motivates me and it's probably one of the main reasons why I don't like multiplayer.
 
No cutscene is preferable. Never take control out of the player's hands.

If there must be a cutscene make it short and make sure there are no QTEs.

Games should not need 5 minute cutscenes to flesh out the game universe. Show us, don't tell us.

Also, let us start out the game with gameplay. Cutscenes at intervals aren't all bad unless they come at the wring time. They need to be spaced out well enough and not overstay their welcome.
 
Can you people imagine Blizzard games without the campaign opening and ending cutscenes?
I love their CG.
 
Cutscenes have their place, but the penchant for "cinematic storytelling" in recent years has seen them grossly overused to the point where some games (hello, Max Payne 3!) see the gameplay exist interstitially rather than as the core element.

Haunted said:
Wow, that just might be the most egregious cutscene:gameplay ratio I've seen this side of one of Kojima's wannabe-movie-trainwrecks.
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It really is ridiculous, and the entire game is like that -- at no point do you play for more than 10-15 minutes at a time (excluding retries, obviously).
 
I like games with many cutscenes and I like games with none or relatively few cutscenes. I think there's definitely room for both, but it's easy to see why people are annoyed with how prominent they are now in the big blockbuster games.
 
When you think about it though, most WRPGs are basically borrowing the mechanics of adventure games, which I think get really shortchanged in discussions about game storytelling. A great recent example of a cut scene-less game where the story actually matters is Ace Attorney.
 
I prefer a cutscene with most games, especially if very heavy story driven. Skippable of course.

Games like Star Fox or any kind of short replay value driven title I'd rather have all story points made mid-gameplay.
 
I like cutscenes as bookends. It makes sense to tell the story in cutscenes for certain genres and in others, it makes sense to use the game world instead. The important thing is that it should always be skippable, cutscene or not (like UC3 desert).
 
Cut-scenes are the equivalent of voice over in movies: an inelegant way of providing exposition that doesn't make use of the strengths of the medium.

They have their use, but they shouldn't be a crutch.
 
Make it a cutscene if you want to present the story in a way you couldn't convey through the normal game (or if it's supposed to look extra pretty). But there's two things you should never do: QTEs and some stupid guy telling you everything through radio.
 
MYE said:
Lots of dialogue, no cutscenes. Most of the time you can actually control your character during conversations and quite alot of them happen during active events like battles etc...

The more deep and detailed TES lore is entirely optional and can be learned by collecting and reading books. The game has ALOT of these books.

But really, its the way they do it. It never feels like it drags or that the game took control, at least to me.
Click to expand...
That sounds good for the type of games that TES series is. I wonder how they'd give players that type of control in a game like Uncharted or Ma Payne 3 without resorting to cutscenes?
 
If all video games were as good as DOOM and as short on story people would stop buying games because they already had enough fun for ten lifetimes.

The cutscene to gameplay ratio has dove off the deepend into offensive this generation. Older games heavy in cutscenes had the decency to shut up for hours at a time.
 
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